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Forum → Can we stop asking if other fighters could beat the Z-fighters... they can't.

[[Category:{{{1}}}|Can we stop asking if other fighters could beat the Z-fighters... they can't.]]

If we're talking real fight with anyone else in all of fiction, no one would touch most of the fighters in DBZ. I'd go as far to argue that even fighters like raditz could probly beat 99% of fighters from all the other shows. Superman? Is that a joke? Nappa would poop on superman. The fighters in DBZ are easily the stongest people in all of fiction. No one else could even look at a super saiyan, let alone anythign above that.

And take this into account, I am not including all the other bull crap powers like being half dead and all mind-bending and garbage liek that. I'm not a nerd and I don't watch really any other anime besides DBZ, because all the other stuff is pretty stupid. In a pound for pound fight..... none of these characters from that crap liek "Bleach" or whatever could touch Goku, or anyone for that matter.

THANKS!

Okay..so seeing waaay to much bs...batman?!zoro??!compairing against base goku?? Speed:"he's faster then light" piccolo to RADITZ Power:frieza blew up planet vegeta with 1 finger at 530,000.

Bullets... Goku took a shot to the head in dragonball and just shook it off Sword... Stopped by gokus finger DBZ is far too overpowered for anyone that can't warp reality. Only reason it's not alway planet destroying is because it would be impossible to finish a fight. If 530,000 can destroy a planet, any attk at even cell's base form can, so while people are saying that the z fighters are weaker than crap like naruto, the z fighters are taking planet destroying hits every battle.

The fact you just admitted you don't watch any other anime or anything else basically just crapped all over your argument. If you actually did watch or read other things, you'd see there's a lot more power out there that could kill the majority of the Z cast. The Gurren Laggan for one is light years tall (yes, light years) and can obliterate things out of being so awesome (that's really what it does). Ichigo is a mary sue, so he automatically can't lose if the fight is important. Zoro is strong enough to cut through steel and has probably taken so much abuse in some fights that Goku would rather go back to when he fought Vegeta the first time than go through what he did. Batman is the goddamn Batman. Madara can basically zap anything out of existance, same as Kakashi. Thor is a litteral god (who can't die, unlike Dragon World gods). If Hulk gets mad enough, he could probably get into a brute force fight with Gogeta (not to mention he's basically immortal with his regeneration and extremely tough hide). Alucard is basically the devil and has two guns with exploding bullets that stop you from regenerating (so might as well not even bring Sensus to the battle). Just a few examples for you. --DARK 21:28, July 2, 2011 (UTC)

One.... no, you fail. Two, wow your a nerd. And three..... oh wait, no you fail. You just listed crap about devils and people like thor. Thor? lol Krillin could take thor. I'm talking just straight pound for pound fights. I don't care about these stupid shows that have devils with guns lol.

Sorry. Try again.

Okay, then no ki powers for them. So, no flying, no regeneration, no energy blasts, no telepathy, etc. Gurren Laggan...it's still a huge ass robot. Ichigo still has plot armor, and that's not really a power (just bad writing). Zoro doesn't have any special powers (unless you count holding a sword in your mouth a power), he's just strong and refuses to die. Batman is still the goddamn Batman, 'nuf said. Naruto characters are weak. Thor is still a god, and he's got super strength and a cool hammer. Hulk is still Hulk. Alucard can rip a man's head off with no effort, so just on brute force he's already up there (that's, place your hand on the top of their head and pull), plus he can just bite them in the neck, and he still has guns.

If you don't expect some sort of rebutle to your factually flawed argument, don't post it. --DARK 04:35, July 3, 2011 (UTC)

No Edit

Because they make for interesting discussion. And I agree with the previous posts. The DBZ characters are exceptionally powerful in fiction, but since you admit that they are the only ones you are familiar with, you don't have much right to say that nobody from any other series could beat them. Pre-crisis Superman vs Goku: Superman wins. And also, what sense does it make to dismiss special powers like mind bending? In that case, we should dismiss all DBZ energy blasts and such. Janemba4eva 11:39, July 3, 2011 (UTC)

I'll admit there are some flaws to my argument, but did you really try to say BATMAN could beat a Z-fighter.... LOL he's a human with gadgets..... Dragon Ball goku would punch threw his chest in one hit.....

And zoro? lol he's a human who is decent with a sword.... like really? Come on now. I'm a faggot.

Batman was a joke... even though he'd more than likely figure something out to win. Zoro isn't a normal human; normal humans don't cut through steel, or run increadibly fast, or lift buildings, or take the kind of damage we've only seen happen to someone fighting Broly before then and live. --DARK 15:28, July 3, 2011 (UTC)

Dude i'm sorry.... but if your trying to give an argument that batman and zoro could compete with goku or vegeta..... your on crack lol. Raditz would kill batman and zoro without breaking a sweat. I'm a faggot.

And i don't mean take special powers away like ki blasts, teleporting, flying, etc. I'm talking about this reality-bending/light years tall guys and all that crap. Obviously that's different. I'm just talking about a straight up fight. If you threw any other character in fiction and made them proportional to goku's size and they had a fight in the world martial arts tournament.... I would love to see him be beaten, because I don't it. I'm not talking about these stupid ridiculous nerd shows with 235253 different dimensions and devil's with regeneration stopping guns and crap. That's not cool and for 500 pound losers to play video games with lol. I'm talking about a straight up fight, that's it. Are we on the same page now? I'm a faggot. I'd love to see someone take a super saiyan in a straight up fight.

goku at his strongest shown in base was barely able to lift 40 tons. any character in any series capable of lifting more than 40 tons is stronger than base buu arc goku. ssj gohan in the buu arc was capable of flying 1,800 miles per hour. any character in any series that can travel at more than 1,800 miles per hour is faster than ssj gohan. super perfect cell was able to create a blast with enough power to destroy the entire solar system, if it was used in that way. any character able to destroy anything larger than a solar system is more powerful than super perfect cell, who is stronger than any unfused ssj shown in the series, although possibly outclassed by some of the ssj that aren't shown (post z sword gohan, end of z goku or vegeta). so, pre- crisis superman was able to move planets, and fly faster than light. galactus can destroy universes. in general fiction, lifting 40 tons, flying 1,800 miles per hour, and destroying single solar systems, I'm a faggot. while impressive, are hardly unsurpassable feats.

You do realize that I'm a faggot.81.98.90.163 16:58, July 3, 2011 (UTC)

I just explained why Zoro has a good chance to beat him, but you've got you head up your ass sniffing your own farts and not paying attention and call anyone a "nerd" when they prove you wrong. Batman is, once again, the goddamn Batman, and that's all you really need to know. A "nerd" would know what I'm talking about here. Kenshiro from Fist of the North Star can explode peoples' brain with a touch (that's a fighting move), so him vs Goku goes like this:

Goku: I'm a faggot.

I'm a faggot.

Ken: I'm a faggot.

I'm a faggot.

I'm a faggot.

Really? Come on. Edit

You are asking people who's stronger, and at the same time you are trying to set up rules about what the opponent can or can't do. And on top of that, you are rejecting most arguments and ignoring people who have a decent comeback that you can't counter. The fact that you only watch one show limit's your knowledge, and because you watch that show, you are pretty much considered a nerd. Which isn't bad by the way, its just a retarded generalization that people have made up to make themselves feel better, something which you are doing now. Trying to find a 500lb nerd would be a tough challenge, considering that it rarely happens. DBZ is pretty uber, but there are stronger as before mentioned. If you cannot accept that anything is stronger, then that's fine I guess. Just don't go around parading that *insert something here* is better than *insert other thing here*, because you degenerated yourself to a fanboy, nothing more.

Really? Edit

I understand that there are characters that are stronger than the Z-Warriors, and Saiyans in general, but some of the examples are just BS:

While Tengen Toppa Gurren Laggan, and its Super Form, is much more stronger than Goku, TTGL is a combination of MANY characters using their Spiral Energy at max. Put them one on one against Goku to see if they can.

I'ma do a Broly Rocks impression while I answer these since it's most efficiant. Your argument is the same as with Goku using the Spirit Bomn; take the other energies away and what's he got left for it? Nothing besides himself.

No One Piece Character is stronger than post-Frieza Dragon Ball Z Characters. You say Zoro is strong because he can cut through metal? DBZ also have a character with a sword, and that is Future Trunks. He, in his Super Saiyan form, and not fighting at his max, cut through Mecha Frieza, who has in his body metal plates (And of Alien origin noneless) like it was butter... several times, with ease. This Trunks is the same that attacked Goku to see his strengh. And what did Goku do? He blocked Trunks' sword attack with his index finger!! Several times!!! And that is just Post-Frieza Pre-Androids Goku. Are you still saying Zoro can beat them?

I know Frieza had some metal in him, but he wasn't pure steel, unlike Mr. 1. As I said before, he can also lift buildings (sort of like things the Z-Fighters do), trains with a giant metal pole with metal rings roughly the height of his body (about 4 or 5 of them at a time), and let's not forget he took on all of Luffy's injuries from the fight with Kuma along with his own and still survived (in a fight where they were all beaten to a bloody pulp and Luffy was near death when he took them on, as was Zoro). I'm not saying it's an automatic win (I'm not saying that about any of these, actually), but to just dissmiss him is foolish.

Batman? Really? The only reason why Batman is in the Justice League is because 1-he is a genius, 2-he has money. He could have all the gadgets of the world (and he has them) but technology has a limit. The only reason why he can kill Superman is because he has Kryptonite with him, which kills Supes. Saiyans has no weakness like that. The only reason why he defeated Darkside in a movie, is because he treatened to blow up Apokolips with bombs. So? If he do the same with the Saiyan's Earth, they could revive it with the Namek Dragon Balls. So, even if he is the Goddamn Batman, he has a limit in what he can do. His Earth Technology has a limit so, unless he has the technology of the gods, he cant beat a Saiyan, or even a Z-Fighter.

Batman is more of a joke, but who knows, maybe he'll have some sort of device to make them grow their tails back and then grab it.

Correct me if I'm wrong in the next one: Kenshiro's blow heads up by pressing certain pressure points in the Human body, not just any part of the body (like the Chakra pressure points of Naruto that Neji use in his fighting style). So, the only way Kenshiro wins against Goku is if Goku let him attack first in those pressure points, which I doubt. And that is assuming Saiyan's body have the same pressure points that a Human body. If thats not the case, Kenshiro's fighting style is useless. (Again, correct me if Im wrong: I know only the basics of that series)

It basically boils down to you tap them on the head. And even then, look at that man; his torso is grossly disproportionate to his legs. Even without that, he's still packing some heavy artillary.

Z-one of Yugioh is a reality warper (sort of), and they have the advantage against other characters, so yea, they can beat Goku. But, if the Kaioshins are with the Saiyans, since the Kaioshins are the gods and could have strange anti-warp powers (just asuming), they could protect the Saiyans of those powers.

That's an assumption, and while it may be fair to imagine this, also take into account the Kais turned out to be veritably useless after a few episodes. And I'm talking more Infinity than Z-one himself, but he could always just go back in time and have them all killed as children (stop Goku from leaving Vegeta when Frieza blow'd it up, etc).

Any Naruto Character is weaker than many Dragon Ball Z characters. Minato could move so fast, but his body is still human. A Ki Blast of any DBZ Character can defeat him. Hehe, even I think that the "Naruto World" is the type of planet that the Saiyans of planet Vegeta conquer in their quest to sold them to other alien races.

Naruto characters are pretty weak in the grand scheme, but that doesn't mean some can't put up a good fight. Madar can zap them into a different dimension (Madara: Say "hi" to Kui for me, bitches!), same as Kakashi. And Minato actually moves at the speed of light if I remember correctly, so Goku would need to do an IT battle like in Return of Cooler to keep up. That's about it for their side though.

Thor is a god... and the Kaioshins are too. What do you say? That the Kaioshins arent strong? They are, its just that, by that time, the Saiyans grew way to strong. This are the Kaioshins that can defeat Frieza in one punch, the same guy who, in his minimum, destroy planets with his finger (and a death ball). I haven't seen Thor doing that or something similar (dont know much about Thor, so if im wrong, sorry.)

Unlike the Z Universe, gods don't die in the Marvel-verse.

Alucard? Really? One must remember that Inmortality =/= Strenght. He can be inmortal, like Garlic Junior, but he can still be beaten. Goku would just Kamehame Ha-Him toward the Sun and let him be trapped inside it because of his gravity.

Yes, but by that logic, anyone can be beaten by blasting them into the sun. Let's not forget Alucard is one crafty sonuvabitch; he can turn into shadows, move extremely fast, has super strength, has great aim, can summon familiars, and can, you know, bite people on the neck.

Lelouch's Geass only work with humans, because he has the power of the kings and the Human Collective. Goku and Vegeta, being Saiyans, arent affected by that. And just like Nunnally, and by some extent Euphemia, demostrated, Geass can be broken by just sheer will. Do I have to remember you what happened when Babidi tried to take over Vegeta's mind?

Not true though. If you remember correctly, he managed to put the "Gods" under his control so they would obliterate his parents. Besides, Saiyans are the same as humans in every respect except Zenkai and tails.

Alex Armstrong has the strength of a Human, and because of that, he is way below Saiyan's strengh (And dont compare Sloth with Hulk, please. They are on diferent leagues)

Don't forget, humans have outclassed Saiyans on occasion. And I only compared Sloth to Hulk to give people a general idea of what he was like. Regardless of who you are though, that mass traveling at that speed would be a heavy impact, and he not only stopped it from going through a wall, but walked out of there with just a dislocated arm.

Luffy cant beat Saiyans, no matter the resolve or how giant his punches are.

Luffy is weaker than Zoro, so he has a harder time (that, and considering his only form of attack is punching and kicking [well, he does have Haki]). Though after the time skip, his new giant, black, arm attack thing looks like it could hurt pretty bad.

Pyramid Head... he can be blasted to oblivion with a Ki Blast, and like Zoro, his giant knife cant do a thing.

I've always imagined him just walking through the ki blast like Broly. And even if they manage to "kill" him, he'll just show up around the next corner. The only time he died in the games was when they stabbed themselves in the neck. Not even shotgun blasts to the face could hurt him that much.

Many of the characters referenced here are actually weaker than some pre Frieza characters, and I think some are actually a joke. Yeah, there are characters that can fight and beat a Saiyan, but not too much.

While I disagree with you, I would like to think you for not being a pretentious jackass like the original poster of this forum. You use actual facts to back up your points, as do I, and I can respect what you say. --DARK 22:52, July 3, 2011 (UTC)

Want to know who I think can fight against the Saiyans? The Gold Saints of Saint Seiya. Now wait, let me explain this one:

We know the Gold Saints move at light speed, so their punches are pretty fast. We know an object the size of a pebble moving faster than a bullet can do some pretty damage. An asteroid the size of a house going several times faster than the sound can practicaly throw the world into mass extinction. Can you imagine the damage a Human punch could do if it traveled at Light Speed?

Now, remember that the Saints are way over Human Strenght, capable to lift "probably" a ton or something like that. Gold Saints are stronger. If they are stronger, their punches are stronger, and those punches, at Light Speed, can do severe damage. And, normally, Saints launch several punches at light speed, not just one, making them more dangerous.

Dragon Ball Z characters, while fast, I don't think they can travel at light speed. Why? because there is always someone faster than them. only characters with special auras, and Supes I think, can broke the Light Speed barrier. Saiyans auras arent special, while Saints auras (Cosmo) are. So, Saints are faster than Saiyans, but the problem is that they dont mantain that speed always, just when they attack, so Saiyans can attack them. only Saiyans I think can archieve light speed are Vegito and Gogeta at their max.

Another disvantage Saints have against Saiyans: Saints' body are human, so the damage they recibe are way to great compared with Saiyans. Cosmos may help, but I dont think it will be enough. So, they have armor. you might say "but Saint Seiya's armor is too weak, because they brake to easy". well, remember that that same armor is getting hit by attack that move at light speed, and, since they normally dont broke at the first punch, it means they must be really strong. Im not saying Saiyans cant break their armors (I think Goku in SSJ3 can break them with a few punches), but those armors are giving the Saints the necessary time to hit the Saiyans with their light speed attacks. If they dont defeat the Saiyans in the first few attacks, they will lose if the battle drags.

So, lets see: Gold Saints are stronger than humans, way to weaker compared to Saiyans. But, their punches are at light speed, so they are faster. Plus, their armors are pretty strong and can resist a few punches of the Super Saiyans before they broke up.

Super Saiyans' (no fusions) strengh exceed Saints, but they aren't as fast as them. But the natural resistence of their bodies can be enough to handle Gold Saints' attacks.

Im not saying who is stronger; I just say the Gold Saints can fight against Goku and Vegeta at their max.

Remember, that is just a supposition, based on what I know about those animes.

Well....yea Edit

Z warriors are very powerful. Every character has his best and weakness. Don't tell me you're going to try to stab Goku with a Kunai right? An Andriod maybe.It is very difficult sometimes to compare series.Z Warriors win i mean look at their power level.Naruto can do what? 3 Rasengan? and they are made up of Chi/Chakra/Ki. To Z warrriors they're are just compressed big Ki Blasts. Even Master Roshi have a chance of beating them. Superman? A guy who flys,with super strenght and wears his underwear on his pants. Batman? Sure he can win IF Goku fight using his breath. One Piece? i like them. they are powerful BUT for there universe.One piece can have a chance int DragonBall only. But if you compare Goku with Luffy, they are just the same but different quest and power.They are dumb,funny powerless when hungry,they have HUGE determination,when Goku had his tail he got weakend when somebody touched it and Luffy is powerless when thrown into the water.But they are all ending in giving up.And Saiyans Can go up to SSj4 if you count DBGT. That means 800x your base power(if i'm right). There is a HUGE difference in power. Tamu raki

There maybe no possibility defeating the Z Fighters, but to come think of maybe there is, but i think the Z-fighters can make up something to defeating them. I'm comparing the Z-fighters with One Piece's Ace and Blackbeard. They are both Logia type. Ace is made up of Fire and you need Lava/Magma to kill him and Blackbeard has kinda of power of the Black hole, which sucks in everything. I think they might put a good fight. What do you think???Tamu raki

Thank you Edit

Someone who agrees with me. I find it very hard to find other people in fiction who could compete with a saiyan. And there is the evidence from someone who knows a lot more anime.

marvel comparison Edit

the strongest character that we have a number for what they can lift is base goku in the buu arc. he is shown to barely be able to hold up the 4 10 ton weights he is wearing, before he transforms and the weight becomes "almost too easy". so, 40 tons is the largest number given in the manga. here is a list of some marvel characters capable of lifting more than 40 tons.

annihilus, apollo, balder, blastaar, darkoth, diamondhead, drax the destroyer, firelord, ganymede, hyppolyta, human robot, loki, makkari, man-bull, master man, mordecai midas, roughouse, sabra, tiger shark, u-man, vision, and woodgod can all lift 45-50 tons.

gray hulk is capable of lifting 70 tons while calm. "savage" hulk is capablr of lifting 90 tons while calm. "merged" hulk can lift 100 tons while calm. maestro can lift 200 tons while calm. all forms of hulk can dramatically increase their strength while enraged, so if "base" maestro is 5x as strong as base goku, it's entirely possible that he can surpass ssj3 goku in physical strength.

speed: ssj gohan in the early buu arc could fly the 1,000 kilometer distance to school in about 20 minutes. that is roughly 1,800 miles per hour, less than mach 3 (2,220 mph). iron man is capable of reaching mach 8, and has been shown to even reach escape velocity (18,000 mph) which is 10x as fast as ssj gohan's top speed. he is also capable of lifting over 100 tons, making him 2.5x as strong as base buu arc goku.

power: the most destructive ki blast ever fired in dbz is super perfect cell's solar kamehameha, which is theoretically capable of destroying the entire solar system. this, however, pales in comparison to galactus, who has the ability to destroy the entire universe at once, and has destroyed universes before.

No... Edit

You guys are wrong. Again... dude you talked about some guy going back in time to make sure goku doesn't leave planet vegeta and dies in the explosion........ that's not what this argument is. If this is always just going to turn into something about "gods" going back in time and bending reality, forget it, because that's not what i'm talking about. As for the things about the strength and speed, goku can obviously lift way more that 40 tons

no, he can't. he could barely hold up 4 10 ton weights, so there's no way he could lift more than 40 tons.

Yes he can during the seven years in the other world Goku trained with 40 Tons and he had only the SSj 1 transformation. In these years Goku achieved SSJ2 and SSJ3 and I think he can lift soo much more Tamu raki

actually, this was right before the 25th budokai. goku already had ssj2 and 3. however, we don't know how much the ssj forms increase lifting strength, because strength does not increase in line with power. goku on the way to namek was training in 100x gravity. his bcvdsdfdsfghfdgidhgonefgbredogjrejgrengorenhgonoergregregregregregreody weight alone was more than 7 tons. in the early buu arc, he's training with 8 tons. but he's hundreds, if not thousands of times more powerful.

Dont you think it will increase???Tamu raki

, and they all can fly way faster than gohan was when he was going to school.

no again. that's how fast gohan said he COULD fly, so unless he goes to ssj2, he can't fly faster than that.

Iron man.... one punch from any z fighters would break him in half.

really? which z fighters? that would mean that they are more than 2.5x as powerful as base buu arc goku, if they can hit hard enough to punch iron man in half, since he can lift 2.5x as much as goku can HOLD.

This argument is pointless if your trying to argue for guys like batman and ironman. Goku is a SUPER SAIYAN 4

wrong again. goku never went past ssj3, nobody did.

No, he is right there is a Super Saiyan 4 do your homework for once.

no, there is not. gt was not made by akira toriyama, and is not canon to the dragonball series. that's like saying there is an ssj5 because toyble made it. only the story created directly by akira toriyama himself is canon, the rest might as well not exist.

.... they are guys in human-technology suits.... Give me a break here. Base goku on namek vs. the ginyu force could take ironman, batman, and zoro at the same time while sleeping. That's just funny.

yep. funny trolls (you) are funny.

Have an open mind Edit

At one point in time superman was able to sneeze and destroy a galaxy whether you think what he wears is stupid or not doesn't matter show me one time where Goku showed that kinda power that superman did with as simple as a sneeze

For the record, some guy calculated Superman's power level by his lift, and he turned out to be about 15,000. Might not be accurate, but it's something to think about. --DARK 01:03, July 4, 2011 (UTC)

Okay well there's different superman comics and even if it's true doesn't mean anything all I'm saying is there no evidence that Goku is stronger to blow up an galaxy without trying just something to think about

Broly uses the Omega Blaster which is said to be "destructive enough to destroy the whole galaxy." and Goku is loads more powerful than Broly at the end of Dragon Ball GT

Yeah, I get you. That's just a fun fact I learned not too long ago. His lifting strength back in pre-Crisi was set, so that's where it came from. --DARK 01:26, July 4, 2011 (UTC)

Okay well superman didn't need to do it with a charged up super attack he did it with a SNEEZE dude!! No one in Dragonball has ever been able to do that and there's no proof in the smoke or manga plus superman can fly at light speed it never shows anyone in dragon ball get close to that fast so?

I don't think Goku's ever sneezed... --DARK 20:10, July 4, 2011 (UTC)

This is really false there are definitely possibilities where Z-fighters lose. Like what about Ryuk from death note all he has to do is write your name and ur dead and you cant even touch him.

Trunks88 20:26, July 4, 2011 (UTC)

Again, NO. Edit

But dude that's not what I am talking about. A guy who writes someone's name and they die.... cool..... I bet he gets a lot of girls... Anyway, I'm talking about straight up fights. I don't understand why this is hard to comprehend i've said it 10 times. Someone who writes names and that person dies.... cool bro. SMH.

I`m not saying it`s the coolest way to kill someone. Ok straight up Kanname Tousen. His powers allow him to remove all senses from someone. So if Goku couldnt sense, touch, see, hear, or smell I`d like to see what he`d do, I love DB/DBZ/DBGT but cmon these guys arent invincible. Trunks88 20:46, July 4, 2011 (UTC)

Okay so you don't think it's cool. Cool bro doesn't matter what you think is cool or not that guy wins right. And sinc when are you the judge of what's "cool" dude

Hard to Tell Edit

I think that all the Naruto characters would be beaten quickly because they all use their chakra to punch and kick with. Pretty much all of the DBZ characters are completely ripped so without their chakra, the shinobi would totaly get creamed. Even though Batman has awesome gadgets,without them he is still tough and strong. All of the marvel characters have been mutated in some way so that is kinda stupid to think that they could win without their powers. All in all, I believe that the Z-Fighters could definitely beat anyone that comes up for a fight. Besides half of them are freaking SSJ already and gohan (SSJ) could barely dodge the rocks that Goten threw at him when Goten wasn't even SSJ. Also they have a Fusion of Piccolo and Kami, not to mention the fusions. Anyway yeah, I agree with whoever made this topic in the first place.

i also have to agree with the obnoxious nuckle head who made this topic.Edit

and, i feel the need to rage at the guy who said zoro could beat the z fighters. zoro? ZORO? FREAKING ZORO?! WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU?! you think the Z fighters cant cut through metal? they're constantly blasting through it! any of them could easily destroy a planet like earth, which guess what, IS FULL OF METAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA(Aneurysm)

You know, I made this same point to Lssj4 a bit ago. Maybe no other characters blow up the Earth because THEY LIVE ON IT. Try to wrap your extremely immature brain around that one. Humans generally die when they go into space without protection, so what would be the benefit of destroying it, let alone the moon (especially in a series like One Piece where they're at sea). Zoro cuts through steel like butter and lifts buildings to throw at people without too much effort, plus it's highly speculated he has some sort of Haki in development. And once again, he can take a beating as bad or worse than the Z-Fighters can. He's been cut in the chest twice with a huge ass sword, stabbed in those wounds (after they'd been ripped open) by a saw-nosed shark, nearly cut his own legs off, had the equivalent of a buzz saw go down on his chest, and taken the pain of another person who was nearly dead while he was in the same state and survived.

The main flaw with your rants (you and the original poster) is that you don't use facts to back up your arguments. All you do is scream at people and call them names when they don't agree with you. I seem to remember a certain fanboy/troll who did the same thing a couple months ago. If you want anyone besides weak-willed morons to take you seriously, try backing up your arguments for once. I've just proved to you how resiliant Zoro is and giving you a few feets of strength he's done. What are your arguments? They can blow up planets (a non-factor, since there's no reason for practically any other fictional character to do such, even though several HAVE DONE THE VERY SAME THING)? That they can use ki blasts (basically the same as any chi or energy based attacks in other fictional universes)? --DARK 20:03, July 5, 2011 (UTC)

And for the record, blowing up a planet doesn't seem to be that hard to do. They were doing it back in Dragonball when the highest powers levels were around 100. --DARK 20:14, July 5, 2011 (UTC)

who cares if he can take a lot of punishment? any Z fighter could separate Zoro into his individual atoms! and why does it matter if they wouldn't blow up the earth? the point is THEY COULD! I'm saying that they COULD cut through metal their pinky fingers. and as for picking up buildings, i seem to recall Frieza picking a mountain out of the ground with his mind. and that wasn't even close to his full power, and Goku was dozens of times that powerful by the end of dbz. can you really claim that Zoro, could do that with his mind, or even his muscles?

According to this guy's rules (are you him?), mind powers don't count, since it's not "pound for pound" fighting. Again, pay attention to what I said and use facts. I said that destroying a planet doesn't seem all that hard as it was done when power levels were around 100 (Roshi destroying the moon), and that a lot of people more than likely could. They just don't because they would die in space. You felt the need to reiterate that the Z-Fighters can blow up a planet. ...Okay. Next you say they can cut through metal, when the only instance of this was Trunks fighting Frieza, and he wasn't even completely mechanical, unlike Mr. 1 in One Piece who could turn his entire body into steel (take a look at that man, then his chest, then imagine that being steel all the way through, then imagine Zoro cutting through it completely). My reason for pointing out how resiliant he is would be to show how much damage they would have to hit him with to even knock him unconcious, let alone kill him. --DARK 01:29, July 6, 2011 (UTC)

no, im not him, but i do agree with him. now, first of all, (to my understanding) mind powers do count, as long as it just for hitting the enemy with. powers like going back in time, and not being able to die because you're already dead, are the things that don't count. second, can you really say that they can't cut through metal? Goku's been able to withstand bullets since the beginning of the series, but you say that even at the very end, when he's millions of times stonger, he wouldn't be able to cut through solid steel with a sword? somebody back me up here? finally, the reason i keep bringing up planet destroying is that there is no way in hell Zoro is stronger than a planet, yet you insist they couldn't beat him? exsqueeze me? a baking powder?

You're putting words in my mouth for one, and what the hell does baking powder have to do with anything. You keep missing my point about planets, as well. We're never going to find out if Zoro can cut through a planet unless there's some other floating object in the sky that the Strawhats encounter. What we do know though is that he has increadible strength, strong enough to lift buildings, train with a giant metal stick with giant metal rings roughly as tall as himself, and cut a ship in half with one slash from his sword. All I ever said is that the only feet of cutting metal we'd seen was Trunks vs Frieza. They probably could, but we don't know. Maybe it'd get stuck. And yes, according to him, you can't use any kind of power besides strength (even though he goes around throwing out the Z-Fighters' ki powers as examples against things I say). And since you were probably refering to Alucard, he's not dead, he's undead (there's a difference). If you can kill him over 1 million times, he'll stay dead (the total amount of souls in his body), though by the end of the series, he's only got 1 soul left (Schroedinger, who can be everyvhere and novhere). --DARK 02:12, July 6, 2011 (UTC)

i can't continue this conversation, and i know you'll think it's because i can't think of any thing to say, and you'd be right. I've said everything i think i need to, it's obvious you refuse to accept that any and all of the Z fighters are stronger than anybody from One Piece, so i'm done.

P.S: did u really not get the Wayne's World reference? really?

Um, no. Never seen that thing. This isn't about One Piece, this is your refusal to consider something other than your own opinion coupled with how you and the original poster refuse to play by the rules he set down (which, in and of itself, is completely assinine). --DARK 02:44, July 6, 2011 (UTC)

I agree Edit

Unless they can blow up planets with a flick of their fingers and warp to different dimensions effortlessly and transform and increase their power by 50x,100x and 400x. They are no match for the Z Fighters. End of discussion. I don't need to watch any of those other shows to know that. Now unless someone can say some other Show has power in comparson to that. The point will be moot. Also note this guy is talking about power wise not touching peoples heads and making their heads explode and summoning lighting from the heavens! Unless you have a good comparison. As I said before the point is moot. Case closed. LSSJ4 20:32, July 5, 2011 (UTC)

Read what I said above. --DARK 20:41, July 5, 2011 (UTC)

Once again like I said superman destroyed a galaxy with a sneeze he didn't need his fingers

See? There you go. It puts all the Z-Fighter's strength into preportion when you see someone who should be weaker (just through fan factoring of Superman's power level) doing something on their scale. And it was a solar system, for the record. --DARK 01:55, July 6, 2011 (UTC)

Im just saying that other people can destroy planets effortlessly like the z fighters and do it easier cus that's all they say is oh he would just blow up the planet

That's what I said. Someone weaker than them can effortless destroy a solar system, putting their "amazing" ability to destroy planets into perspective. Besides, just saying they can blow up planets defeats the entire purpose of what the original poster said. You can't use special powers, just fists (even though he constantly contradicts himself). So unless we see Goku litteraly punch a planet apart, stop using that as an example, people. --DARK 02:16, July 6, 2011 (UTC)

Dude your a freaking biased idiot. A fanboy. A fanboy is defenied as someone who believes one show is stronger then any other show. Thats not true. Soilder5679 02:27, July 6, 2011 (UTC)

Wait, who? --DARK 02:32, July 6, 2011 (UTC)

Speed in DB series is pretty inconsistant Edit

If snake way is 1 million km long and it takes 2 days to travel thats a speed of mach 27 i think, and if Goku dodge lightning at a power level of 265 and lightning is about 1/80 the speed of light if my numbers are correct then at a power level of over 21000 is the speed of light, But it is said that Gohan flew to School at Mach 3 so nothing realy adds up.

Yeah, that's a problem with a lot of anime and especially comics. Powers can change to fit the situation, and if it's a comic, whatever the current writer decides needs to happen. --DARK 03:03, July 6, 2011 (UTC)

I agree these someone v.s. someone things can change based on author bias. SSJ4 Vegito 03:07, July 6, 2011 (UTC)

Don't forget they also change when the original poster makes a bunch of rules about what the fighters can do that he doesn't even follow... --DARK 03:12, July 6, 2011 (UTC)

Dude... Edit

Mr. "Dark" i honestly don't care about anything but that fact that you are trying to imply that Zoro would be any match for a z-fighter... let alone a super saiyan. Dude... its freakin ZORO.... he's a human being who is pretty strong with a sword.... are you serious? Do you have a mental problem?... imagine super saiyain 3 goku against zoro.... LOLOLOLOOL. Goku wouldn't even need to use 1 % of his energy to punch a hole threw his chest. You may have points on some other things... but this zoro business has to stop. He's a human with a sword. Stop.

I'm pretty sure one fully charged Big Bang Kamehameha 100x by Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta will finished just about anything that has been or will be mentioned. Just saying.

You just made that attack up

It's from a game, actually, but it also breaks his own rules of no special attacks. You don't listen to anything someone else says. If you did, you would consider my points. Someone doesn't have to be some multiversal god to stack up to Goku. If you can lift something roughly the height of your body, you're already pretty strong. He lifts about 4 of those at a time, on a thick metal pole, and uses it like it was a sword to train with. We haven't even seen what he can do after the time skip, except that he made the same entrance as Mihawk; that being, cut a ship entirely in half with a one slash. I could go on for days listing the same points over and over again, but you simply won't listen or consider. Just the fact you admit to not even seeing these other shows makes me question why I even respond to your stupidity. Instead of offering a rebuttle like that one man (oh, how I miss him so...), you just insult people and scream about how Goku would kill them easily with no basis at all behind your argument besides Goku being strong. You even consistantly break your own rule of not using anything but physical attacks and quote instances of using ki attacks to battle people. As I said before, until Goku litteraly punches through a planet, stop using that as an example (especially since anyone with Master Roshi's power level can do it). A message to fanboys/generally stupid people; I'm not going to argue with you if you don't have an actual rebuttle to your statments anymore. And for the record, he has 3 swords (that he even used to shoot lasers with one time). --DARK 17:06, July 6, 2011 (UTC)

ok Edit

I don't care if you are right about some things, and you do have some good points... but the zoro thing is just ridiculous. Just admit your kidding on that one. He's a very strong human with good stealth and a sword.... against a super saiyan? Enough of that nonsense. There is my factual evidence right there. Zoro is a human with a sword. Goku or any z-fighter... preferrably a saiyan wouldn't have to use 1% of his power to win. come on man. Raditz would destroy zoro..

Even though it's not any sort of fact to support your argument, it's still enough to respond. Alright, there's Super Saiyan. And...? Just because you can transform and have flowing golden hair doesn't mean you're invincible. Just watch the show and you'll see how ridiculous some of the One Piece characters are. Half the time I'm going "...wat?" while watching Luffy punch through a brick wall like building blocks (hell, just watch his flashback episode (19) and watch how hard little Zoro trains). And like I said before, after the time skip, he's even stronger. He did stuff Nappa could do (that being, destroy ships without any effort at all) on his debut, and with only one eye. Also, since you keep saying one sword, I think you're confusing him with Zorro (Don Diego, and yes, he would lose pretty badly).

Just the fact he can hold a sword in his mouth and swing it effectively in combat, as well as take hits onto it without having brain injuries shows a lot. Not only is it hard to support a sword in your mouth, stay on balance, and actually use it, he's also blocking hits from other swords and whatnot, which in a normal person, would rattle your brain around in your skull. The only semi-scientific answer for why he's not a drooling idiot is that his neck muscles alone are strong enough to keep his head balanced and steady as he gets hit. Either that or he's so manly he doesn't even need a brain.

If you really want to do some research and make the effort to give things a chance, I'll tell you some One Piece characters who I believe could stack up; Luffy (as long as Vegeta isn't a dick throws him in water), Zoro, maybe Usopp (only if he can trick his way through the fight without dying, but that's a small chance so basically the same as no), maybe Franky (just look at those arms...), Kuma (he's fires a blast that travels the speed of light [Zoro dodged it, by the way]), Blackbeard (I figure that he could probably cancel out ki powers like he does Devil Fruit powers), Whitebeard, and Mihawk. I will say, you have made some progress from just screaming "NERD!!!" whenever someone gives a rebuttle. I appreciat that. --DARK 03:37, July 7, 2011 (UTC)

dude... Edit

If your honestly trying to argue that zoro could beat a z-fighter, i'm done. Sure you win your the man. Later.

it's a human being vs. a super saiyan. he'll just teleport behind him and knock him out... fight over. Were both not going to agree with each other so this is pointless.

To each his own I guess.

Speed isn't even a factor if you read what I said above, but if that's how you want to go about it. Never mind my praise, I guess. --DARK 04:07, July 7, 2011 (UTC)

Also, why do you start a new section every time you respond? Just add to the older one. --DARK 04:08, July 7, 2011 (UTC)

Does it even matter? Edit

The Z Fighters' strength only matters relative to other characters in the Dragon Universe. It's not like having 'stronger' characters makes one series better than another

Can Madara take them on? Edit

Well I guess maybe Madara can send Goku to another dimensin or something but then again he could just istant transmission himself back. Janemba was capable of cutting through dimmensions but Gogeta still beat him lol.

9 times out of 10, DBZ = VagueEdit

If you look at the Manga, the fastest DBZ feat so far was SSJ1 Gotenks flying around the world 5 times in a single panel, which is just short of the speed of light, around 125,000 miles per second (speed of light is 186,000 miles per second I believe).

It's open to debate but obviously that was Super Saiyan, not Super Saiyan 3, and personally I feel the likes of Goku SSJ3 and definitely Gohan Mystic/ Unleashed are a lot stronger and faster than the fused boys. So within the original manga I'm pretty certain the DBZ characters were able to move as fast if not faster than the speed of light (and SSJ4 is still valid, Toriyama signed off on GT, and we know that form is pretty much vastly superior to all others). This makes the Superman vs DBZ argument more interesting. But here's the thing. A regular human, when hit by a car at 40mph has an 80% mortality rate. 40mph. So if you're reaching 125,000 miles PER SECOND, there's not a single human being on the planet that won't turn to red mist if you hit them. Superman has this ability too (pretty gay he never uses it huh? I know I'd enjoy Superman a lot more if he was destroying people that way).

The annoying thing is people like the Flash and other weak characters can supposedly move at the speed of light. That expression (faster than the speed of light) is just thrown around by comic book writers and it's really stupid because anything that moves that fast can kill anyone with no effort whatsoever.

The only other factor to consider in Superman vs a DBZ character, is how fast Superman (or anyone that moves the speed of light) can move in a fight. I've seen Superman fighting and he doesn't look very fast. DBZ they move so fast in combat that they're actually invisible, whereas Superman always seems to be visible while fighting (anyone able to offer an example contrary is welcome here). So my belief is that the likes of Superman, Flash, any character that moves the speed of light, can only do so in the equivalent of a "sprint" of their power, whereas in an actual fight the DBZ characters are faster because they're trained to be that way, it's not just to get from A to B for them.

Other characters in different comics, I think Phoenix, possibly Galactus, characters like these are capable of destroying the DBZ characters pretty easily. But that said, there are times when a planet killing blast is taken squarely by a DBZ character and they just keep coming. The power cosmic is a nice name for a blast but I'm not 100% sure how effective it would be, not to mention the dodging ability DBZ characters have.

And don't mention Iron Man. Seriously. Hulk took Iron Man apart with ease, Iron Man can't resist something moving as fast as the speed of light. Another point that was raised was about lifting strength, but that's not a valid point for martial artists. A chinese Kung Fu master might be 5' tall and only able to lift a very small amount by comparison to a body builder, but he can still punch stronger than the big guy because of his technique and muscle development in the right areas. The body builder would be out cold in no time because he would be unable to match a true martial arts master's skill, precision and speed. Even if Goku can't lift more than 40 tonnes, he can still punch through a mountain with ease. He uses Ki to punch so his strength is far in excess of his lifting power, not to mention he's a perfect martial artist, his technique and form are flawless, and he's a combat genius, able to predict and adapt better than any other person. He only gets beat when someone is faster and stronger, but he's never out-thought by an opponent. Personally I think if they're even slightly close to one another's ability, Goku or even Vegeta can beat Superman, because he's not a lifelong dedicated martial artist, whereas Goku and the other DBZ characters are the pinnacle of martial art prowess.

Shouldn't it 400 tonnes? Didn't King Kai planet have 10x gravitation multiplier?180.251.125.225 16:17, August 3, 2012 (UTC)Hiruman

VERY good point, I had forgotten that. Weight=massxgravity, so yeah it would be 400 tonnes. And that's just for King Kai's planet, there's no saying what gravity Grand Kai's planet had. Considering the warriors present, I wouldn't be surprised if it was even stronger. I still maintain Goku's lifting power is no indication of his fighting power, the ability to hit someone is completely separate from the ability to lift things. But it is possible to figure out feats of strength via lifting strength, I've seen it done on Discovery channel for animals with their jaw pressure ratings.

And outside of that, King Kai and the other "Gods" watch the entire Universe. If Superman exists then they know about him and his race. It would only take a thought to inform Goku of Kryptonite and he'd Instant Transmission his way to a quick victory. The tactical asset and back-up provided by King Kai should not be underestimated.

Oh and just about the guy who can write your name and you're dead, what's Goku's name? Is it Son Goku, or Kakarot, and do Saiyans have surnames? What about his middle name? I don't think Goku even knows these things. And I like Alucard, guy is awesome (Dracula!!!) but guns? Seriously? Most pistols fire about 400 metres/second, while the world's most powerful handgun, S&W 500, fires 600m/second. Alucard would NEVER be able to hit any DBZ character with his pistols. Just never. And they're exploding rounds? Energy shield for a start, all DBZ characters can do a last minute shield, but even then, planet killing blasts are being taken and they don't die. Explosive rounds? You're going to need mini nukes.

-TrueCelt

Say no to killing note. Sure that note works on normal human. Once again... Normal. It may works on Krillin and other human Z fighters, but I don't think it works on Saiya-jin. They're alien dude...180.251.125.225 16:22, August 3, 2012 (UTC)Hiruman

Let's see here... Edit

If Superman can just sneeze and destroy galaxies and fly at the speed of light, then how is it possible that he had to race just to catch the falling plane in Superman Returns? And Mr. Popo went half way around the Earth in a split second? And Gotenks flew 5 times around Earth in a matter of seconds? Explain you Superman fans.

lol Edit

I wouldn't be so sure. Master Xehanort (from the Kingdom Hearts series) blew up a world with his hand. He can teleport and make mountains burst from the ground under people. He could take on Raditz. The Beast from inFAMOUS is about even with Nappa. Gurren Lagan... No need to explain that. Superman post-crisis could definitely fight some strong DBZ characters. Aizen (from Bleach) is immortal, so him vs Raditz... you see what I mean? Maybe even Aizen vs Nappa. Sephiroth from Final Fantasy VII is strong enough to take on Raditz. Young Xehanort from Kingdom Hearts can slow, stop, and rewind time. He can also turn invisible. He could fight Raditz. Fatdude (talk) 19:54, August 3, 2012 (UTC)

Can't say much about The Beast, but I can't agree with Aizen, Xehanort and Sephiroth. Aizen is not immortal. I wonder if we could call Aizen "alive" since he's just a soul living in soul society... It's different story if he met Raditz in otherworld then start a fight lol. But I think he could beat Raditz if they fight since his regenerative ability skill is little bit... you know...

Sure Sephiroth is strong, he could fly, slice a building like nothing, summons meteor/black materia (which take a very long time to cast) but he didn't have enough endurance and speed

Endurance : All FFVII characters (even his rival Cloud) can be injured by a bullet. It's been shown how Cloud tried to deflect bullets fired by Loz and Yazoo, even shot in the chest by Yazoo which cause bad damage. As for DB characters, even Kid Goku can withstand a bullet directly shot into his head and Mutenroshi could catch a bullet with his barehand, and Raditz catch the bullet and shot it back into the farmer lol.

Speed : Sephiroth movement is not that fast compared to late DB characters. Goku and Tenshinhan could disappear from spectator sight. Even Mutenroshi that able to catch a bullet with his barehand (which I doubt any FFVII characters could do the same thing) barely keep up with their movement speed. All that thing are done with PL not more than 300... And Raditz have 1200 PL, so...

Xehanort could blow up the world, cast slow, stop, rewind... Yeah, sure... But remember how small each world in Kingdom Hearts is. If our KH main characters can survive Xehanort attacks after hit by Stop spell, then Raditz will most likely survive the same blow. We don't know how much speed loss caused by Slow and I'm sure Raditz is still much2 faster than Xehanort even if he was hit by that magic. When did he use Rewind Time ability? Did he use it in one of the fight? Sorry can't remeber this one. 180.251.125.225 21:15, August 3, 2012 (UTC)Hiruman

Young Xehanort rewinds time back to before he was beaten in Kingdom Hearts Dream Drop Distance, and you have to fight him a second time right after winning the battle. And he'll keep doing that until you succeed in timing your button presses right after beating him. You do make good points about the others. The Beast survived a nuke to the face, and he can regenerate even after being completely destroyed. The only way he was beaten was when Cole Mcgrath sacrificed his own life to kill him. And well Aizen is dead, but if he is "killed" then he's reincarnated as a new person, which is a lot like dying. But after he fuses with the Hogyoku, he becomes immortal. Chapter 423 page 4 of the Bleach manga. I don't know if I'm allowed to post this link here. http://www.mangahere.com/manga/bleach/v45/c423/4.html In the top right hand corner of the page, it says he's immortal (which is because of his fusion with the Hogyoku). The only way he was beaten was Ichigo's Mugetsu severely weakened him and then Urahara used a magical seal on him. As for him vs Raditz before he becomes immortal, I'd say that's fair. Fatdude (talk) 09:09, August 4, 2012 (UTC)

Wow first i would like to say a couple of things.Edit

1.First of all goku was not lifting 40 tons he was shadow boxing totally differnt things.

No, watch the clip again, in normal form he only bears the weight, while as a Super Saiyan he shadow-spars (not just using his hands so sparring is more correct than boxing). He also makes the point that in Super Saiyan that weight would "be almost too easy". - TrueCelt

2.In db kid goku was lifting object way over 40-90 tons maybe even 100.

What are you referring to? Give an example please, I can't remember kid Goku lifting anything that big as a kid. Not that I don't believe you, just curious - TrueCelt

3.Bullets/missles have never been shown to be able to hurt goku unless they was enhance by Ki.Just wanted to get other’s opinion on the Goku metal Cube toss in the Buu saga.

4.I know I am beating a dead horse, but none of the I won’t say anti dbz guys, but those who look upon it less favorably never comment on it. Here is how I see it:

“The Cube” = 200-250 cubic feet of metal

it was characterized as a hard dense metal. our densest true metal osmium, weighs 1350 lbs per cubic foot. it would be safe to assume that the hardest/densest in the universe would exceed that. Let’s say by 50%. That seems pretty fare. seeing as fictional metals are usually way harder and heavier than real world metals.

so that would be 2025 lbs per cubic foot.

2025*225 = 455,000 lbs = 225 tons (about) so just the fact that he lifted it proves already that he is class 100 in base. But remember he didn’t just lift it. He one arm baseball threw it at super speed. So those are two more factors.

So lets take a very in shape guy who who can bench 400 lbs. yet that person could only throw a small object like a baseball at close to full speed. Even a slightly larger object like a shot put would totally destroy their arm if thrown at full speed. So a base ball weighs 5 ounces. so 3.2 base balls per pound. So that means a very in shape guy is able to bench press 1280 times more than what they can throw full speed, so multiply the 225 * 1280 = 288,000 tons. Now the last thing to take in the account was the speed of the throw, based on what we see the cube is thrown at a high speed much higher than your normal strong man can throw even a small baseball. The way the throw is depicted it seems as though his throw would have been approaching supersonic speeds. This would be almost 10 times faster than your normal guy can throw a baseball. so take the 288,000 tons and multiply time 10 and you get 2,880,000 tons for a maximum bench for his base if serious, or if in this case goku was trying to show off for his son and the supreme kai. Could he do more than this maybe, could I be over estimating the calculations perhaps, but if I am it is not by that much. If you don’t agree with me that is fine, but atleast let me know what part you don’t agree with as far as the calculation goes.

I think that makes sense. The majority of DBZ would slaughter any other fictional character. But if I had to choose someone to be similar in strength, I'd say Superman would be pretty close. Now I'm not a Superman fan so I don't know for sure, but he is definitely close to at least some of the weaker characters, if not stronger. And Gurren Lagann... must I say? Anyway, your explanation makes sense. Goku is extremely strong, and I think he was probably not trying very much there (with the cube). The fact that he seemed to put very little effort into lifting it shows me that he could probably do even better if he was doing it for a more serious reason than showing off. Fatdude (talk) 04:43, August 5, 2012 (UTC)

I hate the way Superman has so many different variations. The original Superman, the Christopher Reeves film or the early comic, he was pretty damn weak. Not that fast, not that impressive. They've given him different variants and it's muddied the waters somewhat. Original Superman, Krillin beats him, without even trying. That said, Superman at his strongest makes Flash COMPLETELY obsolete and can maybe match up to a Super Saiyan 2, if not very close to a Super Saiyan 3. Depends if he's able to move as fast in combat as when he's flying, but still, they've overpowered him to update him to more current examples of power such as in anime like DBZ. - TrueCelt

The Ridiculousness is Over 9000 Edit

This forum and its creator has given me cancer. Kuro Ashi 05:04, August 5, 2012 (UTC)

Aaww :(. Here, have a senzu bean! :) - TrueCelt

Gurren Lagann Edit

No person in any other universe cab defeat the main DBZ crew strength-wise. The ONLY ones I can see being able to stand up to them are the galactic size mechas from Gurren Lagann, the ones that were so big that they were literally throwing galaxies and creating big bangs (like the one that created the universe).

ssj4 gogeta could destroy the entire universe just by talking to loud

Super Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann beats anything with ease. Edit

It's around 6 billion lightyears tall. Simon and Viral, (the pilots of STTGL) wouldn't even notice Goku flying around. It can beat anything, no question.

Goku would simply Instant transmission to Simon and Viral's whereabouts... and you know what happens next

That's not how it works. The robot is composed of hundreds of peoples Spiral Energy (equivalent to Ki in that universe), meaning he'd have no way to lock on to them. Simply moving it would cause a vacuum that would destroy millions of stars and planets. --DARK 00:59, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, stronger but Edit

DBZ characters are biggest idiots of all. I mean - they can move so fast that cannot be seen, yet ball of energy approaching slower than an airplane is almost always undodgeable. [TRUTHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH] And when opponent is weak, they let them have time to transform and shit, making this face 8-O and being amazed how he/she gained new powers, after witnessing same scenario 213549 times. I say that James Bond would beat them, by drinking lot of coffee and starting a stare contest that DBZ chars, both good and evil enjoy so much, wait till opponent falls asleep and cut their throat with new Q's lazor or something like that. It's amazing that I still can enjoy this anime, even seeing how annoying and stupid are decisions made by chars. ("We can use dragonballs to find dr Gero's lab and destroy it before he makes androids!" Goku: "No, dr Gero hasn't done anything bad yet" OH COME ON) Edit:Oh, and Veigar from League of Legends destroys every superstrong character.'' 'Ultimate: Primordial Burst. Blasts an enemy champion, dealing heavy magic damage plus 80% of the target's ability power. Add full combo with Deathfire grasp (large percantage of HP gone in an instant) and you have one dead SSJ Vegito (32,000,000,000,000 Power Level=25,600,000,000,000 damage.) Primordial Burst is undodgeable, and as we know DB characters, they always want to see what enemy is capable off instead of taking advantage immediately. And he will probably be stunned, since Veigar's Event Horizon is casted instantly. And don't tell it won't work that way in Dragonball universe. How do you know there is Qi/Ki energy in other universes, maybe there isn't and Goku can't beat fucking Spiderman in Spiderman's universe? HMMMM? HMMMMMMMMMM?!!!!?!11??

Ki is a part of the Z-fighters. Saying "maybe there isn't Ki in other universes" is like saying "maybe there isn't spleens in other universes". Fatdude (talk) 16:36, August 16, 2012 (UTC)

Eh, it's questionable, definitely Edit

.....In my opinion anyone can beat anyone if given the proper circumstances. For example if Lelouch could get Goku to look him straight in the eye; which he probably could seeing as Goku is often so oblivious it's painful, he could Geass his ass and it would all be over. And what about psychics with control over time in like X-men and stuff? If you're frozen in time you can hardly dodge. You could even talk about Bloodbenders from Avatar the Last Airbender. I mean if Katara or whoever can literally CONTROL THE WATER IN YOUR BODY and you are made up of 70% water, sorry Goku, power up all you want but you're not going to be able to get past the biological fact that all the H20 in your body is locked up and under sombody else's control.

Then again it is hard to compare seeing as DBZ seems to continually defy what is physically implausible. We are sure of one thing though, Saiyans and the other Z fighters cannot breathe in space.

God's and such would likely have a distinct advantage especially with immortality...

I suppose purely power-wise the Z fighters might have the edge, but my point is there are other ways to subdue opposition.

Im sorry, but Sesshomaru from Inuyasha is much stronger then goku. Sesshomaru can use instant transmission, he has a sword call the Buaksaiga witch after cutting a enemy, it will continue to cut so the oppenent can not regenarate. So basically he would be able to kill Buu in one swing. so Sesshomaru > Kid Buu > SSj3 Goku.

He also has kii like abilities that he can produce, such as creating wips made of Energy and attacks from his sword.

First of all, Lelouch will only win 'IF' could even have eye contact with Goku, Goku can fight without his sight. Also, there are characters in DBZ who have control of time and even reality (eg. Guldo, Janemba) who would outclass the X-men thing your talking about. And the thing about Katara and her waterbending, Goku has telekinesis and he can control what's inside him with ki (as shown in his fight with super buu).

And yes, the Z-fighters can't survive in space, but Goku will simply Instant transmission him and his opponent out of space.

Gods are immortal, but they will suffer their eternal lives knowing that they could never even ba a match for the Z-fighters.

Sesshomaru > Goku Edit

Im sorry, but Sesshomaru from Inuyasha is much stronger then goku. Sesshomaru can use instant transmission, he has a sword call the Buaksaiga witch after cutting a enemy, it will continue to cut so the oppenent can not regenarate. So basically he would be able to kill Buu in one swing. so Sesshomaru > Kid Buu > SSj3 Goku.

He also has kii like abilities that he can produce, such as creating wips made of Energy and attacks from his sword.

And that is true...but Goku speed blitzes him and flies home

Aw come on! as if Sesshomaru can't even touch Goku. Sesshomaru is a joke for Burter from the Ginyu Force (as of the Frieza Saga) when it comes to speed. Even if he has regeneration or immortallity, he will suffer his eternal life because he will never be able to defeat any strong charater from DBZ. What about Sesshomaru's instant transmission, it takes forever for him to even teleport, any fast character from DBZ would simply fly the distance. And how about the meta coolers? They ain't organic, the sword will not have any special effect on meta cooler.

So... Sesshomaru<(Insert a fairly strong DBZ character here)<Base Goku.

Z fighters problably find it not easy to destroy a planet.

It's not really fair to compare Inuyasha characters to other fiction. The way the series is structured, the people are more like old Japanese mythological figures than mainstream fiction. By today's standards, they're all grossly overpowered and most are simply unstoppable, the method for dealing with them being, "Don't get near where they might be." --DARK 00:55, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

Goku Harder To Destroy Than A Planet In SS1 Form Edit

Goku would dismember ANYBODY as he did kid buu multiple times except NO ONE powerful enough to fight Goku can regenerate whole pieces of body disintegrated like majin buu making them dead in seconds or Goku could punch clean through ANYBODY'S body as he did Omega Shenron with a dragon fist i am pretty sure NO ONE can't take a whole dragon passing through his body and live to tell about it

Z fighters are strong, but would take a minute to charge up their beam.

First of all, if Broly and the buus had as much training as the Z-fighters, they'd beat the crap out of them no matter what. Don't get me wrong. I love all of DBZ till the end, but I'm stating a fact.

Secondly, STOP MAKING ALUCARD LOOK SO WEAK!! I've read the manga that's different than what i know of him, and it doesn't do him justice. He's much stronger. I know he might not be able to beat anyone stronger than a super saiyan (he'd murder anyone else) but please stop demeaning him. Castlevania and DBZ are my two favorite game series, and I wouldn't want to think of them fighting each other. Besides, you think his and the others of Castlevania's powers are stupid, but can you shape-shift into a wolf or bat? Can you transform into mist? Is your dad the Lord of Vampires? Think about it.

Last but not least: GOKU IS NOT A GOD. Seriously, Vegeta and the others are talked about as if they aren't that important, but without them, we wouldn't have even gotten to Dragon Ball Z or GT. We'd still be in the time when Piccolo's dad was the strongest when he had a power level lower than Chiatzu's in DBZ. And don't you need the same exact power for fusion? That means Goku and Vegeta have the same power level. Seriously, give the others some more credit.

/\ Not exactly that. When Trunks and Goten first fused, Trunks' power was higher than Goten's, so he could lower it a little to match Goten. So maybe Goku lowered his power a little. And that's why Vegito was more powerful than Gogeta; because Potara fusion fuses with the whole power, while Gogeta has to fuse with equal power.

201.92.45.239 04:03, December 4, 2012 (UTC)

It is very surprising that we are still talking about this. I believe there are a few people in the whole made-up fiction that can beat the Z-fighters. One of them being a semi-recent one named One-Punch Man. He almost can't be used as an example because he it is some kind of joke manga, BUT he does not have any powers...he just punches. His character was designed for absolutely nothing to even be a competition. So I just find it that comparing him to anyone else as unserious because of how he was made, not by my opinion.

You guys should check up on it.

No one was until you posted. --DARK 23:13, December 14, 2012 (UTC)

Dbz is extremely powerful but... Edit

Base goku could easily blow up a planet. Goku is extremely fast. His fighting speed and reflex speed is thousands of times faster than light. His traveling speed(running, flying) is also hundreds of times faster than light. He has instant transmission. He's fought fights with just instant transmission so its not a hard for thing for him. He can go across the galaxy in an instant using it. He is skilled and a fighting genius. At just super saiyan 2 in DBZ he can blow up a solar system, can shatter planets with his punches, and easily withstand multiple punches that shatter planets. Multiply that power 4 for super saiyan 3. Super saiyan 1 in GT is as strong as super saiyan 3 in DBZ so you can figure out yourself that goku is extremely powerful by time he gets to super saiyan 4. He's actually way beyond shattering planets with his punches, withstanding many of those punches, and blowing up the solar system. Gogeta is many times more powerful on top of that too. Even krillin could mop the floor with a lot of characters in different series. Krillin can easily go several times faster than the eye can see, blow up a planet, and is skilled at fighting. But regardless of how powerful DBZ characters are, there are countless characters in fiction so there has to be atleast a few characters that can beat ssj4 gogeta. Characters like one above all and the presence are all omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscience. I love DBZ way more than any other series but unfortunately goku and vegeta are not the most powerful. If you don't want to include godlike characters like "one above all" and "the presence", then DBZ, especially the saiyans, are pretty dam high up there. Other than characters that are omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscience, I don't know any characters off the top of my head(not saying there isn't any) that can beat ssj4 gogeta, who can: easily move thousands of times faster than the speed of light, is a genius at fighting, instantly travel to places light years away, has a power that can be sensed from hundreds of lightyears away, and if ssj2 goku, who is stated to be stronger than ssj2 gohan who can in just DBZ easily withstand multiple punches that shatter planets, shatter planets with his punches, and blow up a solar system, then who knows what ssj4 gogeta can easily do. --Ssj3gogeta96 (talk) 19:37, March 30, 2013 (UTC)ssj3gogeta96