Forum:Ultimate Gohan stronger than Base Vegetto?

Forum → Ultimate Gohan stronger than Base Vegetto?

[[Category:{{{1}}}|Ultimate Gohan stronger than Base Vegetto?]]

Okay, I know I was told by some to stay away from certain forums that say ridiculous things like SSJ Goten post-RoSaT>Perfect Cell, or Base Vegetto>SSJ3 Gogeta, but there was one that really caught my eye and after thinking about it, it's not as ludicrous as the others. This will be long (I think?) so bear with me. Now someone said that Base Vegetto is weaker than Ultimate Gohan and if you've watched the Anime you would know they are full of **** (pardon my language). But the Manga has Vegetto immediately transform into a SSJ. And the Daizenshu, from what I've been told, states that SSJ Vegetto is only three times stronger than Buuhan, which puts Base Vegetto drastically below Buuhan. Now I'm not one to argue with official material, but think I can prove them wrong. Here comes the long part. Now it has been said by numerous fans that post-RoSaT Gotenks is stronger than SSJ3 Goku. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that Base Goten/Trunks post-RoSaT=Base Goku/Vegeta Fusion Saga. That would make SSJ3 Goku 400x stronger (SEG multiplier) stronger than post-RoSaT Goten/Trunks. That means that Base Gotenks is also 400x stronger than Base Goten/Trunks. Now I'm going to leave that out for a second and go into another comparison. A lot of people also say that U.Gohan is 100x stronger than SSJ3 Goku, which to me sounds like an overstatement. I'm not going to go into further detail, but I give U.Gohan at the very most 10x stronger than SSJ3 Goku. Anyways, so U.Gohan is 100x stronger than SSJ3 Goku, which means a Base fusion of Goku and Vegeta via Potara (plus rival boost) is still weaker than U.Gohan, yet a Fusion Dance (whom the people also say is weaker than Potara) of Base Goten and Trunks (with no rival boost) puts them stronger than SSJ3 Goku. That means that Base Gotenks received a 400x boost, but Base Vegetto is still weaker than U.Gohan who is only 100x stronger than SSJ3 Goku. That means, at the most, a Potara Fusion gave Goku and Vegeta a 99% boost, whereas Goten and Trunks received a 400x boost. Either Fusion Dance is is almost four times stronger than Potara, or Daizenshu and these so called "hardcore" fans are out of it. All this info is from what I've read on different forums. This one seemed a little more sound, but still...making Base Vegetto<SSJ3 Goku, but that's just me. Some help with this would be appreciated, as I don't know if there are some mistakes, but again, this is from what I've read from other forums. SuperGogeta91 (talk) 21:36, November 23, 2012 (UTC)

Oops...lol that one sentence was supposed to be "This one seemed a little more sound, but still...making Base Vegetto<*ULTIMATE GOHAN sounds farfetched*, but that's just me" SuperGogeta91 (talk) 21:45, November 23, 2012 (UTC)

Gohan may be stronger[]

Pre-rosat SSJ Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku. Gotenks became significantly stronger post-rosat. Given the SSJ multipliers, this makes SSJ3 Gotenks much more than 8 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku, and Ultimate Gohan is well beyond SSJ3 Gotenks. So at the very minimum, Ultimate Gohan is 3200 times stronger (8x400) than base Goku. Even if the fusion multiplier is 1000x, this would put base Vegetto below Ultimate Gohan, based on observations from the manga alone. Taking into account the anime, base Vegetto is obviously stronger.Janemba4eva (talk) 04:58, November 24, 2012 (UTC)

Why is everything underlined? Anyways, SSJ Gotenks>SSJ3 Goku. Okay, that I got. Post-RoSaT Gotenks, I wouldn't say got 50x stronger in just two weeks. Not even Goku could do that, unless he got a Zenkai. So how much do you rate SSJ3 Gotenks to SSJ3 Goku? 15x stronger? 30x stronger? Ultimate Gohan is at the MOST, two times stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks. There is no way the gap between them is larger than two times. If SSJ3 Gotenks was serious he could definitely fight on par with U.Gohan but would lose, due to being weaker, being less experienced, and having only a five-minute fusion. SuperGogeta91 (talk) 05:04, November 24, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah idk what's up with the formatting. My numbers were very conservative. If Ultimate Gohan were the same strength as SSJ3 Gotenks, and Gotenks got no stronger during the rosat, Ultimate Gohan would still be 3200 times stronger than base Goku, based only on the assumption that SSJ Gotenks >/= SSJ3 Goku, making SSJ3 Gotenks at least 8 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku. To me, it doesn't seem unreasonable to say that Ultimate Gohan is stronger than base Vegetto (for manga only). Janemba4eva (talk) 05:13, November 24, 2012 (UTC)

Aaah, that's much better. Thanks for fixing that Janemba. Here's the problem I'm having though. I'm not comparing U.Gohan to Base Goku, as that would obviously be a difference in the thousands. I'm comparing Base Gotenks to Base Goten/Trunks, and than U.Gohan to Base Vegetto. If a Fusion Dance of two kids with no rival boost, gives them a 400x boost, than a Fusion via Potara with rival boost should give them more than a 400x boost. How come Base Gotenks can be 400x stronger than SSJ3 Goku, but Base Vegetto can't be stronger than U.Gohan (who is only, at the maximum imo, 100x stronger than SSJ3 Goku). That would make Fusion Dance four times stronger than Potara, and we all know what most people would say about that lol. I guess it all depends on how much you have U.Gohan stronger than SSJ3 by. If it's in the thousands, than U.Gohan>Base Vegetto makes sense. I seriously doubt U.Gohan is 1000x stronger than SSJ3 Goku. 1000 is waaay too much. I would put SSJ1/2 Vegetto 1000x stronger than SSJ3 Goku, but that's just me and I haven't really done the math on that one yet. Anyways thanks again for the help Janemba. I would appreciate more information from you regarding this little issue and anyone else who wants to help me with this. SuperGogeta91 (talk) 05:24, November 24, 2012 (UTC)

I'm confused at how you got base Gotenks at 400 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku. The multiplier for the fusion dance might be greater than 400, which would put base Gotenks at >400x stronger than Goten and Trunks, not SSJ3 Goku.Janemba4eva (talk) 05:33, November 24, 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, that was a mistake. I meant, 400x Base Goku. This is what I'm trying to get at. Base Gotenks is 400x stronger than Base Goku. Base Vegetto isn't stronger than U.Gohan, who at the most is 100x stronger than SSJ3 Goku? SuperGogeta91 (talk) 05:45, November 24, 2012 (UTC)

Ok, here's how I see it. Post-rosat base Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku (potentially), so SSJ3 Gotenks is 400x SSJ3 Goku. Super Buu + SSJ3 Gotenks > Ultimate Gohan (Piccolo contributed little power to that fusion), so Ultimate Gohan is ~2x SSJ3 Gotenks. This means Ultimate Gohan is 800x SSJ3 Goku. If the potara multiplier is anywhere between 400 and 800 (which it appears to be), this would make base Vegetto stronger than SSJ3 Goku but weaker than Ultimate Gohan. And it also means that SSJ1 Vegetto is far stronger than all of them. EDIT: Wait, I made a mistake somewhere.... You're right that it doesn't seem to make sense if base Gotenks is that strong.Janemba4eva (talk) 05:57, November 24, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, relative powers....

Goku = 1

SSJ3 Goku = 400

Base Gotenks = 400

SSJ3 Gotenks = 160,000

Ultimate Gohan = 320,000

Buuhan = 640,000?

Anime potara effect > 640,000

Manga potara effect > 12,800

Given these values, anime base Vegetto is stronger than everyone, while manga base Vegetto can be weaker than Gohan (and SSJ3 Gotenks for that matter) and SSJ Vegetto can be stronger than Buuhan. This also suggests that potara is indeed stronger than the fusion dance, making Vegetto > Gogeta... gasp!Janemba4eva (talk) 16:46, November 24, 2012 (UTC)

See that's where my problem comes in. Post-RoSaT Gotenks can't be stronger than SSJ3 Goku, as that would make Ultimate Gohan over 1000x stronger than SSJ3 Goku. Do you know how strong that is? SSJ4 Goku from GT isn't that strong. SSJ3 Goku from GT is 400x stronger than SSJ3 Goku, and we all know that SSJ3 Goku is even stronger than Super Vegetto. I know this is GT, but I take it into account to measure power levels. GT has everyone's power levels through the roof, and even then SSJ3 Goku GT, at the most, is 400x stronger than SSJ3 Goku from Buu Saga. So I guess this whole topic is opinionated...if you think U.Gohan is anything over 400x stronger than SSJ3 Goku, than Base Vegetto is weaker. If not, than he's stronger. Personally I think U.Gohan is nothing over 10x stronger than SSJ3 Goku. It would be too much to give him anything higher than 10x, IMO. SuperGogeta91 (talk) 22:17, November 24, 2012 (UTC)

Forgot one thing. Where does it prove that Vegetto>Gogeta? SuperGogeta91 (talk) 22:18, November 24, 2012 (UTC)

Ignoring the GT implications, it's not unreasonable to say that base Gotenks = SSJ3 Goku. Pre-rosat base Gotenks did ok against Buu, better than SSJ2 Vegeta at least. He got much stronger post-rosat, so given events from the show, it's plausible that post-rosat base Gotenks was comparable to SSJ3 Goku. If we go by the "established multipliers," this would make Gohan at least 800x stronger than SSJ3 Goku. If this is true, it means that the effect of potara must be greater than that of the dance in order to give Vegetto such a high power boost, which would also mean that Vegetto > Gogeta. If nothing else, this topic shows that the "multipliers" are inconsistent. These inconsistencies then carry on over to GT.

Another possibility is that SSJ Gotenks is the one that's stronger than SSJ3 Goku. Then:

Base Goku = 1

SSJ3 Goku = 400

SSJ Gotenks > 400

SSJ3 Gotenks > 3,200

Ultimate Gohan > 6,400

Buuhan > 12,800

Assuming potara gives a 400x boost, Base Vegetto = 400

SSJ Vegetto = 20,000

So, if SSJ Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku > Base Gotenks, it's believable that SSJ Vegetto > Gohan > Base Vegetto. If Base Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku, then the values are too high to make any type of sense.Janemba4eva (talk) 17:17, November 25, 2012 (UTC)

Even if we ignore GT, the multiplications become ridiculous. Like I said earlier, SSJ3 GT Goku is looked at by people as someone who is uber and could demolish the entire DBZ universe, and he's only 400x stronger than SSJ3 Z Goku...how does U.Gohan all of a sudden double that? This is why I don't know where people got the impression that post-RoSaT Base Gotenks got 50x stronger in just two weeks. In all honestly, there are two scenerios. Either post-RoSaT Base Gotenks isn't as strong as everyone makes him out to be, or Toriyama made a mistake and screwed up badly. There's no way that U.Gohan is 800x stronger than SSJ3 Goku. FPSSJ Gohan was getting torn up by Perfect Cell, and suddenly a 2x power up gives him the upper hand? Again, the whole "post-RoSaT Gotenks>=SSJ3 Goku, is fan made. I don't see anywhere where this is fact, even if Piccolo stated he was a bit stronger. And about the Potara>Fusion...I was speaking about Manga Vegetto, not Anime Vegetto...as the whole point of the topic was how people think Manga Vegetto is weaker than U.Gohan. Base Vegetto never displayed anything in the Manga so it gives people reason to believe that U.Gohan>>Base Vegetto, which if going by proper power levels, would still be wrong. Anime Vegetto/Gogeta have both shown to be rape-tier. SuperGogeta91 (talk) 17:50, November 25, 2012 (UTC)

Depends[]

My mistake...[]

I realized I made a mistake from the start. I put Base Gotenks post-RoSaT=SSJ3 Goku and U.Gohan only 100x, at the most, stronger...which would make SSJ3 Gotenks four times stronger than U.Gohan and we know that is absolutely false. Ignore everything I wrote, because, unless Fusion gets a different SSJ1/2/3 Multiplier, Gohan should be around 800x stronger than SSJ3 Goku which sounds really farfetched. Anyways, I'll just say that I don't believe Base Gotenks post-RoSaT is equal to SSJ3 Goku and that U.Gohan is 800x stronger than SSJ3 Goku. SuperGogeta91 (talk) 17:58, November 25, 2012 (UTC)

Well yeah, if Base Gotenks >/= SSJ3 Goku, the powers become outright ridiculous and potara must give a massive boost compared to the dance in order to bridge that gap, making manga Vegetto stronger than a hypothetical manga Gogeta, and also creating inconsistencies in GT. However, if SSJ Gotenks >/= SSJ3 Goku, the powers make more sense and base Vegetto can be realistically weaker than Ultimate Gohan, as I've shown in my previous post. From the manga, all we know for sure is that SSJ Vegetto > Ultimate Gohan, but is SSJ Vegetto over 50x stronger than Ultimate Gohan? If not, then Gohan > Base Vegetto.Janemba4eva (talk) 18:32, November 25, 2012 (UTC)

Daizenshuu states that Super Vegetto is only three times stronger than Buuhan, so no I don't think Base Vegetto>U.Gohan. Then again I don't trust most of anything the Daiz states, since it's been known to make a lot of mistranslations and mistakes. I'd put more trust in the GT Perfect Files than the Daiz. SuperGogeta91 (talk) 01:28, November 26, 2012 (UTC)

Invalid[]

===INVALID===

I thought some of you Gohan fanboys would've jumped all over this! Base Vegito would utterly beat the living shit out of Gohan. I thought Gohan was the strongest UNFUSED character. Vegito's a fused character right!? There case closed!

Anime Vegetto would clearly give U.Gohan 3 more buttholes. But Manga Vegetto, by some fans, is believe to be weaker than U.Gohan. I tried to give facts on how that's false, but I made an error in my calculation. Anyways, I do agree with you. I think Manga Base Vegetto is still stronger than U.Gohan. 24.57.166.119 04:47, November 27, 2012 (UTC)

is this a joke? vegito atleast using his half power was slightly stronger than buuhan. buuhan=gohan mystic+buu+goten base trunks base and piccalo. so vegito using his full power nd mystic gohan using his full power is like this!

vegito base using half power=500

buuhan trying his hardest=490

mystic gohan trying his hardest=430

vegito base trying his hardest =700

so vegito base>>>>>>>>>mystic gohan

Vegito[]

There is a simple answer to this question: Vegito. Vegito, even in base form, could utterly obliterate Ultimate Gohan. And we know this for one reason. Base Vegito could deflect the most powerful attack from Buuhan, who has the power of Super Buu, Piccolo, Trunks, Goten, and Ultimate Gohan. If he could beat someone who had Ultimate Gohan's power and MORE, then Vegito could easily win, no questions asked.

Evolve 20 (talk) 00:02, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

^I think you just read the topic and not see what I wrote further down. Manga Base Vegetto did no such thing. He transformed IMMEDIATELY. Meaning, all that stuff where he knocks Buuhan's attack, and kicks him around a few times, NEVER happened. Which is why I stated how manga Base Vegetto would do against U.Gohan. Anime Base Vegetto destroys him for obvious reasons. SuperGogeta91 (talk) 01:43, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

Animes are notorious for putting some dumb stuff in them, Base Vegito being above Ultimate Gohan is well, he could technically be and we wouldn't be able to prove otherwise, but that will make the fusion multiplier to be too damn high, like in 4 digits, which is just too much to accept.

SSJ6Vegeta (talk) 01:56, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

Where?[]

I've never heard of the daizenshuu saying super vegito is 3 times stronger than super buu with gohan absorbed. Can someone show me?--Ssj3gogeta96 (talk) 02:59, October 29, 2013 (UTC)ssj3gogeta96

Gohan[]

Gohan would destroy Base Vegetto as far as I'm concerned. Gohan had his potential drawn fay beyond his limits (and his potential was already huge). There's no reason to have another base saiyan that high, especially considering how weak base Goku and base Vegeta are to Ultimate Gohan.

In numbers:

Base Vegetto - 16

SSJ Gogeta - 26

Ultimate Gohan - 150 SSJ2 Gogeta (talk) 18:26, January 9, 2015 (UTC)