This Forum has been archivedVisit the new Forums
|Forum → Saiyans = Humans||Post|
I know this may sound weird, but I think that Saiyans are Human. This is because Saiyans and Humans can reproduce and make fertile offspring (Gohan, for example) and if two beings are able to do that, then they are of the same species. Therefore I believe that Saiyans are just an isolated race of Humans that have developed unique traits, but are human none the less. They are comparable to pygmies in that they are still human but because they have been isolated, they developed differently from other humans. I have already changed the pages for Saiyans and Humans to be more accurate according to this. Tell me what you think about this. 184.108.40.206 14:49, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
Just so you know
By the way, it was me, Chiaotzu, who posted originally. I just was not logged in when I posted.
An Intriguing Idea
I think this is a great idea! There is of course no proof, but I think that your theory could certainly be true. With humans like Krillin ending up more powerful than Saiyans like Raditz, the Saiyans have few differences from the Humans of Dragon Ball, besides location of course. The tails, which can transform the saiyans to their Oozaru state are basically the only difference. Years of inbreeding with powerful humans could explain why the Saiyans are born so strong, and who's to say that Uub wouldn't have gone Super Human if he was ever as angry as Goku after Krillin was killed? Though your theory will likely never be proven nor disproven, it is very interesting indeed. -- .10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 08:09, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
- JIPPIE, THIS MEANS ACTUALLY I AM A SAIYAN!!!
- I'M GOING TO PRACTISE THE KAMEHAMEHA —This unsigned comment was made by 220.127.116.11 (talk • contribs) Please sign your posts with ~~~~ next time!.
I think it is the other way around
I think it i would be the other way around, the weaker saiyans were send away to earth not knowing who they were and not needing to fight grew weak, evolution started to kick in getting rid of the tails branding themself humans. Then the tail gene disapper with the generation to come. Think about it the saiyans having tails give them more power, humans have no tail they are weaker. Elder Kai Gohan 00:02, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
If the saiyans came to Earth they would've destroyed all life, making it impossible to live on, let alone procreate the human/ saiyan thing could be a great theory but the saiyan/human thing is pretty crooked since as I said before they would've destroyed tyhe planet instead of mating on it.MacCooler 20:58, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
- not if they were too weak. and regarding the topic starter, some animals here on our Earth can procreate even if they are not from the same species.—This unsigned comment was made by 18.104.22.168 (talk • contribs) Please sign your posts with ~~~~ next time!.
Yes animals on earth can breed if they're a different species, but they don't produce fertile offspring and as we've seen Gohan has fathered Pan, so humans and saiyans are scientifically the same species...can't wait till Roshi goes super saiyan!
It cant be because the saiyans have their own planet. that is a good observation be i think that is wrong. they are from 2 totally different planets. Plus the saiyans have tails and have powerful transformations. i think they are a like but not the same.
Yeah very true. Maybe they're just two different species that just happened to evolve in similar ways (that or Toriyama just didn't think about it as much as us lol).
correct me if im wrong but wasnt the Saiyans home planet never revealed? didnt they land on planet Plant, take it over and rename it Vegeta?-B0N3$
--Final Form Wedge 16:45, December 31, 2009 (UTC)
But Goku was sent to eradicate Earth,rembember?
Yes this explains why we have Ligers here on Earth, Lions + Tigers = Ligers.
I totally agree
Yes, I've been thinking about that too, and I came up with the exact same conclusion. Your theory is supported by Biology, though.
SSJ4 Vegito's Way
I think Saiyans and Humans have a similar relationship as Wolfs and Dogs they are Different enough to be seperate species, but close enough to make fertile offspring. The Legendary SSJ4 Vegito 18:51, September 7, 2011 (UTC)
Fertile? DERP! Tjakari Asks... Is there a problem 21:35, September 9, 2011 (UTC)
Actually... Wolfs and dogs are members of the same specie: Canis Lupus. Donaldo 03:12, February 4, 2012 (UTC)
Judging by all the other species seen in the series, I would say that it was just luck or evolution(cause their origin could be earth like).
But the only real similarity is the humanoid thing and the reproduction thing.
That's how I see it. Trunten 3900 22:17, September 8, 2011 (UTC)
vegeta said that there where othere Saiyan half breeds.
If thats true then either there are more humans out there or there are breeding is easier then you think
By the way you place the whole thing i have to disagree on something Sayians are not Humans but Humans are Sayians.
Your theory has 2 mistakes
1) By the time Sayians evolve the technology (that happened at the end of Sayians-Tafle war) and could send sayian baby's to earth it was 2 late because the war between sayians and taffles end at year 730 and Goku was sent to earth in year 737 so i don't thing the whole evolution to earth could change in 7 years.
2) Since Sayians could not go to earth until the age 730 it was impossible to send baby's to destroy earth and change the natural evolution of humans and don't forget only when frieza take over planet vegeta Sayians involved on planets trade.
As a conclusion i don't thing that sayians and humans have any relationship . I agree with Super Sayian 4 Vegeto way with the example he gave with dogs and wolfs.
And Finally i don't thing that Sayians and Humans have any relationship because in GT we saw many planets that the residencies was also human like
I actually like the theory that Saiyan DNA can mutate to match others when it's sperm and possibly egg. That would make it a lot easier for them to pass on their genes in times of desperation, which is helpful for a race of people that are constantly fighting and dying. That also explains how Tarble and Gure could possibly mate while the Goku and Vegeta are with humans. --DARK 20:17, September 9, 2011 (UTC)
Clever. I like this theory. Shakuran13 21:30, September 9, 2011 (UTC)
I like it too, but that's extremely difficult in evolutionary terms.Trunten 3900 00:52, September 10, 2011 (UTC)
You should know by now Toriyama doesn't care about real world biology. Tails as a recessive trait... --DARK 01:17, September 10, 2011 (UTC)
Well, it's a manga. Shakuran13 02:30, September 10, 2011 (UTC)
Here's my theory. Evolution diverged some human-like species into the Tuffles and Saiyans while they were on Planet Plant. Long before the Saiyan-Tuffle war, a handful of Tuffles used their superior technology to travel through space to Earth where they colonized, millions of years before the present time. That would explain why the humans of Earth have such advanced technology yet still live in the time of dinosaurs. DBZ takes place millions of years in the past and Humans = Tuffles = rather close relatives of Saiyans. Janemba4eva 20:37, September 9, 2011 (UTC)
- Common theories and misconceptions:
1) The original Saiyan planet was never revealed. It was probably Earth.
-No, the Original Super Saiyan destroyed the original Saiyan planet. They moved to Planet Plant after that. Read Dark's explanation for more.
2) It can't be, the Saiyans sent Goku to Earth to destroy it.
-Even if the Saiyan were Earthlings (or vice versa) they probably would've forgotten. There was very little interaction between Earthlings and Saiyans (Major Metallitron saw that Kid Goku was not human, yet he didn't know the species).
3) The Saiyans would've destroyed Earth.
-Not necessarily. Did they destroy Planet Plant? Even if weaker Saiyans went to Earth, they wouldn't go on a rampage (unless they went Ozaru). Maybe the moon on Earth didn't exist back then, or it was destroyed by one of the Saiyans. Either way, they're not stupid enough to destroy their home unless they couldn't control their power like the OSSJ.
4) Saiyans were originally Earthlings.
-How would they have gotten there? Dr. Brief needed Saiyan technology to get to Namek. (Well, we technically don't know which quadrant Planet Plant/Original Saiyan Planet was in) How could they have advanced technology, but then become less advanced? Maybe there was an apocalypse, but I doubt it.
5) Humans can go Super Saiyan.
-If Saiyans were originally Humans that gained tails and extraordinary power, wouldn't they have also obtained the SSJ ability through evolution as well to adapt to all other opposing aliens (like Frieza's race, Tuffles, etc.)? Even if it was the other way around, wouldn't they have lost their SSJ ability along with their tails and power?
6) They evolved the same.
-Wow. That's a huge coincidence! As previously state by another user, Akira Toriyama (creator of the DB franchise) probably didn't think of it as much as we are. True, Recoome looked incredibly like a human. But again, coincidence.
- Possible theories and ideas:
1) Seperate yet breedable
-The theory that states Humans and Saiyans are seperate species, yet able to breed like dogs and wolves is possible. (" I think Saiyans and Humans have a similar relationship as Wolfs and Dogs they are Different enough to be seperate species, but close enough to make fertile offspring."-The Legendary SSJ4 Vegito)
Actually... Wolfs and dogs are members of the same specie:
-A very good theory is that Tuffles (a very advanced race) came to Earth, explaining why the Humans in DB and DBZ are so advanced even though they are millions of years before our time, they have better technology then us. ("Here's my theory. Evolution diverged some human-like species into the Tuffles and Saiyans while they were on Planet Plant. Long before the Saiyan-Tuffle war, a handful of Tuffles used their superior technology to travel through space to Earth where they colonized, millions of years before the present time. That would explain why the humans of Earth have such advanced technology yet still live in the time of dinosaurs. DBZ takes place millions of years in the past and Humans = Tuffles = rather close relatives of Saiyans.")
3) Adaptatable DNA
-Another great theory is that Saiyan DNA can change in the sperm/egg when breeding with other species when in time of near extinction (like the Namekians) or desperation (such as when fighting a war, for mass production; because it is stated that the Saiyans were evolving quickly, in terms of strength and combat skill).
"I actually like the theory that Saiyan DNA can mutate to match others when it's sperm and possibly egg. That would make it a lot easier for them to pass on their genes in times of desperation, which is helpful for a race of people that are constantly fighting and dying. That also explains how Tarble and Gure could possibly mate while the Goku and Vegeta are with humans.")
4) Other Saiyan half-breeds
-If the third theory is true, than wouldn't there be other Saiyan half-breeds? An example being Tarble and his wife. Would they be able to transform into an Ozaru or Super Saiyan? Would they still have the Zenkai?
Could there possibly be cross breed between a Saiyan and a member of Frieza's race? Tri-clops? Namekians (wait, they don't have...yeah)? Yardrats? Kanassans? Demons? Konatsians (have you realized that if you scramble the last five letters it's asians)? Just imagine a Super Saiyan Frieza, Tien, or Tapion. An Ozaru Yardrat or Demon. Am I pushing it? Probably. But it's a cool thought.
I think that the saiyan ancestors could have traveled to Earth but had regressed and lost all their power (tails)
-random add on
i also love the idea that they are somewhat decended or related, this might also apply to the fact that they have no language barrier in there travels. namekians clearly have there own language but there is what seems to be a common universal language at play.
you're all thinking to deep guys. Saiyans and humans being able to reproduce is one of the major holes in DBZ. It's a fun one though, and that's why it is in there in the first place. Toriyama just wanted to make a cool story, he didn't think about biology and stuff like that.
I gotta agree with the post right above mine. While I love DBZ, the science behind a lot of the things that happen is pretty shoddy. The fact that almost everyone in the universe seems to speak the same language is another rather large plot hole, and as a physics guy the logic behind the time traveling in the Cell arc has always seemed shaky to me. It doesn't really bother me though, DBZ isn't supposed to be hard SF. Freeza Burn 16:28, February 3, 2012 (UTC)
The saiyans and humans were probably ancient tuffle colonies, one of which adapted to 10x earth's gravity, the other at earths gravity... orthe tuffles and saiyans were a human colony crated before a large civilizational collapse on both earth and the saiyans home planet, after which the tuffles after loosing contact for hundreds of years, forgot about earth and her colonies.
This is GOKU125 's thoughts
The idea of saiyans being human because they can both reproduce is good but isnt true because they come from a completley different planet, but not all low class saiyans get sent to Earth and evolution would never kick in because the only way a Saiyan to lose their tail is if it got ripped/cut off, also Goku being the only "low class saiyan" that was sent to Earth might have forgotten who he was but he still trained and became strong only to find out what he truly was. The only time his tail came off was when his friends cut it off, but then later regrown in dbgt.
Your theory makes no sense
Saiyans and humans hav almost no similarites other than them both being humonoid. Saying, that they are the same thing would be like saying that tuffles and Recoome are human because they look human. Not to mention that THIS IS JUST A TV SHOW!!!!! Akira probably made them look alike since he had already made goku look like a human before saiyans were revealed, they were gonna mate with humans so they might as well look like them, and he didn't want them to stick out too much from regular humans. They can reproduce. so what? it's a show; it's not supposed to be realistic or scientifically possible.
- I think the tails can only regrow when the sayans are kids. Donaldo 03:21, February 4, 2012 (UTC)
DB Universe's biology is different than the real world's biology, and Akira probably didnt think on everything, like this. And btw, not 100% of hybrids animals are infertile.
Well like it says mabye humans are only related to sayins a little bit and thats how humans dont have tails and if a human is lower than 1/4 sayin that he/she can not become a super sayin.
I think we're forgetting about Zenkai. Saiyans have the ability to grow more powerful after every scuffle or coming near-death. Humans do indeed need to struggle much more for their battle power to be raised. However, this is all technical. By appearance, Saiyans are very similar to humans, which is why I prefer the alien races. - 17:46, November 26, 2013 (UTC)
Saiyans and Humans would be members of the same species since they can produce fertile offspring, however because of the seperation of planets and the slight differences in physiology Saiyans would have to be classified as a sub-species of humans (or possibly humans as a subspecies of saiyans)
This could have happened as a result of some genetic tinkering in the past (some primitive saiyans visiting Earth or what have you) or the case of convergent evolution at a genotypic level.
Lets look at the differences between the two species; which are few but significant. Saiyans are naturally stronger, and more muscular; even as children. If Gohan had been 100% human then that intense training with Piccolo as a child would have led to severe musuclar degeneration, possibly crippling him for life (the same with most of the characters actually considering the intense gravity training Goku and Vegeta had gone through), however Saiyans have evolved to be more adaptable as well as being just stronger. Humans can do this too, although we adapt slower there are some humans that can have those same muscular traits if they are born with one copy of their myostatin-producing gene missing or inert (myostatin is the protein in which prevents muscles from growing too large too fast, if both copies of the gene don't work then the animal would develop severely large strong muscles, but without the heart/lung capacity to support it and thus be danaged; however if only one copy is missing then they can be naturally athletic and very powerful [look up Liam Hoekstra and the German superbaby]) Saiyans most likely produce less myostatin than humans do, this is apparent by both their strength and metabolism as individuals with excess follistatin (myostatin inhibiting protein) are incredibly lean and have a hard time gaining fat as well as having a massive metabolism.
Aside from the metabolism and strength Saiyans are also born with tails that allow them to be stronger (unless they train intensively after their tail is removed) and allow them to transform into Oozaru when exposed to Blutz waves; from this we can speculate that their tail is more than just a tail and probably contains a gland inside that acts to increase a saiyan's strength proportionate to the level of bluts waves they are exposed to (very little being the default, while an excess causes a complete transfomration) and since Saiyan metabolisms are much faster than humans, removing this gland (and therefore the hormone(s) secreted) causes a nearly instant loss of the benefits it gives. From this, we can speculate further that if a human were to be exposed to the tail hormone they would experience temporary saiyan-like changes (although on a lower level); however this may not be true as Earth humans may not have the necesary genes to activate the benefits of the gland.
So basically, my theory is that as a result of convergent evolution, Humans and Saiyans ended up being members of the same species with only a few minor differences (I intentionally left out Super Saiyan transformations because that is limited to only a few saiyans, not to mention that the hybrids can acheive it much sooner than the actual full-blooded saiyans)
Two Different Planets
Here's a thought. It is very possible that two similar beings formed on different planets that could cross breed without any of them having anything in common. Since as far as we know right now we are the only intelligent life in the universe. Until that day comes we may find that there are billions of humaniod type species that we can breed with. Also, I can disprove this theory since King Kia who over sees the earth and Planet Vegeta never mention any connection. While he was wrong on the details of how Vegeta was destroyed he would at least have an idea if the Tuffles or Saiyans were sent to Earth.