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Forum What do you think of Cell and Frieza when they appeared in the Super 17 Saga?

Once Goku goes to Hell, he meets up with his two enemies for the first time since the Great Saiyaman Saga with Pikkon. Cell and Frieza approach Goku with some memorable lines that make the next episode seem like it would be one of the best in all of GT. Goku ends the episode by saying how he was learned some new tricks. Then he takes a fighting stance, and like any fan at home I thought that The Resurrection of Cell and Frieza was going to introduce us to new techniques and show us how strong the two have gotten over the years. Man was I wrong! This episode really bites the big one for multiple reasons. The animation was ridiculous compared to the episode before it A Dangerous Union. It’s funny how some episodes that are filler have better animation than episodes that really involve action. This episode made a complete mockery out of two of the once most feared beings in the universe. Goku easily beating Super Perfect Cell as a normal form kid implies that he is equal to or stronger than SS2 Gohan from the Cell Games, but Frieza’s defeat was something that I expected. The voices for the two villains made the episode even more despicable. Especially when Cell uses the Kamehameha Wave, it just made the once feared android a ridiculous sounding weakling. This episode makes several reappearances of elements for DBZ and DB.

Goku riding the Destructo Disk=his Nimbus Cloud in DB

Goku takes one of the spikes and spins it around quickly, deflects Cell’s Kamehameha, and catches one of Frieza’s Destructo Disks=his DB Power Pole

Cell’s use of the Kamehameha, Special Beam Cannon, Solar Flare, Absorbtion (never in Perfect Form in Z) =his ability to use the techniques of the fighters that his cells are created from

Frieza using the Destructo Disk=the ones that he uses in Z (However, in Z he had his own variation to the technique) he uses the Disks that are used by Krillin this is heard when he calls out the attack, and has the same yellow color as Krillin’s. Frieza adds in the traits that his disks can perform, he can make the disks follow their targets as shown when he believes that Goku would be sliced in two as one of the disks come up from behind.

Cell’s upper body being blasted off by a Kamehameha Wave, but then he regenerated=Goku’s Warp Kamehameha blasting Cell and then he quickly regenerated

Frieza being bisected by his own Destructo Disk and cut into pieces=His pursuit attack on Goku on Namek also a variation of the Destructo Disk that spilt cut him into pieces

The Almighty Light Cage seemed like a cool technique, but there was no background as to how Hell had changed so much in-between Z and GT. Like the blood pond, the color of the background, how the villains found out about the bottom of Hell being ice, and the story behind the old woman with the torture treatments. However, this is just one of the many reasons that GT has so many plot holes that make it impossible to comprehend or compare it to the other two series. I wanted Goku to show off some of his new SS3 or SS4 powers. To Cell and Frieza, SS3 was not new because they saw the fight with Kid Buu. Goku was probably unaware of this anyhow. SS4 would have been so much cooler because it would have been priceless to see the expressions on their faces. They would have been shocked to see how Goku could go from a child to an adult in such an instant, and not to mention the huge power level increase brought on by the transformation. This would have made the battle so much more interesting. Goku probably would have let the two pull out all of the stops. They would have unleashed so many techniques, but of course they would not have done any damage at all. Despite that SS4 could finish them off in an instant that would have made the episode so much more interesting. One of the only elements that made the episode priceless was when Cell absorbed Goku. I thought that this could be a danger to the entire universe. Here we have a Super Perfect Android + the powers of a SS4=a being more powerful than the new Super 17. I was thinking that Cell was going to prove Dr. Gero wrong as he earlier mentioned to Myuu that Super 17 would have a power that far exceeds Cell’s. That could have led to a confrontation between the two androids that would have made GT a series to remember. But what happens instead? Goku pops back out like nothing happened! It really grinds my gears (not meant to be a pun from Family Guy) that one of Cell’s most deadly abilities is made into a joke. To be honest, I thought that Gohan and Trunks should have gone to fight the two in Hell instead. Gohan was the one to kill Cell, and Trunks was the one that killed Frieza (actually it was Future Trunks, but I don’t think that Frieza would even notice or care). Then the two being frozen in their own trap and shattered was something that made their defeat even more shameful. The next episode shows some ogres carrying them off in chains in a cage, and this just makes them seem even more pathetic. The writers could have at least given them some threatening lines to deliver to Goku and the ogres. Instead they just look up at Goku for a second, and then the show goes back to Goku and Piccolo. This is the last time that they are seen again, unless you count the multiple flashbacks that come in the next saga.

Anyone care to add on to this subject?Vegetaisthebest 05:52, December 12, 2009 (UTC)

I though that Cell would have absorbed both Goku & Frieza,thus clearly surpassing Super 17 & probably killing all the shadow dragons including Syn Shenron. However,if they would have fought against against Gohan & Trunks, they would have killed them.By the way, what are the flashbacks you are talking of?--Ucell

to ucell

Really back when the Super 17 saga first came out in the early 2000’s I bought the VHS versions. When Gero said; “he will have strength that would far exceed that of Cell!” I was kinda sore from hearing that because personally Cell is my favorite of the 3 DBZ villains. I would have thought that Cell would have been offended by this because his creator was creating something that would surpass him the most “perfect” fighting weapon. I too thought that he would absorb Frieza along with Goku. When I first watched their battle I was disappointed because Goku did not use any techniques besides just toying around with the two. When he got absorbed I thought that Cell only had access to his normal kid form, but I was a lot younger back then and I forgot that once Cell absorbs you regardless of form he has access to all of Goku’s powers including SS4! That combined with the cunning mind of Frieza (if he fully absorbed him as well) would have been more than a match for Super 17. In my opinion, he was the weakest of the DBGT 3 main villains (Baby Vegeta, Super 17, Omega Shenron or Syn either one was more powerful than the other 2). It wasn’t until he began absorbed ki attacks did he really become a threat. I thought that Cell would challenge the new 17 and possibly absorb him as well if he saw fit. This was demonstrated in BT 1 in a what-if where the two fought to see who would kill Goku. Yeah, I think that absorbing Goku and Frieza, Cell would be able to kill Syn. If Goten and Trunks fought Frieza they would win one-on-one, but not Cell because neither of them even reached SS2. To be honest I don’t think that the two in GT could match the powers of the Ascended/Ultra/Full Power SSs seen in the Cell Sagas. The only way I could see the two winning against Super Perfect Cell (as seen in Cell Games or Super 17 Saga) would be to fuse into Gotenks. That’s my opinion on the matter. I really wanted Trunks and Gohan to fight the two because they were the ones that killed them anyway (Future Trunks did the job not present Trunks). The flashbacks were from when the Black Smoke Dragon appears and they think about wishes made on the Dragonballs and Frieza is shown, at the end of the series there is the long line of events that occurred in the series, Frieza is shown killing Krillin and Goku goes SS for the first time, then they show the beam struggle between Cell/Gohan and Cell is killed. Those are the flashbacks that I am referring to.------Vegetaisthebest208.95.51.134 17:25, March 25, 2010 (UTC)