tI believe that Vegeta can go to ssj4 on his own when his tail grow back naturally.I think that Bulma said to baby Vegeta that the blutz waves will turn him in ssj4 even without a tail.I believe that the blutz-machine gives a large amount of blutz waves and gives vegeta's tail back only for a short time.After the first time his tail will be able to grow back again naturally after some time.Otherwise why whould go leave Vegeta protector of the earth if he wasn't strong enough. it is because once u acheive a ssj level u can go 2 the form without requirements u only nrequried for the first time u use this is even stated does goku still have 2 get angry 2 go 2 ssj no he does not see the requirements are only requried the first meaning vegta can go ssj4 without a tail.
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[[Category:{{{1}}}|Can Vegeta become a ssj4 on his own]]
yep
no he can not[]
you know why because gt is fake it is not real and go back to the original db when goku was a kid kami got rid of hi tail never to grow back again and now goku gets turned into a kid and they trie to oull his tail out
NOT REAL
probably[]
I think he'd be able to, since in DBZ his SSJ2 was comparable to Goku's, and it's never said that SSJ3 is a prereq for SSJ4. So in GT Vegeta could probably handle the transformation on his own if he had a tail. btw there was already a thread on this recently http://dragonball.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Vegeta_SSJ4%3F_Could_it_happen,_if_he%27s_lacking_Bulma%27s_device%3F&t=20110904191439 Janemba4eva 00:00, September 6, 2011 (UTC)
Nope[]
No, Vegeta is uncapable of being able to become SS4. He had to undergo immense training with Bulma and he cant do it by choice like Goku can.
@Guy Above me - You're terribly wrong. The only reason he couldn't transform was because he didn't have a tail, and even Bulma said that the Blitz Machines' function was to transform him without the need of a tail, and that it didn't have anything to do with strength.
since when did Vegeta have immense training with Bulma? the only reason he had to use the Blutz wave was to grow his tail and because they didnt have time for him to pull it out with plyers (if thats even possible since it was cut). if Vegeta never got his tail cut off, and he kept it since GT, then yes he could easily become a SSJ4, because he can control the Oozaru form as weve seen previously
Vegeta can go ssj4 without a tail proof[]
it was stated that u only need the requirements for any ssj the first time. does goku still have 2 get anger 2 go 2 ssj no he does not same with vegeta ssj 4 u only need requriements the first time i even read it some were. beside it is possblally in gt after he reveted back from ssj 4 to normaal that his tail went in pants and vegeta forgot 2 take it
Idiot. This is before he bace a SS4.
Like I said in the previous thread, I doubt it. Bultz waves grant energy as well. We can see it when Bulma replenished Baby Oozaru. Or we assume, that any SSJ with a tail can go SSJ4, like, for example, chibi Trunks (if he hadn't his tail cutted off). The point is, I highly doubt Vegeta can go golden ape without those waves, let alone pack it into SSJ4 form. I know you ppl like Vegeta, I like him myself, but I think that natural limit for Vegeta is SSJ2. It has to stop somewhere. Goku's the most powerful being in the universe, he's the one.
So I watched DB GT 55 episode again. Bulma clearly said, that AFTER he's turned into ape AND THEN receive enough blutz waves, he should be able to transform (it means that blutz waves provide energy as well). She also stated, that he's resilent enough to transform because he's stronger now (Baby couldn't, because he was weaker). So it seems you HAVE TO be strong enough to turn SSJ4, the tail and SSJ just aren't enough.
So:
1. You have to be resilent enough to transform.
2. Blutz waves makes you even stronger.
3. Then and only then you can transform into SSJ4.
In other words, even if Vegeta had a tail, he could never become SSJ4 on his own (I believe he can't go beyond SSJ2, it's his limit, so even if he trains, he gets nothing, but it's only my humble opinion - but we are talking about Vegeta from the last episode of DB GT), because he's lacking the strength that blutz waves supply. His body is able to contain such energy, but he cannot produce it by himself. As we all know, there's a difference between ability to produce specific amount of energy and being able to contain it. There's a lot of situations when characters from DB gain extra energy from outside sources like Goku receiving power from the other sayians and thus going beyond his normal power level. Case closed.
ut wrong baby could not turn ssj4 4 because the user has 2 be in control vegeta had 2 be in control go ssj4 thats why baby could not.
Doesn't bluts waves regrow your tail? Besides, Veggie was stronger than ssj kid goku. As I said in another thtead,.SSJ3 & SSJ4s Power gap isn't that large. Veggie never reached 3 and Goku got his adult body back. If kid Goku can 1st time it, then Veggie can too.
Not only cause tail regrow but also gain extra energy. Bulma replenished Baby Oozaru power with them, when he was lying on the ground, almost dead. Moreover, those waves are 1000 stronger than natural blutz waves that come from the moon.
Couldn't Veggie just sit in front of the moon ( or earth)? What would an eclipse do?
Vegeta's tail may just regrow post GT. If the fake waves are 1000 stronger than real ones, he would have to sit there for a long time. ~Raiden~
There's a dialogue between Goku and Vegeta after Vegeta has returned to his base form. Goku asked Vegeta why can't he go SSJ4 without Bulma's device and that pissed off Vegeta. So no, he can't go SSJ4 without artificial blutz waves. Moreover, in the last battle against omega shenron, Vegeta went SSJ2, not SSJ4. I'm sure he would, if he could.
As you can see, there are many clues that Vegeta cannot turn into SSJ4 without Bulma's help and there isn't A SINGLE ONE, that proves Vegeta's ability to achive this form. Sorry guys.
Vegeta only needed the moon and the machine to grow back his tail to become SSJ4. Since Vegeta has already achieved a SSJ2, the was enough energy he needed to transform into a SSJ4. But both ways, whether your argument is that Vegeta can/can't transform without the machine, you are not going to find clear evidence to prove either theory right or wrong. GT is crap and non cannon, so none of this matters anyway.
DUDE![]
stupids *-.- they clearly said in dragon ball gt that only the sayains that can control their anger and that things when they go in to Golden monkey form before become succesfully a super sayain 4. and vegeta always have a lil bad in his heart, so its o
Yes he can[]
i personally think he can and in db heroes he can go ssj4 naturally and im pretty sure after GT he trains and eventually is able to go ssj4 on his own[]
I'm sure that he can do it on his own at some point. It was always like that, that he was a little behind Goku. So it's just a matter of time in my opinion.