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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Dragon Ball Wiki:Manual of Style page.

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Archive 1 2008 - 2017

"Battle of Gods" and "Ressurrection 'F'" in Articles

I noticed while looking at the article for Vegeta that the events of Battle of Gods and Resurrection ‘F’ are listed after Dragon Ball GT. Shouldn't they be included in the Movies section in articles instead? Diamonddeath (talk) 07:34, May 26, 2016 (UTC)

Yes, fixed. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 03:37, May 29, 2016 (UTC)

Movie Section and Transition to Arcs

Can we remove the movie section and combine with with the "Biography" section. This wiki doesn't use canon so why separate the movies from the series? I think the "Film appearances" section is useless and can cause confusion. With combining the movie section with the biography section, it could be easier than what it is now. I know some movies happen within some arcs like Dragon Ball Z: The Rebirth of Fusion! Goku and Vegeta so it would be hard now with the the sections are. But another mistake I did months ago was remove the subsections from arc. While I was on the One Piece Wiki, I've learned that those sections are needed especially or longer pages like Goku's page. I also think we should readd subsections and also, transition from saga to arcs. With the movie section, arcs would be better to use than the sagas Funimation created for Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, and Dragon Ball GT because Funimation created more sagas than they should have when promoting these shows. I hope you agree and please, discuss this. Meshack (talk) 10:11, September 20, 2016 (UTC)

Sagas and arcs can be used interchangeably, but we use sagas since that is what Dragon Ball uses. One Piece having arcs does not matter for us. We separate info by media type for convenience, which makes sense except for manga/anime where the material is largely the same. Video games, card games, movies, and other one-offs have their own stories and therefore do not make sense to merge with the manga/anime as you suggest. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 02:24, September 21, 2016 (UTC)
I don't see why not. I was only referring to the movies and then you go and mention others I didn't even mention. It shouldn't matter if the stories are different. Dragon Ball does not use sagas. This wiki just chooses to do whatever Funimation does and use sagas rather than arcs. they're not used interchangeably 02:30, September 21, 2016 (UTC)
the movies should just be in the movie sections and spearated from the sagas. Nikon23 03:03, September 21, 2016 (UTC)

Your justification for merging the movies into the anime is our MoS' stance on canon. This applies to all media; there is nothing special about the movies based on your suggestion. Also. FUNimation is the official, licensed English translation of the Dragon Ball anime, so it makes sense we would use their terminology. Your alternative of using One Piece terms rather than Dragon Ball terms does not make sense when we have the ideal basis already. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 03:17, September 21, 2016 (UTC)

10X, what are you talking about? The terminology is not correct. It doesn't matter if Funimation has the legal rights to the series. Sagas are long events while arcs are shorter ones. The Artificial Humans Arc is not a long event but rather short because the Cell Arc happens right during the end. I don't get why you're so hung up on Funimation but even they get translations wrong even know they "official" Meshack (talk) 18:19, September 25, 2016 (UTC)

The argument for Funimation is they are official, licensed, and correct. Your argument against them is... well nothing, just you asking us to change it. We will not go against the official, licensed, correct terminology based on nothing. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 02:02, September 26, 2016 (UTC)

Other Dragon Ball stories section

As it stands at the moment The Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans and The Real 4-D are listed under several characters movie appearences. However they are not movies. On this wikis movie page, they are not listed as movies. One is an OVA and the other is an attraction (which it says on the main page). So it doesn't make sense for them to be listed in movie appearences if they aren't acknowledged as being movies.

At the same time there's not much consistency between character pages. Some characters will have some kind of combination of the following sections "Other Dragon Ball manga", "Video Game stories", "OVA's", "Dragon Ball Heroes", "Other Dragon Ball appearances". Some of the actual video game stories will just be in the video game section.

So what I suggest is just making the one section titled "Other Dragon Ball stories" where all these things can go. From what they did in The Real 4D to Xenoverse to Dragon Ball Heroes to Nekomajin and so on. It could all just be grouped up neatly and consistently in multiple sub sections under the one section rather than having multiple ones which are there or not there on other character pages.

At the moment that's how it looks for Future Trunks page, so you can view that as an example of what I think all character pages should be like. Bullza (talk) 21:30, September 28, 2016 (UTC)

I don't think any of our pages use an OVA section, we've always grouped specials and OVAs into the Film appearances section. The video game stories section is uniquely for Video games with original stories, so non-original material is placed into the Video game appearances section.--Neffyarious (talk) 12:23, September 29, 2016 (UTC)

But why are the specials and OVA's grouped in with the films if they aren't considered films? The Real 4D is just a ride attraction but that's counted in with the films but then say the Dream 9 anime special is not.

Goku's page includes a "Other Dragon Ball manga" section and a "Video Game stories" section which includes what he did in Xenoverse. However on Vegeta's page he does not have a Video Game stories section. Piccolo had neither section and instead had his own "Cross Epoch" section and his story in the Hero Mode for Ultimate Tenkaichi was just in the video game section instead. Future Trunks had his own separate section called "Other appearences" which included what he did in Cross Epoch even though in most other character pages that information is placed in the "Appearences in other media" section.

Frieza has a "Other Dragon Ball manga" section which explains what he did in Nekomajin but then further down the page there's a separate section called "Other appearences" which then mentions again his appearance in Nekomajin and Episode of Bardock which should be in the manga section.

And then there's yet another section for "Other media" even though this section and the "Other Dragon Ball appearences" section should just be combined to make the "Appearences in other media" section as is seen on Goku's page.

So there's just no consistency between these pages at all. Different character pages have different sections including different things from one to the other. Bullza (talk) 21:51, September 29, 2016 (UTC)

I support this, it would make the articles a lot more organized and consistent with each other. I don't really see any cons to implementing this. -- Final ChidoriTalk 23:41, September 29, 2016 (UTC)
I too agree with Bullza. Yakon RenderSandubadearPui Pui Render 02:49, September 30, 2016 (UTC)

Looks good, so I'm down with it. Not sure how we should treat 4-D though - film or other story.--Neffyarious (talk) 10:34, October 3, 2016 (UTC)

It seems we're in agreement then so tomorrow I'll see about sorting some of the pages out and make them consistent.

As for The Real 4D, I don't know what the definition of a "Film" is but it's certainly different from what we know of being actual films. I'd say it was just an OVA, original video animation myself, like say Epiosde of Bardock. It might confuse readers to say it's another film when it's advertised as an attraction.

When I sort it out I'll put it in the other stories for the time being. If at a later date someone feels differently then they can just copy and paste it into the film appearences section.Bullza (talk) 17:39, October 3, 2016 (UTC)

New Saga Infobox

In the manga volumes and manga chapters part of the new infoboxes should we use the original numbers, the English ones, or both? Or we could do like the Vegeta Saga manga chapters section. Any of these that way it is easier for the readers.  Goku20  Talk  ULTRA DBZ  ULTRA POKEMON  20:19,9/29/2016 

This page seems to be going by the usual 1-42 volume and 1-519 chapter setup.

Bullza (talk) 21:53, September 29, 2016 (UTC)

I think it's better to mainly use the original Japanese numbers, and maybe use the DBZ manga numbers in parenthesis. Yakon RenderSandubadearPui Pui Render 02:52, September 30, 2016 (UTC)

I agree with Sandu. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 16:10, October 1, 2016 (UTC)

Abilities tabs idea

So at the moment some of the character pages contain a huge wealth of information surrounding a characters abilities (techniques/forms/fusions). It reached a point where separate pages needed to be made listing a characters techniques and between Super and all the games it's only going to get worse so I thought why not try something like this below as I've seen the idea done on several wikis successfully already.

It would again be a way of making things a bit neater and less cluttered and the techniques on the separate pages could even be brought back to the character page with this method.

As far as I know the tabs don't work with the mobile version but whether the tabs are set or not it doesn't affect the page at all as it's still all listed in order. It'll only really affect the desktop version.

So below is just a rough idea of what it would look like. —This unsigned comment was made by Bullza (talkcontribs) Please sign your posts with ~~~~ next time!

That format was not compatible with mobile. In fact, I had to delete it in source mode just to post. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 00:20, October 6, 2016 (UTC)

What do you mean? I know the option to swap tabs isn't available on mobile but it should still have the same layout on mobile as before.

When I set them on a test page and checked on mobile it looked the same with and without the tabs in place. I've seen several wikia's use this style so it shouldn't mess anything up drastically.Bullza (talk) 07:18, October 6, 2016 (UTC)

Alright so I just used the Sandbox page to recreate Goku's page but with the tabs in place, here's a link

I then used my mobile to do a side by side comparison of Goku's page as it is now and the Sandbox page with the tabs.

As far as I can tell the only difference between the two versions is the size of the words "Techniques", "Forms and transformations" and "Fusions" for the reason being that with the tabs version those words are in bold which makes them slightly smaller than when you use the == signs at either side of the word.

That's it. Otherwise it doesn't affect the mobile version either way while it does change the desktop version. Bullza (talk) 09:03, October 6, 2016 (UTC)

It probably depends on the os and browser. We shouldn't make changes that maybe(?) benefit some but break all the articles for others. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 04:13, October 8, 2016 (UTC)

I checked it on Microsoft Edge, Google Chrome, AOL and Opera and it's the same across each version, it worked fine for each of them.

The mobile version doesn't pick up tabs so it just presents it in the same order as if the tabs aren't there.

What's broken and where?Bullza (talk) 12:43, October 8, 2016 (UTC)

The bottom of the page gets cut off. Why do you believe we need tabs? It seems like clutter and an opportunity for confusion. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 19:22, October 8, 2016 (UTC)

I don't recall seeing anything like that, I'll have to have another look. The tabs would be a good idea because it would make the page LESS cluttered.

Instead of scrolling through multiple sections and a ton of text it'd be as easy as clicking on the Abilities section in the contents and then choosing the tab you need to find the information quickly.

A lot of wikis use the tabs and it works well because there's no load times between tabs. I asked Final Chidori before posting this and he seemd to think it was a good idea because it'd make the pages neater. Bullza (talk) 23:14, October 9, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, if this works across all browsers and it doesn't affect mobile, it would be a pretty handy thing to have on pages with a ton of info. I'm pretty sure it works on monobook as well, I haven't checked any mobile browsers yet though, if it gets cut off then that's a big problem. -- Final ChidoriTalk 23:20, October 9, 2016 (UTC)

It's worked on the three desktop browsers I've tried it on without issue. It has also worked on two mobile browsers too.

I just tested it again on mobile, it worked fine on Chrome. When I tested it on Opera Mini everything after the Popular Culture section was cut off...but not for the page I made up, that worked fine, that happened with the main Goku page as it is now.

When I refreshed the page it loaded properly. The page loads in chunks and it looks like it just stopped loading. That wouldn't be a problem with the tabs, it'd be a problem with the page having to load so much information.

If that's the same issue 10x had then perhaps if he'd refreshed the page it would have worked fine.Bullza (talk) 00:14, October 10, 2016 (UTC)

I had the same issue with Puffin. I don't think it's worth discussing whether a functional tab format in articles has advantages if mobile users can't read articles at all that way. It's a trade of extra scrolls where you see everything, vs. button clicks if you happen to know you have to click at all. There are big disadvantages, too big to roll this out at present. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 00:41, October 10, 2016 (UTC)

But if the mobile version looks exactly same regardless of the tabs being there or not then it shouldn't really be a factor. This is mainly a change for the desktop version.

It's going to be an ever increasing amount of extra scrolls. Just in the past week or two about 10 extra sections have been added to the contents and the page because of all the fusions he had in the new 3DS game.

I don't see where the disadvantage is in just clicking the abilities section in the contents and then clicking the suitable tab. Bullza (talk) 02:09, October 10, 2016 (UTC)

It doesn't look the same; it broke the article for both of us. Please don't implement a feature that breaks the articles. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 00:02, October 11, 2016 (UTC)

It didn't break the page for me. The page was broken for the Goku page that's already up now and it was a loading issue which was fixed when I reloaded the page.

If it was a broken feature then it wouldn't be used on the other wikis. Bullza (talk) 17:03, October 12, 2016 (UTC)


Wikia has recently been rolling out videos for popular pages on popular wikis in order to generate more ad-revenue. Recently, they've started to work on us.

Some of you may have seen the new video on Kale's page. If not, I'd like to ask you do to so now. It's located at the top of the page, and unless Wikia is doing some a/b testing where it only appears for select users, it should be very hard to miss. Opinions?

Personally, I have multiple complaints.

1) It loads slowly.

2) It auto-plays.

3) It follows the reader's screen as they scroll, which is distracting.

4) It's terribly made and adds nothing to the article. The video is literally our article in a slideshow format with videos, still images, and non-Dragon Ball music playing in the background.

5) It's located at the top of the page, pushing down the rest of the article.

6) There appears to be no way to edit it. What would we do if some of the information in the video is found to be wrong later on?

The fact that Wikia believes such a poorly-made video takes priority over the articles that we all made is insulting. They even slapped their "Fandom" logo at the end of it, as if they're the ones who wrote the information. There appears to be no way to remove it, aside from maybe asking a staff member. I'd definitely like to hear the rest of the wiki's thoughts on this before I do that, though. — Final ChidoriTalk 14:43, May 28, 2017 (UTC)

I think the video on Kale's page is okay so far. It's informative and decent, but I can't speak for everyone who'll find the videos very annoying. I kind of don't mind it if it were to be on every article. Gojiran (talk) 15:11, May 28, 2017 (UTC)

My opinion is that it could really hurt the quality of the wiki and slow down your site. It's already bad that there is thousands of images on the site with galleries that include menial images. Every complaint that I would have is shared by Chidori. --New World God 15:33, May 28, 2017 (UTC)

Personally I don't like it too much. I'm part of the administration at the Spanish wiki and we refused but they are going to insert the videos anyways. If someone wants to know how they will implement them check it here: (use Google Translate or something, but it's very important to know how they are going to operate).

Yon!米津愛主!Golden Frieza artVisit my talk page! 17:05, May 28, 2017 (UTC)

I think the first thing to do is ask these questions to Springteufel since they reached out as a contact for us about the new videos. I checked out the Kale article with two browsers. The first didn't show the video. The second dragged it along the top of my window as I scrolled, but didn't auto-play and I could dismiss the box by clicking an x. I share your concern about the info changing over time... keeping the video up-to-date would require someone doing frequent updates, since her character is brand new and the info will definitely change often. It was cool to see some animated clips, especially having Broly power-up as a comparison. This discussion is good feedback for staff, but let's approach this in a helpful way not a confrontational one. They "keep the lights on" so to speak. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 19:53, May 28, 2017 (UTC)

Had a look, I think the videos are super pointless; all the info in the video can simply be found by looking on the page and the video itself was not that great - with spelling errors and incorrect information. The only way I would accept this would be if videos were optional and we were the ones to make them.--Neffyarious (talk) 03:05, May 29, 2017 (UTC)

I don't like them. I'd be okay if the video's quality was better, but it looks like a slideshow made on moviemaker that some grade schooler made. Like come on! Fandom has had way better videos than that. I also agree that it's annoying how they've just taken info from articles our community wrote up and selling it off as Fandom writing them. --Stryzzar (talk) 11:48, June 1, 2017

@Gojiran - That's precisely what I'm worried about. They seem very easy to make, so I wouldn't be surprised if Wikia made a bunch more and started sticking them on our more popular articles. If the Dragon Ball franchise was dead that would be fine, but it's constantly growing and the info will need constant updating which I very much doubt the staff is willing to do.

@NWG - Fantastic point. Some of our articles already load slowly because of the amount of images and text we have on them. Adding a video on top of that does not seem like a good idea.

@YonedgeHP - It's extremely worrying that they're not listening to the community. The staff member in the thread you linked seemed to imply that the community has to approve the video before Wikia sticks it into the article, but as far as I know we were never offered to review it.

@10X - I apologize if I'm coming off as confrontational, I'm just mildly annoyed they put an uneditable, unremovable video on one of our trending articles without telling anyone or asking the community first. If staff members frequently updated every video with new clips and information I'd be a bit more open to the idea of having these, but as of now there's no guarantee they'll do that or even do it correctly. These videos could potentially misinform tons of people who watch them and it would be completely out of the community's control.

@Neffyarious - Fully agree. If we could turn this off I'd be fine with it. These videos could be really cool on some wikis, just not this one.

@Stryzzar - I'm definitely not a fan of the slideshow format either. The sentences cutting off are very annoying as well.

Does anyone else want to share their opinion? So far it seems like most of us either don't care or are in favor of them being removed. We shouldn't approach Wikia until we reach a consensus. — Final ChidoriTalk 20:28, June 1, 2017 (UTC)

I agree they shouldn't be on there for all the reasons already stated and to me it is just looks like a dumb idea.  Goku20  Talk  ULTRA DBZ  ULTRA POKEMON  04:16,6/2/2017 

I think that it's absolutely pointless and a bit pedantic, but from a monetary viewpoint, videos make sense. However, as they currently stand there are a lot of pitfalls. I think the best course of action from staff would be to have the videos be created by users. Now, I realixe everyone isn't a video editing savant, but if every video were to follow a simple template then all you'd have to do is plug info and pictures in to the slideshow. I don't think every user should have this power, perhaps only admins or appointed video editors should be able to change the video content, but I could see the videos going from a detriment to a neutral force fairly easily. 220px-Hell gate janembaJanembaFreak97 04:45, June 2, 2017 (UTC)

I would compare it to Gif pictures as those videos there could slow down the loading of the articles for users/readers to look at. IMO, it should go. --0551E80Y (talk) 04:57, June 2, 2017 (UTC)

Hi all, sorry for the delay in replying here. I know you've been waiting for a response for awhile. To address the major concerns raised here:
  • Speed. That will depend on the user's connection, of course, as will any video player online. In the time since you've posted these concerns, however, we've also significantly reduced the number of advertisements on pages that have featured Wiki Videos on them. That improves the overall page load speed and has helped with the loading of the video player, since overall there are less items to load on the page.
  • Auto-play. Yes, the auto-play (without auto-sound) factor is what has allowed us to achieve one of the main goals of Wiki Modernization: ad reduction. Without auto-play, which includes valuable auto-playing pre-roll ads in front of the videos, we would not be able to reduce the number of ads across the site. We have already rolled out reduced advertising on pages with Wiki Videos, and will soon be rolling out reduced advertising on non-Wiki Video pages. That improves overall page performance on all FANDOM wikis.
  • Scrolling player. This has become standard practice online so users can watch a video and read at the same time. This gives users more choices for how they want to consume content. As part of that, you can dismiss the scrolling video at any time.
  • Location. We tested several different placements, big and small, at different parts of the page. This is the version that readers engaged with the most and thus is the one we moved ahead with. This was the first thing we tested before moving ahead with further development of Wiki Videos, to ensure we knew what the best placement for them was.
  • Editing. If there's incorrect information, you can email us and we will fix it. We don't want information to be incorrect either.
In regards to the video on the Kale page, I agree that it's not of sufficient quality. That video was made very early in our video creation process, before the creation of the Wiki Video team (which I lead), using a third party software that we no longer utilize for Wiki Videos. We can replace that video in the future, and future Dragonball videos will be of higher quality. You can see our two latest Dragonball videos, which just went live, on Caulifla and Tournament of Power.
I hope this has helped address some of your concerns. If you have any additional feedback for these Wiki Videos, the best method for contacting me (since I won't get an alert on this page) is via email at Special:Contact. Thanks! - Brandon Rhea@fandom(talk) 18:42, July 18, 2017 (UTC)

DBS "In the anime/in the manga" subheadings

Alright, posting here as requested. So with Dragon Ball Super, the anime and manga versions are vastly different compared to DB and DBZ, to the point where quite often two different versions need to be listed on articles. This has resulted in a lot of repetitive "In the anime... [this happened]" while the same event of the manga version has another section for "In the manga..." Overall resulting in "in the anime" and "in the manga" being repeated on an article several times.

What I'm proposing is to split up the anime and manga sections into two, rather than listing the same phrases over and over, like so:

===Dragon Ball Super===
====Future Trunks Saga====


It looks neater and honestly easier to read since readers won't have to jump back and forth between anime and manga storylines when reading the article. I understand there would be a fair bit of clean up required for this, so at this point would just want some feedback. --Stryzzar (talk) 04:04, June 21, 2017

Like I said, someone is already working on something better. But, it will be a good temporary fix until said project is done. SuperBen 1000000 (talk) 04:11, June 21, 2017 (UTC)

Sorry I didn't realize someone had already been doing this. --Stryzzar (talk) 04:25, June 21, 2017 (UTC)

Hello, I am here to discuss an issue that this wiki doesn't deal with properly, the differenciation of two different, long material. The differences in the Anime and Manga are examples of that, and I have and idea.....well, it's not really my idea. A few months ago, I found this project in this wiki; a work in progress, that had the Goku page, but had those slide thingies similar to what Arrowverse Wiki does with their personality sections. They divide them based on the different sections that are not nessessary to take up too much space, and compresses it down to sections, one displaying and others not. Click one of them and it pops up the information from the one of the ones hidden, allowing more organization and less space taken up, making it more attractive. Whoever is making this project, not to look like I'm impatient, but if you coincidentally come up here and look at what I'm saying, tell me: How's it going with it? Are you finished, or is it still needing work? Because whatever you're doing can change a lot of things for the better in this wiki and thank you.</p>

SuperBen 1000000 (talk)

Oh okay, the slider coding thing. Yes I've seen that before. I guess that'll work. --Stryzzar (talk) 04:24, June 21, 2017 (UTC)

Please refer to the section above. — Final ChidoriTalk 22:12, June 21, 2017 (UTC)

Please read Archive 1 sections 60 and 62 to brush up on a few reasons why this suggestion is a bad idea. TLDR: all the articles get 3 times as long with most of the info being redundant. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 03:20, June 23, 2017 (UTC)

  • Yeah, well you tell that to the people who think that we don't explain anything as much as we should, or create unnessessary pages just for the sake of making pages. Seriously, the whole thing in the Future Trunks Saga is all inconsistant, all unorganized, and the anime info is wayyyyyy longer than the manga's. If we use the sliders, then we would shorten info to an extent, and if we can tell people to stop adding reduntant info when we get this out, maybe that would help a little. But yeah, it would change a lot because we explain everything too little on some areas, and is now unorganized. I know this is a wiki, which technically means "short" but seriously, a lot of wikis break that rule and have a lot of info and they are doing just fine. But I doubt it would get to that. Though, like some people it's better to overpack than to underpack. SuperBen 1000000 (talk) 04:10, June 23, 2017 (UTC)

I don't think it's comparable to before, I can understand not having both the movie and anime version because theyre both very much the same. Even for the Universe 6 saga version of the anime and manga, it's largely the same. That's not true at all for the anime and manga though anymore, they are completely different altogether. There are entire events that are in one version and not the other and it's making it a mess to just say "in the manga version" and then have a whole paragraph of an explanation over and over again. It's already making the page long as it is but it just looks like a complete mess.Bullza (talk) 17:05, June 23, 2017 (UTC)

I'm having trouble making coherent sense of what you're implying here. You know it's short, but it's not enough now, or maybe too much, so let's triple everything and make it longer and hide some? And you know it's bad but some other people do a bad job so we should too? Anime and manga have always had differences, Super is not unique. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 01:05, June 24, 2017 (UTC)
No, that's what I'm saying. I'm saying that everything is unorganized, the manga stuff from the Future Trunks Saga is too short, the anime stuff is dominating the manga stuff on info, and everything is unorganized. Some wikis are successful using other, what you would call, "redundant" approaches. Wikis nowadays aren't really short nowadays, some words are used differently in other Countries or states, Hawaii is no exception. The reaon why I put "......a lot of wikis break that rule and have a lot of info and they are doing just fine." was because I wanted to state some evidence that you don't have to worry about that. And like I said before, I doubt that would happen. And if it does, we do need a lot of info anyway for the manga, and having reduntant info is something we have to see for ourselves later.......And DB Super might not be unique to you, but it's difference between the anime and manga is significant enough for us to put "In the anime..." and "In the manga....." and it's starting to become a problem. We need a solution or else things will get worse. SuperBen 1000000 (talk) 01:46, June 24, 2017 (UTC)

Read the MoS. No one should be putting "in the anime" or "in the manga", they should be using reference notes which don't take up much space at all. I completely reject your desire to make articles as long as possible and ignore Wikia's mission statement. We are a Wiki, we should act like it. Your argument that there are bad Wikis so we should give up too is invalid. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 01:59, June 24, 2017 (UTC)

Good point, though, you should tell that to everybody else. SuperBen 1000000 (talk) 02:01, June 24, 2017 (UTC)

Everyone has been told. After making 1 edit here, an automated message is left on each new user's talk page telling them to read the Manual of Style, and to ask an admin (it defaults to whichever admin edited most recently) for help if they need it. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 02:03, June 24, 2017 (UTC)

I'll try and simplify it. The manga and anime have differences, correct. For Super the manga and anime also have differences however up to the Universe 6 saga the differences were negligible so it wasn't a problem to leave an extra line or two to specify the difference.

That is no longer the case at all though with the Future Trunks saga. The manga is completely different from the anime entirely. It's now that different that a couple extra lines just doesn't cut it, a separate section for the manga version is warranted. This is where the tabbers come into it because you could switch between the anime and manga version in the biography.

I didn't say anything about other people. It's not an issue that other similar wikis would have. This is just a way to make things neater, simpler, less repetitive and more detailed which should be a good thing.Bullza (talk) 02:14, June 24, 2017 (UTC)

You're suggesting more buttons a user needs to click, more text they need to read, and having 95% repeated info in successive article sections. Your proposal, which again has already been exhaustively discussed in this article's archive, would make the articles messier, more complicated and harder to use, and completely repetitive. Those are all bad things. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 02:19, June 25, 2017 (UTC)


I think we should start classifying Dragon Ball canon by continuities, because with the various continuity errors and constant reclassification of what's canon and what's not every time something new is released is ridiculous. It could be handled the way Yugioh Wiki handles the various continuities, or at least make tabs for conflicting information. Here's some examples of how I envision the article option:

Goku (Manga) would cover Goku's appearances in manga versions of DB, DBZ and DBS, as well as information that applies only to Goku in the Manga.

Goku (Anime) would cover the Goku that appeared in Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, and Dragon Ball GT Animes, as well as information that only applies to this version of Goku.

Goku (Super) would cover the Goku that appeared in Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z Kai, and Dragon Ball Super Animes, as well as information that only applies to this version of Goku.

And so on and so forth. If anyone has any suggestions or better ideas, go ahead, i'm just spitballing here. TheAwesomeHyperon (talk) 16:27, July 8, 2017 (UTC)

So we would have to create an entire different page for GT's Goku for example? No, please no. Yon!米津愛主!Golden Frieza artVisit my talk page! 20:46, July 8, 2017 (UTC)

Didn't this idea come up in a forum somewhere? Ohhhhh yes it has. And now, I'm going to say what I said in there: NO...... F**K NO! Seriously, if we are doing pages for the same people based on timelines, then we should have one for the movies too, because those are also conflicting, and video games. So we're going to have like Beerus (Movie) and Beerus (Anime) that's going to be EXACTLY THE SAME!!!!! Except Beerus (Movie) is going to have a lot less info that is already covered in his anime page. And lemme guess, we're going to create one for Goku's other alternate timeline counterparts or cover Future Trunks/Xeno Trunks in Video Games that has info again, ALREADY STATED IN THE ANIME PAGE!!!!! As you may see, this wiki has problems with having pages that are unnessessary, or don't cover as much as they should. This would make the problem worse. We had better ideas, PLEASE OH PLEASE REFER TO THE D**M SECTION RIGHT ABOVE YOURS!!!!!!! SuperBen 1000000 (talk) 21:49, July 8, 2017 (UTC)

I agree with what you said at the last sentence, the English DB Wiki has a lot of unnecessary pages with only 2 lines of text, or articles of unnamed future characters from the tournament, not only that, but people in this wiki has a bad habit of creating an article without information (no actual information, no template, no categories, no images, no reference, just a bit of text), so in the next hours/days, people put more information, but the author of the article didn't do antything. ( see this as an example of what I'm saying). I'm part of the administration at the Spanish wiki and when someone do something like this we delete the page, and if people does it in repeated occasions we block them. Yon!米津愛主!Golden Frieza artVisit my talk page! 21:59, July 8, 2017 (UTC)

"constant reclassification of what's canon and what's not every time something new is released..." Well I can tell from this that not only are you unfamiliar with this site and our articles, but you have not even read the MoS which you are currently editing the talk page of. Newcomers are always welcome, but please at least familiarize yourself with a Wiki before proposing changes. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 00:44, July 15, 2017 (UTC)

Considering erasure and death as different things

Hello there!

As you know, in the dragon ball Universe, a killed character goes to the afterworld of his Universe. Does death are rightly recorded with the corresponding death of the character's page

But in Dragon Ball Super, a new concept of erasure as been introduced. Those destroyed by destruction energy or erased by Zeno don't go to the after world. They cease to exist. So they are not dead by dragon ball standards, it's different.

Should we categorize the victims of Hakai and Erasure has "ceased to exist" instead of dead? If so, should we not change "date of death" for them as "date of erasure"?

Blastheaven (talk) 15:00, July 9, 2017 (UTC)

I agree with Zen-Oh's Erase technique, but Hakai I'm a little skeptical about. Being erased, and being killed has always been consider two separate things in almost all forms of fiction.--Made up Character Wiki Admin Jack Jackson Things I do [mod] 02:11, July 10, 2017 (UTC)

Well, even if we are not sure about hakai killing or erased, at least categorize those who are erased for sure at 100%, that's what i propose -- Blastheaven (talk) 13:37, July 14, 2017 (UTC)

Will we consider this the same as when a dead person (halo) is killed? -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 00:46, July 15, 2017 (UTC)
Well... I think yes. Their spirit cease to exist, so it would be a logical thing. As far as we know, there is no  "other other" world Blastheaven (talk) 22:32, July 18, 2017 (UTC)
I think what we have is ok. Because it is considered the same thing. Death will always be death, no matter in what shape or form. That, or we can change it and put a status instead. SuperBen 1000000 (talk) 22:35, July 18, 2017 (UTC)
In any other anime or manga, i would agree with you. But in Dragon Ball, when a character is "just" dead, he can be revived any time, and even visited by some living characters. In short, being kill in dragon ball is just being sent to the character's universe otherworld. But being erased is like true death, the character doesn't exist anywere anymore. Blastheaven (talk) 15:37, July 20, 2017 (UTC)
Oh, and something we should not forgot! Dead characters from erased universes are technically erased too, because when a universe get erased by Zen-Oh, so does this universe's other world. So technically, all characters from future Trunk's timeline, except for Trunks and Mai, have been erased by Zen-Oh. Blastheaven (talk) 11:52, July 30, 2017 (UTC)

Updating the Character Infoboxes

Bringing this here on Neffaryious' suggestion. The character Infoboxes that we have now are not so great, it's a bit of a mess and just a long sheet of white.

I took a look on other wikia's and they generally have better character Infoboxes. I just think the one we have is just kinda old and plain now so it could use sprucing up while some other things are being updated too.

This is one that I think looks pretty good, well presented and easy to read. I made a similar one as an example which you could look at here.

Certainly not finished because I'd like to change the colours up on it, the dark blue and grey is kinda ugly, a brighter orange would be more visually striking I think.

I also think having the Affiliations just include relatives would be far better. As it stands now people are including relatives, friends, mentors, bosses, fusees, future counterpart parts, team mates etc and it's a little unnecessary.Bullza (talk) 17:20, July 31, 2017 (UTC)

Please make an effort to check new Wiki formatting concepts on multiple browsers and Wikia views. For example on Fairy Tale Wiki, my desktop browser using Monobook shows their infobox as white text on a white background. It's unreadable. Black text on white background is the easiest to read. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 03:03, August 1, 2017 (UTC)

Well I hadn't checked other formats yet. This was just to garner a reaction and see if people were willing to make the update at all first. If it was agreed upon we'd make sure it all worked just fine across all formats, naturally.

Fixing the colors for the text wouldn't be a problem, for the Fairy Tail wiki it was the design itself that I was pointing out. It's better presented because it's more easily divided into sections with just straight to the point information.Bullza (talk) 10:57, August 1, 2017 (UTC)

Looks almost exactly the same to me, except you removed the relatives. Could you provide a screenshot of what you're seeing before and after so we can see why you like it better? -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 03:14, August 2, 2017 (UTC)

Well I can't screenshot the whole thing because the infobox is longer than the screen can capture but this is what Natsu's character infobox looks on the Desktop version.

It has the section headers so it's more easily divided under sections like Names, Affiliations, Debuts etc. It has the solid red colours for the sections too but yeah it does have the white text there.


That's the mockup that I made as an example which has similar section headers. You can't see it on that screenshot but I replaced Affiliations with Relatives because like I said people are adding too much there now, over time people have added fusee's and teammates and more.

Like the Natsu one I had a section for debuts where it included his manga/anime/film and game debuts.

The section headers are a pale grey colour though and I don't know how to change that but I'd like to make it an orange colour like how Natsu's is red except have the black text so it remained readable on mobile versions.


And that's what we have now, it's just pretty plain because it's probably not been changed in so long. There's no section headers either. So yeah I think it could do with a bit of an update, make it a bit more presentable and colourful.Bullza (talk) 12:55, August 2, 2017 (UTC)

I just took a look out of curiosity, the character infobox we have currently has been in place for over 10 years now. It's older than most other wikia's in general. So yeah it is a bit outdated now and I don't think an update after such a long time would really hurt.

As for the colours, I looked up on it and that isn't something that I could change myself. I know it'd be a big change, it'd require a few people to make some changes and we'd have to check it works and all that but it shouldn't be too much of an effort.Bullza (talk) 13:13, August 2, 2017 (UTC)

Hey Bullza, you think we could also use the tabbers like on One Piece wikia. DragonEmeperor (talk) 21:57, August 2, 2017 (UTC)

I don't see a problem with a feature being in use with a long time, if it is a good feature. That said, did you say you wanted to remove clutter or that you want to add more lines to the infobox like in that template with the blocks? -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 23:22, August 2, 2017 (UTC)

Both really. I'd mean to add in some lines (or section headers) to make it more organised so that information was grouped up and then to swap out Affiliations for just Relatives so it only included immediate family and not everyone else which would reduce a lot of the clutter, for example Vegeta's affiliations alone makes up half his entire character Infobox.

Then in the space that that would save I'd like to add in lines for what movie and game that character debuted in alongside the anime and manga debuts, all of which would be under the debut section header.

Then change up the colour from dark blue to orange just to brighten it up and give the page a bit more colour.Bullza (talk) 00:16, August 3, 2017 (UTC)

I don't think we could because when I go on Luffy's page on my mobile I can't switch between tabs. I can only see the information on that first page, I can't see the abilities or the history or the others. Can you?Bullza (talk) 19:08, August 3, 2017 (UTC)

Manga and anime debuts actually introduce new characters. Video game and movie debuts don't do that. I'm concerned that removing affiliations is going to be buried in this formatting thread and we need more opinions. A lot of people worked hard on those over the years. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 02:43, August 4, 2017 (UTC)

When I say Video Game and Movie debuts I just mean it would list the Game and Movie that they were first in. So for Goku it'd be Curse of the Blood Rubies, for Piccolo it'd be Dead Zone, for Vegeta it'd be Return of Cooler etc.

We wouldn't be removing Affiliations entirely, we'd just be changing the name and then removing some of the names listed on it so it wasn't so cluttered. Which would be an easy thing to do. The Team mates which have been added to Affiliations now we're only added just a couple weeks ago. At one point it did just include family members but then people just kept adding more and more stuff to it because Affiliations is just a broad term.Bullza (talk) 13:08, August 4, 2017 (UTC)

So there are at least 4 separate issues here. First, some people are adding affiliations you find useless; this can be resolved by you undoing their edit. Second, you want to add in the first movie or game a character was in, which I find useless because movies are anime and we already have an anime debut entry, plus there are extremely few characters who premier in games--which game they were in first doesn't really matter. Third, you want to add more text to the infobox, but that just seems like more clutter without adding any extra info. Fourth, you want to recolor the infoboxes, but you are still working out a final design. My advice is undo bad edits as usual, accept that first video game appearance and infobox subtitles are just clutter, and focus on testing your infobox colors with multiple browsers and skins. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 04:31, August 5, 2017 (UTC)

To address each issue.

1. If I start removing affiliations that I just happen to find useless people will just add it back in. That would still need to be renamed to Relatives so that people didn't add those unnecessary affiliations back again in the future.

2. It's not really something important, it was just extra information that would have been in the space that removing all the extra affiliations would save. If you look at Beerus' page he has his movie, anime and manga debut listed already and so does Whis.

3. Well the other debuts would have been the extra information. The extra text was just to place the different information under specific headings. I had about five different headings for example, but with all the extra affiliations taken out it would still overall be a shorter more compact infobox.

4. Well am I still working on it but the the coloring is a problem. Where the text above the character names is currently a dark blue, well I don't know how to change that nor do I know if it would let me anyway. I also don't know how to make the one half orange and the other half white like how it is on Natsu's (but red).Bullza (talk) 13:55, August 5, 2017 (UTC)

Updating the Races Infoboxes

If the character infoboxes are ever completed, the infoboxes for the races need to be updated next as well. I'm trying to find a good example on other wikas that we could use here. DragonEmeperor (talk) 02:28, August 8, 2017 (UTC)

I couldn't find any good examples on other wikias so I created my own but I need help fixing it. Here's a preview of it [1]. DragonEmeperor (talk) 03:10, August 8, 2017 (UTC)

Changing Saga Navigation Box

Hi, all! I have a suggestion relating this template:

I find it messy to have the titles sorted like that. How about we change it to be this style? I find it very neat and easy to navigate rather than the current style. How about you guys? ConTraZ VII (talk) 06:03, December 3, 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, I commented on this elsewhere but I said I agreed with there being a change, I liked the way that navbox separates the sections better and also includes the volumes.
I was just unsure about replacing the titles with numbers because it might make it harder for people to quickly get to what they want.Bullza (talk) 07:58, December 3, 2017 (UTC)

Looks like nobody's here. ConTraZ VII (talk) 05:33, December 4, 2017 (UTC)

I do like adding the volumes to the template.--Neffyarious (talk) 17:39, December 7, 2017 (UTC)

Okay then, but I strongly suggest that we should put in the episode numbers instead of the titles because it will not be neat and too long to be included in the navigation box. The titles are also hard to search due to long titles and for some reason, some titles are lack of telling what is in the episode. If you refer to other wikis, they tend to make the navigation box as simple as they could. ConTraZ VII (talk) 07:10, December 8, 2017 (UTC)

Let's do it like: 77 (Super)78 (Super). That way its easier to distinguish from the other series and if this goes through we can do the same with DBZ, DBZ Kai, and DBGT. DragonEmeperor (talk) 08:24, December 8, 2017 (UTC)

Well if we were putting just the numbers under a saga navigation post then you wouldn't need to put (Super) because you'd know from the saga it's a part of.
We could also add the little series logo image that we use on some other navigation boxes if that's an issue.Bullza (talk) 11:04, December 8, 2017 (UTC)
Yes, I think we don't need the "(Super)" because we know in that particular arc, it only exist in the specific series. So do we need more voices from other users? ConTraZ VII (talk) 00:34, December 9, 2017 (UTC)

Updating Character Infobox (small)

I was wondering if we should add a "status" section of the Character Infobox we used to detail whether some is alive, deceased, or erased from existence as opposed as to putting erased from existence in brackets in the character's date of death. --Made up Character Wiki Admin Jack Jackson Things I do [mod] 04:56, December 4, 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm on this. ConTraZ VII (talk) 05:33, December 4, 2017 (UTC)
No, don’t do that. There are multiple versions of these characters throughout media. Many characters don’t have a single current status. It is also a huge spoiler right up front. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 03:24, December 8, 2017 (UTC)
I changed my mind. It does look better if we don't put it. ConTraZ VII (talk) 07:20, December 8, 2017 (UTC)

____: Xeno <-- That's the official Goku: Xeno figure. As you can see it's ___: Xeno and not ____ (Xeno) like some users have been trying to rename it to. See, the ____ (Xeno) label is exclusive to Dokkan Battle. It's not valid to rename all characters to it because they were named that way by Akatsuki, the developers of Dokkan Battle. But Akatsuki adapted the characters from Dragon Ball Heroes (Online originally). And in Dragon Ball Heroes it's _____: Xeno. And, as you can see, Bandai Namco uses that as the official title, as it shows on all merchandise of the DBH characters. —This unsigned comment was made by Shugesh (talkcontribs) Please sign your posts with ~~~~ next time!

Sure thing! With the evidence, I agree. If only you showed it weeks ago. Would've saved a lot of hassle. SuperBen 1000000 (talk) 02:24, January 12, 2018 (UTC)

Parallel world characters

Daizenshuu 6 states that the events of Dragon Ball: Curse of the Blood Rubies, Dragon Ball: Mystical Adventure and Dragon Ball Z: Super Android 13! occur in a parallel world. As such the incarnations of the characters in these movies are not the same as the ones in the main timeline.

I have created a page for the Goku of the parallel world to demonstrate. Each character of prominence in these movies should also be given pages and minor ones can simply be mentioned in the List of tertiary characters under a "Parallel world characters" section. The movies can still be in the main incarnations article but will simply have a link to the main pages as can be seen on the main Goku article.--Neffyarious (talk) 18:09, January 28, 2018 (UTC)

DO IT! It can prove that this "canon" doesn't exist. SuperBen 1000000 (talk) 20:07, January 28, 2018 (UTC)

Creating two more articles for every character in these movies seems awfully confusing for the 99.9% of readers who have not memorized that line of that particular edition of Daizenshuu. Is there a more intuitive solution to get this info out without 100 more articles? -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 20:49, January 28, 2018 (UTC)

It actually won't be many more articles as characters who are minor in those movies will not be deserving of pages. Plus, since the character's main page will still include the movies section - just with the only content being a link to the parallel world character page - it will serve to educate those who are not aware of this, without it being confusing.--Neffyarious (talk) 18:39, January 30, 2018 (UTC)

I like the main page link idea. Makes it more intuitive. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 04:52, January 31, 2018 (UTC)

Affiliations Tabs?

Recently, certain characters like Goku is having extremely long characters boxes due to the affliations tab growing longer. I was wondering if we could use tabs to fix that? It could be like Tab 1: Alternate Counterparts Tab 2: Family and Tab 3: Allies/Other. —This unsigned comment was made by TheAwesomeHyperon (talkcontribs) Please sign your posts with ~~~~ next time!

I already asked and tried that a long time ago. They said we couldn't do it because it doesn't appear on the cell phones like how One Piece wikia don't. DragonEmeperor (talk) 19:15, April 3, 2018 (UTC)

Universe Survival Saga

Unlike past differences between the manga and anime of Dragon Ball Super, the two versions of the Tournament of Power are very different from one another, formatting this in the way we have for past sagas of DBS will be difficult, so I suggest that under "Universe Survival Saga" we put both an "Manga" and "Anime" subsection for events on character biographies.--Neffyarious (talk) 13:41, May 19, 2018 (UTC)

What you said is true of all manga and anime. So we should obviously stay consistent with all the other content. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 13:58, May 19, 2018 (UTC)

It's very difficult in this case, as things happen out of order (in manga Hit is eliminated around 5 mins in, while in anime he's eliminated around 24 mins in - in both he is eliminated by Jiren) and other things occur much differently (like what the Kamikaze Fireballs role is). I don't know how to implement it if we try to do it the same way as with previous sagas.--Neffyarious (talk) 14:10, May 20, 2018 (UTC)

The sentence about Hit being eliminated by Jiren should differentiate the timing between sources. No need to rewrite the Manual of Style for all articles. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 14:46, May 20, 2018 (UTC)

Ok, I'll see what I can do.--Neffyarious (talk) 17:27, May 20, 2018 (UTC)

What way should we list the battles in the character pages because its starting to look messy due to the differences. DragonEmeperor (talk) 07:59, May 21, 2018 (UTC)

DBH anime placement

It's currently under the "Anime" level of canon on our placement due to it being an anime series. However I feel that due to it apparently being "promotional" and it's heavy usage of movie characters it will probably be appropriate to move it to the "Movie" level of canon.--Neffyarious (talk) 00:07, June 24, 2018 (UTC)

  • For now anyway I'm going to move it to the "Movies/Specials" levels of canon, it does not deserve to be placed on the same level as the full animes.--Neffyarious (talk) 10:12, July 3, 2018 (UTC)
Sounds good. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 23:46, July 3, 2018 (UTC)

Changes that need to be made to the Dragon Ball Wiki

There is no doubt that the Dragon Ball wiki has a collection of tons of Dragon Ball content, but I feel that the content of this information can be somewhat questionable. When scrolling through many pages there is no separation between content that happens in the manga, anime, and dubbed versions of the anime. I think the information pertaining to that particular area should be separate on the page not clumped together. That way one can be sure of where the information comes from and its accuracy relating to a particular work. Also, I think there is some misinformation that exists on the wiki. For instance, it is never confirmed that Nappa is an elite soldier of Frieza's. He is stated to be a mid-class warrior and Toriyama even confirmed that Vegeta and King Vegeta are the only elite warriors Saiyan warriors. I get that sometimes this misinformation can make certain characters more interesting, but I think it has no place on a wiki where people are looking for Dragon Ball information. I think the wiki needs some changes because many people in the community cannot rely on the wiki for accurate information and people outside the community do not think it is trustworthy. I think some speculation is ok like putting Jiren's species as Jiren's race because they are clearly other members of his race. Bad speculation would include thinking Frieza's race is an Arcrosian, or Nappa is an elite warrior because there is no evidence of this or the evidence is in dub form. Tiger2025 (talk) 00:26, July 4, 2018 (UTC)

I agree that we should do something about the misinformation and we should separate information from the manga and anime in articles. We could do what the wookiepedia does where we have different pages for a character's manga appearance and anime appearance. Or we could just make a different section for manga information and a different section on the anime information on an article like we do for film appearances. Now for the misinformation. This wiki has a bunch of speculation that doesn't belong on the pages, and makes it a lot less credible. Like I said in the forum, we could task certain users with the job to read many articles and locate and delete fake information. These issues have to be addressed to a make this wiki a lot more credible, and les confusing. Thanks!EH28 (talk) 01:00, July 4, 2018 (UTC)

Ok the reason Wookiepedia has two different pages for a character is because before Disney got the rights to Star Wars every bit of what is on the article's Legends page was considered canon, then Disney got the rights and said this which is everything on the legends page is not canon, so doing that here would be like us saying the anime is non-canon (a word that has never been uttered by someone with the rights to Dragon Ball) and the manga is, now the other option is a no go also because it would make the articles a whole hell of a lot longer then what some of them (i.e. Goku) already is, we quote the sources for where the info comes form (most info usually), especially if it isn't well known like on the Xenoverse 2 article about the DLC characters. Now the misinformation part every article I have read recently I haven't found one scrape of misinformation now with over 6,000 pages I am pretty sure their are some with misinformation but literally trying to hunt it down by myself would take to long. Also the speculation actually does have a place in the articles at time majority of the time that place is in the trivia section, but at times it has a place in the body when trying to explain why something may have happened. Also Tiger this is the English Dragon Ball Wiki which means our main source is the English version of the manga and the English Dub of the anime so when it comes to Nappa and him being an elite we aren't speculating. What I suggest for the whole can't tell what happens in the anime and what happens in the manga (which everything that happens in the manga almost it happens in the anime) we should put (anime only) or (manga only) like we do for the battles that way we keep everything almost the same but us plus the readers can tell what events are anime exclusive and what ones are manga exclusive.  Goku20  Talk  ULTRA DBZ  ULTRA POKEMON  03:33,7/4/2018 

Yeah it just wouldn't really be ideal for the most part. At least with Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z, the anime and manga are similar that it isn't worth adding a mass amount more information for what is largely the same thing, at best we can specify certain parts out as being part on the anime in brackets. This is much more problematic when it comes to Dragon Ball Super where there are notable differences between the anime and manga, more than can be explained away in brackets but I don't think there's any plans to change that right now.
As for the misinformation, that's always just going to be something unfortunate that will slip through. It should be corrected or at least discussed when it's come across. Frieza maybe being an Acrosian should really just be in the trivia if anything like speculating Dyspo was a part of Beerus' race for example.Bullza (talk) 06:05, July 4, 2018 (UTC)

I agree with Goku20 and Bullza. For info that is mostly the same between media sources, reference tags to separate sources like we do now make the info far easier to digest than tripling or quadrupling the size of every article with redundant info. Wookiepedia’s case is mostly different events, not four near-identical versions of the same events. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 05:19, July 5, 2018 (UTC)

I agree with those who disagree with this suggestion.

Orion (T-B-C) 09:46, July 5, 2018 (UTC)

See this is where we need to be careful with what we do without really discussing it first. I just read an article on Forbes about this movie and it mentions and linked to (the now deleted) Parallel Broly page on here. Even that article had 15,000 views in a few days.
So whatever gets implemented needs to be thought through because it can spread really fast and risks causing a lot of confusion amongst fans.Bullza (talk) 04:55, July 16, 2018 (UTC)

The real question is "Are we gonna separate the info or keep both together on one page? Cause we are still not getting anywhere with Broly. DragonEmeperor (talk) 05:04, July 16, 2018 (UTC)

I changed the redirect so at least the Forbes link will go to the Broly page. It’s unfortunate such a hastily made decision (by us) to post a fan-made name is now permanently out there. I agree completely about discussing things here first. While not exciting, the right thing to do is wait until there is more info to make any significant changes. For now, we should be adding info to the Broly article, and not adding our own opinions or names. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 01:38, July 17, 2018 (UTC)
Alright. I could agree with that but what about the parallel world issue. DragonEmeperor (talk) 01:58, July 17, 2018 (UTC)

Films and parallel world

Ok, so we have the films that were listed in the Daizenshuu as occurring in a parallel world listed on this page and have character pages for the characters who exist in the world. Considering the recent revelation that no reference was made to Broly when Kale went LSS, that a re-worked Broly will be appearing in Dragon Ball Super: Broly and how Toriyama has gone on record to say that he considers the original films to occur in a parallel world - should we just move right ahead and place all of the movies (aside from Garlic Jr. and Cooler) as occurring only in the Parallel World and not the Main Timeline like we currently do? --Neffyarious (talk) 21:48, July 9, 2018 (UTC)

I guess but how come Cooler can't be considered a parallel character. DragonEmeperor (talk) 21:56, July 9, 2018 (UTC)

He's in GT during the Super 17 Saga and DBS Vegeta recognizes him in the Prison Planet Saga.--Neffyarious (talk) 22:06, July 9, 2018 (UTC)

But, then what about Meta-Cooler? DragonEmeperor (talk) 22:09, July 9, 2018 (UTC)

That can go to parallel world.--Neffyarious (talk) 22:16, July 9, 2018 (UTC)

Okay, so to make sure before I start changing things, every movie except Cooler's Revenge, BoGs, and 'F' goes to Parallel Goku's page. Correct? DragonEmeperor (talk) 22:22, July 9, 2018 (UTC)

Every movie, including those 3, are in the parallel world.Rogeta234 (talk) 22:25, July 9, 2018 (UTC)

Neff told me not to include Cooler's Revenge. DragonEmeperor (talk) 22:35, July 9, 2018 (UTC)

Dead Zone, Cooler Revenge, Battle of Gods and Resurrection F will not be under parallel world. Dont start just yet, we should get a bit more input.Neffyarious (talk) 22:49, July 9, 2018 (UTC)

Dang, I just did Parallel Goku as an example and messaged you about it. DragonEmeperor (talk) 23:05, July 9, 2018 (UTC)

Neffy, It's pretty dang obvious the other movies are from the parallel world. Dead Zone: Krillin knew who Gohan was and this takes place before Raditz. Cooler's Revenge: Goku was, presumably, the one who killed Frieza, Gohan has a tail, and Vegeta is nowhere to be seen. BOG and RF: There's no Gregory and other things.Rogeta234 (talk) 00:21, July 10, 2018 (UTC)

Regarding Dead Zone, technically, Krillin when trying to find an excuse for why Gohan isn't with him when about to tell Chi-Chi about Goku's death, considered saying "Gohan's been kidnapped again", indicating that Raditz kidnapping him wasn't even the first time Gohan was abducted (remember, Chi-Chi wasn't even aware of Raditz up to that point, let alone that he abducted her son in an attempt to force Goku into depopulating the Earth), so that film's in the gray area (and besides, the events of that film were referenced explicitly with the Garlic Jr. Saga, and since Maron was given an indirect mention in the Universe Survival Saga when Android 18 went ballistic on 17 for mispronouncing Marron's name, it's safe to assume that the Garlic Jr. Saga did in fact happen [as that was the saga Maron made her debut in], and by extension Dead Zone.). Weedle McHairybug (talk) 16:53, July 11, 2018 (UTC)

Gregory is a anime only character, that's why he never appeared. DragonEmeperor (talk) 00:25, July 10, 2018 (UTC)

"It's obvious" is how wikis end up with false information. Just saying.

Orion (T-B-C) 00:30, July 10, 2018 (UTC)

BoG and ResF have never been referenced as occurring in a parallel world, they are always treated as part of the main timeline "Gregory is not in them" Gregory is not in the manga, so that would mean the manga is in a parallel world? What has been referenced as occurring in a parallel world are the first three Dragon Ball movies and the original thirteen Dragon Ball Z movies. Additionally, any other stories involving a world featuring characters like the original Broly would be moved to parallel world (e.g. Super Tenkaichi Budokai or Shin Budokai, but not the Xenoverses). I also would like to suggest a relabeling of the characters if this goes through, instead of "Goku (parallel world)" we could simply name it "Parallel Goku" (in the same way we use "Future Trunks" over "Trunks (Future timeline)".--Neffyarious (talk) 10:42, July 10, 2018 (UTC)

However it's done, it needs to be done in as simple a way as possible. Most fans won't be familiar with what this is and we wouldn't want to confuse them. So that would need to be thought of when including certain movies and leaving out others. I'd agree that BOG and ROF wouldn't need to be included as being a part of the parallel world though. I'd also agree that a name change would be better, Goku (parallel world) looks ugly. Parallel Goku or Goku: Parallel would be preferable.
I don't think we really need pages for everyone though like Parallel Oolong or Parallel Master Roshi, that could just stay in the Film Appearances for how little information there is. Broly could be a tricky one because most people are just going to search for "Broly", the "canon" Broly is still a good ways off so I don't think there's much to worry about there.Bullza (talk) 16:23, July 11, 2018 (UTC)
You can simply add {{DISPLAYTITLE:Name}} to those articles, replacing "Name" for whatever title you wish the article to display when being viewed. Keep in mind this is a purely cosmetic change and will not affect links or anything else. Personally, on another wiki I use my bot on, I just removed the "(...)" bit from titles like that. I could do the same here, if you give my bot a bot flag and approve its use.
Orion (T-B-C) 16:30, July 11, 2018 (UTC)

Yeah minor characters like Oolong staying is fine, we do a similar thing with characters like Future Frieza covering his appearances in both Trunks and Cell's timelines, (though in this case we'd mention it occurring in a parallel world). We could also always make them sub pages (like with Goku/Dragonball Evolution, thus Goku/Parallel World). For Broly, we just need a "You may be looking for the Broly from the original thirteen Dragon Ball movies" at the page top of DBS Broly's page.--Neffyarious (talk) 17:39, July 11, 2018 (UTC)

We should not be drawing conclusions on our personal idea of what might or might not be in one parallel world or another, and definitely not formatting articles based on it. Daizenshuu is a valid source, but “the DB Wiki admins decided this probably makes sense” is not. There is no need for this, and it will make info more difficult and convoluted for readers to find, not easier. Putting Goku’s movie info on the Goku article makes sense. Moving it to a parallel Goku article assumes that every casual reader will be familiar with this series of obscure guides and quotes, which is simply not the case. This site is meant to quickly provide info to all readers, not to please the minority of super-fans (including us) nit picking canon. Always consider whether a major change will make it easier to find info for the readers or not. This change makes the site worse relative to its purpose. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 02:05, July 12, 2018 (UTC)
Yeah, the only movies explicitly stated to occur in the parallel world are Curse of the Blood Rubies, Mystical Adventure, and Super Android 13. We literally don't know anything about the other movies, let alone the Triple Threat Trilogy. And don't assume that just because we don't have any indication that Goku and Vegeta even recognize Kale, that automatically means the Triple Threat trilogy isn't canon. Let's also not forget that Dead Zone had various conflicts to the anime, yet thanks to the Garlic Jr. Saga (not to mention Maron's reference in Super during the Universe Survival Saga), that movie's clearly canon, at least to the anime timeline. And besides, even the manga has made a few slip-ups in terms of continuity (case in point, Perfect Cell regenerating into Super Perfect Cell via his brain/head surviving self-destruction, and that was despite Cell regenerating earlier in SPITE of losing the entire top half of his body, head included, from Goku's Warp Kamehameha.). We really should wait until we get more information regarding the new Broly movie (and even IF the Triple Threat Trilogy is indeed relegated to another dimension, that doesn't mean it's part of the parallel world, just means it's part of a separate dimension from the anime/manga timeline, which could just as easily be a separate dimension from even parallel world for all we know. Unless Toriyama or one of the guidebooks explicitly states that Triple Threat is in parallel world [and just so we're clear, it has to use the exact terminology used to describe the Movie timeline especially in Japanese, in case they have slightly different wording.], in other words, we can't list them as actually belonging there.). Weedle McHairybug (talk) 02:25, July 12, 2018 (UTC)

This only happened because we found out Broly was gonna have a different story in this new movie. That's why we were discussing this first because his character is gonna be different than triple threat version. DragonEmeperor (talk) 03:53, July 12, 2018 (UTC)

He's right. Akira's message from the site clearly indicates this isn't going to be the same Broly or a sequel of sort. He looks different, Akira says he's different, clearly that's flags indicating that the Triple Threat Trilogy isn't canon to the anime. And isn't Garlic Jr. Saga a filler arc? Wasn't filler in DBZ also the same levels of movie canon?
Only responding in this manner because the manner in which it was done is confusing in format, so if anyone objects, I apologize in advance.
Okay, put in THAT context, we can probably say it's not part of the anime timeline, and thus deserves to be given a separate article. In that limited sense, I fully agree. However, I'm still not sure if we should go so far as to list the Broly movies as being part of the Parallel World timeline, since, technically, the only movies specifically stated to be in that timeline were Curse of the Blood Rubies, Mystical Adventure, and Super Android 13. For all we know, each of the other movies occupy their own separate universes. My idea is, unless they explicitly state that they are in Parallel World timeline (and more than a general "all movies are in the Parallel World", but a specific annotated list), we can't be sure where they occur.
As far as Garlic Jr. Saga, yes, it's a filler arc, but on the other hand, I'd argue that filler arcs are slightly higher than movie canon (well, movie canon for anything pre-Battle of Gods anyway) since unlike the movies where, barring character designs, Akira Toriyama doesn't have much involvement in the story, Toriyama actually DOES have at least some input to the filler stories (for example, he was the one who depicted Grand Kai as a hipster, and besides which, the whole Yamcha baseball thing at the beginning of the Saiyan Saga was actually Toriyama's idea). And besides, considering Super actually referenced Maron recently (specifically, it's when Android 18 went ballistic on Android 17 for the latter mispronouncing his niece's name), it's safe to assume the Garlic Jr. Saga did indeed happen (since if Maron exists, the saga definitely had to happen, since she debuted in that saga). Weedle McHairybug (talk) 15:00, July 12, 2018 (UTC)

Ok, so I recently renamed Parallel Trunks into Parallel Future Trunks to avoid confusion when we make a Parallel Trunks article for the main tl Trunks. Why was future Trunks even named as just Trunks if we're going to be making new articles for every big character in a DB or DBZ film?

And on top of that, why are we still considering GT as being part of the main continuity of the anime? What will happen if we get an new anime series that rewrites over that series? Will they be added to this parallel dimension or will they get their own "GT" page? Just thinking about the future is all. Toriyama never stated anything about GT being in another dimension, only considered it as a side story to follow up Z.--Invader Rob II (talk) 04:16, July 12, 2018 (UTC)

Regarding GT, while it's true that GT is considered a side story, that doesn't necessarily mean it's not canon. Until there's a new show that takes place AFTER End of Z and specifically shows a different take for those events from GT, we have to assume it occurs afterward. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 15:02, July 12, 2018 (UTC)

One more thing to add. Geekdom101 pointed out that Paragus' voice actor from the games is listed at the bottom on the movie poster. I wouldn't make an article for him yet, but we might need to prepare to renamed that page too to Parallel Paragus.--Invader Rob II (talk) 04:22, July 12, 2018 (UTC)

Yeah see, I agree with 10x Kamehameha on this because I think this is all over complicating matters. It was nice and straight forward before when you had the characters page, for example Goku, you had a film section and it described what he did in a particular movie, quick, simple and effective. Now if I were a casual reader, I go to Goku's page, I see that Dead Zone and Coolers Revenge is there...but not the rest and that's elsewhere so now I'm confused.
Now we're having new pages for Parallel versions of the characters, there's a Parallel General Tao, Parallel Trunks etc. There's two different pages for Broly, that will certainly confuse people no doubt. The movie isn't even out until December so that's jumped the gun a bit.
Preferably it should have all have been left on the one page, there would be one Goku and one Trunks page etc where it have been noted that these specific films took place in a Parallel World rather than whole new pages and splitting things up. It's not like anyone really complained about how things were before and people generally knew for themselves that it wasn't quite the same Goku or Vegeta because the majority if people know the movies aren't canon anyway.08:59, July 12, 2018 (UTC)Bullza (talk) 09:00, July 12, 2018 (UTC)

Ok, I see this has caused some confusion so I'll go into detail as to what this entails. Best for now that no more of these Parallel pages are made until this is sorted.

  • Some people seem to be mistaking this as a "Canon" page and "Non-Canon" page, this is not what is happening, there is no official canon. So filler, GT, video games etc remain on the main page - they have not been referenced as occurring in a parallel world.
  • So what goes on the Parallel character pages? Initially we only put DB movies 1 and 2 and DBZ movie 7, since there pages on Daiz6 stated they occurred in a parallel world. However Daiz6 also had an interview with Toriyama, where he stated that all of the movies occur in a parallel world to the main story. At the same time, our canon hierarchy has Anime as greater than Toriyama comments and as such Dead Zone and Cooler's Revenge must remain on the main timeline character pages due to being referenced in DBZ / DBGT.
  • As for being confusing to casual readers, it will not be as long as implemented properly, just as how it was when we originally only had three films. You see under a characters's Film appearances section we can have an "Other films" section of a sort (example: Goku), so a casual reader will go to the Film section wondering where the other films are and will find them in that section. This will in fact probably be more straightforward than when we only had three films on the pages.
  • A huge benefit of this will be that it lessens the size of large pages like Goku's - which for some people will not even load on their phones, or will lag when someone tries to edit them, due to their size.

I hope this explains everything, sorry for the confusion. --Neffyarious (talk) 10:55, July 12, 2018 (UTC)

Why do we put Bojack movie as a parallel world? And the other issue is: are the parallel world and Xeno-world (the dimension that Goku:Xeno is from) are the same world? 'Cause for eg. Lord Slug, Janemba and Broly appeare in the manga, and for eg. Gohan clearly remembers the events of the movie 3. So can we assume it is the same dimension and Parallel Goku and Goku:Xeno are probably the same person??

+It's about time to creat a page for Xeno Trunks. Because obviously, Xeno Trunks who appeares in SDBH manga is not the same that the one from 'Super'. @szopman

I agree, I think we should put more parallel pages on hault until we get more details on the upcoming movie.--Invader Rob II (talk) 15:47, July 12, 2018 (UTC)

Bojack does not appear in anything aside from his movie, so nothing indicates his movie occurs outside of the parallel world. Para-world and Xeno-world don't seem to be the same - Xeno-world's Fusion Reborn events are different and Goku Xeno has no SSB.--Neffyarious (talk) 17:26, July 12, 2018 (UTC)

I have a doubt, why The Legend of Shen long, Great Mystical Adventure and Extreme Battle!!! The Three Super Saiyans traditionally considered to be part of the exact same parallel world/continuity? Yon!米津愛主!Golden Frieza artVisit my talk page! 20:54, July 12, 2018 (UTC)

To respond to a note above about article size, that is a separate issue. We can break out sections into smaller articles, like we have done with some lists of character techniques easily. There is no need to mix that issue with parallel character articles. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 03:04, July 13, 2018 (UTC)
I'm aware, I'm just saying it's also a side benefit that comes with these pages.--Neffyarious (talk) 09:57, July 13, 2018 (UTC)

Well although we seemed to have agreed the other day not to make more of these pages for now, today I've woken up to a new Parallel Gohan page but also a Parallel Chi-Chi and Roshi page.

This is why I was unsure of going this route because it's going to end up making it worse and more confusing. It was a nice and simple set up before, you had a character and the movie information on that page, so this is fixing something that's not broken. Now I don't know what's going on. There should have been a page explaining what the Parallel World was and that should probably have been it.

Now as a casual viewer, I go to Vegeta's page to see what he did in the Real 4-D and...I don't know, it's not there. I don't know that it's on some other version of Vegeta's page.

This "All of Vegeta's appearances in first thirteen Dragon Ball Z films are those of a Vegeta of a parallel world where most movies occur." which has a mistake to begin with because it should be "in THE first" but that could easily have just been put at the top of the film section as a note with all the other information below. It didn't need a whole new page for it.Bullza (talk) 15:19, July 14, 2018 (UTC)

The people who made those pages probably did not read the talk. It won't be more confusing when it's fully implemented. "Now as a casual viewer, I go to Vegeta's page to see what he did in the Real 4-D" for one a casual viewer probably does not know about Real 4D, if they found out about it via it's page then they would probably click on a parallel Vegeta link on that page, plus when this is properly implemented the 4D section would still be on Vegeta's page, the section would just have "Main: Parallel Vegeta" in it, so the viewer would immediately be directed where they want to go. Yeah the "All of Vegeta's appearances in first thirteen Dragon Ball Z films are those of a Vegeta of a parallel world where most movies occur." should go at the top of the page, that's where I was planning to put it where this to get implemented, I'll move it now just in case.--Neffyarious (talk) 15:54, July 14, 2018 (UTC)

Bullza is absolutely right about fixing things that are not broken. And without a consensus here yet, too. For the time being there should be none of these head-canon parallel articles. It’s ridiculous to assume all fans are aware of precisely these two obscure quotes. They are somewhat interesting as trivia on the relevant movie articles. No charater articles should be torn apart with large sections of content hidden on other articles due to this. I hope we don’t end up losing content over all these hastily made reformatting edits made while the discussion is trending toward them being a very detrimental potential change. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 04:47, July 15, 2018 (UTC)

How's it headcanon when it's in the Daizenshuu? We aint assuming that fans are aware of the Daiz info, we're a wiki, fans come here to learn, we're withholding information by not including it. Contenet aint "hidden" when the section is still there with a link to the new page. I guess we should also merge Goku/Dragonball Evolution with the Goku page then? --Neffyarious (talk) 10:54, July 15, 2018 (UTC)

You say it won’t confuse casual readers to format the site based on an obscure quote in one guide book? You were wrong. Editors had already started moving GT and Xenoverse content to those parallel articles thinking it would be a dumping ground for anything they consider non-canon. It the editors don’t get it, readers sure won’t either. I don’t recommend hiding the obscure quote, I said above it would be interesting trivia for the movies’ trivia sections, and obviously also belongs on the Daiz page.
Now your last ditch effort is to say fans should consider an American-made live action film that does not attempt to match the plot of DB is the same as core anime films made by the same people in the same time period as the DBZ anime? That makes zero sense.
Your proposed change comes from a good place of logic and a desire for accuracy, but involves too much editor-logic forced on readers and reformats the site in a counter-intuitive way. It cannot be implemented on the Wiki at this point. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 15:26, July 15, 2018 (UTC)
I have to agree with 10X on this one. While it's important to inform the readers which events are confirmed to take place in parallel continuities, splitting articles like that only serves to confuse editors and readers. It's a shame because I do enjoy some parts of the idea - the smaller article sizes seem like a huge benefit, for example, and I like the thought of clearly telling readers that there are separate continuities. If only it could be implemented in a less confusing way. — Final ChidoriTalk 15:56, July 15, 2018 (UTC)

10X, I was under the impression we had DBE separate because Toriyama referred to it as occurring in a separate dimension, not because it was American. A user adding GT to non-canon is nothing new, it ain't the page's fault.

Yo Chidori, glad to have you back. We can still move large sections to other pages to trim them down, like a Goku/Film Appearances page, like how we have a List of techniques used by Goku (which I believe should be relabeled to Goku/Techniques in order to make it a sub page rather than a list).

Anyhow, there is actually a simpler way to implement the parallel worlds that I was considering, we restore the "Another Dimension" page, and at the start of each appropriate section on each page we put "In another dimension<ref>Daiz6</ref>" before the rest of the info.

For example on Goku's page under the world's strongest section it would look like:

In another dimension:<ref>Daiz6</ref>
After learning that Dr. Wheelo has captured Bulma and Master Roshi, thinking Roshi is the strongest warrior in the world, Goku goes to Dr. Wheelo's icy fortress to save them.

It's a lot simpler, what do you think? --Neffyarious (talk) 16:55, July 15, 2018 (UTC)

That could work since the page trimming idea is dead now. DragonEmeperor (talk) 17:31, July 15, 2018 (UTC)

So you mean to just have the one character page with it being noted near the top of the Film section that the movies take place in an Another Dimension? All the film information would stay where it is? If so that would seem for the best.
I see most the Parallel pages aren't there now have they been deleted?Bullza (talk) 17:39, July 15, 2018 (UTC)

Yeah that's sorta what I mean, though we should also split larger pages' sections into subpages, so Goku's would move to a Goku/Film Appearances page. Or we could do a Goku/Other Appearances which has both the films and the "Other Dragon Ball stories" sections.--Neffyarious (talk) 18:36, July 15, 2018 (UTC)

I agree with Neff's idea, however we should still have a separate page for the Triple Threat version of Broly, as he's completely different from the newer one. I propose making a page for him and naming it "Z-Broly" or something along those lines as a way to indicate he's from the Z Movies and not the canonical timeline. ExyleCage (talk) 19:11, July 15, 2018 (UTC)

It's already made and separated. For now, that should be the only page with a parallel counterpart since we can't agree the other parallel pages. DragonEmeperor (talk) 19:15, July 15, 2018 (UTC)

Well if for the majority of the characters the pages will largely stay the same with the "Another Dimension" note then that would be preferred.
Characters like Goku and maybe Vegeta having split off pages for their Film appearances...we'll see what people say about that but again we'd have to be careful it wouldn't go the same way. Like how we had a page for "List of techniques used by Goku" but then it came to the point we had one for too many characters and they eventually got deleted so we'd have to avoid that from happening.
Broly having two pages...I'd say should be fine. It is early because the movie isn't even out for half a year but they do seem like they could be different.Bullza (talk) 20:02, July 15, 2018 (UTC)

What do you think would be better: a "Goku/Film Appearances" covering just the films or a "Goku/Other Appearances" covering both films and other media? Also, it may be smarter to keep old Broly as "Broly" as Heroes will probably give new Broly a separate name we can use for his page title. --Neffyarious (talk) 20:08, July 15, 2018 (UTC)

We have to call the new Broly something because I put conjectural on the old Broly so people will know his current name isn't permanent. DragonEmeperor (talk) 20:16, July 15, 2018 (UTC)

”A user adding GT to non-canon is nothing new, it ain't the page's fault.” What a purposely deceptive, dismissive way to avoid addressing the biggest reason we can’t implement this. You aren’t talking non-canon, you are talking about parallel articles for mainstream content about main characters, and your small test made it obvious that even those paying attention get confused by this. I don’t want to be too personal but you have this frustrating pattern of avoiding questions about your side of arguments and pretending others said something else. Your recommendation of splitting articles by your perception of a specific parallel universe is too confusing for readers. Let’s talk about how to get this point across without splitting articles (I’m not against splitting out large sections on large pages like techniques, biography, etc. if it helps withe some users’ loading times). -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 21:43, July 15, 2018 (UTC)

I already suggested a better way of getting the parallel world point across above (also wanna point out again it's not my perception of a specific parallel world, it's from Daizenshuu 6). Dragon, Bullza and Exyle seem to agree with the new idea. --Neffyarious (talk) 21:57, July 15, 2018 (UTC)

If (and I do mean If so that people don't rush into it) it does get decided to make a separate page for Goku then I'd suggest just starting with the Films for now for simplicity. Just a straight forward film page.
Also Goku's page is the second largest page on this site, it is 57% larger than the next biggest character page which is for Vegeta. So Goku is probably the only character that this would really be necessary for.
For Broly, I'd just have the one page for now and when the time comes Heroes does give it another name which would be nearing the films release anyway then we could see about making another page.Bullza (talk) 22:49, July 15, 2018 (UTC)

That's why I wanted to use the Template:Parent Tab 2 for large pages but was denied. As for the Broly issue, I'll just wait for the movie or new info. DragonEmeperor (talk) 23:27, July 15, 2018 (UTC)

Honestly, we've already met a concensus on the issue. The majority of us involved in this conversation agree with Neff's idea. Why we don't just go ahead with it at this point makes absolutely no sense. We're just delaying something that WILL eventually come to pass, and we all know it. I voted we just go ahead and stop this silly squable in favor of the more logical plan. IE; Neff's plan. ExyleCage (talk) 01:34, July 16, 2018 (UTC)

I agree, making a separate Goku/films page is a good idea. Hi ExyleCage and welcome to Wikia. Unlike elections, Wikia does not function on votes. We use civil discussion and consensus. Please read the Rules page before editing, including the section on consensus. After that, please contribute and add your thoughts to help aid the Wiki constructively make decisions. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 04:25, July 16, 2018 (UTC)

I will admit I shouldn't have spoken like that, and I apologize. Lemme try again. In an effort to decrease confusion and keep the two versions of Broly more organized, I believe we should also separate his innitial movie appearances from his lates appearance. I believe this would give anyone who visits the page a much more refined manner of education on the topic of Broly(s) himself (themselves). ExyleCage (talk) 04:38, July 16, 2018 (UTC)

Here's an example of the suggestion I made before. --Neffyarious (talk) 13:34, July 17, 2018 (UTC)

The Parent Tab 2

This is my proposal right here for pages too big only. I managed to fix right and got the signature colors in. This is what every fandom site uses and we shouldn't be the only ones. I want everybody to think this over first before shooting me down. DragonEmeperor (talk) 01:55, July 17, 2018 (UTC)

I remember the last time this was brought up, it didn't really work on mobile. I wouldn't be opposed to it if it worked across all platforms. — Final ChidoriTalk 15:50, July 17, 2018 (UTC)
This is not what “every fandom” does. But if we get it working cross-platform it might help longer articles. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 02:29, July 18, 2018 (UTC)
I meant to put almost for that one, but Neff said that we could make the parent tab, but still keep the section headings on the page with Main article: Goku/section for mobile users. DragonEmeperor (talk) 03:54, July 18, 2018 (UTC)

Infobox relative section

A lot of infoboxes have way too many people listed under affiliations. I believe that only truly significant relations should be listed: counterparts, family, lifelong best friend, rivals, and mentors/students. Things like henchmen, bosses and teammates should be removed (unless they are really significant to the character e.g. Frieza being Ginyu's boss). --Neffyarious (talk) 11:50, July 28, 2018 (UTC)

That's what Bullza wanted to try along time ago, but he passed on it then since he knew people would just put it back. DragonEmeperor (talk) 19:17, July 28, 2018 (UTC)

What does “really significant” mean? It is too difficult to enforce unless you get more specific. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 02:32, July 29, 2018 (UTC)

Infoboxes for the Dragon Ball sagas

I have a suggestion. Right now I don't know if it's a good idea. On the One Piece wiki in the infoboxes for the sagas, they have volumes, chapters and episodes, but they also indicate how many there are in the saga. I personally think indicating how many volumes, chapters, or episodes in a certain saga would be a good addition for this wiki. We already have a section with how many episodes covered. If you think it isn't necessary, fine. RedRock3300 (talk) 12:56, August 4, 2018 (UTC)

In general, this seems redundant and non-critical, it will make the infobox longer but won’t necessarily give readers more info they can’t find easily somewhere else on the site. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 16:13, August 5, 2018 (UTC)

Is there a way to simplify the Heroes material?

With some of the characters or pages that are related to Dragon Ball Heroes, it can be a bit confusing to follow. You have things like "In the anime...", "In the manga...", "In the game...", "In the game opening..." and "In the PV trailer". Makes it a bit more complicated than it probably needs to be, for example I go to Kanba's page on the biography you have a description for the anime, game and game opening. In his power section it gives different examples for the anime, the game and the game opening.

Not that I have any real idea of what should be done instead but I don't know how necessary it is to include the PV and the Game Openings on the pages when they're just trailers and if you have a full fledged anime and manga in it's place. Just makes it hard to keep up with what's going on in all the different versions of what is really just the one similar story.Bullza (talk) 10:50, August 24, 2018 (UTC)

Do you think we should practice on the sandbox with this and see what the results can give us that give a community consensus on it if we alterate how Kanba and other Hero focuesed areas on the articles to give a better understanding of them? 0551E80Y (talk) 12:48, August 24, 2018 (UTC)

Why don't you just use the tabber for it like we did for the abilities. DragonEmeperor (talk) 17:03, August 24, 2018 (UTC)

Putting the tabber's in the biography would just make it a mess. Also there's not enough information for some sections that it would even be worth it. There's only so much you can write off of a 60 second Heroes opening.
Using the sandbox might be an idea too. Now I've had more time, what I was thinking is...if we have the manga or the anime, which is an actual fleshed out version of those events then just remove the rest. There's no need to explain what happened in a brief game opening if you have a full manga chapter that covers it properly. Like on Goku Xeno's page, the biography is based on a combination of the anime and manga, not the game. That is until the Demigra Assault saga and that's a description of the game opening because that's the only version at the moment.
Once the manga reaches that point, if it does, then we'd remove the game opening description and replace it with a manga or anime description rather than having both. I think including everything from every version is making it complicated.Bullza (talk) 19:13, August 24, 2018 (UTC)
Could you show us an example by using the sandbox? --0551E80Y (talk) 14:08, August 25, 2018 (UTC)
When I get some time, I'll put something together and then post it here.Bullza (talk) 10:16, August 26, 2018 (UTC)
Here's my example of simplifying the info. DragonEmeperor (talk) 06:26, August 27, 2018 (UTC)
So I suppose something akin to this, I cut out the sections that weren't necessary for the example.
So essentially, the Biography section explains what he did in the anime up to where the anime left off and then it continues with what happened next in the manga. The stuff that is mentioned for the Game and the Game Opening I took out.
For the Power section that's largely the same but isn't as separated between the anime and the manga. Again I took out the description for the Game Opening because again it's just an advert and it should't really bare much significance. I also removed the Game Battles to maybe swap with the Manga Battles but that isn't too important.Bullza (talk) 16:36, August 30, 2018 (UTC)

Should the Manga and Anime be split into different sections for the history portion?

At least for the Dragon Ball Super characters I think that could help organize things a bit. Idk though Creeperman129 (talk) 23:28, August 27, 2018 (UTC)

I think they should. It would make the articles a lot more organized, and easier for viewers to find information about the manga. Thanks EH28 (talk) 23:45, August 27, 2018 (UTC)

So I could edit those articles then to make that difference or? Creeperman129 (talk) 23:55, August 27, 2018 (UTC)

I don't know I'm not an admin or anything. You could try, but it might get reverted. Thanks EH28 (talk) 02:54, August 28, 2018 (UTC)

GT content being moved to the Xeno pages?

Most of us already know that GT is "non canon", anyone who has seen Super knows that GT simply becomes more contradictory to the timeline as it goes on. Xenoverse also made it clear that the events of GT took place in an alternate timeline.

Now it would seem that Goku: Xeno from Dragon Ball Heroes, the one from an alternate timeline is actually the same Goku from GT.

That would probably be true then for other characters like Vegeta and Gohan etc. So how would we feel about transporting the GT content from these character pages like the biography, abilities, fights etc and move it over to the Xeno version of that character?

It'd be a massive change and I don't expect it would be done because of it but I thought it was worth bringing up.Bullza (talk) 20:13, September 28, 2018 (UTC)

No. Super should not take precedence. "Canon" in the absolute sense is not a thing.

Orion (T-B-C) 20:16, September 28, 2018 (UTC)

Yeah. As long as it doesn't turn into a big problem like how we gonna move the movies into separate pages before. DragonEmeperor (talk) 20:39, September 28, 2018 (UTC)

It wouldn't just be a precedence toward Super. As I said the Xenoverse games do place the events of GT in another timeline, quite likely the same one from which the characters from Dragon Ball Heroes originate from.
So if the events of GT happened to Goku: Xeno rather than Goku than it would be more accurate to be on that page instead. This wouldn't be like the Parallel World mess because this Super Dragon Heroes anime/manga shows the two different Goku together, both of which have their own different background.Bullza (talk) 23:30, September 28, 2018 (UTC)

I’d rather separate the video game content out, which is more obviously “non-canon” than any manga or anime to people who put stock in fan-made canons—-the only canons available to DB media. Saying GT is a video-game specific series doesn’t make any sense. It’d be like saying Super content should be removed from articles and put into a new video game section as part of the One Piece universe because of the Shonen crossover video games. If we have to present a stance on canon, media type is the only good way go do it. Other series (Naruto, Star Wars, Sherlock Holmes) have different situations from each other and from DB). -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 17:26, September 30, 2018 (UTC)

If hypothetically Dragon Ball Super were to pass the point where GT began, so there was an overlap of the timeline, what would we do then?Bullza (talk) 08:06, October 3, 2018 (UTC)
In that case, I'd vote to give them both their own pages, as alternate timelines.
Orion (T-B-C) 08:48, October 3, 2018 (UTC)
I do not think we should bring that into consideration based on present info for super that has been released that (currently) has no indication of heading into the time period that GT takes place in. If Toriyama and/or other official owners release information in the future for where Super or whatever comes after it, will be set in GT's place. I'm certain the wiki would rearrange things to fit the new narrative continuity. But as you said Bullza, it's merely "Hypothetical" at this point that such a thing could happen, but not confirmed at this moment. So i do not think we should worry or even think about that right now. --0551E80Y (talk) 09:48, October 3, 2018 (UTC)
We already have a problem like that with one character: Kibito Kai. He defused in Super back into Shin and Kibito, but in GT he still exists. So where does that him. DragonEmeperor (talk) 22:08, October 3, 2018 (UTC)
Well given that where Super is now vs where GT is placed is still a number of years away. There is plenty of time for them to fuse back together, whether accidently or not, and Elder Kai forbids them from using the dragon balls again for a selfish purpose because of his views on their usage. I wouldn't worry about it at this stage. 0551E80Y (talk) 02:03, October 4, 2018 (UTC)

Plus we’d be giving special treatment to Super-GT issues, when there are already actual inconsistencies in DB, DBZ, Super, and GT both wihin themselves alone, and in fitting with each other. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 12:24, October 5, 2018 (UTC)

Dub Only Information

I don't think the Zalama page should be merged with the Super Shenron page. Because Zuno in the Japanese version never actually said that Super Shenron was Zalama. The english dub made a mistake i think. Dub only information should only be acknowledged in the information sections of the pages and it should not be taken as official. RedRock3300 (talk) 10:15, October 18, 2018 (UTC)

This topic is about 1 article. Please use that article’s talk page. Thanks. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 16:17, October 18, 2018 (UTC)

Should we start separating Dragon Ball Super in character biographies by Anime/Manga?

At this point it feels kind of strange to keep saying "In the anime this happened" and "In the manga that happened". They've both diverged so much at this point that it feels like the wiki should probably do a better job separating the two. Instead of having a section called "Dragon Ball Super" in the biographies, it feels like they should be separated into "Dragon Ball Super (Anime)" and "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)". It'd make it a lot more clear what happens where. Some places just feel like a jumble sometimes. With how different some characters behave and how different their events play out I almost feel like manga versions of DBS characters should have their own pages. Jiren and Kale in particular feel like the most egregious examples. Gildeds (talk) 12:51, October 21, 2018 (UTC)

I think it could be improved. It's a bit of a mess s it is right now. Having whole other sections for the manga would be an overload of information though and it needs to be kept as simple to grasp for people as possible. I thought the tab idea would be suitable because you'd just quickly switch between the anime and manga versions and they wouldn't have to be mashed up together but it isn't compatible with the mobile versions.
This wasn't really much of a problem until about half way through the Future Trunks Saga but now they're so completely different it's made it awkward.Bullza (talk) 14:23, October 21, 2018 (UTC)

According to the MoS, we should be using reference tags, not in-text statements for sources, so the issue is less “we need a better solution” and more “editors are not currently following site policy.” -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 18:15, October 21, 2018 (UTC)

I don't really see how using more reference tags would help all that much in this issue. At best it comes at the cost of adding a new reference tag for every episode/chapter where something different would happen, which doesn't sound that effective. The way anime and manga stuff is kept together still makes it confusing in the end, because you're giving two depictions for two different events, or worse, two descriptions for what might effectively be two different characters, all in the same section. Gildeds (talk) 21:37, October 21, 2018 (UTC)

Using reference tags instead of in-text statements would make it extremely confusing and near unreadable. --Neffyarious (talk) 23:36, October 21, 2018 (UTC)

Most Wikis use reference tags, as well as Wikipedia. My concern is this path leads to different versions of every character for manga, anime, movies, and one each for every game. Six versions of Goku pleases some super fans who are very picky like us, but makes info impossible to find and digest quickly for casual readers. This site is not meant to be a comprehensive guidebook (those exist), but rather a quick reference. Multiplying all the articles 6x or more doesn’t suit our mission. Let’s keep brainstorming. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 02:28, October 23, 2018 (UTC)

I think the suggestions that users give should be first tried out in the sandbox first then link the examples back here so we can see what they're suggesting in action before deciding on the actual changes or not. 0551E80Y (talk) 03:15, October 23, 2018 (UTC)

How about something like this since we were doing it to SDBH characters. DragonEmeperor (talk) 04:38, October 23, 2018 (UTC)

Confusing and unintuitive. Is it differences or did we just not feel like writing as detailed a summary for the manga? This path leads to articles 6x as long. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 02:56, October 24, 2018 (UTC)
Its only for the Future Trunks and Universe Survival Sagas. Also, most of the characters have small roles in the ToP so that shouldn't be a problem for them. Its only ones with large pages. DragonEmeperor (talk) 03:04, October 24, 2018 (UTC)
However unintuitive you feel it is, I think it's the best option/compromise to avoid having multiple pages for a single character. However you cut it, the different events for the Zeno Expo should be separated to avoid any confusion given the fact that, again, you're listing two completely different events that happen in a single section as though they're the same thing. Articles won't get that much longer since less events happen in the manga in general. That being said I plan to edit that sandbox to provide a somewhat better example of what I mean. At least a far more detailed biography of the manga's Zeno Expo, with images from the manga. Gildeds (talk) 08:00, October 24, 2018 (UTC)

Wiki means quick. Two full summaries here is an arbitrary decision, applicable to all events and all media types. Your proposal amounts to full, highly redundant summaries for all events and all media types, and is not an acceptable solution. Also, it is neither the best option nor a compromise between any options. It is extreme and unacceptable for this format of a website. Think more broadly than this example in front of you and consider the implications. Let’s brainstorm some different ideas. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 04:47, October 25, 2018 (UTC)

Do you got any ideas then? DragonEmeperor (talk) 05:07, October 25, 2018 (UTC)

But the other option suggested (simply using reference tags to cite every single difference) I think wouldn't help much in terms of confusion or readability (unless someone is willing to disprove me on this via example on a page like Jiren's anyhow). Not to mention at this point we already have multiple pages for characters appearing in films/video games because the events those characters go through in their stories are different than the main series (I don't really agree with this either. I personally preferred just keeping sections for the movies/games on those pages, and that's effectively just what I'm proposing now. Though the justifications I see for those pages are that they're different timelines ala Future Trunks, and I'm kinda hoping it wouldn't be applicable in this case.).
You argue that if we split up the summaries based on the adaptation it'd be redundant, but it wouldn't because the events that happen in the manga differ heavily from those of the anime. You could at least say filler arcs in DBZ take place between various events, or that the only real difference is some minor character that doesn't affect anything in the end (like Gregory or Satan's pupils). The events that happened in the manga for Dragon Ball you can say do happen in the anime. Even in the case of the movies they're meant to (theoretically) happen between some events in the anime without affecting everything else (unless it's Garlic Jr. but that falls under "filler that takes place between certain events" anyhow). 
But in Super's case the manga's events and the anime's events differ almost completely. Jiren effectively has a completely different backstory in addition to his personality being completely different. It's such a big difference that he is pretty much a different character entirely from what we see in the anime. For the Zeno Expo, you have a fight between Universe 9 and Universe 7 or a fight between all the Gods of Destruction. For the Future Trunks arc you have Trunks with Super Saiyan Rage fighting Fused Zamasu or Future Trunks having healing powers an healing Goku so he can fight Fused Zamasu. What might you suggest be done about that? Other than the solutions discussed I'm not entirely sure, but I'm not a seasoned editor or anything either. Apologies for the walls of text, hoping I got everything across well, however. Gildeds (talk) 07:17, October 25, 2018 (UTC)

Idk how much DB media you have experienced, but there are differences in all the media, mostly very minor. Please understand the change you are suggesting applies to the whole site. You are suggesting 6x redundancy that goes against the mission of a “quick” read encyclopedia. We can’t do it. Let’s come up with some other ideas, besides multiple plot summaries for all media types. Thanks. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 22:58, October 25, 2018 (UTC)

I already pointed out that most differences across media adaptations are minor. I'm suggesting we try to "scale it" in some form. How different is one adaptation versus another? Most media adaptations have differences that are very minor, and nothing should be changed regarding that. This change I'm suggesting applies specifically to the Super anime and manga adaptational differences. Probably the only real case where you could argue the adaptations do things completely different anyhow. You can't look at those differences and tell me separating specifically those instances, on pages where it matters most would be redundant could you? Again, I'm not suggesting it for all media types because I recognize the redundancy of it. But not doing something with a good reason because "it sets a precedant for something bad in the future" (if you chose permit that, mind you) doesn't feel like a good reason not to do it. Does a change like the one I'm suggesting have to apply to every single adaptation, regardless of redundancy?
Another option I could think of would be to go the other way and completely simplify pages down to where the adaptations are the same. I.E. simplify Future Zamasu's entire biography/history in Super down to "Zamasu is Gowasu's apprentice, he betrays Gowasu at the intervening of Goku Black, searches for the Super Dragon Balls to wish for immortality, fights Goku at some point in the future, gets the Mafuba used on him [minding not to specify by whom since that's also a difference between the two adaptations] and then fuses with Goku Black to become Fused Zamasu." That also sounds pretty horrible too though, in my opinion, and would just make those pages incredibly bare. Gildeds (talk) 01:52, October 26, 2018 (UTC)

I hear you that Super anime & manga are more different than some media versions of some DB series, but they are more similar than others. This is not a unique case. A decision like this would inevitably open the door to other adaptions being broken out like this, extremely redundantly. How different or similar is always very subjective—different people will have different opinions. I have some perspective on how changes related to new media impact site formatting on all the existing pages. I’m happy to entertain other solutions. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 22:07, October 27, 2018 (UTC)

Infobox update/revamp

I was going to just add on to what Neffyarious brought up before, which I had missed, but it was back in July so it's probably worth making a newer section.

I'd brought up the problem I had with the character infobox before even that too so I'm not alone but compared to other character infoboxes from other wikis I've been on...the one on here is the worst, it's a complete mess.

Particularly in reference to the Affiliations, there's just an overabundance of stuff on there. Family, counterparts and I guess at a push mentors should be it. I wouldn't even include the best friend to be honest seeing as it'd only be applicable for a few pages. The team mates, henchmen, bosses...they don't need to be there. I'm looking at Oolongs page now and it's got his ex-comrades and Oceanus Shenron because of the wish he made. Its completely unnecessary.

I think we should take a look at some of these more up to date and better organized character infoboxes that these other wikis are using...and just do that.Bullza (talk) 12:45, November 28, 2018 (UTC)

Agreed. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 03:15, November 30, 2018 (UTC)

As with before, I agree, only key relationships are necessary. --Neffyarious (talk) 21:32, December 3, 2018 (UTC)

So what do we do from here because last time we sort of acknowledge the problem and then nothing comes of it. Do we need to change up the infobox to swap the word Affiliations for Relationships? Do we need to go through each and every Infobox and remove certain characters? Are we gonna make any other changes while we're at it?Bullza (talk) 09:11, December 4, 2018 (UTC)

Yeah affiliations should be changed to relationships. I think it may have actually been that way before but someone changed it. --Neffyarious (talk) 11:35, December 4, 2018 (UTC)

Alright, do we want to add or remove anything else? Is there another section that we don't perhaps need like Allegiance? I think the way the Date of Death is done looks a mess as well because it usually always includes the revival dates which then make it too long for one line and it just looks messy, unless we were to just leave off when they were revived.Bullza (talk) 18:21, December 4, 2018 (UTC)

Allegiance is pretty useful I think, but maybe we should find a better way to sort date of death. --Neffyarious (talk) 18:37, December 4, 2018 (UTC)

Should we leave off the date they were revived? If we see there's another date of death then we would know they were revived anyway.Bullza (talk) 21:09, December 5, 2018 (UTC)
Tomorrow I'll make the change from Affiliations to Relationships. So just to make sure we are clear, family, timeline counterparts and mentors are all we're going to include? Are we including students or not?Bullza (talk) 22:01, December 8, 2018 (UTC)

I do like the new infobox, but I'm new to it, so I have a problem. I'm trying to make an edit to some content within the infobox, but I keep making the entire infobox disappear or get out of control, some I'm forced to retract my edit and start again. Is there a way to make an edit in an infobox's category without making it disappear when I finish editing it?RedRock3300 (talk) 09:05, December 19, 2018 (UTC)


We've gotten another case of "canon" being officially referred to. In this case Weekly Jump refers to DBS: Broly as "Toriyama's attempt at adding Broly and Gogeta to the Dragon Ball canon". Perhaps we should consider changing up our canon policy, it seems there is an officially recognized one. --Neffyarious (talk) 12:10, December 7, 2018 (UTC)

Weekly Jump, the manga publisher, actually said something like adding them to the official storyline. Might be a little biased toward manga over other media since they’re the manga publisher. In any case, we have DBS at the highest level of canon already, over movies, so no change is needed. Our system agrees with this statement. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 03:34, December 10, 2018 (UTC)

Separate section for Dragon Ball Heroes

So I'm not proposing this be done now, it's might not be necessary right now, might not be necessary at all yet. This Dragon Ball Heroes at this point has become a sub series in itself, it's got an anime, a manga, a video game, there's a story to it, it has multiple sagas and original characters...and at the moment we keep that in the "Other Dragon Ball stories section" which is fine at the moment.

But this is probably something that's going to continue, maybe for a good while and I feel it could probably end up a bit too significant for it to be where it's currently placed. The section is useful for having the odd game story, OVA, Nekomajin etc but I dunno if eventually it might warrant something a bit more substantial.Bullza (talk) 00:17, January 16, 2019 (UTC)