This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Dragon Ball Wiki:Manual of Style page.
|Archive 1||2008 - 2017|
"Battle of Gods" and "Ressurrection 'F'" in Articles
I noticed while looking at the article for Vegeta that the events of Battle of Gods and Resurrection ‘F’ are listed after Dragon Ball GT. Shouldn't they be included in the Movies section in articles instead? Diamonddeath (talk) 07:34, May 26, 2016 (UTC)
Movie Section and Transition to Arcs
Can we remove the movie section and combine with with the "Biography" section. This wiki doesn't use canon so why separate the movies from the series? I think the "Film appearances" section is useless and can cause confusion. With combining the movie section with the biography section, it could be easier than what it is now. I know some movies happen within some arcs like Dragon Ball Z: The Rebirth of Fusion! Goku and Vegeta so it would be hard now with the the sections are. But another mistake I did months ago was remove the subsections from arc. While I was on the One Piece Wiki, I've learned that those sections are needed especially or longer pages like Goku's page. I also think we should readd subsections and also, transition from saga to arcs. With the movie section, arcs would be better to use than the sagas Funimation created for Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, and Dragon Ball GT because Funimation created more sagas than they should have when promoting these shows. I hope you agree and please, discuss this. Meshack (talk) 10:11, September 20, 2016 (UTC)
- Sagas and arcs can be used interchangeably, but we use sagas since that is what Dragon Ball uses. One Piece having arcs does not matter for us. We separate info by media type for convenience, which makes sense except for manga/anime where the material is largely the same. Video games, card games, movies, and other one-offs have their own stories and therefore do not make sense to merge with the manga/anime as you suggest. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 02:24, September 21, 2016 (UTC)
- I don't see why not. I was only referring to the movies and then you go and mention others I didn't even mention. It shouldn't matter if the stories are different. Dragon Ball does not use sagas. This wiki just chooses to do whatever Funimation does and use sagas rather than arcs. they're not used interchangeably 02:30, September 21, 2016 (UTC)
- the movies should just be in the movie sections and spearated from the sagas. Nikon23 03:03, September 21, 2016 (UTC)
Your justification for merging the movies into the anime is our MoS' stance on canon. This applies to all media; there is nothing special about the movies based on your suggestion. Also. FUNimation is the official, licensed English translation of the Dragon Ball anime, so it makes sense we would use their terminology. Your alternative of using One Piece terms rather than Dragon Ball terms does not make sense when we have the ideal basis already. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 03:17, September 21, 2016 (UTC)
10X, what are you talking about? The terminology is not correct. It doesn't matter if Funimation has the legal rights to the series. Sagas are long events while arcs are shorter ones. The Artificial Humans Arc is not a long event but rather short because the Cell Arc happens right during the end. I don't get why you're so hung up on Funimation but even they get translations wrong even know they "official" Meshack (talk) 18:19, September 25, 2016 (UTC)
- The argument for Funimation is they are official, licensed, and correct. Your argument against them is... well nothing, just you asking us to change it. We will not go against the official, licensed, correct terminology based on nothing. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 02:02, September 26, 2016 (UTC)
Other Dragon Ball stories section
As it stands at the moment The Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans and The Real 4-D are listed under several characters movie appearences. However they are not movies. On this wikis movie page, they are not listed as movies. One is an OVA and the other is an attraction (which it says on the main page). So it doesn't make sense for them to be listed in movie appearences if they aren't acknowledged as being movies.
At the same time there's not much consistency between character pages. Some characters will have some kind of combination of the following sections "Other Dragon Ball manga", "Video Game stories", "OVA's", "Dragon Ball Heroes", "Other Dragon Ball appearances". Some of the actual video game stories will just be in the video game section.
So what I suggest is just making the one section titled "Other Dragon Ball stories" where all these things can go. From what they did in The Real 4D to Xenoverse to Dragon Ball Heroes to Nekomajin and so on. It could all just be grouped up neatly and consistently in multiple sub sections under the one section rather than having multiple ones which are there or not there on other character pages.
I don't think any of our pages use an OVA section, we've always grouped specials and OVAs into the Film appearances section. The video game stories section is uniquely for Video games with original stories, so non-original material is placed into the Video game appearances section.--Neffyarious (talk) 12:23, September 29, 2016 (UTC)
But why are the specials and OVA's grouped in with the films if they aren't considered films? The Real 4D is just a ride attraction but that's counted in with the films but then say the Dream 9 anime special is not.
Goku's page includes a "Other Dragon Ball manga" section and a "Video Game stories" section which includes what he did in Xenoverse. However on Vegeta's page he does not have a Video Game stories section. Piccolo had neither section and instead had his own "Cross Epoch" section and his story in the Hero Mode for Ultimate Tenkaichi was just in the video game section instead. Future Trunks had his own separate section called "Other appearences" which included what he did in Cross Epoch even though in most other character pages that information is placed in the "Appearences in other media" section.
Frieza has a "Other Dragon Ball manga" section which explains what he did in Nekomajin but then further down the page there's a separate section called "Other appearences" which then mentions again his appearance in Nekomajin and Episode of Bardock which should be in the manga section.
And then there's yet another section for "Other media" even though this section and the "Other Dragon Ball appearences" section should just be combined to make the "Appearences in other media" section as is seen on Goku's page.
So there's just no consistency between these pages at all. Different character pages have different sections including different things from one to the other. Bullza (talk) 21:51, September 29, 2016 (UTC)
- I support this, it would make the articles a lot more organized and consistent with each other. I don't really see any cons to implementing this. -- • • 23:41, September 29, 2016 (UTC)
- I too agree with Bullza. 02:49, September 30, 2016 (UTC)
It seems we're in agreement then so tomorrow I'll see about sorting some of the pages out and make them consistent.
As for The Real 4D, I don't know what the definition of a "Film" is but it's certainly different from what we know of being actual films. I'd say it was just an OVA, original video animation myself, like say Epiosde of Bardock. It might confuse readers to say it's another film when it's advertised as an attraction.
When I sort it out I'll put it in the other stories for the time being. If at a later date someone feels differently then they can just copy and paste it into the film appearences section.Bullza (talk) 17:39, October 3, 2016 (UTC)
New Saga Infobox
In the manga volumes and manga chapters part of the new infoboxes should we use the original numbers, the English ones, or both? Or we could do like the Vegeta Saga manga chapters section. Any of these that way it is easier for the readers.
This page seems to be going by the usual 1-42 volume and 1-519 chapter setup.
- I think it's better to mainly use the original Japanese numbers, and maybe use the DBZ manga numbers in parenthesis. 02:52, September 30, 2016 (UTC)
Abilities tabs idea
So at the moment some of the character pages contain a huge wealth of information surrounding a characters abilities (techniques/forms/fusions). It reached a point where separate pages needed to be made listing a characters techniques and between Super and all the games it's only going to get worse so I thought why not try something like this below as I've seen the idea done on several wikis successfully already.
It would again be a way of making things a bit neater and less cluttered and the techniques on the separate pages could even be brought back to the character page with this method.
As far as I know the tabs don't work with the mobile version but whether the tabs are set or not it doesn't affect the page at all as it's still all listed in order. It'll only really affect the desktop version.
- That format was not compatible with mobile. In fact, I had to delete it in source mode just to post. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 00:20, October 6, 2016 (UTC)
What do you mean? I know the option to swap tabs isn't available on mobile but it should still have the same layout on mobile as before.
When I set them on a test page and checked on mobile it looked the same with and without the tabs in place. I've seen several wikia's use this style so it shouldn't mess anything up drastically.Bullza (talk) 07:18, October 6, 2016 (UTC)
Alright so I just used the Sandbox page to recreate Goku's page but with the tabs in place, here's a link
I then used my mobile to do a side by side comparison of Goku's page as it is now and the Sandbox page with the tabs.
As far as I can tell the only difference between the two versions is the size of the words "Techniques", "Forms and transformations" and "Fusions" for the reason being that with the tabs version those words are in bold which makes them slightly smaller than when you use the == signs at either side of the word.
- It probably depends on the os and browser. We shouldn't make changes that maybe(?) benefit some but break all the articles for others. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 04:13, October 8, 2016 (UTC)
I checked it on Microsoft Edge, Google Chrome, AOL and Opera and it's the same across each version, it worked fine for each of them.
The mobile version doesn't pick up tabs so it just presents it in the same order as if the tabs aren't there.
- The bottom of the page gets cut off. Why do you believe we need tabs? It seems like clutter and an opportunity for confusion. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 19:22, October 8, 2016 (UTC)
I don't recall seeing anything like that, I'll have to have another look. The tabs would be a good idea because it would make the page LESS cluttered.
Instead of scrolling through multiple sections and a ton of text it'd be as easy as clicking on the Abilities section in the contents and then choosing the tab you need to find the information quickly.
A lot of wikis use the tabs and it works well because there's no load times between tabs. I asked Final Chidori before posting this and he seemd to think it was a good idea because it'd make the pages neater. Bullza (talk) 23:14, October 9, 2016 (UTC)
- Yeah, if this works across all browsers and it doesn't affect mobile, it would be a pretty handy thing to have on pages with a ton of info. I'm pretty sure it works on monobook as well, I haven't checked any mobile browsers yet though, if it gets cut off then that's a big problem. -- • • 23:20, October 9, 2016 (UTC)
It's worked on the three desktop browsers I've tried it on without issue. It has also worked on two mobile browsers too.
I just tested it again on mobile, it worked fine on Chrome. When I tested it on Opera Mini everything after the Popular Culture section was cut off...but not for the page I made up, that worked fine, that happened with the main Goku page as it is now.
When I refreshed the page it loaded properly. The page loads in chunks and it looks like it just stopped loading. That wouldn't be a problem with the tabs, it'd be a problem with the page having to load so much information.
- I had the same issue with Puffin. I don't think it's worth discussing whether a functional tab format in articles has advantages if mobile users can't read articles at all that way. It's a trade of extra scrolls where you see everything, vs. button clicks if you happen to know you have to click at all. There are big disadvantages, too big to roll this out at present. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 00:41, October 10, 2016 (UTC)
But if the mobile version looks exactly same regardless of the tabs being there or not then it shouldn't really be a factor. This is mainly a change for the desktop version.
It's going to be an ever increasing amount of extra scrolls. Just in the past week or two about 10 extra sections have been added to the contents and the page because of all the fusions he had in the new 3DS game.
- It doesn't look the same; it broke the article for both of us. Please don't implement a feature that breaks the articles. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 00:02, October 11, 2016 (UTC)
It didn't break the page for me. The page was broken for the Goku page that's already up now and it was a loading issue which was fixed when I reloaded the page.
Wikia has recently been rolling out videos for popular pages on popular wikis in order to generate more ad-revenue. Recently, they've started to work on us.
Some of you may have seen the new video on Kale's page. If not, I'd like to ask you do to so now. It's located at the top of the page, and unless Wikia is doing some a/b testing where it only appears for select users, it should be very hard to miss. Opinions?
Personally, I have multiple complaints.
1) It loads slowly.
2) It auto-plays.
3) It follows the reader's screen as they scroll, which is distracting.
4) It's terribly made and adds nothing to the article. The video is literally our article in a slideshow format with videos, still images, and non-Dragon Ball music playing in the background.
5) It's located at the top of the page, pushing down the rest of the article.
6) There appears to be no way to edit it. What would we do if some of the information in the video is found to be wrong later on?
The fact that Wikia believes such a poorly-made video takes priority over the articles that we all made is insulting. They even slapped their "Fandom" logo at the end of it, as if they're the ones who wrote the information. There appears to be no way to remove it, aside from maybe asking a staff member. I'd definitely like to hear the rest of the wiki's thoughts on this before I do that, though. — • • 14:43, May 28, 2017 (UTC)
I think the video on Kale's page is okay so far. It's informative and decent, but I can't speak for everyone who'll find the videos very annoying. I kind of don't mind it if it were to be on every article. Gojiran (talk) 15:11, May 28, 2017 (UTC)
My opinion is that it could really hurt the quality of the wiki and slow down your site. It's already bad that there is thousands of images on the site with galleries that include menial images. Every complaint that I would have is shared by Chidori. --New World God 15:33, May 28, 2017 (UTC)
Personally I don't like it too much. I'm part of the administration at the Spanish wiki and we refused but they are going to insert the videos anyways. If someone wants to know how they will implement them check it here: http://es.dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Hilo:167863#8 (use Google Translate or something, but it's very important to know how they are going to operate).
17:05, May 28, 2017 (UTC)
- I think the first thing to do is ask these questions to Springteufel since they reached out as a contact for us about the new videos. I checked out the Kale article with two browsers. The first didn't show the video. The second dragged it along the top of my window as I scrolled, but didn't auto-play and I could dismiss the box by clicking an x. I share your concern about the info changing over time... keeping the video up-to-date would require someone doing frequent updates, since her character is brand new and the info will definitely change often. It was cool to see some animated clips, especially having Broly power-up as a comparison. This discussion is good feedback for staff, but let's approach this in a helpful way not a confrontational one. They "keep the lights on" so to speak. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 19:53, May 28, 2017 (UTC)
Had a look, I think the videos are super pointless; all the info in the video can simply be found by looking on the page and the video itself was not that great - with spelling errors and incorrect information. The only way I would accept this would be if videos were optional and we were the ones to make them.--Neffyarious (talk) 03:05, May 29, 2017 (UTC)
- I don't like them. I'd be okay if the video's quality was better, but it looks like a slideshow made on moviemaker that some grade schooler made. Like come on! Fandom has had way better videos than that. I also agree that it's annoying how they've just taken info from articles our community wrote up and selling it off as Fandom writing them. --Stryzzar (talk) 11:48, June 1, 2017
@Gojiran - That's precisely what I'm worried about. They seem very easy to make, so I wouldn't be surprised if Wikia made a bunch more and started sticking them on our more popular articles. If the Dragon Ball franchise was dead that would be fine, but it's constantly growing and the info will need constant updating which I very much doubt the staff is willing to do.
@NWG - Fantastic point. Some of our articles already load slowly because of the amount of images and text we have on them. Adding a video on top of that does not seem like a good idea.
@YonedgeHP - It's extremely worrying that they're not listening to the community. The staff member in the thread you linked seemed to imply that the community has to approve the video before Wikia sticks it into the article, but as far as I know we were never offered to review it.
@10X - I apologize if I'm coming off as confrontational, I'm just mildly annoyed they put an uneditable, unremovable video on one of our trending articles without telling anyone or asking the community first. If staff members frequently updated every video with new clips and information I'd be a bit more open to the idea of having these, but as of now there's no guarantee they'll do that or even do it correctly. These videos could potentially misinform tons of people who watch them and it would be completely out of the community's control.
@Neffyarious - Fully agree. If we could turn this off I'd be fine with it. These videos could be really cool on some wikis, just not this one.
@Stryzzar - I'm definitely not a fan of the slideshow format either. The sentences cutting off are very annoying as well.
Does anyone else want to share their opinion? So far it seems like most of us either don't care or are in favor of them being removed. We shouldn't approach Wikia until we reach a consensus. — • • 20:28, June 1, 2017 (UTC)
I agree they shouldn't be on there for all the reasons already stated and to me it is just looks like a dumb idea.
I think that it's absolutely pointless and a bit pedantic, but from a monetary viewpoint, videos make sense. However, as they currently stand there are a lot of pitfalls. I think the best course of action from staff would be to have the videos be created by users. Now, I realixe everyone isn't a video editing savant, but if every video were to follow a simple template then all you'd have to do is plug info and pictures in to the slideshow. I don't think every user should have this power, perhaps only admins or appointed video editors should be able to change the video content, but I could see the videos going from a detriment to a neutral force fairly easily. JanembaFreak97 04:45, June 2, 2017 (UTC)
- Hi all, sorry for the delay in replying here. I know you've been waiting for a response for awhile. To address the major concerns raised here:
- Speed. That will depend on the user's connection, of course, as will any video player online. In the time since you've posted these concerns, however, we've also significantly reduced the number of advertisements on pages that have featured Wiki Videos on them. That improves the overall page load speed and has helped with the loading of the video player, since overall there are less items to load on the page.
- Auto-play. Yes, the auto-play (without auto-sound) factor is what has allowed us to achieve one of the main goals of Wiki Modernization: ad reduction. Without auto-play, which includes valuable auto-playing pre-roll ads in front of the videos, we would not be able to reduce the number of ads across the site. We have already rolled out reduced advertising on pages with Wiki Videos, and will soon be rolling out reduced advertising on non-Wiki Video pages. That improves overall page performance on all FANDOM wikis.
- Scrolling player. This has become standard practice online so users can watch a video and read at the same time. This gives users more choices for how they want to consume content. As part of that, you can dismiss the scrolling video at any time.
- Location. We tested several different placements, big and small, at different parts of the page. This is the version that readers engaged with the most and thus is the one we moved ahead with. This was the first thing we tested before moving ahead with further development of Wiki Videos, to ensure we knew what the best placement for them was.
- Editing. If there's incorrect information, you can email us and we will fix it. We don't want information to be incorrect either.
- In regards to the video on the Kale page, I agree that it's not of sufficient quality. That video was made very early in our video creation process, before the creation of the Wiki Video team (which I lead), using a third party software that we no longer utilize for Wiki Videos. We can replace that video in the future, and future Dragonball videos will be of higher quality. You can see our two latest Dragonball videos, which just went live, on Caulifla and Tournament of Power.
- I hope this has helped address some of your concerns. If you have any additional feedback for these Wiki Videos, the best method for contacting me (since I won't get an alert on this page) is via email at Special:Contact. Thanks! - Brandon Rhea(talk) 18:42, July 18, 2017 (UTC)
DBS "In the anime/in the manga" subheadings
Alright, posting here as requested. So with Dragon Ball Super, the anime and manga versions are vastly different compared to DB and DBZ, to the point where quite often two different versions need to be listed on articles. This has resulted in a lot of repetitive "In the anime... [this happened]" while the same event of the manga version has another section for "In the manga..." Overall resulting in "in the anime" and "in the manga" being repeated on an article several times.
What I'm proposing is to split up the anime and manga sections into two, rather than listing the same phrases over and over, like so:
===Dragon Ball Super===
====Future Trunks Saga====
It looks neater and honestly easier to read since readers won't have to jump back and forth between anime and manga storylines when reading the article. I understand there would be a fair bit of clean up required for this, so at this point would just want some feedback. --Stryzzar (talk) 04:04, June 21, 2017
Hello, I am here to discuss an issue that this wiki doesn't deal with properly, the differenciation of two different, long material. The differences in the Anime and Manga are examples of that, and I have and idea.....well, it's not really my idea. A few months ago, I found this project in this wiki; a work in progress, that had the Goku page, but had those slide thingies similar to what Arrowverse Wiki does with their personality sections. They divide them based on the different sections that are not nessessary to take up too much space, and compresses it down to sections, one displaying and others not. Click one of them and it pops up the information from the one of the ones hidden, allowing more organization and less space taken up, making it more attractive. Whoever is making this project, not to look like I'm impatient, but if you coincidentally come up here and look at what I'm saying, tell me: How's it going with it? Are you finished, or is it still needing work? Because whatever you're doing can change a lot of things for the better in this wiki and thank you.</p>
- Please refer to the section above. — • • 22:12, June 21, 2017 (UTC)
Please read Archive 1 sections 60 and 62 to brush up on a few reasons why this suggestion is a bad idea. TLDR: all the articles get 3 times as long with most of the info being redundant. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 03:20, June 23, 2017 (UTC)
- Yeah, well you tell that to the people who think that we don't explain anything as much as we should, or create unnessessary pages just for the sake of making pages. Seriously, the whole thing in the Future Trunks Saga is all inconsistant, all unorganized, and the anime info is wayyyyyy longer than the manga's. If we use the sliders, then we would shorten info to an extent, and if we can tell people to stop adding reduntant info when we get this out, maybe that would help a little. But yeah, it would change a lot because we explain everything too little on some areas, and is now unorganized. I know this is a wiki, which technically means "short" but seriously, a lot of wikis break that rule and have a lot of info and they are doing just fine. But I doubt it would get to that. Though, like some people it's better to overpack than to underpack. SuperBen 1000000 (talk) 04:10, June 23, 2017 (UTC)
I don't think it's comparable to before, I can understand not having both the movie and anime version because theyre both very much the same. Even for the Universe 6 saga version of the anime and manga, it's largely the same. That's not true at all for the anime and manga though anymore, they are completely different altogether. There are entire events that are in one version and not the other and it's making it a mess to just say "in the manga version" and then have a whole paragraph of an explanation over and over again. It's already making the page long as it is but it just looks like a complete mess.Bullza (talk) 17:05, June 23, 2017 (UTC)
- I'm having trouble making coherent sense of what you're implying here. You know it's short, but it's not enough now, or maybe too much, so let's triple everything and make it longer and hide some? And you know it's bad but some other people do a bad job so we should too? Anime and manga have always had differences, Super is not unique. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 01:05, June 24, 2017 (UTC)
- No, that's what I'm saying. I'm saying that everything is unorganized, the manga stuff from the Future Trunks Saga is too short, the anime stuff is dominating the manga stuff on info, and everything is unorganized. Some wikis are successful using other, what you would call, "redundant" approaches. Wikis nowadays aren't really short nowadays, some words are used differently in other Countries or states, Hawaii is no exception. The reaon why I put "......a lot of wikis break that rule and have a lot of info and they are doing just fine." was because I wanted to state some evidence that you don't have to worry about that. And like I said before, I doubt that would happen. And if it does, we do need a lot of info anyway for the manga, and having reduntant info is something we have to see for ourselves later.......And DB Super might not be unique to you, but it's difference between the anime and manga is significant enough for us to put "In the anime..." and "In the manga....." and it's starting to become a problem. We need a solution or else things will get worse. SuperBen 1000000 (talk) 01:46, June 24, 2017 (UTC)
Read the MoS. No one should be putting "in the anime" or "in the manga", they should be using reference notes which don't take up much space at all. I completely reject your desire to make articles as long as possible and ignore Wikia's mission statement. We are a Wiki, we should act like it. Your argument that there are bad Wikis so we should give up too is invalid. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 01:59, June 24, 2017 (UTC)
- Everyone has been told. After making 1 edit here, an automated message is left on each new user's talk page telling them to read the Manual of Style, and to ask an admin (it defaults to whichever admin edited most recently) for help if they need it. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 02:03, June 24, 2017 (UTC)
I'll try and simplify it. The manga and anime have differences, correct. For Super the manga and anime also have differences however up to the Universe 6 saga the differences were negligible so it wasn't a problem to leave an extra line or two to specify the difference.
That is no longer the case at all though with the Future Trunks saga. The manga is completely different from the anime entirely. It's now that different that a couple extra lines just doesn't cut it, a separate section for the manga version is warranted. This is where the tabbers come into it because you could switch between the anime and manga version in the biography.
I didn't say anything about other people. It's not an issue that other similar wikis would have. This is just a way to make things neater, simpler, less repetitive and more detailed which should be a good thing.Bullza (talk) 02:14, June 24, 2017 (UTC)
- You're suggesting more buttons a user needs to click, more text they need to read, and having 95% repeated info in successive article sections. Your proposal, which again has already been exhaustively discussed in this article's archive, would make the articles messier, more complicated and harder to use, and completely repetitive. Those are all bad things. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 02:19, June 25, 2017 (UTC)
I think we should start classifying Dragon Ball canon by continuities, because with the various continuity errors and constant reclassification of what's canon and what's not every time something new is released is ridiculous. It could be handled the way Yugioh Wiki handles the various continuities, or at least make tabs for conflicting information. Here's some examples of how I envision the article option:
Goku (Manga) would cover Goku's appearances in manga versions of DB, DBZ and DBS, as well as information that applies only to Goku in the Manga.
Goku (Anime) would cover the Goku that appeared in Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, and Dragon Ball GT Animes, as well as information that only applies to this version of Goku.
Goku (Super) would cover the Goku that appeared in Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z Kai, and Dragon Ball Super Animes, as well as information that only applies to this version of Goku.
So we would have to create an entire different page for GT's Goku for example? No, please no.20:46, July 8, 2017 (UTC)
Didn't this idea come up in a forum somewhere? Ohhhhh yes it has. And now, I'm going to say what I said in there: NO...... F**K NO! Seriously, if we are doing pages for the same people based on timelines, then we should have one for the movies too, because those are also conflicting, and video games. So we're going to have like Beerus (Movie) and Beerus (Anime) that's going to be EXACTLY THE SAME!!!!! Except Beerus (Movie) is going to have a lot less info that is already covered in his anime page. And lemme guess, we're going to create one for Goku's other alternate timeline counterparts or cover Future Trunks/Xeno Trunks in Video Games that has info again, ALREADY STATED IN THE ANIME PAGE!!!!! As you may see, this wiki has problems with having pages that are unnessessary, or don't cover as much as they should. This would make the problem worse. We had better ideas, PLEASE OH PLEASE REFER TO THE D**M SECTION RIGHT ABOVE YOURS!!!!!!! SuperBen 1000000 (talk) 21:49, July 8, 2017 (UTC)
I agree with what you said at the last sentence, the English DB Wiki has a lot of unnecessary pages with only 2 lines of text, or articles of unnamed future characters from the tournament, not only that, but people in this wiki has a bad habit of creating an article without information (no actual information, no template, no categories, no images, no reference, just a bit of text), so in the next hours/days, people put more information, but the author of the article didn't do antything. (http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Commeson?oldid=1462797 see this as an example of what I'm saying). I'm part of the administration at the Spanish wiki and when someone do something like this we delete the page, and if people does it in repeated occasions we block them. 21:59, July 8, 2017 (UTC)
- "constant reclassification of what's canon and what's not every time something new is released..." Well I can tell from this that not only are you unfamiliar with this site and our articles, but you have not even read the MoS which you are currently editing the talk page of. Newcomers are always welcome, but please at least familiarize yourself with a Wiki before proposing changes. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 00:44, July 15, 2017 (UTC)
Considering erasure and death as different things
As you know, in the dragon ball Universe, a killed character goes to the afterworld of his Universe. Does death are rightly recorded with the corresponding death of the character's page
But in Dragon Ball Super, a new concept of erasure as been introduced. Those destroyed by destruction energy or erased by Zeno don't go to the after world. They cease to exist. So they are not dead by dragon ball standards, it's different.
Should we categorize the victims of Hakai and Erasure has "ceased to exist" instead of dead? If so, should we not change "date of death" for them as "date of erasure"?
I agree with Zen-Oh's Erase technique, but Hakai I'm a little skeptical about. Being erased, and being killed has always been consider two separate things in almost all forms of fiction.--Made up Character Wiki Admin Jack Jackson Things I do [mod] 02:11, July 10, 2017 (UTC)
- Will we consider this the same as when a dead person (halo) is killed? -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 00:46, July 15, 2017 (UTC)
- Well... I think yes. Their spirit cease to exist, so it would be a logical thing. As far as we know, there is no "other other" world Blastheaven (talk) 22:32, July 18, 2017 (UTC)
- I think what we have is ok. Because it is considered the same thing. Death will always be death, no matter in what shape or form. That, or we can change it and put a status instead. SuperBen 1000000 (talk) 22:35, July 18, 2017 (UTC)
- In any other anime or manga, i would agree with you. But in Dragon Ball, when a character is "just" dead, he can be revived any time, and even visited by some living characters. In short, being kill in dragon ball is just being sent to the character's universe otherworld. But being erased is like true death, the character doesn't exist anywere anymore. Blastheaven (talk) 15:37, July 20, 2017 (UTC)
- Oh, and something we should not forgot! Dead characters from erased universes are technically erased too, because when a universe get erased by Zen-Oh, so does this universe's other world. So technically, all characters from future Trunk's timeline, except for Trunks and Mai, have been erased by Zen-Oh. Blastheaven (talk) 11:52, July 30, 2017 (UTC)
Updating the Character Infoboxes
Bringing this here on Neffaryious' suggestion. The character Infoboxes that we have now are not so great, it's a bit of a mess and just a long sheet of white.
I took a look on other wikia's and they generally have better character Infoboxes. I just think the one we have is just kinda old and plain now so it could use sprucing up while some other things are being updated too.
This is one that I think looks pretty good, well presented and easy to read. I made a similar one as an example which you could look at here.
Certainly not finished because I'd like to change the colours up on it, the dark blue and grey is kinda ugly, a brighter orange would be more visually striking I think.
I also think having the Affiliations just include relatives would be far better. As it stands now people are including relatives, friends, mentors, bosses, fusees, future counterpart parts, team mates etc and it's a little unnecessary.Bullza (talk) 17:20, July 31, 2017 (UTC)
- Please make an effort to check new Wiki formatting concepts on multiple browsers and Wikia views. For example on Fairy Tale Wiki, my desktop browser using Monobook shows their infobox as white text on a white background. It's unreadable. Black text on white background is the easiest to read. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 03:03, August 1, 2017 (UTC)
Well I hadn't checked other formats yet. This was just to garner a reaction and see if people were willing to make the update at all first. If it was agreed upon we'd make sure it all worked just fine across all formats, naturally.
Fixing the colors for the text wouldn't be a problem, for the Fairy Tail wiki it was the design itself that I was pointing out. It's better presented because it's more easily divided into sections with just straight to the point information.Bullza (talk) 10:57, August 1, 2017 (UTC)
- Looks almost exactly the same to me, except you removed the relatives. Could you provide a screenshot of what you're seeing before and after so we can see why you like it better? -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 03:14, August 2, 2017 (UTC)
Well I can't screenshot the whole thing because the infobox is longer than the screen can capture but this is what Natsu's character infobox looks on the Desktop version.
It has the section headers so it's more easily divided under sections like Names, Affiliations, Debuts etc. It has the solid red colours for the sections too but yeah it does have the white text there.
That's the mockup that I made as an example which has similar section headers. You can't see it on that screenshot but I replaced Affiliations with Relatives because like I said people are adding too much there now, over time people have added fusee's and teammates and more.
Like the Natsu one I had a section for debuts where it included his manga/anime/film and game debuts.
The section headers are a pale grey colour though and I don't know how to change that but I'd like to make it an orange colour like how Natsu's is red except have the black text so it remained readable on mobile versions.
And that's what we have now, it's just pretty plain because it's probably not been changed in so long. There's no section headers either. So yeah I think it could do with a bit of an update, make it a bit more presentable and colourful.Bullza (talk) 12:55, August 2, 2017 (UTC)
I just took a look out of curiosity, the character infobox we have currently has been in place for over 10 years now. It's older than most other wikia's in general. So yeah it is a bit outdated now and I don't think an update after such a long time would really hurt.
As for the colours, I looked up on it and that isn't something that I could change myself. I know it'd be a big change, it'd require a few people to make some changes and we'd have to check it works and all that but it shouldn't be too much of an effort.Bullza (talk) 13:13, August 2, 2017 (UTC)
- I don't see a problem with a feature being in use with a long time, if it is a good feature. That said, did you say you wanted to remove clutter or that you want to add more lines to the infobox like in that template with the blocks? -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 23:22, August 2, 2017 (UTC)
Both really. I'd mean to add in some lines (or section headers) to make it more organised so that information was grouped up and then to swap out Affiliations for just Relatives so it only included immediate family and not everyone else which would reduce a lot of the clutter, for example Vegeta's affiliations alone makes up half his entire character Infobox.
Then in the space that that would save I'd like to add in lines for what movie and game that character debuted in alongside the anime and manga debuts, all of which would be under the debut section header.
- I don't think we could because when I go on Luffy's page on my mobile I can't switch between tabs. I can only see the information on that first page, I can't see the abilities or the history or the others. Can you?Bullza (talk) 19:08, August 3, 2017 (UTC)
Manga and anime debuts actually introduce new characters. Video game and movie debuts don't do that. I'm concerned that removing affiliations is going to be buried in this formatting thread and we need more opinions. A lot of people worked hard on those over the years. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 02:43, August 4, 2017 (UTC)
When I say Video Game and Movie debuts I just mean it would list the Game and Movie that they were first in. So for Goku it'd be Curse of the Blood Rubies, for Piccolo it'd be Dead Zone, for Vegeta it'd be Return of Cooler etc.
We wouldn't be removing Affiliations entirely, we'd just be changing the name and then removing some of the names listed on it so it wasn't so cluttered. Which would be an easy thing to do. The Team mates which have been added to Affiliations now we're only added just a couple weeks ago. At one point it did just include family members but then people just kept adding more and more stuff to it because Affiliations is just a broad term.Bullza (talk) 13:08, August 4, 2017 (UTC)
- So there are at least 4 separate issues here. First, some people are adding affiliations you find useless; this can be resolved by you undoing their edit. Second, you want to add in the first movie or game a character was in, which I find useless because movies are anime and we already have an anime debut entry, plus there are extremely few characters who premier in games--which game they were in first doesn't really matter. Third, you want to add more text to the infobox, but that just seems like more clutter without adding any extra info. Fourth, you want to recolor the infoboxes, but you are still working out a final design. My advice is undo bad edits as usual, accept that first video game appearance and infobox subtitles are just clutter, and focus on testing your infobox colors with multiple browsers and skins. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 04:31, August 5, 2017 (UTC)
To address each issue.
1. If I start removing affiliations that I just happen to find useless people will just add it back in. That would still need to be renamed to Relatives so that people didn't add those unnecessary affiliations back again in the future.
2. It's not really something important, it was just extra information that would have been in the space that removing all the extra affiliations would save. If you look at Beerus' page he has his movie, anime and manga debut listed already and so does Whis.
3. Well the other debuts would have been the extra information. The extra text was just to place the different information under specific headings. I had about five different headings for example, but with all the extra affiliations taken out it would still overall be a shorter more compact infobox.
4. Well am I still working on it but the the coloring is a problem. Where the text above the character names is currently a dark blue, well I don't know how to change that nor do I know if it would let me anyway. I also don't know how to make the one half orange and the other half white like how it is on Natsu's (but red).Bullza (talk) 13:55, August 5, 2017 (UTC)
Updating the Races Infoboxes
If the character infoboxes are ever completed, the infoboxes for the races need to be updated next as well. I'm trying to find a good example on other wikas that we could use here. DragonEmeperor (talk) 02:28, August 8, 2017 (UTC)