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"My power's rising! Overflowing!"/"I'm getting stronger! Yes, much stronger!" anyone?
 
"My power's rising! Overflowing!"/"I'm getting stronger! Yes, much stronger!" anyone?
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'''his ki was rising, not his power. his power cannot increase. when his ki tried to increase, he had to expell it from his body. '''
   
 
h"es very stoppable if three ssj1s was all it took to kill him, and he couldnt even take a punch from ssj1 goku"
 
h"es very stoppable if three ssj1s was all it took to kill him, and he couldnt even take a punch from ssj1 goku"
   
 
Yet he could take several hits from two MSSJs, two ASSJs, and a Super Namek despite the fact that, at least power wise, ASSJ are better (since MSSJs are focused more on conserving energy rather than powering up, MSSJs are technically weaker than ASSJs)? First off, if he truly couldn't even take a punch from SSJ1 Goku, he certainly wouldn't stand a chance against either four SSJs and a Super Namek or two MSSJs, two ASSJs and a Super Namek.
 
Yet he could take several hits from two MSSJs, two ASSJs, and a Super Namek despite the fact that, at least power wise, ASSJ are better (since MSSJs are focused more on conserving energy rather than powering up, MSSJs are technically weaker than ASSJs)? First off, if he truly couldn't even take a punch from SSJ1 Goku, he certainly wouldn't stand a chance against either four SSJs and a Super Namek or two MSSJs, two ASSJs and a Super Namek.
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'''mssjs arent weaker than assjs. are you absolutely off your meds? mssj goku = cell, cell >>>>assj vegeta. secondly, its a plothole retcon but yes broly lost to a goku who was only supported by near dead base saiyans. cell was stated as capable of taking on ssj2 kid son gohan in his super perfect state, who killed 7 cell jrs who beat on vegeta, trunks, goku and piccolo. '''
   
 
"cooler is practically unkillable thanks to his army of clones."
 
"cooler is practically unkillable thanks to his army of clones."
   
 
Not really. As the film showed, the clones can only operate if the original Cooler doesn't crash. All Broly has to do is blow up the Big Gete Star, and thus the original Cooler, and they'll spontaneously self destruct, even if he can't handle an entire army of them. Besides which, Goku, Gohan, Piccolo, and Vegeta are far stronger in Movie 8 than in Movie 6, not to mention have new transformations (or in the case of Gohan, could actually go SSJ, never mind MSSJ) and yet they couldn't even beat Broly without donating their powers to Goku, it's a fair chance that he can wipe them out.
 
Not really. As the film showed, the clones can only operate if the original Cooler doesn't crash. All Broly has to do is blow up the Big Gete Star, and thus the original Cooler, and they'll spontaneously self destruct, even if he can't handle an entire army of them. Besides which, Goku, Gohan, Piccolo, and Vegeta are far stronger in Movie 8 than in Movie 6, not to mention have new transformations (or in the case of Gohan, could actually go SSJ, never mind MSSJ) and yet they couldn't even beat Broly without donating their powers to Goku, it's a fair chance that he can wipe them out.
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'''is broly smart enough to blow up the star? nope. the army will protect it. and brolys feat isnt impressive. he still lost to ssj goku with near dead base saiyans power. '''
   
 
"cell and dabura defeat broly with ease."
 
"cell and dabura defeat broly with ease."
   
 
No, not really. After all, Goku implied in Movie 8 that Gohan, even if he went SSJ2 (he's certainly capable of doing so, even if unknowingly, thanks to that ROSAT flashback in Cell's Mighty Breakdown), he'd still be pummeled. Besides which, why take care of Broly if Cell's more of a threat power-wise? As long as Goku and Broly never meet, there's no danger in risking him unleashing his overall power without his father. And as stated before, if Broly truly was weaker than Cell, why didn't they have Goku actually encourage Gohan to utilize his hidden depths and one-shot Broly instead of, well, telling Gohan to flee? As for Dabura, considering how he's officially stated to be at a similar level to Cell, I'd say he really doesn't stand a chance.
 
No, not really. After all, Goku implied in Movie 8 that Gohan, even if he went SSJ2 (he's certainly capable of doing so, even if unknowingly, thanks to that ROSAT flashback in Cell's Mighty Breakdown), he'd still be pummeled. Besides which, why take care of Broly if Cell's more of a threat power-wise? As long as Goku and Broly never meet, there's no danger in risking him unleashing his overall power without his father. And as stated before, if Broly truly was weaker than Cell, why didn't they have Goku actually encourage Gohan to utilize his hidden depths and one-shot Broly instead of, well, telling Gohan to flee? As for Dabura, considering how he's officially stated to be at a similar level to Cell, I'd say he really doesn't stand a chance.
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'''goku said in cell games, gohan was the strongest of all the z fighters even in ssj1. if goku thinks gohan doesnt have a chance, then that means goku has lost his mind and sent away the best chance the universe has of survival. since i dont think this is the case, gohan in movie 8 is far weaker than cell games gohan and buu arc teen gohan. dabura was stated by goku as above super perfect cell. spc > broly. '''
   
 
"hirudegarn never showed any signs he can be out of breath ever. he one shotted ultimate gohan and ssj3 gotenks. broly was beaten by three ssj1s."
 
"hirudegarn never showed any signs he can be out of breath ever. he one shotted ultimate gohan and ssj3 gotenks. broly was beaten by three ssj1s."
   
 
Broly was only beaten by three SSJ1s out of luck. If you remember, Trunks fired a Ki blast that ended up blocking most of Broly's attempts of pushing the Omega Blaster into the Earth and blowing it up. Had it not been for Trunks' action, it was fairly obvious that the Omega Blaster was going to pushed even further into the planet, kill Goten, Gohan, and probably make Goku cease to exist (I mean, for goodness sakes, when he started shooting eraser cannons into the Omega Blaster, it actually crushed into the cliffside and was beginning to cause the magma to rise).
 
Broly was only beaten by three SSJ1s out of luck. If you remember, Trunks fired a Ki blast that ended up blocking most of Broly's attempts of pushing the Omega Blaster into the Earth and blowing it up. Had it not been for Trunks' action, it was fairly obvious that the Omega Blaster was going to pushed even further into the planet, kill Goten, Gohan, and probably make Goku cease to exist (I mean, for goodness sakes, when he started shooting eraser cannons into the Omega Blaster, it actually crushed into the cliffside and was beginning to cause the magma to rise).
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'''dont use excuses. trunks didnt divert broly's attention, merely blocking his blasts somehow. this would not depower brolys attack nor weaken broly himself. the three ssj1s simply overpowered his attack and destroyed him by pouring more power into their attack. trunks did nothing. they won by overpowering him. '''
   
 
"and? goku stated hatchyack was stronger than broly and hatchyacks no match for ssj2 kid gohan who is no match for ssj2 vegeta who was bitchslapped and knocked out by hirudegarns tail alone."
 
"and? goku stated hatchyack was stronger than broly and hatchyacks no match for ssj2 kid gohan who is no match for ssj2 vegeta who was bitchslapped and knocked out by hirudegarns tail alone."
   
 
Considering the fact that they actually exploited a weakness within Hatchyack (I think firing right when 15 seconds have passed), I really doubt it has anything to do with SSJ2 Teen Gohan being stronger. Besides, technically, Goku stated that he was around Broly strength, and even that doesn't necessarily mean overall. By movie 10, going by what Gohan stated, Movie 10 LSSJ Broly would have been a lot stronger than Movie 8 LSSJ Broly (Gohan stated that Broly was as much as a challenge as the last time they fought, and unlike Movie 8, he was fighting SSJ Broly.)
 
Considering the fact that they actually exploited a weakness within Hatchyack (I think firing right when 15 seconds have passed), I really doubt it has anything to do with SSJ2 Teen Gohan being stronger. Besides, technically, Goku stated that he was around Broly strength, and even that doesn't necessarily mean overall. By movie 10, going by what Gohan stated, Movie 10 LSSJ Broly would have been a lot stronger than Movie 8 LSSJ Broly (Gohan stated that Broly was as much as a challenge as the last time they fought, and unlike Movie 8, he was fighting SSJ Broly.)
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'''that was just one ending to that OVA. against super hatchyack, they had to use a genki dama. besides goku stated base hatchyack is stronger than broly. and in movie 10, its unknown if gohan was ssj2, and if he was, he wasnt "just as much a challenge" but superior. you just used an english dub line anyway. '''
   
 
"doesnt count."
 
"doesnt count."
   
 
How? You mentioned Hatchyack when he was not even a movie-exclusive character, but a character that is exclusive from an interactive walkthrough for a video game/video game character, so if you think he counts enough to mention, then so does the opening for the game.
 
How? You mentioned Hatchyack when he was not even a movie-exclusive character, but a character that is exclusive from an interactive walkthrough for a video game/video game character, so if you think he counts enough to mention, then so does the opening for the game.
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'''hatchyack was in an OVA, not a game. '''
   
 
"hes a good fighter when it calls for it. ultimate gohan couldnt touch him. ultimate gohan would kill broly with his pinky."
 
"hes a good fighter when it calls for it. ultimate gohan couldnt touch him. ultimate gohan would kill broly with his pinky."
   
 
It depends on which movie Broly was in, really. Movie 8, he'd probably at best tie with Ultimate Gohan. Movie 10, given the implications that Broly grew much stronger in that movie during his coma, I wouldn't be surprised if Ultimate Gohan would have been beaten by LSSJ Broly.
 
It depends on which movie Broly was in, really. Movie 8, he'd probably at best tie with Ultimate Gohan. Movie 10, given the implications that Broly grew much stronger in that movie during his coma, I wouldn't be surprised if Ultimate Gohan would have been beaten by LSSJ Broly.
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'''what the fucking hell? broly was NOWHERE NEAR ultimate gohan. ultimate gohan would look at broly and broly would disintegrate. a single ssj1 with the powers of near death base saiyans defeated him at first, then three ssj1s beat him again and not cos of trunks who did nothing to depower brolys efforts. just raised a shield of sorts. '''
   
 
"you do know kid buu and cell are capable of that?"
 
"you do know kid buu and cell are capable of that?"
   
 
Kid Buu, yes. Cell, not so much. He himself does have a limit to his power.
 
Kid Buu, yes. Cell, not so much. He himself does have a limit to his power.
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'''cell has no limits as long as he keeps blowing himself up. '''
   
 
"so why did vegeta get stronger after NOT being pushed to near death vs recoome, but gohan didnt get any stronger at all after being healed by dende after fighting buutenks and nearly dying?"
 
"so why did vegeta get stronger after NOT being pushed to near death vs recoome, but gohan didnt get any stronger at all after being healed by dende after fighting buutenks and nearly dying?"
   
 
Just because he grows stronger doesn't necessarily mean that he automatically overpowers his enemy. Remember, Vegeta received a Zenkai that should theoretically beat Frieza's third form, but when he fought Frieza's fourth form (who was using only 1% of his overall power), he was absolutely creamed. The same can apply here.
 
Just because he grows stronger doesn't necessarily mean that he automatically overpowers his enemy. Remember, Vegeta received a Zenkai that should theoretically beat Frieza's third form, but when he fought Frieza's fourth form (who was using only 1% of his overall power), he was absolutely creamed. The same can apply here.
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'''gohan was NO STRONGER AT ALL. as you said, even if it doesnt work, they still increase greatly in power. since this is no longer the case later in the series, the zenkais stop. toriyama simply got rid of that plot device as he had the rosat plot device invented. '''
   
 
"hes already at full power. so why would he power up further than 100%? and prove he wasnt fighting at full capacity. you cant. he had no reason not to when being pushed millions of miles to a star."
 
"hes already at full power. so why would he power up further than 100%? and prove he wasnt fighting at full capacity. you cant. he had no reason not to when being pushed millions of miles to a star."
   
 
I believe Broly stated "If you just let me kill you all before, you wouldn't even be in this sort of pain now!", which implies that he was toying with his victims. Toying with opponents means holding back a large amount of your power.
 
I believe Broly stated "If you just let me kill you all before, you wouldn't even be in this sort of pain now!", which implies that he was toying with his victims. Toying with opponents means holding back a large amount of your power.
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'''no he didnt. thats an english dub line and doesnt count. and toying doesnt mean holding back. so sorry. '''
   
 
"IT TOOK GOGETA TO BEAT JANEMBA BUT THREE SSJ1S TO KILL BROLY! how is broly ever standing a chance in hell?"
 
"IT TOOK GOGETA TO BEAT JANEMBA BUT THREE SSJ1S TO KILL BROLY! how is broly ever standing a chance in hell?"
   
 
Not that it matters anyways, considering the fact that most of the other franchises disowned Bio-Broly (it didn't get its own story mode in any of the Budokai Tenkaichi games/fighting games. Even Garlic Jr. got a story mode based on his saga, Bio-Broly got nothing. How is that not disowning the character?), but he at the very least stood enough of a chance to require Goku and Pikkon to go to Hell and calm Broly down from a rampage. But, yet again, thanks to Bio-Broly's lack of mention anywhere else, including the games, it probably doesn't count.
 
Not that it matters anyways, considering the fact that most of the other franchises disowned Bio-Broly (it didn't get its own story mode in any of the Budokai Tenkaichi games/fighting games. Even Garlic Jr. got a story mode based on his saga, Bio-Broly got nothing. How is that not disowning the character?), but he at the very least stood enough of a chance to require Goku and Pikkon to go to Hell and calm Broly down from a rampage. But, yet again, thanks to Bio-Broly's lack of mention anywhere else, including the games, it probably doesn't count.
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'''the game company thought not to include him. duh. game company =/= toei. and goku and pikkon went to stop the real broly. '''
   
 
"he turns broly to stone then gets stepped on by hirudegarn."
 
"he turns broly to stone then gets stepped on by hirudegarn."
   
 
Broly would probably destroy Dabura before he could utilize the stone spit. Considering the whole thing about Dabura being around the same strength as Super Perfect Cell, if not slightly more, Broly at least during Movie 10 would beat him.
 
Broly would probably destroy Dabura before he could utilize the stone spit. Considering the whole thing about Dabura being around the same strength as Super Perfect Cell, if not slightly more, Broly at least during Movie 10 would beat him.
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'''broly doesnt kill right away. you said that yourself. dabura one shots broly by enticing him to charge wildly. and movie 10 broly cannot defeat super perfect cell and had trouble with ssj1 teen gohan. so there you go. '''
   
 
"bojacks strong, he could match cell and survived being impaled by gohan and cancled out his kamehameha."
 
"bojacks strong, he could match cell and survived being impaled by gohan and cancled out his kamehameha."
   
 
And got killed by SSJ2 Gohan nonetheless, and was overall scared by SSJ2 Gohan's power. Heck, unlike against LSSJ Broly in Movie 8, Goku actually maintained a very firm belief that Gohan would beat Bojack even before Gohan actually met him. Considering that, it's still likely that Movie 8 LSSJ Broly would cream Bojack. Stats wise, that's the plausable scenario.
 
And got killed by SSJ2 Gohan nonetheless, and was overall scared by SSJ2 Gohan's power. Heck, unlike against LSSJ Broly in Movie 8, Goku actually maintained a very firm belief that Gohan would beat Bojack even before Gohan actually met him. Considering that, it's still likely that Movie 8 LSSJ Broly would cream Bojack. Stats wise, that's the plausable scenario.
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'''bojack wasnt scared of gohan. he was only killed because he was outmatched. and gohan didnt have the ability to go ssj2 in movie 8. your point is retarded and suggests that ssj1 goku movie 8 stood more of a chance than ssj2 kid gohan despite that not being the case. bojack creamed fighters stronger than the ones that faced broly. '''
   
 
"who couldnt defeat ssj3 goku but hirudegarn would murk goku if goku didnt have dragon fist to save him."
 
"who couldnt defeat ssj3 goku but hirudegarn would murk goku if goku didnt have dragon fist to save him."
   
 
Broly was able to defeat easily what was the equivalent of nine super saiyans without breaking a sweat and certainly without receiving any wounds in Movie 8 prior to Broly being defeated by a punch to the stomach.
 
Broly was able to defeat easily what was the equivalent of nine super saiyans without breaking a sweat and certainly without receiving any wounds in Movie 8 prior to Broly being defeated by a punch to the stomach.
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'''broly only defeated 5 ssj1s. and was almost killed by one punch from ssj1 goku with the power of near dead base saiyans. hirudegarn was defeated only by the strongest single attack in the dbz universe. '''
   
 
"yet was defeated 4 times."
 
"yet was defeated 4 times."
   
 
Four? I only saw him defeated twice, in Movie 8 and Movie 10. Before anyone mentions it, no, Bio Broly doesn't count since A. most of the movie ended up being ignored by pretty much everything else, at least in terms of the games, and B. Even if it were counted by the other Dragon Ball franchise, Bio Broly was a clone of Broly, not Broly himself.
 
Four? I only saw him defeated twice, in Movie 8 and Movie 10. Before anyone mentions it, no, Bio Broly doesn't count since A. most of the movie ended up being ignored by pretty much everything else, at least in terms of the games, and B. Even if it were counted by the other Dragon Ball franchise, Bio Broly was a clone of Broly, not Broly himself.
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'''bio broly doesnt count because you say so. bio broly has broly's dna and fighting skills. he counts. '''
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'''1. defeated by king vegeta as a baby. 2. defeated by goku in movie 8. 3. defeated by goku gohan goten. 4. defeated by trunks and seawater. 5. defeated by goku and pikkon in hell. '''
   
 
"you mean weaker."
 
"you mean weaker."
   
 
Nope, he means stronger. At no point was it ever implied that he actually grows weaker. If anything, especially the whole "My Power's rising, Overflowing!"/"I'm getting stronger! Yes, much stronger!" that he actually grows much stronger while in his LSSJ form.
 
Nope, he means stronger. At no point was it ever implied that he actually grows weaker. If anything, especially the whole "My Power's rising, Overflowing!"/"I'm getting stronger! Yes, much stronger!" that he actually grows much stronger while in his LSSJ form.
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'''no "my ki is rising! its overflowing!" as you know, overflowing means his power is pouring out of him. he cannot control it nor handle it being in his body. we know he was losing power because he began to be frustrated and having trouble with goku at the end of the movie but at the beginning he was beating him around with ease. he got no stronger at all. '''
   
 
Also, I doubt Broly would simply be knocked aside by a finger. Broly Movie 8, maybe, but Movie 10, I have doubts about that. Broly's LSSJ form is probably on par with Janemba, if not even stronger.
 
Also, I doubt Broly would simply be knocked aside by a finger. Broly Movie 8, maybe, but Movie 10, I have doubts about that. Broly's LSSJ form is probably on par with Janemba, if not even stronger.
   
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'''broly is nowhere near janemba you goddamn broly fanboy. janemba knocked aside ssj3 goku with his sword. he then kicked the hell out of ssj2 vegeta and pikkon. as we know, it took only one punch from ssj1 cell arc goku to defeat broly, then later 3 ssj1s, then later ssj2 goku combined with pikkon to take broly down. since goku at the end of movie 11 wasnt worried about broly and preferred to eat, then goku >>>broly. and janemba >>>goku. so janemba >>>>broly. '''
I don't even care one way or another for the character, yet even I could see some fallacies by the people who claim that Broly's weaker than Cell or any of that. Broly's power is probably on par with Kid Buu right now. Kid Buu's power is limitless, and Broly's power is heavily implied to increase as long as he is in LSSJ form. Because of that, Kid Buu is probably the only one to actually stand a chance against Broly (It's also heavily implied that Kid Buu is probably stronger than SSJ3 Goku, especially considering the fact that Kid Buu managed to beat him up a lot, and plus, SSJ3 Goku was completely disadvantaged, ending up draining a lot of energy more than he could regain.) Plus, if we go by the fact that Broly's power even in his restrained SSJ form was more powerful than ASSJ Vegeta (he was unphased by Vegeta's attacks), as well as the earlier showcasing of him completely defeating two ASSJs, two MSSJs, and a Super Namek with little effort on his part, and the former characters not even being able to wound him at any point, it is very likely that his LSSJ form is at least a bit stronger than SSJ3 (a SSJ3 is equivalent to eight SSJs, Movie 8 Broly's LSSJ form is implied to be equivalent to, if not greater than, nine SSJs), and Movie 10 obviously makes it clear that he's stronger than in Movie 8, and thus a lot stronger than a SSJ3. This is just going by facts stated in the series. As I said, I really don't care much for the character. [[User:Weedle McHairybug|Weedle McHairybug]] 00:44, May 14, 2011 (UTC)
 
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I don't even care one way or another for the character, yet even I could see some fallacies by the people who claim that Broly's weaker than Cell or any of that. Broly's power is probably on par with Kid Buu right now. Kid Buu's power is limitless, and Broly's power is heavily implied to increase as long as he is in LSSJ form. Because of that, Kid Buu is probably the only one to actually stand a chance against Broly (It's also heavily implied that Kid Buu is probably stronger than SSJ3 Goku, especially considering the fact that Kid Buu managed to beat him up a lot, and plus, SSJ3 Goku was completely disadvantaged, ending up draining a lot of energy more than he could regain.) Plus, if we go by the fact that Broly's power even in his restrained SSJ form was more powerful than ASSJ Vegeta (he was unphased by Vegeta's attacks), as well as the earlier showcasing of him completely defeating two ASSJs, two MSSJs, and a Super Namek with little effort on his part, and the former characters not even being able to wound him at any point, it is very likely that his LSSJ form is at least a bit stronger than SSJ3 (a SSJ3 is equivalent to eight SSJs, Movie 8 Broly's LSSJ form is implied to be equivalent to, if not greater than, nine SSJs), and Movie 10 obviously makes it clear that he's stronger than in Movie 8, and thus a lot stronger than a SSJ3. This is just going by facts stated in the series. As I said, I really don't care much for the character.
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'''broly is nowhere near kid buu. he is below ssj2 kid gohan and ssj2 goku. kid buu has no limitations to his regeneration, absorption and power supply. broly has a limit as he was starting to have trouble with goku at the end of the movie, the same goku he slapped around at the start of the movie. he was losing power. and his ki tried to rise but as we know, he had to expell his power. kid buu doesnt have to do that. when he increases, he gets more buff. broly had no change in power. '''
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'''broly rssj being stronger than non charged up assj vegetas attacks doesnt mean anything. supressed perfect cell did the same thing (shrugged off a neck kick full of vegetas power). cell jrs and hatchyack and bojack did the same thing (shrugging off mssjs and assjs). its not likely, in fact its impossible. broly would be destroyed with ease in seconds by ssj3 goku. movie 8 broly was barely perfect cell level so movie 10 broly still has no chance as he lost to three ssj1s. three ssj1s who would lose with ease to ssj3 goku. '''
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[[User:Weedle McHairybug|Weedle McHairybug]] 00:44, May 14, 2011 (UTC)
   
 
== Hildegarn ==
 
== Hildegarn ==
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Cell, Dabura, and Bojack were all roughly the same strength - below or on par with a super saiyan 2. I've never seen the Cooler movies actually so I can't speak for him. Hirudegarn owned pretty much everyone at the same time, and Janemba owned SSJ3 Goku and SSJ2? Vegeta with ease. In terms of power, Hirudegarn and Janemba obviously have a huge advantage. They also share a similar unique weakness: Hirudegarn becomes vulnerable when enraged and Janemba is damaged by insults. Against the other fighters, however, I don't think these weaknesses would even matter. Pikkon, who was stronger than Cell, used Janemba's weakness against him but was still KO'd almost immediately. SSJ3 Goku used Hirudegarn's weakness to kill him, but still took several hard shots from the monster in the process - shots that probably would have taken out Cell, Dabura, or Bojack. So it comes down to Janemba vs Hirudegarn. Both are too mindless and unintelligible to take advantage of each others' weakness directly. In terms of brute strength, Hirudegarn probably has a slight advantage. But in practice, Janemba would most likely win, and here's why I think so. Janemba's portal attacks and dimension sword must be some of the most frustrating moves to go against. After suffering repeated surprise undefendable blows, Hirudegarn would lose his temper and eventually allow himself to get caught with a finishing move.
 
Cell, Dabura, and Bojack were all roughly the same strength - below or on par with a super saiyan 2. I've never seen the Cooler movies actually so I can't speak for him. Hirudegarn owned pretty much everyone at the same time, and Janemba owned SSJ3 Goku and SSJ2? Vegeta with ease. In terms of power, Hirudegarn and Janemba obviously have a huge advantage. They also share a similar unique weakness: Hirudegarn becomes vulnerable when enraged and Janemba is damaged by insults. Against the other fighters, however, I don't think these weaknesses would even matter. Pikkon, who was stronger than Cell, used Janemba's weakness against him but was still KO'd almost immediately. SSJ3 Goku used Hirudegarn's weakness to kill him, but still took several hard shots from the monster in the process - shots that probably would have taken out Cell, Dabura, or Bojack. So it comes down to Janemba vs Hirudegarn. Both are too mindless and unintelligible to take advantage of each others' weakness directly. In terms of brute strength, Hirudegarn probably has a slight advantage. But in practice, Janemba would most likely win, and here's why I think so. Janemba's portal attacks and dimension sword must be some of the most frustrating moves to go against. After suffering repeated surprise undefendable blows, Hirudegarn would lose his temper and eventually allow himself to get caught with a finishing move.
   
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'''dabura > cell > bojack > broly. just so you know. hirudegarn isnt vulnerable when enraged. but he can only be hit when solidified. madara uchiha has the same weakness but hirudegarn has no known limitations to his mist form. pikkon is not stronger than cell. he got off a lucky off guard shot. at best hes a little stronger than mssj goku. janemba isnt that mindless. he cant talk but hes not retarded. hirudegarn too. '''
Oh yeah... I forgot about Broly. Oops. Eh I'll let someone else debate where he would place in the battle.
 
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<p style="margin-left: 40px; ">Vulnerable meaning that he leaves himself open to attack.</p>
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Oh yeah... I forgot about Broly. Oops. Eh I'll let someone else debate where he would place in the battle.
   
 
== Either Janemba or Hirudegarn. ==
 
== Either Janemba or Hirudegarn. ==
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== Super Perfect Cell wins. ==
 
== Super Perfect Cell wins. ==
   
Super Perfect Cell wins like this. Frieza finds out that Cell has his cells in him but he has Human, Namekian and Sayian cells in him so Frieza kills him not knowing that he can zenkai. Hildegarn and Janemba team up killing Dabura. Frieza and '''''Meta '''''Cooler (In the movie it says Meta not '''''Mecha)''''' team up and go against Broly and Bojack. They both do their respective Supernovas, but realizing that it was a mistake and seeing that Bojack and Broly attack the Supernovas with Death Charger and Omega Blaster.and they explode killing Frieza and Cooler while Cell still zenkaing in cell form eats the cells of Dabura, Frieza, and Meta Cooler's microscopic parts inpowering him even more. Then Hildegarn's souls gets taken by Janemba strenghing Janemba. Cell finishes zenkaing and asbores Janemba and Bojack. Cell gets killed by Broly but regenrates and knocks Broly asleep and asbores Broly. WINNER-Cell
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Super Perfect Cell wins like this. Frieza finds out that Cell has his cells in him but he has Human, Namekian and Sayian cells in him so Frieza kills him not knowing that he can zenkai. Hildegarn and Janemba team up killing Dabura. Frieza and '''''Meta '''''Cooler (In the movie it says Meta not '''''Mecha)''''' team up and go against Broly and Bojack. They both do their respective Supernovas, but realizing that it was a mistake and seeing that Bojack and Broly attack the Supernovas with Death Charger and Omega Blaster.and they explode killing Frieza and Cooler while Cell still zenkaing in cell form eats the cells of Dabura, Frieza, and Meta Cooler's microscopic parts inpowering him even more. Then Hildegarn's souls gets taken by Janemba strenghing Janemba. Cell finishes zenkaing and asbores Janemba and Bojack. Cell gets killed by Broly but regenrates and knocks Broly asleep and asbores Broly. WINNER-Cell
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'''janemba cant take souls and cell cant absorb people. '''
   
 
== Trunten 3900 ==
 
== Trunten 3900 ==
Line 300: Line 352:
 
*Cell- he could absorb most of the big fighters before they noticed(then he would get slaughtered if he didn't get enough energy).
 
*Cell- he could absorb most of the big fighters before they noticed(then he would get slaughtered if he didn't get enough energy).
 
*Broly(less likely)- his zenkais(of which he hadn't received any previously) might put him in league Janemba.
 
*Broly(less likely)- his zenkais(of which he hadn't received any previously) might put him in league Janemba.
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*'''broly doesnt get zenkais. gohan apparently said hes the same as he was in movie 8. '''
 
That's about it.
 
That's about it.
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== Janemba or Broly ==
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Janemba is the strongest and can bend reality but if broly didn't go down quick broly and janemba would be the last two standing
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Hirudegan would be exposed because Janemba can bend reality so he could hit him
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Cooler is weak
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Bojack weakn can't regenrate
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cell weak but could asorb someone
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Dabura is a joke
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Broly if he stays alive strength increases
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Janemba is the devil basically. 2000 years of hells residents becoming one being. Let's give him a sword two
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'''if janemba can beat hirudegarn, he would have defeated gogeta. hirudegarn is just much physically stronger and just as much of an unhittable teleporter. broly if he stays alive is killed by the debris of the battle between hirudegarn and janemba. broly cant increase strength without being encased in ice or something. '''
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'''cooler has an entire army at his command. '''
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==Janemba no matter what!==
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Janemba first goes to fight Meta-Cooler, but sees a the Big Gete Star and blows it up because it annoys him. He destoys Cooler and finds Broly being squished by Hirudegarn. Janemba sees Hirudegarn's power and exploes him with a powerful blast. He then kills everyone one by one.
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== A WINNER IS JANEMBA!!11 ==
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Are we talking about a single Meta Cooler? If so, then he dies first; he was killed by two SSJ1s.
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Bojack dies next. He was killed easily by SSJ2 kid Gohan and lacked regeneration abilities (as far as we've seen at least).
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Tough call between Dabura and Cell. I'll assume that Supreme Kai meant he was the same strength as Perfect Cell, since Super Perfect Cell was only around for a few minutes before getting blown away by Gohan. Also, Dabura has never shown regeneration capability so he dies next.
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'''daburaas spit would freeze cell, or cell blows himself up to escape the spit and comes back twice as strong. '''
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Super Perfect Cell dies next. He was obliterated by a severly weakened SSJ2 Gohan, albeit with Vegeta's help.
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'''gohan being weakened was all in his head. '''
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Broly goes next. There's always some debate about how strong he actually is, but for certain weaker than SSJ3 Goku.
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Between Janemba and Hirudegarn, I have to say Janemba takes the victory. Hirudegarn probably overpowers Janemba in brute strength, but in the end he was defeated by SSJ3 Goku who used his weakness of anger against him. Hirudegarn would probably become pretty pissed at Janemba's portal ability and get chopped to bits by the dimension sword.
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'''no goku was saved only by dragon fist, the strongest attack in the series. he cant get weaker just by being pissed off. and hirudegarns mist teleport is a counter to the dimension portals and the sword. '''
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<p style="margin-left: 40px; ">Hirudegarn's anger is a strategic weakness, he doesn't physically become weaker. He gets mad and leaves himself open to attack. And if he were raging, he probably wouldn't use the mist form to dodge or escape.</p>

Revision as of 17:04, 15 June 2011

Forum Super Perfect Cell vs.Demon King Dabura vs. Hildegarn vs.Janemba vs. Bojack vs Mecha Cooler vs. Broly :Who wins?



Let's say,give Cell,Dabura,Hildegarn,Janemba,Bojack,Cooler,and Broly;the Planet Namek to battle it out;last one standing wins;battle to the death.Who wins?

First Cooler would die,then Bojack,then Dabura,then either Cell or Broly would die,followed by the other one.Janemba would win.------------Ucell

I'm going to say tie between Janemba and Hirudegarn. BrolythelegendFile:Broly 7.jpg 12:25, April 6, 2010 (UTC)

Has to be Janemba, it took a fusion to beat him where as Super Saiyan 3 Goku could not, where as the Hirudegarn was just a Super Saiyan 3  SSJ4 Lewich  talk  contribs  12:43, April 6, 2010 (UTC)

personally out of all the choices, broly is my favorite. but if i'm gonna be specific, i'd say janemba as it took the fusion of both goku and vegeta to beat him. hirudegarn was easily beaten by ss3 goku. but, unless u count in broly's ss3 form, then it may be a different story.TheDarkPrinceReturns! 14:10, April 6, 2010 (UTC)

Hirudegarn will own all. NomadMusik, the Underdog. 21:45, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

i think

my view on this would have to be Broly pulling off the win, with his ever increasing power and him only being defeated truly by being shot into the sun he is unstoppable, and with every fight saiyans get stronger. So he is my choice, and if for some reason things get tricky then my second choice would have to be Janemba

an interesting battle but

Broly is incredibly strong, in budokai tenkaichi 3, some of those character's punches don't even affect him like full power bojack. Out of all of them his DP points are the highest being 9/10 in tenkaichi 3 while the others are either 8 or 7.Cell, dabura, bojack, and cooler would easily die. Janemba doesn't have his homeground of hell so he'd die. Broly would easily tire Hirudegarn and then Hirudegarn would die which would make Broly the winner. Broly is stronger than super namek piccolo, ascensded super saiyan vegeta and trunks, and full power super saiyan goku and gohan. Gogeta and Broly have also been shown fighting in minor things like Budokai 3's opening in which Broly is beating Gogeta and then a wounded Gogeta attacks him with kamehameha. Gogeta is stronger than janemba which would make broly stronger than him. Hirdegarn is all bronze no brain.

Broly???

Are you seriously going to base Broly's power level off of some video games? The games are WAY too inaccurate. Broly is DEFINITELY NOT at a level of Janemba. It's almost a fact. Super Saiyan 3 Goku had a hard time with Janemba, and Goku around Super Saiyan 1 with some boosted energy from the other Z Fighters(might have boosted him to Super Saiyan 2 level, idk) defeated Broly no problem.


Broly would be decimated by Janemba. It's pretty much a final bout between Janemba and Hirudegarn. But then again, I'm only going to consider ONLY IF Broly if he lasts a long time, because of his unique ability of increasing his powers as he fights.

Think About This.

All Saiyans when near death and pushed to their limits get exponentially stronger, now think about this, Broly never got pushed to his limits in any of his battles. If he truly exerted all of his power just imagine how strong he would be. So he'd win!

Not Exactly...

I'm not using the game as a hardcore source, it was just an example for tiers in the game and Goku didn't easily beat Broly as SSJ1, he only "beat" him because he re-opened the wound Broly recieved as a child. If each character in this brawl is at their fullest then broly would probably beat Janemba because one of the major things that added to Janemba's power which made SSJ3 Goku had trouble was the ability to teleport and use Hell to his advantage when as for here it says Namek, Janemba is really strong don't get me wrong (he's one of my fav characters) but he can't fight in other environments - Banshee_Blast75


You Broly fans are ignorant. Seriously, Broly had no chance. Sure, the others would die except Hirugedarn and Janemba. Broly would get smashed by Hirugedarn's foot. And if that didn't happen, he would get kicked or blasted into the Sun by Janemba (who could control reality itself).

Janemba dosn't need the swirling, distorted, dimension disoriented Hell to defeat his enemies. He can do freakin' Lightning Shower Rain in any evironment, as well as teleportation, and even dimension sword slash (if he had access to the weapon). He is nearly indestructable.

1st of Mecha Cooler is not that strong he's well under Piccolo and weaker then Android 18 so Piccolo can beat Mecha Cooler so theres no way he could fight on par with Broly right? the winner of this battle is Janemba Soilder5679 18:22, April 20, 2011 (UTC)

well......

lets see Dabura would fail horribly at life, what would happen is he would own cell then get raped by 100 Bazillian meta cooler clones.

Cell would get ran over by a bus. even though i really like him as a charactor and he has the hyper regeneration of epic win, he would just get discombobulated by pretty much everyone but cooler.

meta cooler is alright, though the weakest. he does have the ability to just make infinite copies of himself, however still not being able to deal any damage would make him fail horribly by fact of just existing=/=winning, he wouldn't win, hoever he would survive.

Bojack isn't worth think about, he would fail, the worst, though stronger then cooler, he is weaker then cell, who is SSJ2 exact strength i'd argue by the end of GT.

hildegarn is strong and neigh invincible, as well as the space time phasing, but janemba would just eat him, literally in his first form XD

Janemba is holy God S*** strong, and can just remove things from existance at will, he can manipulate reality like a playtoy and honestly since he is more or less the master of EVERYTHING! he should have jsut destroyed gogeta, however the inly reason he didn't is because of the fact that since it's a DBZ movie, the god guys have to win, and even then it wasn't a total win, vegeta was still dead, The first fusion veku failed so badly it was hilarious, and seriously hell and reality was royally screwed up from it, as well as goku very nearly died, end of discussion.

Broly is hyper strong, he starts out as pretty much the second weakest though. he has the absolute invincbility, gets only stronger as time goes by and can only get royally owned by the sun. by bet is he would make it to the end only for janemba to blow him up by making a sun inside of him


The anwser to this is simple: Janemba wins, end of discussion, with the infinite meta-coolers being his playtoys for the rest of eternity. the only one with a chance for real against him is super buu, post gohan absorbtion and thats because:

A. both can manipulate reality at will

B. Buu can eat him and just straight win.

C. this Buu is literally the only one of his forms smart enough to not fail and do stupid stuff and lose.

A.

hirudegarn wins

"Has to be Janemba, it took a fusion to beat him where as Super Saiyan 3 Goku could not, where as the Hirudegarn was just a Super Saiyan 3"

goku only beat hirudegarn cos he was stronger than in movie 12, and had to use his strongest attack while exploiting hirudegarns weakness. janemba toyed with a weaker version of goku doesnt mean he can beat hirudegarn.

"hirudegarn was easily beaten by ss3 goku"

how is needing to exploit a weakness and using your strongest attack to barely win while hurt and tired "easily beating" him?

"my view on this would have to be Broly pulling off the win"

completely impossible. hes one shotted and squashed in seconds.

" with his ever increasing power"

doesnt exist. broly doesnt "ever increase"

" him only being defeated truly by being shot into the sun he is unstoppable"

hes very stoppable if three ssj1s was all it took to kill him, and he couldnt even take a punch from ssj1 goku

"Cell, dabura, bojack, and cooler would easily die"

cooler is practically unkillable thanks to his army of clones. cell and dabura defeat broly with ease.

"Broly would easily tire Hirudegarn"

hirudegarn never showed any signs he can be out of breath ever. he one shotted ultimate gohan and ssj3 gotenks. broly was beaten by three ssj1s.

"Broly is stronger than super namek piccolo, ascensded super saiyan vegeta and trunks, and full power super saiyan goku and gohan. "

and? goku stated hatchyack was stronger than broly and hatchyacks no match for ssj2 kid gohan who is no match for ssj2 vegeta who was bitchslapped and knocked out by hirudegarns tail alone.

". Gogeta and Broly have also been shown fighting in minor things like Budokai 3's opening "

doesnt count.

"Hirdegarn is all bronze no brain"

hes a good fighter when it calls for it. ultimate gohan couldnt touch him. ultimate gohan would kill broly with his pinky.

"because of his unique ability of increasing his powers as he fights."

you do know kid buu and cell are capable of that?

"All Saiyans when near death and pushed to their limits get exponentially stronger"

so why did vegeta get stronger after NOT being pushed to near death vs recoome, but gohan didnt get any stronger at all after being healed by dende after fighting buutenks and nearly dying?

", Broly never got pushed to his limits in any of his battles"

hes already at full power. so why would he power up further than 100%? and prove he wasnt fighting at full capacity. you cant. he had no reason not to when being pushed millions of miles to a star.

"he only "beat" him because he re-opened the wound Broly recieved as a child"

which is impossible as re opening a wound doesnt make anyone explode, nor does punching them in a place nowhere near the stab wound. he was punched in the gut and stabbed in the chest.

". If each character in this brawl is at their fullest then broly would probably beat Janemba "

IT TOOK GOGETA TO BEAT JANEMBA BUT THREE SSJ1S TO KILL BROLY! how is broly ever standing a chance in hell?

" Janemba because one of the major things that added to Janemba's power which made SSJ3 Goku had trouble was the ability to teleport"

goku can teleport too. and he still got almost killed without vegetas arrival saving him.

", Janemba is really strong don't get me wrong (he's one of my fav characters) but he can't fight in other environments"

prove it.

"1st of Mecha Cooler is not that strong he's well under Piccolo"

metal cooler has an army of clones and murked mssj goku and ssj vegeta (we know it takes place in the cell games cos dende is guardian.

"lets see Dabura would fail horribly at life"

he turns broly to stone then gets stepped on by hirudegarn.

"Bojack isn't worth think about, he would fail"

bojacks strong, he could match cell and survived being impaled by gohan and cancled out his kamehameha.

"but janemba would just eat him, literally in his first form "

who couldnt defeat ssj3 goku but hirudegarn would murk goku if goku didnt have dragon fist to save him.

" he has the absolute invincbility"

yet was defeated 4 times.

"gets only stronger as time goes by"

you mean weaker.

"by bet is he would make it to the end only for janemba to blow him up by making a sun inside of him "

you mean janemba just flicks him with a finger.

" Janemba wins, end of discussion"

hirudegarn crushes him.


"my view on this would have to be Broly pulling off the win"

completely impossible. hes one shotted and squashed in seconds.

"doesnt exist. broly doesnt "ever increase""

"My power's rising! Overflowing!"/"I'm getting stronger! Yes, much stronger!" anyone?

his ki was rising, not his power. his power cannot increase. when his ki tried to increase, he had to expell it from his body.

h"es very stoppable if three ssj1s was all it took to kill him, and he couldnt even take a punch from ssj1 goku"

Yet he could take several hits from two MSSJs, two ASSJs, and a Super Namek despite the fact that, at least power wise, ASSJ are better (since MSSJs are focused more on conserving energy rather than powering up, MSSJs are technically weaker than ASSJs)? First off, if he truly couldn't even take a punch from SSJ1 Goku, he certainly wouldn't stand a chance against either four SSJs and a Super Namek or two MSSJs, two ASSJs and a Super Namek.

mssjs arent weaker than assjs. are you absolutely off your meds? mssj goku = cell, cell >>>>assj vegeta. secondly, its a plothole retcon but yes broly lost to a goku who was only supported by near dead base saiyans. cell was stated as capable of taking on ssj2 kid son gohan in his super perfect state, who killed 7 cell jrs who beat on vegeta, trunks, goku and piccolo.

"cooler is practically unkillable thanks to his army of clones."

Not really. As the film showed, the clones can only operate if the original Cooler doesn't crash. All Broly has to do is blow up the Big Gete Star, and thus the original Cooler, and they'll spontaneously self destruct, even if he can't handle an entire army of them. Besides which, Goku, Gohan, Piccolo, and Vegeta are far stronger in Movie 8 than in Movie 6, not to mention have new transformations (or in the case of Gohan, could actually go SSJ, never mind MSSJ) and yet they couldn't even beat Broly without donating their powers to Goku, it's a fair chance that he can wipe them out.

is broly smart enough to blow up the star? nope. the army will protect it. and brolys feat isnt impressive. he still lost to ssj goku with near dead base saiyans power.

"cell and dabura defeat broly with ease."

No, not really. After all, Goku implied in Movie 8 that Gohan, even if he went SSJ2 (he's certainly capable of doing so, even if unknowingly, thanks to that ROSAT flashback in Cell's Mighty Breakdown), he'd still be pummeled. Besides which, why take care of Broly if Cell's more of a threat power-wise? As long as Goku and Broly never meet, there's no danger in risking him unleashing his overall power without his father. And as stated before, if Broly truly was weaker than Cell, why didn't they have Goku actually encourage Gohan to utilize his hidden depths and one-shot Broly instead of, well, telling Gohan to flee? As for Dabura, considering how he's officially stated to be at a similar level to Cell, I'd say he really doesn't stand a chance.

goku said in cell games, gohan was the strongest of all the z fighters even in ssj1. if goku thinks gohan doesnt have a chance, then that means goku has lost his mind and sent away the best chance the universe has of survival. since i dont think this is the case, gohan in movie 8 is far weaker than cell games gohan and buu arc teen gohan. dabura was stated by goku as above super perfect cell. spc > broly.

"hirudegarn never showed any signs he can be out of breath ever. he one shotted ultimate gohan and ssj3 gotenks. broly was beaten by three ssj1s."

Broly was only beaten by three SSJ1s out of luck. If you remember, Trunks fired a Ki blast that ended up blocking most of Broly's attempts of pushing the Omega Blaster into the Earth and blowing it up. Had it not been for Trunks' action, it was fairly obvious that the Omega Blaster was going to pushed even further into the planet, kill Goten, Gohan, and probably make Goku cease to exist (I mean, for goodness sakes, when he started shooting eraser cannons into the Omega Blaster, it actually crushed into the cliffside and was beginning to cause the magma to rise).

dont use excuses. trunks didnt divert broly's attention, merely blocking his blasts somehow. this would not depower brolys attack nor weaken broly himself. the three ssj1s simply overpowered his attack and destroyed him by pouring more power into their attack. trunks did nothing. they won by overpowering him.

"and? goku stated hatchyack was stronger than broly and hatchyacks no match for ssj2 kid gohan who is no match for ssj2 vegeta who was bitchslapped and knocked out by hirudegarns tail alone."

Considering the fact that they actually exploited a weakness within Hatchyack (I think firing right when 15 seconds have passed), I really doubt it has anything to do with SSJ2 Teen Gohan being stronger. Besides, technically, Goku stated that he was around Broly strength, and even that doesn't necessarily mean overall. By movie 10, going by what Gohan stated, Movie 10 LSSJ Broly would have been a lot stronger than Movie 8 LSSJ Broly (Gohan stated that Broly was as much as a challenge as the last time they fought, and unlike Movie 8, he was fighting SSJ Broly.)

that was just one ending to that OVA. against super hatchyack, they had to use a genki dama. besides goku stated base hatchyack is stronger than broly. and in movie 10, its unknown if gohan was ssj2, and if he was, he wasnt "just as much a challenge" but superior. you just used an english dub line anyway.

"doesnt count."

How? You mentioned Hatchyack when he was not even a movie-exclusive character, but a character that is exclusive from an interactive walkthrough for a video game/video game character, so if you think he counts enough to mention, then so does the opening for the game.

hatchyack was in an OVA, not a game.

"hes a good fighter when it calls for it. ultimate gohan couldnt touch him. ultimate gohan would kill broly with his pinky."

It depends on which movie Broly was in, really. Movie 8, he'd probably at best tie with Ultimate Gohan. Movie 10, given the implications that Broly grew much stronger in that movie during his coma, I wouldn't be surprised if Ultimate Gohan would have been beaten by LSSJ Broly.

what the fucking hell? broly was NOWHERE NEAR ultimate gohan. ultimate gohan would look at broly and broly would disintegrate. a single ssj1 with the powers of near death base saiyans defeated him at first, then three ssj1s beat him again and not cos of trunks who did nothing to depower brolys efforts. just raised a shield of sorts.

"you do know kid buu and cell are capable of that?"

Kid Buu, yes. Cell, not so much. He himself does have a limit to his power.

cell has no limits as long as he keeps blowing himself up.

"so why did vegeta get stronger after NOT being pushed to near death vs recoome, but gohan didnt get any stronger at all after being healed by dende after fighting buutenks and nearly dying?"

Just because he grows stronger doesn't necessarily mean that he automatically overpowers his enemy. Remember, Vegeta received a Zenkai that should theoretically beat Frieza's third form, but when he fought Frieza's fourth form (who was using only 1% of his overall power), he was absolutely creamed. The same can apply here.

gohan was NO STRONGER AT ALL. as you said, even if it doesnt work, they still increase greatly in power. since this is no longer the case later in the series, the zenkais stop. toriyama simply got rid of that plot device as he had the rosat plot device invented.

"hes already at full power. so why would he power up further than 100%? and prove he wasnt fighting at full capacity. you cant. he had no reason not to when being pushed millions of miles to a star."

I believe Broly stated "If you just let me kill you all before, you wouldn't even be in this sort of pain now!", which implies that he was toying with his victims. Toying with opponents means holding back a large amount of your power.

no he didnt. thats an english dub line and doesnt count. and toying doesnt mean holding back. so sorry.

"IT TOOK GOGETA TO BEAT JANEMBA BUT THREE SSJ1S TO KILL BROLY! how is broly ever standing a chance in hell?"

Not that it matters anyways, considering the fact that most of the other franchises disowned Bio-Broly (it didn't get its own story mode in any of the Budokai Tenkaichi games/fighting games. Even Garlic Jr. got a story mode based on his saga, Bio-Broly got nothing. How is that not disowning the character?), but he at the very least stood enough of a chance to require Goku and Pikkon to go to Hell and calm Broly down from a rampage. But, yet again, thanks to Bio-Broly's lack of mention anywhere else, including the games, it probably doesn't count.

the game company thought not to include him. duh. game company =/= toei. and goku and pikkon went to stop the real broly.

"he turns broly to stone then gets stepped on by hirudegarn."

Broly would probably destroy Dabura before he could utilize the stone spit. Considering the whole thing about Dabura being around the same strength as Super Perfect Cell, if not slightly more, Broly at least during Movie 10 would beat him.

broly doesnt kill right away. you said that yourself. dabura one shots broly by enticing him to charge wildly. and movie 10 broly cannot defeat super perfect cell and had trouble with ssj1 teen gohan. so there you go.

"bojacks strong, he could match cell and survived being impaled by gohan and cancled out his kamehameha."

And got killed by SSJ2 Gohan nonetheless, and was overall scared by SSJ2 Gohan's power. Heck, unlike against LSSJ Broly in Movie 8, Goku actually maintained a very firm belief that Gohan would beat Bojack even before Gohan actually met him. Considering that, it's still likely that Movie 8 LSSJ Broly would cream Bojack. Stats wise, that's the plausable scenario.

bojack wasnt scared of gohan. he was only killed because he was outmatched. and gohan didnt have the ability to go ssj2 in movie 8. your point is retarded and suggests that ssj1 goku movie 8 stood more of a chance than ssj2 kid gohan despite that not being the case. bojack creamed fighters stronger than the ones that faced broly.

"who couldnt defeat ssj3 goku but hirudegarn would murk goku if goku didnt have dragon fist to save him."

Broly was able to defeat easily what was the equivalent of nine super saiyans without breaking a sweat and certainly without receiving any wounds in Movie 8 prior to Broly being defeated by a punch to the stomach.

broly only defeated 5 ssj1s. and was almost killed by one punch from ssj1 goku with the power of near dead base saiyans. hirudegarn was defeated only by the strongest single attack in the dbz universe.

"yet was defeated 4 times."

Four? I only saw him defeated twice, in Movie 8 and Movie 10. Before anyone mentions it, no, Bio Broly doesn't count since A. most of the movie ended up being ignored by pretty much everything else, at least in terms of the games, and B. Even if it were counted by the other Dragon Ball franchise, Bio Broly was a clone of Broly, not Broly himself.

bio broly doesnt count because you say so. bio broly has broly's dna and fighting skills. he counts.

1. defeated by king vegeta as a baby. 2. defeated by goku in movie 8. 3. defeated by goku gohan goten. 4. defeated by trunks and seawater. 5. defeated by goku and pikkon in hell.

"you mean weaker."

Nope, he means stronger. At no point was it ever implied that he actually grows weaker. If anything, especially the whole "My Power's rising, Overflowing!"/"I'm getting stronger! Yes, much stronger!" that he actually grows much stronger while in his LSSJ form.

no "my ki is rising! its overflowing!" as you know, overflowing means his power is pouring out of him. he cannot control it nor handle it being in his body. we know he was losing power because he began to be frustrated and having trouble with goku at the end of the movie but at the beginning he was beating him around with ease. he got no stronger at all.

Also, I doubt Broly would simply be knocked aside by a finger. Broly Movie 8, maybe, but Movie 10, I have doubts about that. Broly's LSSJ form is probably on par with Janemba, if not even stronger.

broly is nowhere near janemba you goddamn broly fanboy. janemba knocked aside ssj3 goku with his sword. he then kicked the hell out of ssj2 vegeta and pikkon. as we know, it took only one punch from ssj1 cell arc goku to defeat broly, then later 3 ssj1s, then later ssj2 goku combined with pikkon to take broly down. since goku at the end of movie 11 wasnt worried about broly and preferred to eat, then goku >>>broly. and janemba >>>goku. so janemba >>>>broly.

I don't even care one way or another for the character, yet even I could see some fallacies by the people who claim that Broly's weaker than Cell or any of that. Broly's power is probably on par with Kid Buu right now. Kid Buu's power is limitless, and Broly's power is heavily implied to increase as long as he is in LSSJ form. Because of that, Kid Buu is probably the only one to actually stand a chance against Broly (It's also heavily implied that Kid Buu is probably stronger than SSJ3 Goku, especially considering the fact that Kid Buu managed to beat him up a lot, and plus, SSJ3 Goku was completely disadvantaged, ending up draining a lot of energy more than he could regain.) Plus, if we go by the fact that Broly's power even in his restrained SSJ form was more powerful than ASSJ Vegeta (he was unphased by Vegeta's attacks), as well as the earlier showcasing of him completely defeating two ASSJs, two MSSJs, and a Super Namek with little effort on his part, and the former characters not even being able to wound him at any point, it is very likely that his LSSJ form is at least a bit stronger than SSJ3 (a SSJ3 is equivalent to eight SSJs, Movie 8 Broly's LSSJ form is implied to be equivalent to, if not greater than, nine SSJs), and Movie 10 obviously makes it clear that he's stronger than in Movie 8, and thus a lot stronger than a SSJ3. This is just going by facts stated in the series. As I said, I really don't care much for the character.

broly is nowhere near kid buu. he is below ssj2 kid gohan and ssj2 goku. kid buu has no limitations to his regeneration, absorption and power supply. broly has a limit as he was starting to have trouble with goku at the end of the movie, the same goku he slapped around at the start of the movie. he was losing power. and his ki tried to rise but as we know, he had to expell his power. kid buu doesnt have to do that. when he increases, he gets more buff. broly had no change in power.

broly rssj being stronger than non charged up assj vegetas attacks doesnt mean anything. supressed perfect cell did the same thing (shrugged off a neck kick full of vegetas power). cell jrs and hatchyack and bojack did the same thing (shrugging off mssjs and assjs). its not likely, in fact its impossible. broly would be destroyed with ease in seconds by ssj3 goku. movie 8 broly was barely perfect cell level so movie 10 broly still has no chance as he lost to three ssj1s. three ssj1s who would lose with ease to ssj3 goku.


Weedle McHairybug 00:44, May 14, 2011 (UTC)

Hildegarn

He is the strongestSSJ Dude 23:01, May 13, 2011 (UTC)SSJ Dude

Janemba vs Hirudegarn - Janemba wins?

Cell, Dabura, and Bojack were all roughly the same strength - below or on par with a super saiyan 2. I've never seen the Cooler movies actually so I can't speak for him. Hirudegarn owned pretty much everyone at the same time, and Janemba owned SSJ3 Goku and SSJ2? Vegeta with ease. In terms of power, Hirudegarn and Janemba obviously have a huge advantage. They also share a similar unique weakness: Hirudegarn becomes vulnerable when enraged and Janemba is damaged by insults. Against the other fighters, however, I don't think these weaknesses would even matter. Pikkon, who was stronger than Cell, used Janemba's weakness against him but was still KO'd almost immediately. SSJ3 Goku used Hirudegarn's weakness to kill him, but still took several hard shots from the monster in the process - shots that probably would have taken out Cell, Dabura, or Bojack. So it comes down to Janemba vs Hirudegarn. Both are too mindless and unintelligible to take advantage of each others' weakness directly. In terms of brute strength, Hirudegarn probably has a slight advantage. But in practice, Janemba would most likely win, and here's why I think so. Janemba's portal attacks and dimension sword must be some of the most frustrating moves to go against. After suffering repeated surprise undefendable blows, Hirudegarn would lose his temper and eventually allow himself to get caught with a finishing move.

dabura > cell > bojack > broly. just so you know. hirudegarn isnt vulnerable when enraged. but he can only be hit when solidified. madara uchiha has the same weakness but hirudegarn has no known limitations to his mist form. pikkon is not stronger than cell. he got off a lucky off guard shot. at best hes a little stronger than mssj goku. janemba isnt that mindless. he cant talk but hes not retarded. hirudegarn too.

Vulnerable meaning that he leaves himself open to attack.

Oh yeah... I forgot about Broly. Oops. Eh I'll let someone else debate where he would place in the battle.

Either Janemba or Hirudegarn.

Logically they would have the most power out of the choices. Janemba is probably stronger than Hirudegarn, since it took Gogeta to beat him, but Hirudegarn had some weird abilities. One of those two would probably be the winner, but in Dragon Ball power doesn't always = victor, so Ihdk. Tokeupdude 16:31, May 19, 2011 (UTC)

Cell is the Champion!! By the guy who wrote Wolf Pick

Cell is obviously weaker than every other Character except Dabura, he couldn't beat a much weaker ss2 Gohan, but this is how the fight would go.

Hildegarn and Janemba would go all crazy and start fighting each other.

Broly starts screaming and shooting energy blasts everywhere but would end up fighting Mecha Cooler who he often hits.

Cell, Dabura, and Bojack (full power) would start their own fight but Dabura almost instantly is beaten. Cell and Bojack fight.

After a while Dabura would come back and spit on Cell and Bojack hits Cell and they both look down to find Dabura. After a 1 minute talk Dabura reveals his ability as Cell becomes even more of a statue. Cell cuts parts of his body off and regenerates. Cell is interested by this ability and goes down to Dabura. He absorbs the Demon and gains the spit power. He fights Bojack again with more power from Dabura and spits on him.

Everyone else (minus broly and cooler) look over and talk then continue their fight. Friez appears and attacks Bojack talking about how he needs Cell to destroy Goku, but they're really friends (strangely).

Frieza and Cell can't beat Bojack, who cuts his arm off. Cell and Frieza use the fusion dance and merge together but both retain their personalities, Cell took after Friez the most so its natural, and beat Bojack enough to absorb him.

The fusion goes to fight Meta Cooler and Broly (Frieza hates his brother and both of the fusees hate sayians) but easily get beaten. He charges his strongest death ball, Solar Death Ball, in an area that nobody notices and hits Broly with it bringing the saiyan into a bad sitauation. Broly tries to resist but gets hit. Broly is bloody but lives. The fusion teleports behind Broly and absorbs him. The fusion wears off and cell gains all of Broly's power while Frieza gets Bojack's power. Frieza learned instant transmission from the fusion and teleports to the real cooler after seeing all the mechas and kills the real one.

We find Hildegarn completely beaten far away. Janemba smiles and talks about the fight. He then teleports to Cell. They fight but Janemba is winning. Frieza shows up at cell's most dire moment as a mecha frieza. He had merged with the star that increased Cooler's power and made all Mecha Coolers. It turns into a major battle between cell/frieza against janemba. Janemba talks about Frieza and teleports to the main body. He almosts hits him with a killer blow but is killed by Cell who shoots him from behind with a solar kamehameha combined with spit, dabura's move, and kills janemba. Janemba almost teleports but is shot through the head by Frieza's new Full Powered Death Beam.

Super Perfect Cell wins.

Super Perfect Cell wins like this. Frieza finds out that Cell has his cells in him but he has Human, Namekian and Sayian cells in him so Frieza kills him not knowing that he can zenkai. Hildegarn and Janemba team up killing Dabura. Frieza and Meta Cooler (In the movie it says Meta not Mecha) team up and go against Broly and Bojack. They both do their respective Supernovas, but realizing that it was a mistake and seeing that Bojack and Broly attack the Supernovas with Death Charger and Omega Blaster.and they explode killing Frieza and Cooler while Cell still zenkaing in cell form eats the cells of Dabura, Frieza, and Meta Cooler's microscopic parts inpowering him even more. Then Hildegarn's souls gets taken by Janemba strenghing Janemba. Cell finishes zenkaing and asbores Janemba and Bojack. Cell gets killed by Broly but regenrates and knocks Broly asleep and asbores Broly. WINNER-Cell

janemba cant take souls and cell cant absorb people.

Trunten 3900

Hirrudegarn would win no matter what.

The only way he was defeated was when the z-fighters exploited his weakness (which the other villains aren't intelligent enough to discover), whereas the others mentioned where defeated through outright force. Hirrudegarn's ability to turn to mist would allow him to sustain little enough damage to survive long enough to kill the others while they where tired out.

There are a few that have a small chance of winning:

  • Janemba- he took the strongest fighter to defeat(Super Gogeta)
  • Cell- he could absorb most of the big fighters before they noticed(then he would get slaughtered if he didn't get enough energy).
  • Broly(less likely)- his zenkais(of which he hadn't received any previously) might put him in league Janemba.
  • broly doesnt get zenkais. gohan apparently said hes the same as he was in movie 8.

That's about it.

Janemba or Broly

Janemba is the strongest and can bend reality but if broly didn't go down quick broly and janemba would be the last two standing

Hirudegan would be exposed because Janemba can bend reality so he could hit him

Cooler is weak

Bojack weakn can't regenrate

cell weak but could asorb someone

Dabura is a joke

Broly if he stays alive strength increases

Janemba is the devil basically. 2000 years of hells residents becoming one being. Let's give him a sword two

if janemba can beat hirudegarn, he would have defeated gogeta. hirudegarn is just much physically stronger and just as much of an unhittable teleporter. broly if he stays alive is killed by the debris of the battle between hirudegarn and janemba. broly cant increase strength without being encased in ice or something.

cooler has an entire army at his command.

Janemba no matter what!

Janemba first goes to fight Meta-Cooler, but sees a the Big Gete Star and blows it up because it annoys him. He destoys Cooler and finds Broly being squished by Hirudegarn. Janemba sees Hirudegarn's power and exploes him with a powerful blast. He then kills everyone one by one.

A WINNER IS JANEMBA!!11

Are we talking about a single Meta Cooler? If so, then he dies first; he was killed by two SSJ1s.

Bojack dies next. He was killed easily by SSJ2 kid Gohan and lacked regeneration abilities (as far as we've seen at least).

Tough call between Dabura and Cell. I'll assume that Supreme Kai meant he was the same strength as Perfect Cell, since Super Perfect Cell was only around for a few minutes before getting blown away by Gohan. Also, Dabura has never shown regeneration capability so he dies next.

daburaas spit would freeze cell, or cell blows himself up to escape the spit and comes back twice as strong.

Super Perfect Cell dies next. He was obliterated by a severly weakened SSJ2 Gohan, albeit with Vegeta's help.

gohan being weakened was all in his head.

Broly goes next. There's always some debate about how strong he actually is, but for certain weaker than SSJ3 Goku.

Between Janemba and Hirudegarn, I have to say Janemba takes the victory. Hirudegarn probably overpowers Janemba in brute strength, but in the end he was defeated by SSJ3 Goku who used his weakness of anger against him. Hirudegarn would probably become pretty pissed at Janemba's portal ability and get chopped to bits by the dimension sword.

no goku was saved only by dragon fist, the strongest attack in the series. he cant get weaker just by being pissed off. and hirudegarns mist teleport is a counter to the dimension portals and the sword.

Hirudegarn's anger is a strategic weakness, he doesn't physically become weaker. He gets mad and leaves himself open to attack. And if he were raging, he probably wouldn't use the mist form to dodge or escape.