This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Broly article.
Return of Broly and Bio-Broly
I'm thinking that this page could be better by adding a summary of Broly's life from the movies "The Return of Broly" and "Bio-Broly". This page just captures how Goku and Vegeta and the gang meet Broly for the first time. I don't know the plotlines of either movies well enough to add my contributions though. Just stating that should be a later addition. —Unsigned comment by 22.214.171.124 (talk • contribs).
Ok, I have gotten sick and tired of editing both Broly's and his Legendary super Saiyan article due to which form Gohan had when he battled Broly in the 10th movie. Gohan was in SSJ2 form for the initial part of the fight against Broly's LSSJ form. Just because He didn't have any sparks around his aura doesn't mean that he wasn't SSJ2. Remember, Toei often neglects sparks in certain scenes. Heck, even the MANGA had neglected showing sparks from time to time (Especially when it first debuted in the Cell Games.), and even IF Broly's LSSJ form was weaker than an SSJ2, we don't have any ACTUAL sources to prove that (and before anyone mentions it, the video games don't count.), so unless someone has a source from the creator saying that SSJ2 is stronger than LSSJ, we shouldn't mention that at all. Also, stop editing it to say that LSSJ is weaker than SSJ2.Borly strongest mother fucker.126.96.36.199 17:47, March 18, 2013 (UTC)
- Gohan wasn't fighting in super saiyan 2 form. It was clearly just super saiyan. (None of ssj2 characteristics are present). So stop puttung super saiyan 2 in the article. I agree that there is no sense in comparing ssj2 and ussj2, because the movie is not canon and the two forms never met. Avada 17:35, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
- ^Except for Maybe the fact that his facial features were much, much more sterner (as a matter of fact, his face looked VERY similar to SSJ2 Teen Gohan, and by the time of the Buu saga, the typical characteristics of a FPSSJ [ie, the regular forms face], was permanently incorporated into a regular SSJ [as seen with Goten], so it HAD to be SSJ2.), as well as the fact that his aura was VERY similar to an SSJ2. Also, don't you mean LSSJ and SSJ2? And anyways, maybe they aren't of MANGA canon, but they are definitely canon considering that Akira was actually credited as the guy who wrote the stories to the movies on this site (and maybe the credits).
- I didn't notice any significant facial change. If it really were ssj2 then then the drawers/animators surely wouldn' forget about the most important characteristics of this form. The sparks and the spiky hair. The film can not be considered canon because it doesn't fit. If it were after the fight with perfect cell Son Goku would be dead, gohan would be ssj2 and trunks would have gone back to his time. If it were before the fight, then gohan wouldn't be a Super saiyan. Avada 22:07, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
- ^Except for Maybe the fact that his facial features were much, much more sterner (as a matter of fact, his face looked VERY similar to SSJ2 Teen Gohan, and by the time of the Buu saga, the typical characteristics of a FPSSJ [ie, the regular forms face], was permanently incorporated into a regular SSJ [as seen with Goten], so it HAD to be SSJ2.), as well as the fact that his aura was VERY similar to an SSJ2. Also, don't you mean LSSJ and SSJ2? And anyways, maybe they aren't of MANGA canon, but they are definitely canon considering that Akira was actually credited as the guy who wrote the stories to the movies on this site (and maybe the credits).
Sigh... I'll Post Pictures from Broly: Second Coming, and right after Gohan becomes SSJ2 at the tournament to show comparisons as soon as I get some stuff first to provide comparisons. and also, Spiky Hair? Ummm... Last time I checked, ALL Super Saiyan Transformations have spiky hair (aside from MAYBE SSJ4, but that's debatable).
Also, I see you're talking about the first broly movie, And I just wanted to point out that the flashback in "The Horror won't end" (I think that was in the manga, however, please correct me if I am mistaken) said that Cell was closely monitored by Dr. Gero (or rather, Android 20) up to his death, despite Imperfect cell clearly stating in his introduction that Dr. Gero let the computer finish the job so he can focus on more recent projects.
Android 17 discovered blueprints for Cell despite Trunks and Krillin never finding ANY blueprints of him.
And, of course, there was the fact that he was an Android despite the fact that Cell's flashback never even HAD him as an Android.
also, in the buu saga, Piccolo said that Majin Vegeta will go to hell since he caused too much pain and suffering, and yet Piccolo (BEFORE being fused with Kami) wasn't that much different from Vegeta at that time, and he STILL got to go to King Kai's planet for training DESPITE causing pain and suffering for most of his life (that's COUNTING Damiao, his "father").
So before referencing plotholes that can't make Movies fit in the timeline, remember that the Manga ALSO had these same kinds of plotholes (Esp. in the Buu Saga).
BTW, I'll Post pics of Gohan's SSJ2 form in the Tournament and his SSJ/SSJ2 form in the second Broly movie as soon as I upload them and do some editing (I want to make absolute certain that the face [Yes, the face] is the main focus, not the sparks, the FACE).
Uploaded a few images
I thought i might upload some better Images of Broly if that's ok. AngusNitro41 9:59pm 27th june 2008 (UTC)
Broly Being The Strongest Character?
I recently got these infos from Japanese websites and heard some strange talk on Broly being the strongest character in entire DB universe even stronger than Gogeta SSJ4. Well this info says;
This quote kinda means Broly is strongest in 1 on 1, hand to hand battle since nobody even match the strength of Broly in the series and movies therefore Koyama says he is the most fearsome and strongest of all characters in DB series and so on.
And also the DVD guidebook says within TV animation and manga and all the movies Broly's strength is recorded to be the most powerful character that nobody could beat on 1 on 1 battle.
and plus the last part of this quote says Broly's strength is something that cannot be mesured and it is constantly rising and rising.
 ========================================================================================================= Based on these infos well Japanese people says Broly is the strongest character who could outclass Gogeta 4 and they fight about these. I personally think Broly can be beaten well by probably SSJ3 level or Ultimate Gohan would do. What do you guys think about this?
- The opinion of Japanese fans is no more official than the opinion of English fans. Unless Akira Toriyama (or as a stretch, perhaps Toei) was one of the ones who commented. -- 21:19, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
- Does a DVD guide count as an official statement towards Broly's strength level? I don't know, but maybe.
- ============================================================================================ Honestly if you pay attention to broly's strength it is basically unlimited somewhat like the hulk the more power he wants or need he gets in da matter of seconds. The only reason for broly being defeated is because he's evil and they always make good rise against evil, but if they made things realistic without the good alwayz rise against evil broly would have been unstoppable. Just imagine the fact that he was only playing with Goku, Trunks, Vegeta, Gohan, And Piccolo not even putting his full power into the fight. if he can blow up a planet in one hit, what do you think is going to happen if he just even inch one of them with an attack like that. The power of Gogeta 4 still wouldnt be enough power to stop Broly if they made this realistic because Broly power level is just going to rise over Gogeta 4 once he realize the strengh he has. Broly power is superb and cant really be beat by any other saiyan.
What about Super Saiyan God? When does it say that Broly's power is constantly rising? I believe Broly has a limit to that power, then he needs to start training. Broly's LSSJ power limit is probably weaker then normal Perfect Cell MegaBossMan (talk) 04:27, January 25, 2014 (UTC)
Jap fans overrate about Broly..way too much! They claim that normal base Broly can beat Fat Buu and Super Perfect Cell and in LSSJ mode he could even take Mystic Buu in few punches I don't think Broly could do that.
- It might be a good idea if you edit your comment to completely spell out "Japanese". I know you were probably just using it as an abbreviation, but that wording could be offensive to some readers. Bare in mind that in all places around the world there are some people who will have differences of opinions with others. No need to target a specific race about that! :-P -- 21:37, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
Dekoshu 21:39, 18 October 2008 (UTC) !! He can.
Ya sorry about that it was just an abb. just to make it shorter anyways the idea was really crazy and I want to know others think.
To be honest, fans from everywhere overrate Broly, and VASTLY.
Long story short : Broly fought an out-of-practice-for 7 years SSJ2 Gohan, SSJ Goten, and SSJ Trunks (who are just above Android Saga SSJ Goku/Vegeta, or a bit below at that time since it's before they trained for the tournament).
Now watch how Broly vs Gohan battle goes. Gohan is overwhelmed, but he is *not* curbstomped. If you then watch a 'battle' of a stronger SSJ2 Gohan against SUPRESSED Fat Buu, it'll lead anyone thinking logically to the conclusion that Movie 10 Broly is AT MOST as strong as Supressed Fat Buu.
Who in turn is weaker than Majin Vegeta SSJ2, Buu Saga Goku SSJ2, Super Buu, etc, etc.
I agree that Broly is the Strongest, in 1 on 1, and might be able to beat SSJ4 Gogeta. I think that if he had lived long enough to fight Gogeta he would have been more powerfull then ever. In the first movie, Broly had the streanth of a SSJ3. When he was defeated his spacepod crashed on earthand he was frozen in a lake, unable to become stronger through training. If Broly had lived until the end of the Fusion Saga then he might have been as strong as a SSJ4, maybe stronger! So I'd hate to see what he could've done if he lived to face SSJ4 Gogeta. It would probrably be like fighting 5 SSJ4s.--Baracuss 02:44, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
- But do we have anything besides supposition to support that conclusion? If not, it has little relevance to the article. -- 08:21, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
I don't think he could beat SSJ4 Gogeta because #1: Broly is pretty slow while Gogeta is REALLY fast. Broly would probably be around SSJ3.--Vatek 23:02, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
- That's arguable, as Broly seemed to be fast enough to create clotheslines (by that, I mean a fighting technique where you manage to give an unexpected arm slam on an opponent, and the only way one would pull it off effectively is if he/she was very fast), Plus, he had to have been very fast in order to a. reach Gohan mere seconds after he defeated Goku, B. manage to ambush Goku and Trunks almost immediately after Ambushing and beating up Gohan, and C. Ambush Paragus shortly before killing him. Besides which, if he was slow, please explain why he was able to catch his opponents (I mean, he caught up to Gohan right after the first round and slammed/shot him)?
- Edit: another thing, just a small correction, Baracss, He did become stronger even when he was frozen and in a coma. I mean, considering how Gohan thought "He's still as much of a challenge as the last time we fought" (When, the last time he fought, he was actually fighting against his LSSj Form, not the SSJ form that Gohan was currently fighting against.), and in the Japanese version, Gohan said that [Broly] had even grown stronger since that fight, that would imply that not only did he still have the same strength as the previous fight, but had in fact become much stronger.
- Oh, and does a DVD guide from TV Animation and Manga count as something official?
- Correction, pretty slow compared to Gogeta.--Vatek 11:46, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
What's this? People overrating Broly by 500 times? Almost dead SSJ Goku with powers from 5 almost dead SSJ-power people > Broly with 1 punch. Almost dead SSJ Goku with powers from 5 almost dead SSJ-power people do not beat Buu. At all. 3 Kamehameha's from SSJ leveled people (two of them who were just getting owned by Broly) beat Broly's strongest attack, and pushed him into the Sun, which is hax. --XOmega 12:32, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
I have to say, XOmega, that when Goku punched Broly, it reopened the stab wound he got as a baby. Also, saying Gohan is SSJ1 is controversial (I personally go with the SSJ2 Theory)Metamoss 23:49, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
"When Goku punched Broly, it reopened the stab wound he got as a baby". Am I the only one who sees a problem with this theory? This theory has been accepted by the fanbase as if it was downright directly stated in the movies, which I don't believe it was. Broly's stab wound was delivered when he was a baby, after 30 years it would have healed like any other wound. There is no evidence, statements or even hints in the movies that support that Goku reopened Broly's wound and that that was the reason he was defeated. Somebody came up with the theory and the entire fanbase accepted it for no reason. Also, Gohan definitely was a SSJ during the final beam struggle with Broly in movie 10, so yes, one of Broly's best attacks was overwhelmed by a kamehameha from 3 SSJ leveled people. Broly being the strongest fighter in 1 on 1 battles and can only be defeated by group effort? That doesn't even make sense. Whoever came up with that theory clearly doesn't know anything about DBZ (or at least knows very little). In DBZ it's much easier to defeat a group of weaker fighters, than to defeat one strong one. This is shown in the battles with Nappa and Recoome (just to name a few). Meaning, if Broly had been stronger than SSJ4 Gogeta, (one strong fighter) there is no way he would've been defeated by Gohan, Goten, Goku and Trunks at the levels they were during movie 10 (they were much weaker than SSJ4 Gogeta). That would be like Saiyan saga Z-fighters beating Super Buu, which is impossible and completely stupid. The reason Broly was never defeated in 1 on 1 battles isn't because he's incredibly, immensely, unbelieavably powerful, it's because he always fights whimpy opponents. In the first movie he fights and overwhelms Goku, Gohan, Trunks, Vegeta and Piccolo. At the levels they were at the time, even Super Perfect Cell would've been able to easily overwhelm them, but unlike Broly, Cell wouldn't have been defeated by one punch. In the second movie he fights a weak from lack of training SSJ2 adult Gohan, two super saiyan children (Goten and Trunks maybe super saiyans, but they're still only children with not that much experience or seriousness in battle), Krillin and Videl. Do you people see a pattern? Broly is always pitted against weak opponents because fans love to see him dominate people. The strongest fighter Broly ever fought in his entire life was SSJ2 adult Gohan, and that's not impressive at all. Saying Broly is strongest in 1 on 1 fights goes completely against the logic of DBZ battles. MajinFreeza 21:17, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
- actually being a pretty big fan of broly (and bardock) i should probably inform you of one teeny tiny detail you failed too mention when comparing broly's power to both cell's and gogeta's power, should he have lived long enough to face gogeta, his power level would've IMMENSELY increased due to his LSSJ powering him up the longer he uses it, so his power level would have easily been well above gogeta's, and the thing about the knife wound, if you get stabbed in the abdomen as an infant, chances are even after 30 years you would still feel a good amount of pain if someone oh i don't know, punched it. i have a scar on my arm from a dog biting my arm from when i was like 4, and it hurts like hell every time it gets excessive pressure on it let alone a super powered punch... plus it's called a zenkai, a saiyan who lives through a near death experience will greatly increase his power level, so his power level would've skyrocketed from his surviving the stab, the power punch to the gut, the being frozen alive, and the subsequent beating he takes from the family kamehameha attack. so if he had lived through the kamehameha attack plus his time using his LSSJ form up too the GT saga he would've been easily able too hold his own against SSJ 4 gogeta if not outright demolish him through sheer power, not too mention his LSSJ form doesn't slow him down but actually increases his speed seeing as how he is able too near instantaneously go from goku to gohan just from his speed, it's a safe bet broly would've wiped the floor with gogeta, plus SSJ4 gogeta can only exist for 10 min. at a time so that's kinda in broly's favor (^_^), but please do refrain from flamming me for saying those things, all i did was use facts about broly, the saiyan traits, the fusion dance, and a THEORY i.e. for all we know it could be in gogeta's favor but we'll never truly know, because broly's dead now... Geomexis 23:57, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
- Boly is not the strongest movie villain, only the strongest out of the villains that appeared before his movies. Goku says fat Janemba is stronger than any ki he felt before, and that includes Broly. I quote Takao Koyama: "In handling the scripts for the films, what I always worried about each time was the problem of what to do about the opponent Goku fights against. That’s because, at the very least, they had to be stronger than [the ones from] the previous movie." Dagon-Ralos (talk) 23:00, June 1, 2015 (UTC)
Welp, I'm really late. You claim that Broly= a SSJ3, you're overestimating his power greatly. Notice how Broly was tanking the Z Fighters, but they were all SSJs. Perfect Cell (holding back) was struggling against a Full Power Goku. This proves that Broly is at least>PC. We see Goku defeat Broly with all the energy of the Z Fighters by punching Broly's weak spot. IF Broly was as strong as a SSJ3 the Z Fighters would die instantly. Majin Buu (holding back) beat down Majin Vegeta and SSJ2 Gohan with a few punches. SSJ3>Fat Buu. Then, in Second Coming we see Broly dominate Adult SSJ2 Gohan, and during the beam struggle, Broly showed a lot of resistance despite two SSJs+ a weakened SSJ2 pouring all their energy. A weakened SSJ2 Teen Gohan + SSJ Goku struggled against Perfect Cell. I don't think that SSJ2 Adult Gohan and Teen Gohan would have a difference in power equal to SSJ Goten, so Broly>SPC. —This unsigned comment was made by Overkill4TheWin (talk • contribs) Please sign your posts with ~~~~ next time!
- "struggling against Goku" He wasn't. "Majin Buu (holding back)" Buu doesn't hold back. "Dominate SS2 Gohan" He doesn't. — A (t • c) 16:38, August 9, 2015 (UTC)
The bit I added (that was undone) about the alternate universes in which the movies take place didn't have anything to do with questions of canonicity. As far as I'm concerned, the movies fit fine with the canon, because of the alternate universes that are implicit in the canon (Mirai timeline, MWI quantum). AT put his name on the movies as the author, so I see no reason to offer any other disclaimer for the contradictions in the movies than "alternate universe". Opinions? Iuvenes 04:20, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
- Toei Animation is the "author" of the film. Akira Toriyama submitted designs and and probably some plot suggestions (as he's done with some other films), but Toei personnel are responsible for the Broly film series. The movie contradicts the canonicity of the mainstream series, and because it has no correlation to the manga, that is what makes it non-canon (in the same way that some debate the canonicity of filler material and Dragon Ball GT).
- I understand that they aren't canon, and why - like I said, my point has nothing to do with the canonicity of the movies. I'm just saying that the plot paradoxes aren't necessarily in contradiction to the canon, because the idea of alternate universes was introduced in the canon. I don't think that the contradictions were accidental - I've seen nothing to indicate that they are mistakes, and the insistence that they are mistakes seems to me to be a shallow way of looking at it. Iuvenes 19:30, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
- No one's insisting any mistakes? That might be worded weird, but I don't understand your point which is why I have trouble responding to it. The contradictions are neither accidental no incidental. Like I said, Akira Toriyama isn't responsible for the film series, so it's reasonable that Toei writers might overlook some aspects of the series when developing the plot (it's odd because they were also involved in bringing the manga to television, but it's reasonable nonetheless). And the thing every alternate timeline established by Toriyama (and thus, undebatably canon) have in common is that the Z Fighters have been decimated, whereas in the Broly trilogy this isn't true. Besides, the three films play off of each other, so if one isn't canon, nor can be the other two. Storm talk – projects 19:42, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
- What you have said makes since. The only thing is that if either Second Coming or Bio-Broly are impossible to explain as canon then that doesn't make the first film fall into the same non-canon list with the other two. Another thing is that the first movie could have easily taken place in canon. From what I have heard the first movie takes place in the ten day waiting period to the Cell games, that means that Gohan CAN go SSJ but he can't go SSJ2. I can't see anything wrong with the second movie though and if there are problems with it please tell me. The third movie has extreme problems and I disregard it as nothing more than an attempt to sell the Broly character out, not to mention its' canon problems. Imortality is a curse. 20:47, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
- Well, Technically, if one goes by that whole "Created by" mumbo jumbo, Akira Toriyama did actually write the Broly movies (as well as the rest of the movies, but still.), so Iuvenes does have a point. I'm not sure I should say that the Broly movies take place in an AU, though. Besides, Akira has made plotholes in his own manga before (Cell's explaination of how he got his Super Perfect form in the manga says "Hello"). Still, it's not an AU, anyways. I'll agree on Bio-Broly being non-canon, though, as the part of 18 requesting the money while Goku's still dead leaves a lot to be questioned. Besides which, Broly, not to mention his clone, Bio-Broly, never even made an appearance in the next movie (I mean, if they could give Bojack, of all people, an appearance in the anime despite being one of the more powerful threats, why not Broly/Bio-Broly?), which implies that even Akira/Toei have doubts as to whether Bio-Broly's even canon. I mean, the only REAL plothole that they had in "Broly: Second Coming" was Goten somehow knowing his father (since the Earth dragon balls had been able to recover in about 4-6 months time in the end of the Kid Buu Saga (and the events of the Majin Buu saga (Not counting the Great Saiyaman saga) up to Kid Buu's defeat took place for one whole day, maybe two at most), I don't count the Dragon Ball usage in "Second Coming" as an actual plothole.).
- Yay, I love DB nerds. :) Iuvenes 02:49, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
- I'll try to word it better - it was more of a philosophical point than a point of canonicity. I read an interview where AT said he likes making retrofitted explanations for things, and I get the feeling that his attitude toward the DBZ movies was much more positive than his attitude toward GT, for reasons that are probably pretty obvious. It's been a while since I've seen all the movies, but I do remember that some of them had fewer paradoxes than others, and some of them are inane things such as Gohan wearing the clothes Piccolo made him when he came out of the time chamber, but not being able to go SS. It's just a fun overtone to the movies to me, and part of what made them interesting (in a couple of unfortunate cases, the only thing that made them interesting). Iuvenes 02:49, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
Not in super 17?
Hhe in fact was actually. However, it was a breif appearance on the television set and then he didn't show up again...odd and stupid IMO, a wasted oppertunity but w/e..so was cooler and as we all know that also didn't become anything.--Chipmonk328
- Actually, no. Broly did not make an appearance in the Super 17 saga of GT.-- bulletproof 06:44, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
- Does Broly appear in Kid Buu Saga watching the fight between Goku and Kid Buu in Hell with the other Villains.
- No. Jeangabin666 13:22, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
Time to end this.
I have noticed that some people are trying to downplay Broly's power by claiming that Gohan was only Super Saiyan 1/ Full Power Super Saiyan during their rematch in Broly: Second Coming. Since it is canonically proven that he IS Super Saiyan 2 during that Battle, I want to put this to an end.
First of all, Gohan, after he had transformed, had only one bang in front of his face (Other than the old "bio-electric sparks" indicator, another good way to differentiate between SSJ and SSJ2 (or in this case, FPSSJ and SSJ2) is via the amount of locks on their hair.). Had he been a Full Power Super Saiyan, or heck, even a Regular Super Saiyan, he would have had one big lock and one tiny lock of hair.
Second of all, Broly TRANSFORMED into the Legendary Super Saiyan right after witnessing Gohan transform (and his facial expression implied that he realized that he can't beat it in his current form shortly before transformation.). Seeing how. A. He was strongly implied in the movie to have become significantly stronger over the seven year coma, and B. He pretty much beat Goten and Trunk's SSJ/FPSSJ forms (I'm not sure which of the two it was, to be honest, seeing how, they hadn't trained their SSJ forms (or at least, weren't seen to have trained), they should theoretically be just Regular Super Saiyans, but the fact that their facial features resemble their Base form more than a Regular Super Saiyan would imply that they were FPSSJs.) without breaking a sweat in his SSJ form alone (in the case of SSJ Trunks, he beat him twice), so if he could beat up not one, but TWO SSJs/FPSSJs in his SSJ form alone, then, IF Gohan had only transformed into a FPSSJ, then Broly wouldn't have even needed to go Legendary Super Saiyan.
Basically, stop trying to change it.
Retrieved from "http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Legendary_Super_Saiyan"
However, he was SSJ in the Kamehameha vs. Omega Blaster struggle. He had 2 bangs. --XOmega 12:34 5 May 2009 (UTC)
Hey, I was only focusing on the fight between Gohan and Broly (Note that I said FIGHT, not Beamstruggle), which was what everyone was editing.
How can it be canonically proven if the movie isn't canon? It can't even take place in the storyline because of Trunks' appearance in the first movie. Unless of course you meant canon in the Movie
- Simple, the Daizenshuu states that Gohan was SSJ2. And, yes, I did mean "Canon to the movie", though really, if we divide the franchise between Anime and Manga only, then technically, Movie 8 and 10 are canon to the Anime, at least.
- As for your comment about Trunks, he can still appear in Movie 8 and still make it canon, as the raw for Broly - The Legendary Super Saiyan explicitly said it took place during the 10 day wait for the Cell Games.
- Which of course doesn't make any sense at all, because they (Gohan and Goku) should be training their FPSSJ form, and not signing up for school. And the fact that they're signing up for school, when Cell just announced that if no one could beat him, he would be destroying Earth. --XOmega 11:22 26 July 2009 (UTC)
i don't get it... the article states that king vegeta died on the same day that broly was born. so how could king vegeta have tried to execute broly?
--Skydude176 16:13, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
- I think the article tried to say that King Vegeta ordered his men to execute Broly. In fact, the only character in that scene he himself tried to kill was Paragus.
in reference to the triva section, Broli would pose an overwhelming threat in his great ape form, which is supposedly why he had his tail reremoved. So, is there any way to draw a comparison to the power that he would have as a "Legendary Golden Oozaru" or possibly even a Legedary SSJ4.
- You know, I recall hearing about a LSSJ4 Broly being sold on Ebay.
- all right were do i start . first it amazes me that you are unable to spell Broly correctly when you are on the Broly talk page , and second Broly's tail was never removed.
- Brolylssj Destroys (talk) 18:38, August 25, 2012 (UTC)
It does not matter what daizenshu say's. As a matter of fact regardless how powerful he is, he's in only LSS means He only very close to a SS2 mean he is slightly weaker than a SS2.
Here's a list of characters who overpowered him:
Cell (Full power perfect form (Tie)/Super Perfect form)
Buu (Super buu/Kid buu)
Omega Shenron/Nyn shenron
Other stronger shadow dragon as Nouva and Eis
Super Android 13(tie)(almost could)
Ultimate Gohan and SS2 kid Gohan
Baby Vegeta (fully controlled/Golden Great-Ape)
Super Cell jrs.
- First off, I'm not "James-50". Secondly, many of these characters/forms are either debated or not likely to even fare with Broly. Perfect Cell (Full power or otherwise) would not be able to fare against Broly if fighting at full power (Cell, at most, can destroy Earth only with a supercharged, immense Kamehameha Wave.). Heck, look at Vegeta's reaction to fighting Cell compared to fighting Broly (While Vegeta was definitely sore about being beaten by Cell, he was not afraid of him. Likewise, Vegeta WAS afraid of Broly. His Big Bang attack failed to even phase Broly [even when the latter didn't even focus on Vegeta], whileas Vegeta was actually able to hurt Super Perfect Cell to some extent during the beamstruggle [he groaned in pain]). As for the Cell Jr's, let me remind you that the Cell Jr's were about 1/7th of Cell's overall power, and before anyone points out the fact that the Cell Jr's were actually able to take out a Full Power Super Saiyan (Goku) during that mess, let me just remind you that Goku had not recovered from the fight [he didn't even eat a Senzu Bean after the match.], so he was somewhat handicapped. Even when Cell was at Super Perfect Cell form, he only had enough power to destroy the Entire Solar System, at most (Plus, he needed an even more supercharged Kamehameha to do the job.).
- Now Buu, I'm pretty sure that Kid Buu, at least, would be an even match for Broly (Kid Buu is the only villain other than Broly who is capable of destroying planets at the absolute minimum of his overall power.). It's implied in the Anime, at least that the absorbtions of Kaioshins made Buu weaker than before [Maybe the Manga suggests otherwise, but since we're strictly dealing with the Anime, anyways, it won't matter.]. If that hint was to be taken as truth, that means that Super Buu would not be capable of defeating Broly (Absorbing him, maybe, but definitely not defeating him), and it was also implied that Super Buu in Piccolo form would NOT be able to fare against Goku ("You don't expect to fight me in that!"), whom by that point was already surpassed by Gohan upon reaching his Ultimate Form. As for Hirudegarn, we'll need to see about that. SSJ2 Gohan was officially confirmed to be weaker than Broly in LSSJ form, so he's out. SSJ3 Goku, well, considering how SSJ3 Goku ends up getting extremely fatigued [to the point of being exhausted even long after the fight is over], and in the case of temporal revival, is enough to even cut his remaining temporal energy in half [and in the anime, completely drain the energy when doing it the second time in front of Trunks and Goten], trying to compare SSJ3 to LSSJ would be like trying to compare USSJ to PC (In other words, while SSJ3 may end up being powerful compared to LSSJ, being hit by LSSJ would not only end up a OH-KO in regards to SSJ3, but being killed before it could even try to regain energy.).
- Meta-Cooler definitely won't fare well against LSSJ. If I must remind you, Goku and Vegeta were regular SSJs by that point (as in, untrained, non enhanced SSJs), whileas a Super Namek, two ASSJ's, and Two FPSSJs working together could not even scratch Broly in LSSJ. Besides, one Eraser Cannon on the Big Gete Star, and Broly would basically destroy all the Meta-Coolers (since the Meta-Coolers are only capable of those regenerative/enhancement powers due to the Big Gete Star. If any survived the destruction of the Big Gete Star, they most certainly would not be able to regenerate their wounds or remove defects.). Heck, going by the fact that Kid Trunks and Goten in their FPSSJ forms were completely whupped by Broly's SSJ form, he may not even NEED his LSSJ form to beat Metal Cooler. Super 17 may be able to make Broly's Ki attacks useless, but I don't think that he will be capable of faring against Broly's strength (especially seeing how Goku as a kid was able to pretty much smash through Super 17's defenses). Baby Vegeta might pose a bit more of a threat against LSSJ Broly, but I'm pretty sure that Broly LSSJ is still able to defeat him.
- Hatchyak may be stated to be at Broly's level, but I don't think it ever specified whether it was Movie 8 Broly or Movie 10 Broly (and it was quite clear that Movie 10 Broly was stronger than Movie 8 Broly.). The rest are unconfirmed as it is (for all we know, Broly could be able to defeat any of them or be stronger than any of them.)
1. Vegeta never used the Big Bang attack on Broly, that was just a random energy blast. Still, I agree Broly would defeat Perfect Cell, but I don't think he can beat Super Perfect Cell.
2. It was never stated in the manga how strong the Cell Juniors were compared to Cell, so saying they're 1/7 of his strength isn't a very valid argument. Still, I agree a Cell Junior couldn't defeat Broly.
3. Kid Buu wouldn't be an even match for Broly, he would slaughter Broly. In the manga, Kid Buu did a lot better against SSJ2 Vegeta than Broly did against SSJ2 adult Gohan (SSJ2 Vegeta is much stronger than SSJ2 adult Gohan by the way).
4. You're actually using Funimation's dub errors as facts? In the manga, Super Buu is stronger than Kid Buu and for the manga characters that's fact. It doesn't matter what the anime says if the manga disagrees. Kid Buu is just more dangerous due to his insanity. Super Buu would also slaughter Broly.
5. Ultimate Gohan (considering he's stronger than Super Buu) would slaughter Broly.
6. Hirudegarn (considering he overpowered Ultimate Gohan) would slaughter Broly.
7. SSJ2 adult Gohan was shown to be weaker than Broly. SSJ2 Teen Gohan is much stronger than SSJ2 adult Gohan, and would probably be able to beat Broly.
8. SSJ3 Goku (considering he fought evenly with Kid Buu) would slaughter Broly. 9. Agreed, Metal Cooler would get slaughtered by Broly. 10. Super 17 and Baby Vegeta (considering each of them is much stronger than all the previous characters in this list) would slaughter Broly.
11. Hatchyak is compared to movie 8 Broly, meaning he would get slaughtered by movie 10 Broly. MajinFreeza 22:15, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
- MajinFrieza, you DO realize that KamehamehaX10 (The User, I mean) ended the discussion, right?
Yes, I know. But I just had to reply considering how many flaws there were in that statement. MajinFreeza 06:25, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
- Plus, sometimes you just have to agree to disagree. (I can't wait for the Broly vs. Cell Jr. section of the power comparisons forum to come up.) : D -- .10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 06:42, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
True, sometimes you just can't reach a real agreement. Broly vs Cell Junior? Well...that should be interesting. lol MajinFreeza 08:34, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
Well that does not count. And what makes you think he'S stronger than Cell. no he isn't he's very close to a SS2 mean he's He can't kill Cell and Gohan, Despite about the game where's he's in SS3 and even other fighters in the list especially Cell Jrs. End of discussion. Also Super buu could have outmatch broly.
Broly vs. Other Characters
Hey guys, this isn't the most appropriate place for a discussion of theoretical battles and power levels. However, I invite you to continue your discussion here. Feel free to make any conjectures or speculation on the forum pages, rather that in the articles discussions (which are mainly for formatting issues, etc.). Thanks! -- .10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 03:55, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
Brolly destroy galaxies
why exactly shouldn't this be here? it happened and it shows his power--Croc117 04:26, September 8, 2009 (UTC)
- It doesn't show his power. It shows more ranting as to why Broly is either stupendous or unparalleled. We want to try and avoid unseen material as much as possible for the most part. If we must speculate, it's better to completely leave out these "galaxy destruction" references. If anything, it's already been stated, and it definitely doesn't belong in repetition in another section; definitely not the trivia section, as it doesn't comprise of trivia but is very inconsequential. - 05:14, September 8, 2009 (UTC)
what do you mean unseen? it's the first thing seen in movie 8--188.8.131.52 20:34, September 8, 2009 (UTC)
- It's unseen. There's nothing seen in movie 8 that of which shows his power. Paragus goes to get Vegeta, etc. and bring them deceitfully to the planet to remove them. That's it. There's no showcasing of Broly (and he barely even appears in the movie's first half). - 21:56, September 8, 2009 (UTC)
yes it is it shows a galaxy watch the movie it's the very first scene, the narrator says somthing to the effect of the south galaxy is laid waste to by a super saiyan watch it here http://clip.vn/watch/-DBZ-Movie-8-BROLY-The-Legendary-Super-Saiyan,WWJM --Swg66 01:40, September 9, 2009 (UTC)
- "The south galaxy has been shattered... by a super saiyan" King Kai: "No, no. It's all gone." (although this is non-canon). It's one galaxy. Not galaxies. Not plural. Singular. And it's very inconsequential. Nor is it mentioned again. It doesn't need to be repeated in the article somewhere. In the section entitled "Subduing the Unstable", right near the end, this is already mentioned in his bio itself. - 03:29, September 9, 2009 (UTC)
why would it being non-canon matter? broly is a non-canon charecter so it's moot to say so, and the whole galaxy vs galaxy's is pointless, the point is he can destroy multiple galixies not nessecarily at once but he can, and it does show his power as it's feat not seen by any other character--Swg66 04:18, September 9, 2009 (UTC)
- Now this is a useless rant. I just pointed that this is already mentioned in his article. We must avoid repetition. All repetition is subject to removal. The material is already on his article so this now holds no point for conversation. - 04:21, September 9, 2009 (UTC)
I agree with PrinceZarbon on this one. Broly destroying the South Galaxy is a feat full of plotholes, and shouldn't be mentioned that often. In the japanese version of movie 8, it's stated in the beginning that the South Galaxy had been ATTACKED by a Super Saiyan, not shattered. Also, King Kai told Goku that the Super Saiyan was IN the South Galaxy. When Goku teleported there, we could still see lots of planets and stars in the sky, meaning the Galaxy wasn't destroyed. That's why that whole statement is full of plotholes. Broly didn't destroy the South Galaxy, he destroyed MOST of the South Galaxy. There's a difference. MajinFreeza 14:18, September 12, 2009 (UTC)
- Or he may have just shattered it, and the impact may have destroyed a few planets. It can be explained in so many ways, that's why we want to try and avoid stuff like that at all costs. We want to be encyclopedic as much as possible in terms of actions. For example, Frieza is confirmed to have destroyed planet Vegeta. He didn't shatter the planet. He obliterated it from the face of the universe. We know he did that. It's not limited to one dubbing, or one version. It's a stated factual action. That's why we aren't hesitant in attributing the actual action to him. But in the case of Broly, what with the entire feat itself being non-canon, and the dubbing errors to boot, it all seems like a trivial addendum. Some fans just want to express his strength through the destruction of a galaxy to better add to his persona or something of that nature, but in the end, Broly's just not that important or integral to even hold a candle to the canonical villains. Even Raditz plays more of a role than Broly. And that's saying a lot. Thanks MajinFreeza for noticing the dubbing inconsistency by the way. I hate these errors they make in dubbing, it confuses audiences furthermore, whom are familiar with the Japanese dub well enough to know the differential factors. - 03:11, September 13, 2009 (UTC)
Exactly, shattering a Galaxy isn't the same as destroying it. Shattering a Galaxy probably means making it lose it's shape and having it's planets and stars fly off into different directions. I'm not a rocket scientist but I assume this might be achieved by disrupting the gravitational force inside the Galaxy or something like that, and it definitely doesn't mean that the one who did it (in this case, Broly) has enough power to actually destroy it completely. I'm sure that we're both aware of the fact of just how overrated Broly really is. And I'm afraid it's only going to get worse from now on, since the video games keep adding fuel to the fire. First there was that ridiculous statement in Tenkaichi 3 (if I'm not mistaken) where Broly was stated to be stronger than Kid Buu, which he clearly isn't. And now SSJ3 Broly in Raging Blast. You just know it will result in creating an even bigger army of Broly fanboys. You're welcome, PrinceZarbon. I'm just happy to help. MajinFreeza 11:09, September 13, 2009 (UTC)
- Well, even if he didn't actually obliterate the Galaxy, he did still have enough power to destroy the galaxy on a massive scale (Hence King Kai's fearful reaction). On a related note, going by some of the dialogue, Broly may have been able to destroy planets even when he was basically watered down by Paragus's mind control device to the extent that he was basically weaker than his father [It's implied that it was due to the ring that he was significantly weaker than Paragus, due to Paragus's statements of developing that crown so he can control Broly's power, the fact that Broly apparantly couldn't access his Super Saiyan form on his own volition due to the ring [In fact, the only reason he was able to consciously access his Super Saiyan form was due to Goku appearing. While it's implied that Broly did indeed access his Super Saiyan form when he and Paragus attacked Shamoa at the very least, if not the other planets/systems in the South Galaxy after Paragus placed the crown on his head, it's also implied that that was mainly because Paragus willed it through the mind control device, and not because Broly actually wanted to.], the fact that Broly's power was increasing during the fight with Goku, and even Paragus's statement about Broly being pitiful due to his being far less powerful than himself [and that was during the time he was controlled.]. It's also implied that he only allows Broly just enough power to go Super Saiyan, and nothing higher in terms of power output, when using him to attack planets due to the Shamoans statements about the super saiyan who attacked their planet, the fact that it became increasingly difficult for Broly to be subdued after Goku appeared, and the last time he tried to command Broly, it had absolutely no effect [even when he yelled "Broly, Attack!"].], so there is a slight chance that he may have the ability to completely obliterate the entire Galaxy, or even multiple galaxies simultaneously, if not hinder the crown. I'm just trying to use pure logic and reasoning skills to determine this.
- Actually, all you're using is called speculation. Logic is only used when people apply facts. To speculate what he "could have done" or what he was "capable of doing" accounts for nothing. "If it hadn't been that way, it might have been like this." These are all probabilities and possibilities, not fact. None of it accounts for fact. And fact is the only thing we attribute, no more, no less. On another note, please try to sign your post next time. - 22:24, September 13, 2009 (UTC)
- Actually, most of those were facts rather than speculation, as they were shown or mentioned in the film itself. I'll admit that the last part was definitely speculation, though. as for signing my post, well, I warned you that I'm not an official member, but since you told me to sign my post, here goes nothing. 184.108.40.206 22:46, September 13, 2009 (UTC) Told you, it only exposes my IP address.
- Like I said prior, the instances you mentioned are all altered dubbing. In every dub, something different is said. For example, King Kai's fear is heightened further in one dub, while in the other, he is simply warning Goku about an unknown force. The dubbing is highly inaccurate in many instances. The Japanese dub is the best, most accurate resource in terms of the anime. The only thing more accurate is the manga itself. Also, what's the purpose of this conversation? It has already been noted in the article... - 23:12, September 13, 2009 (UTC)
- It may be possible for Broly to destroy a galaxy with Omega blaster, considering that he can continually charge it up enough to a point for it to be collossal and explode. This is evidenced in Second Coming as he fires more blasts into the sphere making it larger and stronger. I agree with Zarbon on the fact that the destroying of the southern galaxy is full of plotholes but it might be possible for him to completely destroy one.
Broly's epic tail issue.
Ok,I have seen many many people say that Broly's tail was removed,and I for one,think not,why you ask?Because in Volume 1 of DBZ,Goku states that Raditz's power is in his tail.Now,why would that be relevant?Because if that is the case,wouldn't Broly not having a tail make him weaker?
- Well, I think Goku meant that Raditz was weakened if his tail was squeezed (and as both Nappa, Vegeta, and even Goku proved, that weakness can be erased if it is trained to not be weakened that way). Still, you do have a point. There's no way to know if Broly did actually have his tail removed. Going by the fact that he has that large red Belt of his (What is that thing called, BTW. I mean, you know, besides a "belt"), he could have just as easily been using the tail like it were a Belt (like how Raditz, Nappa, Vegeta, Turles, and even Paragus used their tails.).
My point exactly my friend
- This is probably the best way of going about it. Saiyans with tails gain power faster than Sayians without, because there's some unexplained power that the tail gives. Presumably, it's got something to do with the Great Ape form. Jono R 17:49, November 17, 2009 (UTC)
Fan image?Hello, but I was wondering if this picture is a fan-based one? I think it's a bit different than the official model. Take a look and compare and tell me what you think. I propose this picture's substitution. Vegeta - San "The Prince of all Sayans? Shouldn't I be the King of all Sayans? Hmmm.... 16:10, November 12, 2009 (UTC)"
- I see what you mean. Broly's hair isn't very green anymore. In Raging Blast both costumes have more of a yellow tint for the hair in LSSJ. I haven't unlocked him yet but I don't think his hair is that dark of a tint.Kibafool 18:59, November 17, 2009 (UTC)
- I would like the point out that this infact is the official art, I should know because I was the one who made the blonde-haired SS3 Broly you see to the right
NathanCX 03:32, October 4, 2010 (UTC)
12:35, October 15, 2010 (UTC)12:35, October 15, 2010 (UTC)12:35, October 15, 2010 (UTC)12:35, October 15, 2010 (UTC)12:35, October 15, 2010 (UTC)~
no,its not a fan image.he is/will be in dragon ball:raging blast games.
Can broly really go super saiyin 3 ?
i was wondering if broly can now go ssj3 or was it jus for one game
- He's done it in multiple games, just never in the anime. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 01:33, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
- 10X i am not saying that broly can't go super saiyan 3 but i would like to say this if you look at broly's eyes in what is suppose to be super saiyan 3 his eyes are the same as LSSJ so actually it is LSSJ 3 because of his eyesGoku20
Goku20 13:16, May 2, 2012 (UTC)
- LSSJ3 does not exist. Broly's transformation is called "Super Saiyan 3" in all the media it appears in. 13:44, May 2, 2012 (UTC)
- I know that ok but i was just saying look at ss3's eyes and then lss's and then ss3 broly's and the muscle size but i know that it is super saiyan 3 but i think they need to rename it to LSSJ 3Goku20
Goku20 14:15, May 2, 2012 (UTC)
- And broly super saiyan 3 is only a game chartcterGoku20
Goku20 16:18, May 2, 2012 (UTC)
Super Saiyin 2
Could broly become a suoer saiyin 2 since he skiped it along with gotenks it is mostly like broly could become a Super Saiyin 2 with Gonteks. Gamma Venom 567 September 25,2010
DBZ: Broly- The Legendary Super Saiyan does not fit the manga timeline. It supposedly takes place during the ten day wait before the Cell Games, but Gohan and Goku leave their SSJ forms which they do not do during the wait. According to the MoS, if such a contradiction occurs, then the more authoritative source is used, which, in this case, is the manga. And btw, everything in the manga is completely canon according to this wiki. Destructivedisk 20:47, November 21, 2010 (UTC)
- In case you haven't noticed, the Manga itself has had its contradictions, so, going by MoS, if there's contradictions, that means even the Manga isn't canon. Besides, there were also aspects to the Manga that aren't canon either. For instance, The Manga had Launch's last appearance during a Tenkaichi Budokai tournament, and yet it is very obvious that that was not even canon. Heck, even Launch's article states it wasn't canon. Plus, it was made by Akira Toriyama, which it wouldn't have been if it wasn't canon. Creator's will beats all. Weedle McHairybug 20:52, November 21, 2010 (UTC)
What was made by Akira Toriyama? Regardless, on this wiki, MoS beats all. Considering that the movie does contradict the manga, it is noncanon. That's more or less inarguable. Also, the MoS says nothing about a source contradicting itself. Movie<Manga, so if it contradicts, it's unture. Lastly, Launch's last appearance not being during the Tenkaichi Budokai can be considered canon because there is no contradiction. if there is no contradiction, then it is considered canon. There is a contradiction with a more authoritative source, and thus it is not okay. Destructivedisk 21:21, November 21, 2010 (UTC)
- This is from Launch's article:
- "Launch's final appearance in the manga was actually during a filler scene in the Frieza Saga, the only instance where she appeared after the 23rd World Martial Arts Tournament. Such filler scenes were inserts to the chapters found in Weekly Shonen Jump 1991 #3 and #4. Since they were only gag-manga done at the request of the magazine, resulting in each author from those two issues contributing holiday-themed gag-manga inserts, they weren't considered canon and were never included in the Tankobon (compilation volume). "
- If it is not canon despite it being manga, then that is more than enough to prove that the whole thing doesn't work.
- The movie credits also credit Akira Toriyama for creating the films. And for the record, ANYTHING that contradicts ANYTHING, even if it is itself, is non-canon. That is the fact of LIFE! Weedle McHairybug 21:33, November 21, 2010 (UTC)
- Maybe this should be corrected on Launch's article. For Broly, lets just say movie-only character. Considering him not canon, anime only, movie only, filler character... or not depends on people. But one thing that's sure is that he only appears in movies. Jeangabin666 21:51, November 21, 2010 (UTC)
- Fair enough. Let's just leave him at movie only. But that still doesn't mean that he's not a canon character. Canonicity requires absolutely no contradictions, so if there are any contradictions, even within the source that should be undeniably canon (such as the manga in this instance), that makes the manga automatically non-canon, and I can cite quite a few contradictions within the manga, including the infamous Cell thing. But yeah, let's leave it at "movie-only" since at least then it doesn't imply that he's non-canon. Weedle McHairybug 21:57, November 21, 2010 (UTC)
- Then I suppose that everything in the Dragon Ball-verse is non-canon, since it has an endless contradictions. Please go state that Goku is a non-canon character on his page. Kthxbai. Destructivedisk 22:00, November 21, 2010 (UTC)
- Perhaps I will. Besides, Akira Toriyama was already established to have created the Manga, several of the Anime fillers, and even the movies. Weedle McHairybug 22:03, November 21, 2010 (UTC)
For the record, the term "non-canon" does not appear in the Manual of Style even once. We simply state which source we consider to be more authoritative if two sources contradict one another. Example: if the anime says "A", but a video game says "B", we put "A" in the corresponding article. "B" is still true for some things, such as that video game. I hope this clears some things up, let me know if there are any questions. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 22:29, November 21, 2010 (UTC)
hope thats better for u, kept all the adv saiyan trans, only took out fan based knowledge not found in the actual movie as fact
```` Yoyepo February 5, 2011
Broly stated "I'm getting stronger, yes, much stronger!" before using Blaster Meteor to vent the excess Ki, which was shown in the film itself. Heck, many of the things you removed were either shown or outright stated in the films. Weedle McHairybug 12:28, February 5, 2011 (UTC)
fact over opinion
nope. Broly stated in the original jap version that his ki is rising, overflowing. Then he had to release this energy, implying that he had a limit. Broly's power level rose arguably twice, maybe three times the whole film. It was never implied in the film that his power level increases indefinitely like Broly, or that as long as he's in his lssj form it continues to rise, or that his form costs him absolutely no ki, that's never said at all. Pretty much every other villain in dbz history has increased their power levels just like Broly, so to say his keep increasing forever while he's in lssj is not fact, it's opinion. As is saying that his stab wound was reopened, never even implied in the movie. In fact, in a close up scene of broly as a baby left for dead, he appears to have the stab on his upper chest, not abs. As Goku's fist started to sink in, Broly's green energy burst out, and he exploded. I listed exactly what happened w/o implying anything at all, I only listed the facts. That's how a wiki should be
- Yeah, well guess what? On this Wiki, we use the Dub, not the Original Japanese Version for our edits, since like it or not, that's the only one that is "definite" in regards to edits. Ask our moderators if you don't believe me, since they will tell you that this is the case (This is also the reason why Broly is listed as being a Super Saiyan 3 instead of Legendary Super Saiyan 3 despite Goku referring to it as such despite it being in the Japanese commercials, since the english versions of the games stated it.). As for exactly where Goku punched Broly, in case you've forgotten, Broly had a flashback to when they were babies when Goku punched him there. Why have a flashback to when you are babies when being punched in the stomach if it wasn't even related to the stab wound? Weedle McHairybug 12:46, February 5, 2011 (UTC)
he had a flashback to remembering goku crying as a little baby. that has literally nothing to do with the stab wound. To state it as fact, you need undeniable proof that it was in fact the stab wound reopened, which is impossible to find because it was never stated, it was thought up by a fan. it was also never stated this form costs no ki or that his power level continues to rise as long as he's lssj. His power level rose only a couple times. exactly similar events can be found throughout dbz history. Notice how im not changing anything factual, I'm simply taking out fan based non proven knowledge and replacing it with what was visibly seen in the movie
```` Yoyepo February 5, 2011
uv got to be kidding me kid
r u kidding me? I take out the bs and input what visually happened in the movie, and u keep changing it because...... hhmmmmmm idk seems like wikis should be run on fact, not your opinion. Show me proof of the stab wound, show me proof lssj has absolutely no ki loss, show me proof his pl continues to rise and rise as long as he stays in lssj form, not just rise twice like in the movie, and I'll agree with u. Otherwise, stop changing what EXACTLY happened in the movie
- And why would he have a flashback in regards to Goku crying as a baby when it really had absolutely nothing to do with whether Goku was punching him there or not? He didn't have any flashbacks to Goku crying all those other times (none that were actually shown, anyways, not counting Paragus's accounts, since were his flashbacks, not Broly's), and they certainly could have added them in if they wanted to during the fight before hand if they wanted it to be just him flashing back to that day. They didn't, so it couldn't have simply been because he was flashing back. And maybe they should be run on fact, but cinsidering how it was fact that the Japanese version stated that Broly's SSJ3 form was LSSJ3, and yet we don't call it that anyways just because it wasn't in the English version, I don't see how the Japanese version matters that much anyways. Weedle McHairybug 13:07, February 5, 2011 (UTC)
Opinion, not fact
okay, first of all how the heck did u change everything back in one minute. That's pretty unfair that you r dictating the Broly page to YOUR opinion.
and why would it flash back when Broly is simply beating goku up? that makes absolutely no sense. If it wanted to flash back to show the knife was responsible, it would have flashed back to when he got stabbed. It flashed back to him and Goku because that's the reason why he hated goku in the first place, it's where it all started. There's literally no proof that the stab wound theory is true, it's opinion. and my post improves, saying the exact events of the movie's finale, yet u deleted it. Thx for holding the wiki back. and once again the statements about Broly's lssj powers r completely made up. U can't prove them, therefore they should not be posted. You can say "it's theorized that..." but u can't claim as fact something that isn't proven. This site is the cause of many brolytards on the internet, something has to be done about all the inaccuracies
- And just because we "see" it in a film doesn't mean its fact, either with you or with me. I tried mentioning how Gohan gained the SSJ2 transformation in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber while training with his dad because, in that flashback in Cell's Mighty Breakdown, for a split-second, Gohan's hair resembled the Super Saiyan 2 hairstyle while powering up before passing out, causing Goku to realize that only Gohan had a chance at defeating Cell. However, in one of the articles, they kept on removing it, citing that it was A. Filler, and B. not even mentioned in the official guides, even though it was shown on screen. And for the record, the thing about LSSJ powering up indefinitely is NOT made up, since Broly mentioned it in the film himself. Other than that, there was also the fact that the Video Games (even if they're not canon, they are at the very least offcial), Broly's Ki power actually continually increases even when he is standing still. This is especially noticable when you take into account the fact that with the other players, they actually have to continuously fight in order for their Ki bar to increase. I know because I've played Budokai Tenkaichi 2. Weedle McHairybug 13:26, February 5, 2011 (UTC)
lmao u make no sense. filler episodes never happened in the manga, therefore they rn't real. Broly is a movie, there is no filler, it's not manga material. I listed exactly what happened in Broly, and u removed it and replaced it with fanboy nonsense that's completely unproven. and everybody's energy rises by itself in the games lmao u crack me up. Broly's power level does rise several times throughout the film, but so does every other villain in dbz. to say that this is different and that his power level automatically constantly rises forever is completely preposterous and never mentioned in the movie. His pl increases a couple times. That's it. so does everybody's. Paragus said his pl was rising. ppl also said goku and cell's pls were constantly rising as they fought. It's nothing unique. now offer some real proof or stop correcting my FACTUAL revisions that say exactly what happened and don't make baseless statements Yoyepo 13:36, February 5, 2011 (UTC) Yoyepo February5,2011
- Except Akira Toriyama actually did have a hand in several filler elements. Heck, Yamcha joining the Baseball team, which actually was filler, was also Akira Toriyama's Idea. I played those games, and with the other characters, their energy usually doesn't rise automatically to the maximum (by that, I mean when it turns all blue and gradually decreases), Broly's does. I know what I'm talking about because I've played them. I remember actually HAVING to land attacks on other characters or power up just to increase my ki enough to reach maximum. Broly, on the other hand, whenever playing as Broly in his LSSJ form, I stood still and noticed his ki was still increasing to the maximum (and by that, I mean the blue area was increasing. Heck, LSSJ Broly is also one of the few character whose yellow bar is already at maximum, and actually can't be depleted.). Also, its different because with Goku and Cell, they actually weren't starting out at their maximum, they kept it little by little and then increased little by little before either reached their maximum strength. Broly, on the other hand, seemed legitimately shocked when his power was increasing, and even had to eliminate all of the excess ki (hence that Blaster Meteor attack) to keep it from overwhelming them. Did Frieza or Cell have to discharge ki just to eliminate their excess ki? Did Vegeta or, heck, just about any other character? No. And those ARE facts. Weedle McHairybug 13:48, February 5, 2011 (UTC)
that bs. Broly's ki does not increase any more than anyone else in the game. I have raging blast 2. it doesn't. Oh, so cell and goku weren't in their maximum, but as soon as Broly transformed he was at his transformation's maximum fighting potential? that makes no sense and completely conflicts with everything ever seen in dbz history, every single villain powers up and gets stronger as he fights, not just Broly. Broly didn't seem shocked that his pl was rising, he seemed in pain, and he said overflowing, as in it's too much for him. It's like if goku's body started charging a kamehameha he'd have to release the energy right? exactly. when u gather your ki for an attack u have to release it. Broly's body was unstable, hence y he started gathering ki for no reason. This is why he had to release it in a massive energy attack. Your power level can increase as high as you can get it in dbz. your ki you gather for an attack, however, must be released. Broly's body's instability was why goku's punch caused him to explode. watch it in slow motion. there's no stab wound opening up, goku's hand just starts to go into broly, and all of a sudden broly's energy bursts out of the impact. and guess what? he explodes like a dang grenade. Had he not been so popular, he woulda died there, but cuz he was they made another movie. To suggest a stab wound reopening can cause his skin to crack, energy to rediate out from under his skin, and cause him to twitch and explode is preposterous. So I'm still waiting for something that proves without a doubt that it's true... just sitting around waiting...
Yoyepo 14:18, February 5, 2011 (UTC)Yoyepo February 5, 2011
and how about u not change it back? it take alot of time to thoughtfully edit something. if 10 time kamehameha doesn't like it, he'll change it back. If he's sees my point, he won't. let him decide, and let me argue with him.
Yoyepo 14:20, February 5, 2011 (UTC)Yoyepo February 5, 2011
- Fine, I won't change it back. Probably won't matter, anyways, since you'll keep changing it back. Maybe when someone actually give proof one way or another, it can be settled for good. Weedle McHairybug 14:25, February 5, 2011 (UTC)
- One Last thing, I am not a fan of Broly. My views on him are at best neutral. That's mainly because I am never supposed to have loyalty to villains, in fact I'm supposed to hate bad people and evil. Weedle McHairybug 14:30, February 5, 2011 (UTC)
and I'm not a Broly hater either. I think he's one of the coolest looking villains. I just hate that there's 100s of on the internet claiming that because his power level never stops rising, he can defeat ssj4 gogeta if he lets broly power up. It's rly quite annoying to say the least. But nyways how were u instantly able to change everything I wrote? I know u couldn't possibly type it all in one minute
Yoyepo 14:53, February 5, 2011 (UTC)Yoyepo February 5, 2011
- There's a button in the edit history near the recent edit called "undo", which reverts everything back to what it once was. That's how I was able to revert everything instantaneously. I take it that you're new here.
- Also, in case you're wondering why I get irritated whenever people accuse me of making opinions, it's because I think in a very logical nature, and I also have little to no concept of Opinions, viewing Facts as being everything or nothing. At best, the closest I could conceptualize as being an opinion is a downright lie. So whenever people even hint that I am just stating an opinion, I feel angered because that carries the same implications as saying that I lied to someone, since I try to not lie. Weedle McHairybug 16:12, February 5, 2011 (UTC)
Well that was definitely not my intent. By opinion, I mean that was your interpretation of the events found in Broly. And alot of fans have been mislead by the wording of this article. The idea that his power level continues to rise as long as he's in legendary ssj form is true in that paragus says his pl is rising, and twice it rises, but that does not necessarily mean it's on a constant increase the entire movie, it seems to hit him at pretty unstable bursts. Some ppl on the internet assume this means in a long term fight, Broly has some huge advantage, but we rly don't know that, since we never saw an extended fight of Broly against a worthy opponent who would tire him out. It's like with 50% frieza, his energy source never seemed to fade, but 10 seconds into the ssj goku vs frieza fight he was breathing so hard he sounded like he was going to have a heart attack. The power rising quote has been used to describe ppl throughout dbz, so I don't see any conclusive evidence that Broly's is special. But alot of ppl from this article have drawn conclusions that in a 1v1 fight, broly could beat anybody in dbz, and that he has the greatest abilities of all dbz. I just want to present them with what actually happened visually in the film and let them decide. Btw I'm now realize I was a little unfair. I'm about to edit it again and add that it's commonly believed by many fans that his wound was reopened.
Does anyone know if you can be Broly Super Sayian 3 in Dragon Ball Z Raging Blast (If you have an answer just leave me a message)AquaHope 13:53, May 3, 2011 (UTC)
Does anyone else think the infobox image isn't very good? You can barely see any of Broly and he's not even angry like usual. Any ideas for a new one? -- 10X Ka.me.ha.me.ha ..... talk ..... contrib. 03:11, July 17, 2011 (UTC)
- By Infobox, you mean profile picture correct? I have to agree, it does not fully represent his attitude or body. Let me see if I can locate some better ones in his base form. Ripto22475 01:29, September 3, 2011 (UTC)
- How about this one 10XKamehameha?
http://dreager1.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/325px-broli_regular_form.jpg Ripto22475 01:35, September 3, 2011 (UTC)
Nope, I mean infobox. That's the box full of info at the top right of most of the pages, lol, and infobox is the name of the template it's made from. That image doesn't look like base form, it actually almost looks like Broly's in the middle of a transformation. -- 10X Ka.me.ha.me.ha ..... talk ..... contrib. 02:16, September 3, 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, infobox means top right, and your topic says "Infobox Image". So you are talking about his profile picture right? It even says in your comment "Does anyone else think the infobox image isn't very good? You can barely see any of Broly and he's not even angry like usual. Any ideas for a new one?" So I assumed you were talking about his image, no? And the picture I found was the only one of him in his base form. it is the only one I found with his full body and base form. And yes, he is transforming, but it still has his base form. If you are interested in changing it, i think out of the two this one is better, since it has his body, angry look, and his base form. Compared to the sad, half body, and weak looking apperance. Ripto22475 02:24, September 3, 2011 (UTC)
I'm talking about his infobox image... it's not called a profile picture here, whatever though I think we're on the same page. As for the image, transforming means inbetween forms, it's better to just have the normal, static base form. Otherwise people get particular about auras, hair, etc. not being accurate. -- 10X Ka.me.ha.me.ha ..... talk ..... contrib. 02:28, September 3, 2011 (UTC)
Oh sorry, I did not know if was called that. I heard other users use that term, so I assumed it was alright. And broly pictures are appentley very hard to find? I could not locate any good ones anywhere. Scarce number of base form images. And a lot of not so good super saiyan ones. You would think being a real popular character and all, he would have some good pictures. Ripto22475 02:33, September 3, 2011 (UTC)
Oh, and also, who is this user? You seem to of had a fight with him on krillin's page. http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/User:%E5%A4%A7%E7%A9%BA%E7%BF%BC Ripto22475 02:38, September 3, 2011 (UTC)
- Please remember to put your signature after you're done typing, lol. That includes links, btw. For Broly, I would guess that someone would need to get an HD video and get the frames manually. Yah that guy kept popping up for a while. He was the same person as the last person you asked about, just another sock puppet. -- 10X Ka.me.ha.me.ha ..... talk ..... contrib. 09:34, September 3, 2011 (UTC)
Wow, you still remember that? Lupinthe3rd or something like that? How did you remeber that, that was awhile ago. Ripto22475 18:08, September 3, 2011 (UTC)
- Well it went on for quite some time. If you check out his block log, you'll see that he kept getting blocked, then coming back. He would basically chat for a few comments on the talk pages, people would disagree with him, then he would call users (usually me and whoever else was on at the time) insulting names and make the changes anyway, and we would revert them back and warn him. Every few times he did this, we blocked him. Every few times he got blocked, he would create a new sock puppet account, which was usually obvious once the "new user" appearing a day after his block complained about the same issue, using the same somewhat broken English. -- 10X Ka.me.ha.me.ha ..... talk ..... contrib. 18:37, September 3, 2011 (UTC)
- I found a HD version of his movies on Youtube, I could get a pic of him that way. Super Saiyan GoateeSend me a message! 18:40, September 3, 2011 (UTC)
- Ahh, so he was Lupinthethird too? You know I do not mean to be rude, but reading through your discussion, it makes me chuckle a little. How many usernames did he make?
- And Nappa'sgoatee, that would be great if you could get a better picture of him. Ripto22475 20:25, September 3, 2011 (UTC)
- I presume that Lupinthe4th is the same guy I am talking about? 220.127.116.11 02:28, September 4, 2011 (UTC)
I feel like the picture of Broly does not really reflect Broly's nature. Broly was a homicidal, psychotic, enraged Super Saiyan, and this picture is a heavily suppressed Base form picture, with Broly looking contrite and sad. Shakuran13 20:19, August 19, 2011 (UTC)
- By policy, we have each of the character's infobox pictures be their base form, with very few exceptions (like Cell, who we have in his 3rd of 5 forms, since it is his basic "complete" state). As for the facial posture, feel free to look for a better pose in his base form, and bring it here for people to chat about. If generally people agree on the talk page that the new one you find is better, than we switch to yours at that point. Sorry for the complicated procedure, but we had to standardize the infobox pic process to prevent the chaos that changing them used to draw. -- 10X Ka.me.ha.me.ha ..... talk ..... contrib. 20:46, August 19, 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, that one is much better. I vote to change it to that one guys. 18.104.22.168 18:04, September 7, 2011 (UTC)Ripto22475
- Ok then, I was never bothered with Broly's infobox page anyway, I hate him. It was the best I could do with his base form by himself anyway, I watched the movie twice, and when it was a full body shot, he was either no emotion (Like The current pic.) or with another character in the shot. Super Saiyan GoateeSend me a message! 19:21, September 7, 2011 (UTC)
I never readed the manga of dragon ball.I am Interested about this(Since i know that some movies are cannon) Is broly cannon too?
- Canon means different things to everyone. Literally, a canon is a group of works about the same topic. Recently, internet goers have declared canon to mean a variety of "official" material ranging from only manga to any published media. On this site, we recognize any official media (so not fan work) as being canon, but at different levels. You can check out our Manual of Style for details. However, if your question is just "is Broly in the manga?" then the answer is no. -- 10X Ka.me.ha.me.ha ..... talk ..... contrib. 03:08, September 1, 2011 (UTC)
ss3 rare pictureHey, i found the picture of Broly as a Super Saiyan 3 from RB2 as if he's in the Anime, it's a low quality photo not so very good and was pretty hard to find, should i add it to his page?
- On the page or in the gallery, it depends on the quality. Jeangabin666 11:52, September 3, 2011 (UTC)
- Um.. ok i just add it here... SaiyanElite 12:01, September 3, 2011 (UTC)
- It also contains a little text, but alot of images contain text like the ones from the supersonic warriors 2 page. SaiyanElite 12:03, September 3, 2011 (UTC)
New Infobox imageI think I found one that works here:
This is much better. More body, cocky look, and just better all around. I suggest we change it. Ripto22475 02:42, September 9, 2011 (UTC)
- I like the image, but it much lower resolution than the current one.
- Could we get that new image, but in a higher resolution? Cropping somewhat would also be nice. -- 10X Ka.me.ha.me.ha ..... talk ..... contrib. 03:07, September 9, 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, a little cropping is in order. I wish my photos were picked. Lucky jimmy Ripto22475 18:23, September 9, 2011 (UTC)
- What scene is it at, I can get it for you. Shakuran13 19:44, September 9, 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks guys. I'm sorry Shakuran, I don't remember to be honest. Guess you just have to search for the moment. Once a Higher-res picture is uploaded, I can crop it as well. Jim.my.killer.9 ..... talk ..... contrib. 20:05, September 9, 2011 (UTC)
reopening the wound he received as an infant should be removed. He did not reopen the wound, it is not stated in anything official anywhere that he did, this is fan based bs used to try to explain what happened and is supported by literally nothing at all. Not to mention the wound had fully healed and there is no evidence at all that it still affected Broly, and he was stabbed on the top of his chest, not his abdomen, so Goku did not reopen his wound, and if this site only supports things that are official and does not support fan made bs, it should exclude the rediculous line that his wound was reopened, because clearly it was not and had nothing to do with the ending. It isn't even hinted at as playing a role in the movie —This unsigned comment was made by 22.214.171.124 (talk • contribs) Please sign your posts with ~~~~ next time!
a change that should be made
I found this description in this article, and it's extremely nonsensical and biased in favor of Broly. Here's the paragraph.
"As a Super Saiyan, Broly also gains an unflinching response to attacks. This is first seen when he attacked Goku in his restrained Super Saiyan form and was completely unfazed by everything that Goku threw at him. This is especially evident when Goku landed a kick to his face and slightly bloodying his mouth, only for Broly to shrug off the injury completely and lick the blood off his mouth, to Goku's disgust. As such, Goku only survived this encounter by running away for the most part. This unflinching response reappears later on when an Ascended Super Saiyan Vegeta throws a kick directly to his neck followed by a powerful energy blast to his back, both of which had no effect whatsoever. Also, from what was shown of Broly's regular Super Saiyan form, he seemed to be strong enough to take down two Super Saiyans without much effort, as evidenced by how easily he knocked Goten and Trunks out of their Super Saiyan forms at one point in the battle."
This is nonsensical for many reasons.
1.) It says he was completely unfazed by Goku's attacks, and goku only survived by running away. This is absurd. Goku was only in his base form at the time, which shows that he didn't even see Broly at this power level as a serious, life or death threat. If Broly were strong to the point of being able to kill goku, goku would have gone ssj, as he does later against lssj Broly. The article implies goku fled and could barely survive against rssj Broly, when in reality their scuffle was short and was against only a base Goku, who's obviously nowhere near ssj Goku's powerlevel. Not to mention Goku never ran from Broly, he simply dodged his attacks.
2.) there is no gaining of an unflinching ability in dbz. the ability to tank attacks is just an author's way or showing a fighter is massively stronger than another fighter. it's not like Broly has some super powered durability, it happens all the time in dbz. In fact, the reason Broly tanks in that way is likely due from influence from pre cell games cell battles made b4 the movie's release, and the author's being influenced by it and putting these scenes in the movie. Examples- pcell walks through vegeta's ki blasts, Broly does the same, Vegeta kicks Pcell in the side of the head w/o making him flinch, does the same vs rssj Broly in the movie, cell walks through piccolo's strongest attack and comes through unfazed, broly does the same vs Piccolo's kamehameha. This shouldn't be listed as an ability as if it's something unique or something he gains by becoming a rssj.
3.) goten and trunks are around 18's level in the anime. Saying Broly can beat two ssj level fighters in itself is nonsensical. 18 could beat vegeta and trunks easily in their fight, so she could also beat two ssj lvl fighters, but this sentence does nothing to gauge her strength level, since Broly is obviously many times stronger than she is. It's just a bad sentence. it's like saying raditz showed he was able to beat a base saiyan by beating goku. While it may be true, raditz is also likely the weakest saiyan warrior we see in the show. Likewise the z fighters at the cell games alone were likely many times stronger than goten or trunks as super saiyans, so I don't see any reason to include this sentence other than to try to make Broly's ssj form seem more impressive.
Here's how I believe it should be writen:
When broly changes into a super saiyan, his power level increases greatly. This was displayed in his fight against Goku. While they were both in base form, Goku was able to send him flying into a river with a physical attack, but after transforming, a direct punch to Broly's face only caused his head to turn. Broly's power level was further displayed later, when vegeta kicked him in the neck, but Broly didn't even flinch or seem to notice the attack at all. Vegeta launched an energy attack at Broly afterwards, which again did no damage, but caused Broly to stop and transform into his lssj form. While it is unknown exactly how strong Broly was as a super saiyan in movie 8, it is hinted that he was superior to Goku, as said by King Kai himself. And this was only after king kai had sensed Broly's restrained power level while under control of his father Paragus.
Broly's super saiyan form in Second Coming was also strong enough to over power super saiyan Goten and Trunks at the same time. It is difficult to accurately gauge his strength because afterward he only toyed with base Gohan, immediately changing into his lssj form when Gohan transformed.
That seems like a much better ssj description.
- 1- you are speculating by guessing Goku's thoughts. 2- supported by all appearances in anime and games, which overrules your opinion, which is OR. 3- this is an encyclopedia, we state facts, and the statement that you don't like is solely fact, since Broly did beat two Super Saiyans. There is no need for a rewrite, since your arguments here are based on speculation, OR, and personal bias. -- .10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 07:58, November 7, 2011 (UTC)
Now learn, learn what happens when you mess with the most powerful being in the UNIVERSE! 08:32, November 7, 2011 (UTC)
saying that Goku had to run away from Broly to survive is speculation. Goku only ran from base Broly and only at the beginning of the fight as he tried to figure out why Broly was attacking him, supported by his statements such as "Broly, what are you doing?" . I don't see Goku at any time running away from rssj Broly in this movie. Broly threw attacks at him that Goku dodged, but Dodging his attacks is not running, and Goku engages and attacks rssj Broly up until Paragus calmed him down. And again, the article fails to mention that Goku was only in his base during this scuffle. Stating that Goku had to run to survive is very misleading, considering Goku wasn't even a super saiyan, and therefore not even close to his full power.
- Please sign your posts. Also, I don't know what you are trying to say when you use the abbreviation "rssj." Perhaps write out the whole term so that we can communicate better. As for mentioning that Goku is in base form, that's fine, but all the rest of what you said is speculation. As an encyclopedia, we can't just throw everyone's thoughts on the site, it's facts only. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 02:37, November 8, 2011 (UTC)
I can't sign my posts. I don't have a profile. As for speculation, how is what I wrote speculation? The article says that Goku only survived by running away, which is not what happened. I see no part in this scuffle where goku mentions almost not surviving. And I see no point against super saiyan Broly where Goku ran away. all he did was hop out of the way of super saiyan Broly's energy attacks, which is not running. I don't see where I'm speculating here, if anything the article is speculating by saying he only survived by running away. and rssj is a term some people use to call broly's restrained super saiyan form seen in the movie when he has the head piece on.
- Please sign your posts, I shouldn't have to do it for you. There are instructions at the top of this page, and you don't need an account to do so. As for running vs. "hopping," that's a pretty big stretch as the basis for a rewrite. It should be clear for the readers that, at this point in the series, Goku's movements consist of dodges, jumps, running, flying, etc. Since the nature of a wiki is to provide a brief summary (the prefix "wiki" actually means fast), it would obviously be redundant to mention every movement technique utilized by Goku whenever he avoids confrontation. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 00:22, November 9, 2011 (UTC)
u missed the point in my post. Goku was not avoiding confrontation with ssj Broly at all, he was actively engaging him. Nowhere did I say that I was mad because he was hopping away as opposed to running away. And again, the article says that he ran away to survive, but never is it mentioned that his life was in danger or that he could have died in this fight
126.96.36.199 00:47, November 9, 2011 (UTC) Anonymous dbz contributor
- and now I see why u interpreted my hopping vs running away thing that way. The point I was making was that goku dodging Broly's attacks does not mean he ran away from Broly. Goku dodged frieza's energy blasts, but it's not like he was running from frieza. Goku never disengaged ssj Broly, he was attacking him up until Paragus interjected, saying he was running away from Broly during the fight is simply inaccurate. 188.8.131.52 01:16, November 9, 2011 (UTC)Anonymous dbz contributor
- you clearly do not know what I'm saying because I'm not talking about his movement technique 184.108.40.206 06:26, November 10, 2011 (UTC) anonymous dbz contributor
- No, that's not the point of my argument. Can I talk to a different administrator? 220.127.116.11 13:08, November 10, 2011 (UTC) anonymous dbz contributor
Well it appears that point one is the main issue being argued and I shall dicuss with you fellows, I think Goku 'running away is a tad missleading, as he was more or less evading Broly and defending himself when needed, although that is the reason why he was able to survive the encounter because if Broly could land a blow in the right spot, whether Goku was a Super Saiyan at the time or not, and kill Goku. 19:06, May 8, 2012 (UTC)
Rampage in Hell
According to the Goku article, (specifically the Movie appearences > Bio-Broly section) near the end of Bio Broly, Goku states that he and Vegeta should go to Hell to 'Calm down' Broly as he is on a rampage in hell. Now, I haven't seen Broly movie 3, so i don't know what the context is, but i Think this should be added to this Article (Trivia or Appearences, i would assume)
Also, I know this isn't really the place to ask this, but which Broly was he reffering to? The 'real' Broly or the Clone? and what did he mean by 'Calm down' ~thanks for any answers ThatsNotCanon 16:23, June 20, 2012 (UTC)
- I think he means the real Broly. Bio Broly I think might not have a soul.Black Ronin8 (talk) 17:23, August 6, 2012 (UTC)
- Goku says that King Kai wants him and Pikkon to go there and settle him down and I know this because I have the movie and seen it enough to know and I am watching it right now.
I have noticed that there is no major battles section for Broly. I would make it myself but the article is only editable is source mode and is much too confusing for me. So If somebody wants to make it and save me the grouling hours of trying to make a few lines that would only take certain users minutes to make there you go and you get a few edits as well.
somebody ? i am also not good at editing in source mode.
anybody at all
- This section would be useless. Two battles are not enough to make pertinent a section. 10:51, September 18, 2012 (UTC)
- not exactly 2
- int he first movie he battled everybody except piccolo and vegeta then everyone except vegeta them everybody literally.
- movie 10 he fought videl
- goten and trunks
- gohan goten trunks maybe goku
- Quackulon The Duck Tyrant (talk) 15:59, September 18, 2012 (UTC)
I know this talk page would do better with fewer conversations, but since this page is locked, I was wondering if anyone thought it would be alright to add an extra note into Broly's 'Game Appearances' section. What I would like to have added is that, in the intro of both Budokai 3 and Tenkachi 3, Broly is shown briefly battling Gogeta. This is mentioned in Gogeta's own page, and some may say, the info is alright if only one of the characters have it, but from what I've seen, characters who share information, still have it said in each one of their pages, rather than leaving it to be found it only one of them. So...is this idea valid?18.104.22.168 10:33, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
- It is normal for characters to be seen battling each other in intros of games, this is not acceptable for trivia. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 02:37, December 20, 2012 (UTC)
That I know(is the unregistered person just now), but I wasn't referring to the trivia. I just thought that it seemed reasonable to add it to his 'Video games' appearance section, just like as it is with Gogeta.Kajune (talk) 09:55, December 20, 2012 (UTC)
- Oh sorry, I read that wrong. Sure, a brief mention in the video games section would be okay. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 19:28, December 20, 2012 (UTC)
- If it is truly alright, then who removed it?Kajune (talk) 09:29, December 21, 2012 (UTC)
Broly must be stronger than Bills
there is a fact that Takao Koyama, the creator of Broly mentioned that Broly incresing power every second he fights.
Broly might be stronger than Bills, the god of destruction.
Broly does not get stronger evry second he fights, besides he was defeated by a waek SSJ2 Gohan and 2 kids and even if his power increases by time (wich is not true) he can't defeat Bills cause he will kill him in 1 second Broly is even weaker than SP Cel I am GokuBrolyVegeta.
19:25, September 18, 2013 (UTC)
- 1: Try to write in a way that doesn't mess up the text. 2: Regarding Broly not getting stronger every second he fights, Legendary Super Saiyan and both Raging Blast games would disagree with you there, as Broly explicitly said "I'm getting stronger, yes, much stronger!" and "My Power's rising, overflowing!" respectively, at certain points. 3: The only reason Goku, Gohan, and Goten won against Broly was due to sheer dumb luck, as it was very clear that Broly was holding them by the ropes in the climax of Second Coming (not to mention both the English and Japanese versions of Second Coming, not to mention the Daizenshuu, strongly implied if not outright stated that Broly in that movie was even stronger than in Legendary Super Saiyan). Heck, if we go by Raging Blast 2, Broly survived even that defeat. Besides, if Takao Koyama, Broly's designer, said Broly's power is effectively comparable to Sephiroth's, then that's that, he is stronger. Lastly, Broly is not weaker than Super Perfect Cell. Super Perfect Cell required a supercharged Kamehameha to destroy an entire Solar System, not to mention the Earth (and it was never stated, nor possibly even implied, that he could destroy a galaxy). With Broly, on the other hand, his basic ki shots could destroy an entire planet (as a flashback and his destruction of Shamoa proved), meaning destroying a planet outright is child's play for him. Probably the only one of the characters actually comparable in power output to Broly is Kid Buu, due to Kid Buu's use of a similar type of energy beam to destroy the planet that was about the same size as a ki blast. Stronger characters generally require minimum power output for maximum destruction. And besides, Movie 8 Broly (and to some extent Movie 10 Broly) survived a fully charged Kamehameha, the former at point blank range, also taking it as if it were nothing: SPC couldn't even handle a Kamehameha wave that Gohan parried (albeit with some effort and a little bit of help from Vegeta and Goku). I'm not sure if Broly can actually defeat Bills, but I am certain, thanks to some stuff stated in movies and games that he could at least fight toe to toe with him. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 23:03, September 18, 2013 (UTC)
Bills, SSG, SSJ$ Gogeta, Omega Shenron can't beat Broly in a fight
Not even Bills, or Super Saiyan God can defeat Broly. It is known in a recent interview with Takao Koyama, who is the creator of Broly mentioned that Broly is the strongest in the DB history. This is mentioned after GT. Broly is created to be the true, real Legendary SSJ not Goku or anybody else. Meaning his power rises every second he fights, the stronger the opponent, the stronger he gets. It's just like the incredible hulk from marvel and no such force on the universe of DB can destroy the LSSJ. Takao Koyama said that nobody can defeat Broly in 1 vs 1 combat, not even fusion characters (Vegito/Gogeta) and such. SSG is nothing compared to the true legendary saiyan Broly. c'mon it has a major drawback of time limit, but Broly while he is in his LSSJ state the power rises every passing second. As long as the battle goes on, SSG Goku or Bills, even Whis can't even stand a chance against Broly. I also think he could outclass Omega Shenron or SSJ4 Gogeta. Eventually at the end of the fight, SSJ4 Gogeta or anybody else would lose.
The reason why Broly lost in the movies is pretty dumb. The movie creators couldn't find a way to finish Broly so they did some stupid jobs at the end. It is confirmed by Takao Koyama that Broly is the strongest fighter in the history of DB.
- Just in case someone questions it, to back up the user above, here's the information from Broly's Japanese Wikipedia page:
- "その後、小山は、原作者の鳥山明が初めてアニメシリーズに本格協力した『ドラゴンボールZ 神と神』を観て、その敵役を務めた破壊神ビルスの感想として「『DBZ』の世界では、あのブロリーでさえ破壊神の前には、横綱とフンドシかつぎほどの差がある設定だった。もちろん横綱は破壊神。あのブロリーがなんとフンドシかつぎ。ところがスクリーンから受けるキャラクターの印象は、ブロリーの方が断然怖かった。ブロリーが圧倒的に恐ろしく見えたのは私だけだろうか?身びいきかな?ブロリーファンの感想を聞きたいと思う」と語り、質問者による公式掲示板での「1作目で、あの時パワーを集めた悟空は超サイヤ人の限界を一時的にでも超え大幅にパワーアップしたのか」という質問に「あの脚本を執筆した時には、全くそんなことは考えていない。お愛想なしだが、それが事実。辻褄が合うように、お好きに解釈されたらいかがですか?」と答え「最新の劇場版に出てくる「破壊神」より迫力も怖さもブロリーの方が優っていると観えたのは私だけでしょうか?」と付け加えており、他の投稿者から寄せられたブロリーに関する意見は、質問者とのやり取りだけ残し小山の権限で削除したと述べたうえで「ブロリーに関しては他でやってください。悪しからず」と3度目となる宣言を行った。
- Speaking of which, can someone with a firm grasp of Japanese translate what it is saying? Bing translator (which I verified the above user's claim, and which I can barely confirm that they did indeed say this) is pretty much crap when it comes to Japanese. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 00:36, September 19, 2013 (UTC)
- ↑ 変身における体への負担や、筋肉膨張によるスピードの犠牲については一切言及されていないため不明。
- ↑ 劇場版DVD-BOX付属冊子のQ&A
- ↑ 神龍通信 第6号 2頁
- ↑ 渡辺彰則編「'94memorial」『ドラゴンボール大全集 6巻』140頁。
- ↑ アニメコミックス 危険なふたり!超戦士はねむれない 15頁
- ↑ Cite error: Invalid
<ref>tag; no text was provided for refs named
- ↑ ただし同サイトでは、劇場版シリーズの敵で1番強いのはジャネンバ、2番目はヒルデガーンであるとも記されている。
- ↑ 8.0 8.1 ぶらざあのっぽ公式サイト のっぽと遊び隊、2010年10月19日、2010年11月29日
- ↑ 9.0 9.1 ぶらざあのっぽ公式サイト のっぽと遊び隊、2011年3月4日、2011年3月5日
- ↑ ぶらざあのっぽ公式サイト のっぽと遊び隊、2011年3月15日。
- ↑ 「『ドラゴンボールZ神と神』観ちゃった!!」ぶらざあのっぽ公式サイト のっぽの雑感、2013年4月9日。
- ↑ ぶらざあのっぽ公式サイト のっぽと遊び隊 2013年4月28日。
- ↑ ぶらざあのっぽ公式サイト のっぽと遊び隊、2013年4月29日。
- ↑ Cite error: Invalid
<ref>tag; no text was provided for refs named
- ↑ ゲームなどで設定、命名されている。ただしドラゴンボールZ 危険なふたり!超戦士はねむれないで同等の技を使用している場面がある。
- ↑ 一部の技は既存のキャラと同様。
If nobody could defeat Broly, why was he defeated three times? SSJ2 Gohan alone was able to put a good fight against him. This interview was probably done 15 years ago. Battle of Gods was released 6 months ago. So this statement is obviously outdated01:04, September 19, 2013 (UTC)
- Same reason why Sephiroth, despite being officially labelled as the absolute strongest person alive in Final Fantasy VII, lost to Cloud twice (three times if one counts his first "death" at Nibelheim, and six times if one counts the Dissidia series), the good guy must always win. And SSJ2 Gohan really didn't have a good fight with Broly. Actually, Broly manhandled him. In fact, Gohan only "won" by luring him into a magma pit, and even that win was short lived. For the record, the section does in fact reference Bills, and they commented on it, meaning it had to have occurred within the last six months (otherwise, how could they apparently state that Bills was most likely weaker than Broly?) Weedle McHairybug (talk) 01:23, September 19, 2013 (UTC)
- Once more if we count Kingdom Hearts 2!! And I sure do : ) What were we talking about? -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 01:45, September 19, 2013 (UTC)
- Well, technically, that one was inconclusive (they disappeared into light while continuing their duel). Sora did kick Sephiroth's butt, though (even if Sephiroth merely brushed it off). As far as what we're talking about, Takao Koyama apparently referred to Broly as being the strongest, even after the release of Battle of Gods, and the OP basically commented as much. After I learned from this poster where he got this information, I dug into it, and (although I barely was able to make out the gibberish Bing called a translation) it for the most part proved the OP's claim valid, so I posted this. However, someone still posted that Broly was weak. That's basically the summation of what had transpired, if that's what you are asking. If not, correct me. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 02:27, September 19, 2013 (UTC)
- Once more if we count Kingdom Hearts 2!! And I sure do : ) What were we talking about? -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 01:45, September 19, 2013 (UTC)
Can we get a translation of this dialogue, or at least the important parts? When did it take place, exactly what did the creators say about Broly, did they refer to Bills specifically, etc. This is a very controversial statement to make since direct power comparisons of "A is stronger than B" are very rare among the producers. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 03:10, September 19, 2013 (UTC)
- Here's Bing's translation of the section:
- "Have to destroy the planet one condensed into the size of a Palm, and 腕組 at the same attack Goku and Piccolo while avoiding energy bullets. Also from the brink Goku's turtle Kamehameha you have a body you also received no protection and was transformed into a Super Saiyan of legend and loosing Vegeta . In the play are themselves ' growing... Overflowing ' and telling.
- "Wrote the screenplay of broly appeared screenwriter Takao Koyama 'strongest' and 'stronger than broly including TV anime he is, does not exist in the world"' when made a Tumblr is broly, Goku is constantly fighting and"never beat opponents' enemies are neglect to become nothing but ' do in the frontal attack, something broly win no way , see Goku only to broly never beat"[22 ] , Planning Kozo Morishita ' anyway is a setting that the strongest Saiyan ' and which described him as a runaway anime comics-plus, likes to say ferocious power, as long as the pleasure in destruction and killing only, complete works, ' exactly the strongest Saiyan ', Dragon Ball official site of the Theatre Theatre version ドラゴンボールヒストリー (open end), broly and Goku in the theatrical version of the strongest enemy exaggeration is not written that .
- "About the strongest producers Koyama has said that ' for the unthinkable more than his opponent when considering our next opponent, in the theatrical version three appeared also from the truth ' ' no other man from childhood was associated with equipment for controlling the mighty power. Even in the Saiyan Prince Vegeta did not so require. Just saying I think broly set with producer, wrote the scenario and so don't do? ' Mentioned in the ' is the strongest Saiyan stick to strongest theory so if you have to have a good? And nobody answers questions of futabayama and hakuho and Taiho , who are the strongest of that kind of problem "and has said .
- "Together, depending on the fight against broly infinite strength raising rumors and for advanced control equipment attached to the head and neck and arms, said 'we figured out the detailed settings than portrayed in the film as broly is not making no' . In addition ' he moves on its own put away that seems the story as human beings created by supporting as many people very appreciate the happy thoughts no longer creator hands off. About broly settings, was portrayed in the movie, nothing less than everything. Just each ingenious interpretation is very puzzled, if fans were fun to play to moderation, play with it please. But don't say ' believe and as involved in "DBZ" as a screenplay writer in me is broly the strongest remarks .
- "As long as broly the legendary Super Saiyan State, that leave to endlessly raise?? that asked ' seem broly would enhance is not? was still defeated in Goku ' and said, adding "about broly is depicted in the film at all, further setting does not decide anything. But don't try to interpret how you guys are so fun and happy if you enjoy says ' at least went second declaration statements and future broly related stuff does not treat on this bulletin board .
- "Later, Oyama is watching Akira Toriyama's original author first cooperated fully in the anime series, Dragon Ball Z and God , as thoughts, God of destruction who served as its villain Builth "settings in"DBZ"world, even in that broly God of destruction before the yokozuna and フンドシかつぎ the difference was. Of course God's Grand Champion. That broly loincloth what follows. But impressions of the characters from the screen, broly is positively scary. Broly looked terribly overwhelming, I just wonder? favoring?? want to hear ブロリーファン thoughts ' and the question about even temporarily greatly exceeded power up limit Super Saiyan Goku 1 album a collection of power at that time in the talks, according to official bulletin board "during the writing for that idea that. Always no, but it's a fact. When you like interpretation seems to fit, as are? ' Answered ' God of destruction comes in the latest movie version over broly is powerful too scary and watch as I thought 4-3? ' In said opinion about broly and other contributors from the interaction with the questioner just deleted in Koyama leave privileges and adding ", doing more about broly. Such a situation "and made the declarations would be third time .
:"Stuff, said Akira Toriyama was involved only the character design of the Brolly producer Oyama , these settings by Koyama.
- "Certain special moves that tired even in like proud of each one is sent out from the personality  do not have a brutal attack power and fight Goku. Also, when 超サイヤ人化 and qigong wave and character of the existing difference between unique and still care about the space around the Green effect, wrapped in has become something to that effect is absorbed as if broly to congregate in spherical ."
- Warned you that Bing was a crappy translator. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 03:13, September 19, 2013 (UTC)
Well the "crappy translation" doesn't say that Broly is stronger than Bills. Also, Wikipedia (Japanese or otherwise) is not an encyclopedic source. Wikipedia has the same policy about its article not being allowed to reference other articles. The basic problem there is someone can have two articles reference each other and thereby product a referenced "fact" out of thin air. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 03:17, September 19, 2013 (UTC)
- Here are the footnote translations:
- ^ a b hanging from mat that I Po official site tall and play defense, 10/29/2010.
- ^ Not to mention whatsoever about the speed in makeover body burden and muscle swelling victims unknown.
- ^ Theater Edition DVD box came with booklets Q & A
- ^ God Dragon communication No. 6 page 2
- ^ Watanabe Akira law Edition ' ' 94 memorial "" Dragon Ball daizenshu volume 6 ' 140 pp.
- ^ Two anime comics-dangerous! Super Warrior splash that 15 pages
- ^ However is strong in the theater series enemy No. 1 in the same site, janemba the second ヒルデガーン is also written that.
- ^ a b hanging from mat that I Po official site tall and play defense, 10/19/2010, 11/29/2010
- ^ a b hanging from mat that I Po official site tall and play defense, 3/4/2011, 3/5/2011
- ^ Hanging from mat that I Po official site tall and play defense, 3/15/2011.
- ^ ' Weird 'Dragon Ball Z God and God'!! " Hanging from mat that I Miscellaneous thoughts (SAT) official site of tall, 4/9/2013.
- ^ Hanging from mat that I Po official site with tall 4/28/2013.
- ^ Hanging from mat that I Po official site with tall 4/29/2013.
- ^ Set in the game, has been named. However two Dragon Ball Z dangerous! which is equivalent to using ねむれないで ultra Warrior.
- ^ Some techniques as well as existing characters.
Just to make it clear. Broly is STRONGER than Bills/Whis/SSG or anybody else.
Takao Koyama exactly says Broly is more stronger than Bills. The translation is kinda crappy but it likey means the god of destruction must be the strongest of all DB, however, Broly is more threatning and with his endless infinite power makes Broly a fearsome devil,not a mere god.
An interesting note(discussion) is found in Japan recently. The way Broly was beaten in Movie 8 it took 4 saiyans and a super Namekian Piccolo is almost EQUIVALENT to becoming a Super Saiyan God. That explains the true power of Broly. SSJ1 Goku at that Cell Saga was pretty weak compare to himself at the end of DBZ, but with the godlike power Goku was able to STOP (not kill) Broly from rampaging.
Broly didn't get stronger in M8 cuz his opponents were very weak. Koyama mentions that Broly gets stronger every second with the rule of equal or stronger opponent appears. You see DBZ M8 that Broly wasn't overpowered at the end. Goku gave Broly a COUNTER punch. which means it is a power of SSG + Broly's own power was barely enough to stop him at that time. Watch the movie Battle of Gods Goku turned into SSG and he was able to fight on par with Bills. (5 Saiyan power required to match Bills' strength) Broly was defeated by his own overwhelming power at the very moment. I'd say Broly is not really smart so he couldn't manage his ki or something. Plus, he was way weaker than M10 counterpart.
M10 counterpart Broly gets a huge zenkai boost. Many people forgetting that SSJ2 Gohan in the movie is MUCH stronger than the manga canon counterpart. It is stated in the movie that Gohan is STRONGER than before. It is backed up when base Gohan fights better than SSJ1 Goten and Trunks. what happen to Gohan when he sees Goten transformed into SSJ in the manga? (also original anime) He surprised and barely manages to block his attack! This M10 Gohan base > Canon SSJ2 Kid Gohan > SPC. See the point? Base Gohan M10 can kill SPC with ease! Movie Gohan turns SSJ2 and overwhelmed by Broly! this Movie Gohan is on par with Mystic Gohan or above Super Buu level. M10 Broly is definetly stronger than Super Buu or any incarnations, even Mystic Buu or Vegito. Vegito can't even block a triple Kamehameha from that range. (watch anime and Vegito says double Masenko would've gave him a serious damage)
M10 Broly by himself can take all characters from DBZ. Also including GT Broly can defeat Gogeta 4 with ease. Maybe at first Broly might be weaker than SSJ4 Gogeta but as well as the background info says; The stronger the opponent, the stroger he gets. By that logic Broly is definetly the strongest character in the history of DB.
Nobody can beat him in 1 vs 1 Battle. Its a logic. a fact. I know it can be ridiculous but it is stated by the creator. Personally I think Superman Prime is a good opponent for Broly, nobody else in DB.
- Please sign your post for one and for two where did you get that info.
- Actually, it did state that (at least the whole "fearsome devil instead of a mere god" bit). From the way it was stated, Koyama indicated that Bills (the "mere god") was weaker than Broly (labelled as "fearsome devil", and saying "mere god" in comparison to a "fearsome devil" would imply that the "god" was weaker. "mere" is usually used to imply inferiority when used for comparisons). I don't know if it is what he meant, but I doubt using the word "mere" as a comparitory measure would suggest superiority or even equal-standing (most people don't use it that way, and I have yet to hear of the use of "mere" as an adjective and a superiority comparison). Weedle McHairybug (talk) 02:52, September 20, 2013 (UTC)
- EDIT: Actually, on second thought, I do remember one instance (though only one), where "mere" was used in an implied superior fashion, when Voldemort stated that Dumbledore, the greatest sorcerer in the world, was driven out of Hogwarts by "a mere memory of him." Even that, however, is more of a sarcastic use rather than a genuine form of superiority (Voldemort, or rather, Tom Riddle, was basically inferring that Dumbledore, despite being reputed to be the most powerful wizard of all, was forced to leave by something as simple and "weak" as a memory of Riddle from his diary, later revealed to be a horcrux). So amending my earlier statement to "I have yet to hear of the use of 'mere' as an adjective and a genuine, sincere superiority measure of oneself to another." Weedle McHairybug (talk) 03:06, September 20, 2013 (UTC)
First off, that translation by Bing was terrible and definitely not something reliable enough to base our stance on. The whole block of text was just nonsense with a few English words thrown in. Second, the translation did not say, "fearsome devil instead of a mere god", one of the fans who doesn't know English well said it, based on the jumbled translation. There is no substance to the claim. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 03:08, September 20, 2013 (UTC)
- Hmm, good point. Either way, I know some people who are fluent at Japanese, at least one, from Wookieepedia, being a native speaker of the language. I'll try to get their help for this issue when I have time. Hopefully this conundrum will be settled soon. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 03:17, September 20, 2013 (UTC)
According to the Manual of Style, we give series events higher priority than producer quotes anyway, and Broly is definitely dead and definitely weaker than Super Saiyan 3 Goku. Go ahead though. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 03:24, September 20, 2013 (UTC)
- Never really understood how producer quotes (you know, quotes stated by people who ACTUALLY MADE THE FRANCHISE) are lower than series events. That's like downplaying what God said in favor of what people interpreted the Bible to say. Even Wookieepedia is forced to concede to George Lucas regarding what he says. Nonetheless, if thats what is to be done, then I have no choice but to accept. However, we can't say Broly is weaker than a SSJ3 (heck, besides non-story Video Games (ie, purely gameplay battles), he never actually fought one, and if we go by combined fights in Movie 8 as well as their canonically stated power levels from the Daizenshuu, Broly's LSSJ form in Movie 8 alone would have at the very least been either equal to SSJ3 or even surpassing it, and Movie 10 Broly (where he is explicitly stated, or at least strongly implied, to have grown stronger) most certainly would have surpassed SSJ3.). Heck, thanks to Raging Blast 2, there's even some debatability as to whether he actually died in Movie 10. Still... I'll contact Z-sword, though I'm probably going to need his email address just in case Wookieepedia forbids multiple uses of the User Talk for matters unrelated to Wookieepedia. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 03:33, September 20, 2013 (UTC)
If George Lucas said Luke Skywalker was a monkey, they would say go back to bed sir, you're not making sense. Same thing here. Broly died weaker than the Z Fighters, so he is certainly not as strong as Bills. If we want to discuss a what-if scenario where Broly lives, then maybe? We don't know how quickly Bills gains strength, not to mention Goku. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 04:03, September 20, 2013 (UTC)
- Actually, right now they are relying on George Lucas a large amount of the time regarding Wookieepedia, to the extent that anything he says is automatically listed as G-Canon (highest level of canon) on the Holocron Continuity Database. Heck, that's the reason why Motti's full name being "Conan Antonio Motti," despite it very clearly being a joke by Lucas told to Conan Antonio O'Brien, is considered his canonical name. At this rate, regardless of how the editors feel, if George Lucas does claim that Luke Skywalker was a monkey, that would get a free pass on the Wiki, especially since his word automatically translated to G-Canon. Knowing how George Lucas is proving his senility by the day...
- Well, anyways, regarding Broly being weaker than the Z-Fighters, he wasn't. He wouldn't have effortlessly beat them throughout both of his appearances and left them for dead if he was actually weaker. In fact, both of his defeats were due to dumb luck on their part (Vegeta giving his energy at the last possible moment to Goku after swallowing his pride, and Trunks managing to fire a ki blast that prevented Broly's Omega Blaster from being charged). The scenes made it very clear that it was only a very narrow margin that Broly lost, and even then not due to direct combat. If Broly were truly weaker than the Z-Fighters, he would have been effortlessly beaten and killed within a second of his transforming into a Legendary Super Saiyan by the Z-Fighters in Movie 8, never mind Movie 10 (think how Frieza was killed by Gohan in Fusion Reborn). We definitely know Goku can't gain strength during a fight, yet Broly can (heck, both Movie 8 and the Raging Blast games make that explicitly clear). Weedle McHairybug (talk) 05:49, September 20, 2013 (UTC)
- If he makes a joke that Luke is a monkey and they changed their articles to reflect that as fact, it would be nonsense. If that describes their best practices, then they need to update their policy. Vegeta and Trunks attacking Broly is not "dumb luck" as you say, it is part of the effort in which the Z Fighters defeated Broly on both occasions. When Bills faced them the same way, they were all effortlessly defeated. "If Broly were truly weaker than the Z-Fighters, he would have been effortlessly beaten and killed within a second of his transforming into a Legendary Super Saiyan". Honestly, that doesn't make sense. They don't have to beat him effortlessly to be stronger, they just have to beat him at all. If a boxer wins a close match, he hasn't lost, which is what your statement suggests. Whether you win by a lot or a little, you win. Bills beat Goku and Goku beat Broly, who is now dead. Broly is weaker than Bills. Let me know if you get the statements translated. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 22:49, September 20, 2013 (UTC)
- Do Wookieepedians like their situation? No. But that's what happens when they have something like the Holocron Continuity Database.
- And as far as Broly, weaker implies that he can't beat them at all, when he pretty obviously handed them their butts repeatedly. You want a good example of a weaker fighter compared to a stronger fighter, look at how Buu beat Pit Bull Pete. It would need to be exactly like that with the Z-Fighters in Buu's position for Broly to be weaker. Heck, a far better example is how Vegeta handled Pui-Pui (toying with him, not even getting hurt, and then killing him) Heck, Sephiroth lost to Cloud twice (three times, counting Nibelheim), and yet Yoshinori Kitase and, heck, even Cloud himself effectively stated that Sephiroth was far stronger than Cloud, or anyone else for that matter, and that him being stronger was an absolute, not a relative (meaning he can't ever be surpassed). Broly's situation was similar to that. And yes, beating him effortlessly is in fact necessary to prove that one is stronger than him. It needs to be unambiguous (meaning, killing someone in an ambush, defeating an opponent whose powers, whether willingly or otherwise, were held back, or donating powers and just managing to defeat him purely by luck are not true qualifications of whether someone is stronger than the opponent they just beat).
- For instance, Frieza was beaten by Goku in the anime at 100% power despite the former landing quite a few blows to the latter, and it was implied that Goku held back specifically to see what Frieza's power was capable of. Super Perfect Cell, likewise, was also implied in at least the manga to be as strong as if not stronger than SSJ2 Teen Gohan in the manga (which is even supported by the fact that he actually wounded Gohan in that form when earlier, he could not even stun him with his attacks), yet Gohan beat him regardless specifically because of Vegeta distracting Cell. There's a lot more to someone's strength and power than just whether they won a battle or not. Heck, in the manga, it was even stated by Trunks himself that the only reason he won against Frieza and King Cold is because he caught them off-guard, and had nothing to do with strength (heck, Frieza hadn't even gotten the chance to access his full power before Trunks wasted him). That's why if you want a clear-cut instance of strength comparisons between characters, it is imperitive that they are beaten unambiguously and even extremely quickly.
- Also, Vegeta never "attacked" Broly, he donated power to Goku. And if Broly were actually that weak as you implied, the Z-fighters would have easily beaten him by ganging up on him (if near-dead saiyans and a namek were able to beat him when channeling their power, then fresh ones most certainly would have beaten Broly easily specifically by ganging up on him and beating him to a pulp, it's mathematically logical, after all), yet it was pretty clearly demonstrated that that never worked, even though two ASSJs (which, as Vegeta put it, was three times in power to that of a Super Saiyan), two Full-Power Super Saiyans (which the Daizenshuu mentioned that at least with the regular SSJ transformation, is 100 times that of the base form) and a Super Namek (stated to be stronger than a Super Saiyan by Krillin) were ganging up on Broly's LSSJ form and didn't even so much as give a scratch to him, and that's if they could hit him at all.
- That's not even getting into Movie 10, where Broly actually came very close to beating Gohan, Goku, and Goten and destroying the planet with the Omega Blaster by pushing it down on them (Trunks throwing a ki ball at the Omega Blaster is literally the only reason why Broly failed). Mathematically, its impossible for him to be both weaker than them and yet also not be damaged at all by their ganging up on him, or for his attacks to actually overpower them (Good example of this: Frieza's final attack, I won't let you escape with your life, was effortlessly overpowered by SSJ Goku's Angry Kamehameha when Frieza attempted to backstab Goku. Another good example is Gohan's Standing Kamehameha deflecting Cell's Earth Shattering Kamehameha effortlessly. Again, if Broly were truly weaker, regardless of whether he fired shots into the Omega Blaster, they would have plowed through the Omega Blaster effortlessly.). Do you see what I'm trying to get at? Weedle McHairybug (talk) 00:36, September 21, 2013 (UTC)
- Vegeta did attack Broly go watch movie 8 again I have all three Broly movies.
I hate to be so direct, but you are absolutely wrong about what "weaker" means. If you get beat by a lot or a little, you are weaker. 1 is smaller than 100, and 99 is smaller than 100 too. If you bench 100 kg and I bench 99 kg, you're stronger. I can't be any simpler and your alternate definition is unacceptable. "Beating him effortlessly is in fact necessary to prove that one is stronger than him" - nope, 100% wrong. Moving on.
The only observation I am making is that Broly got defeated by the Z Fighters, then killed by them, and if we count his strongest appearance as a SS3 he got killed by SS3 Goku alone. Bills defeats SS3 Goku with 2 hits and barely trying, meaning that when Broly's very strongest form got killed, he would have faired no better than Goku.
Broly lost to Goku by a little. Bills beat Goku by a lot. Bills could beat Broly by a lot. None of this matters, we're just bickering about something that isn't relevant to the article, and the only discussion that should even be here is if the statement gets translated by something that can speak Japanese. If you have more comments about what "weaker" means, PM me in chat and do not post it here. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 01:22, September 21, 2013 (UTC)
- Fine, I'll quit the whole "weaker" argument (however, I'm not wrong on it, but that's all I'm going to comment on, since as you said, this isn't the place for it). Anyways, I got in touch with Z-sword. He said it will take a long time to translate it into English, and he is way too busy to dedicate himself to translating it to perfect English anyways, so I asked him if it at least mentions anything about Bills and Broly in there, much less whether Broly is either directly stated or otherwise implied to have been stronger. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 04:02, September 21, 2013 (UTC)
- Okay, this just in, we've got the translation in order:
- At the piont when The Legendary Super Saiyan released, Koyama said "Broly is the strongest man in the Doragon Ball world, including not only original films but also TV anime. Goku and his friends would absolutely never win him. But they have always fought the opponents who they can never win. Goku could win such opponents only when they were off guard. If Goku would fought against Broly alone, he would lose. None would be able to win Broly with an orthodox method. "
- And he said "We could not imagine or create the characters who are stronger than Blory for the next films. As a story writer, and as a staff of DBZ, I believe Blory is the strongest character. It is my hope."
- But later, Koyama saw the new film, "Battle of Gods". This is the first film that Akira Toriyama joined as a main staff. In the setting of the film, Bills is the strongest man. He is much stronger than Blory. If Bills is a Yokozuna (the highest rank in sumo), Broly is a Fundoshi-katsugi (lowest).
- But Koyama said "The Blory's impression in a screen was much terrifying than Bills. Would it be my desire as the creator of Broly? But I had never created more than settings said in the film about Blory." Recently, Koyama has avoided the discussion of Blory. He removed many past comments about Blory from the official BBS.
- I guess that means Bills is stronger, but Broly is more fierce, so its up in the air at this point. Either way, Koyama apparently committed orwellian retcons at this point by removing past comments about Broly. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 05:43, September 21, 2013 (UTC)
- But broly should be more powerful than ssj3 goku, right? i mean broly is the most powerful saiyan (there is no controversy about it) so his most powerful form (LSSJ) should be more powerful than goku's final form (SSJ3, Gt excluded). besides broly's energy is limitless and rising every second, on the other hand SSJ3 goku's energy is rapidly consumed. So broly should win easily after some time.LancerEX (talk) 16:56, September 21, 2013 (UTC)
- Broly is not the strongest saiyan he is weaker than Goku (SSJ2), Vegeta (SSJ2), Gohan (Tenn SSJ2/Ultimate), Gotenks Vegeto I am GokuBrolyVegeta.
17:17, September 21, 2013 (UTC)
- The only things confirmed as to who Broly is weaker than is Hatchiyack and Bills, and even then, the former is only confirmed to be stronger than Movie 8 Broly. Movie 10 Broly might have overcome him had they encountered each other. And BTW, SSJ2 Teen Gohan would not have fared well at all against Broly, and I doubt any SSJ2 would have fared well against even Movie 8 Broly, certainly not Movie 10 Broly (in case you've forgotten, SSJ2's power is equivalent to two Super Saiyans, and Broly more than took care of two SSJs. Heck, the amount he took down was closer to nine Super Saiyans due to his effortlessly defeating a Super Namek, 2 FPSSJs, and 2 ASSJs (which one ASSJ alone is explicitly stated to be comparable to three Super Saiyans by Vegeta). Not to mention Goku ordered Gohan to flee at one point in the battle, and this was DESPITE his knowledge about Gohan's SSJ2 power to the extent that he specifically planned for Gohan to beat Cell due to this. As far as Gotenks and Vegito, we honestly can't say whether they are in fact stronger than Broly or not. Heck, Koyama maintained that until Bills came along, Broly is undefeatable, which effectively means Gotenks and Vegito most likely would not win against him. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 00:35, September 22, 2013 (UTC)
yeah right does anyone of them has a birth power level of 10,000? leave goku outr of this cause we all know he's 2.
17:22, September 21, 2013 (UTC)
how could u say that?????????? u cant prove it.
- Not to mention, Goku, who I must remind you knew about Gohan's SSJ2 ability since their training in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber and even intended for Gohan to beat Cell specifically because of his SSJ2 ability, would have made sure Gohan went SSJ2 on Broly, not order him to retreat and try to hold off Broly to ensure Gohan's escape. If you wanted proof that SSJ2 Teen Gohan would not have fared well at all against Broly, Movie 8 or Movie 10, that scene alone is definitely confirmation and proof needed to demonstrate that. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 00:35, September 22, 2013 (UTC)
Broly does have unlimited Ki
if noone actually seen what akira said stating broly was meant to end DBZ but the writers didnt like it
but heres the real proof
Super sayian broly= 6,000,000
Super sayain broly=1,400,000,000?
bt though out the movie his power was rising due to his rage and fightning if ya go back i think i even heard vegeta saying "h-his...power if unlimited"
14:09, November 8, 2013 (UTC)
stuff about broly
19:17, November 24, 2013 (UTC)
- There are at least two uploads of the same trailer on youtube, by different uploaders, plus it gives a release date, so not likely to be fanmade. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 19:27, November 24, 2013 (UTC)
19:41, November 24, 2013 (UTC)
- Unfortunately, the trailer was most likely made prior to 2005 (based on how long it takes between the release of trailer and the release of the actual film), so even though they have a channel on there, they won't show anything that's not current (I know because official Youtube channels tend to delete anything that's not current, having experienced such myself), not to mention Youtube itself was made as a result of the Wardrobe Malfunction during the 2004 Superbowl, so at the time they made the trailer, Youtube didn't even exist. We could check any FUNimation DVDs to see whether the trailer pops up there, especially those dating back to circa 2003-2004 (since trailers are usually created at least a year earlier, if not two). Short of a Youtube video, if it appears on a DVD, its definitely official (as unlike youtube, you need to go through a lot of negotiations to air an advert on the DVD). However, considering the uploads were made in 2009, I'm doubtful they were fanmade. Besides, one of the links (the one I posted more specifically) made specifically clear that the trailer was the original trailer for the film, not a fanmade one. When people create fanmade trailers for things, they generally specify that its fan-made in the description. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 20:23, November 24, 2013 (UTC)
- i think we should wait for more users to say what they think I am GokuBrolyVegeta.
20:29, November 24, 2013 (UTC)
Broly's Power level.
The Super Saiyan state is fifty times as strong as the Saiyan's base power.
"The Super Saiyan 2 is twice as strong as regular Super Saiyan, so the form multiplies the Saiyan's base power by 100x times its normal amount. "
"The Super Saiyan 3 form gives the user four times the strength of a Super Saiyan 2, so it multiplies the Saiyan's base power by 400x times its normal amount." Gogeta's SSJ Power level is 2,500,000,000, so there could be a way to divide this to find out Goku and Vegeta's power levels by the time of this fusion.
Gogeta's power level is 2,500,000,000.
Broly's power level as LSSJ is 1,400,000,000 in Movie 8. He got a zenkai and the sun was needed to beat him in Movie 10.
Kid Buu's full power level is 1,150,000,000. the fused saiyans and Ultimate Gohan were stated to be able to kill him, and SSJ3 Goku at full power could kill him too, but didn't because of foolishly letting Vegeta have a turn.
Fat Buu's full power level is 1,000,000,000. Majin SSJ2 Vegeta at full power who was stronger than Cell Saga SSJ2 Gohan at full power, was rougly equal to but could not kill Fat Buu because of his regeneration.
Perfect Cell's full power level is 900,000,000 by his death. It took a weakened SS2(SSJ Individual's Power X 2) to beat Cell.
Therefor Broly is stronger than Kid Buu(two SSJ2's could beat), Cell(one SSJ2 could beat) and all SSJ2's in Movie 8, in Movie 10 he is as strong as a SSJ3 at best. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 00:31, December 29, 2013 (UTC)
broly is weaker. he has a bigger PL because they are from different sources. broly's and gogeta's are from the budokai 3 game, and kid buu's is from the game taikan kamehameha. they were made by different ppl01:26, December 29, 2013 (UTC)
But he isn't since you are missing the point, it took the power of 2 FPSSJ, 2 ASSJ, and 1 Super Namek to beat him in Movie 8, that means it took the power of 2 SSJ2's and a Super Namek Combined to just defeat him. He got stronger in Movie 10, where it tookthe power of 3(goten and trunks are FPSSJ clearly) SSJ2 combined to beat him. therefore he is not as strong as SSJ3 but he is stronger than SSJ and SSJ2, which means he is stronger than Cell, Bojack, and Dabura. Where is YOUR proof he is weaker?? My proof he is stronger is the info clearly stated on this site. If you can't disprove it then move along and get over it. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 10:04, December 29, 2013 (UTC)
well let's try to fix what you said: it took the power of a near dead FPSSJ, 4 near dead base saiyans and 1 near dead super namek to beat him in Movie 8, that means he's weaker than a SSJ2. He got stronger in Movie 10, where it took the power of 2 weak SSJ (at the level of frieza) and 1 weak SSJ (Gohan wasn't a SSJ2 in the beam struggle) and goku wasn't there. therefore he is still weaker than a SSJ2 but he is stronger than SSJ and FPSSJ wich mean he is weaker than Cell but stronger than Bojack and Dabura. Your argument is invalid
- Considering that Broly actually reacted to Goku's presence during the beamstruggle, Goku was actually present (at least in the sense of being a ghost). And it still took 2 FPSSJs, 2 ASSJs, and a Super Namek (and the ASSJs are stated to be triple the strength of a SSJ by Vegeta, and given the fact that Vegeta said Trunks was the same power as he was despite it being heavily implied that they never actually trained alongside each other in the HTC, with Vegeta even driving Trunks away, which is largely why Trunks kept his getting the USSJ form a secret). Again, if near-dead ASSJs, FPSSJs, and Super Nameks could have beaten Broly, they most certainly could beat him effortlessly while in full power and by ganging up on him. That wasn't the case at all (the movie more than made that clear). And Goten and Trunks' were actually more powerful than Frieza by that point. Considering how Majin Buu, who obviously exceeded Cell, who was stronger than Frieza, actually had Goku choosing them to beat Buu when it was believed that Gohan had been killed (granted, it was due to fusion into Gotenks, but he still chose them over the others), its pretty obvious Frieza wouldn't even stand a chance against them. And Broly manhandled SSJ2 Gohan (not to mention best FPSSJ Goten and Trunks, which the guides have stated that an SSJ2 is twice the power level of a SSJ, so if Broly could beat two SSJs effortlessly without even transforming into LSSJ, its clear he's stronger than a SSJ2), so he was pretty obviously stronger than a SSJ2. Also, if Broly was weaker than Cell, they should have waited until the Cell Games were over and Cell was killed, because Cell was the more immediate threat (heck, Broly didn't even go nuts until Goku got involved anyways), especially seeing how they could sense Cell's power level, and it was implied that Cell very briefly used his full power to incapacitate Krillin with his "warm-up kick" due to Krillin sensing it and warning Trunks about it. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 14:38, December 29, 2013 (UTC)
[User:ItachiWasAHero|ItachiWasAHero]] (talk) 20:07, December 29, 2013 (UTC)
I have heard amny people say that LSSJ is weaker than SSJ3. This can't be true due to the evidence given. In his first appearance it was said Broly was weak in his base form yet when he became a LSSJ his power could be felt all the way on Earth. SSJ3 only multiplies the users power 400x their base and since gohan was a super saiyan 2 when he fought Legendary Super saiyan broly and was still beaten rather easily. If gohan would have been a super saiyan 3 during the fight he would have been 4x stronger than as a SSJ2, and broly looked like he was not even getting tired in the fight. Also just because in the videogames broly goes from a LSSJ into a SSJ3 doesn'y make LSSJ weaker it just makes the SSJ3 form stronger. In GT when Goku was a great ape he transformed into a golden great ape. The golden great ape is just a great ape that has gone SSJ while in the great ape form. The sam could be true when broly is a LSSJ an then goes into SSJ3 the result would be a power powerful SSJ3, or a SSJ3 with the enchanced abilities of the LSSJ form.Gorea Core-X (talk) 12:07, March 24, 2014 (UTC)
Broly's base form was said to be so weak because Paragus was using that mind control device to restrain his power. Before he made his LSSJ transformation, Broly turned into a regular Super Saiyan and didn't even react to a blast and kick from Vegeta, surprising Goku. Since it wasn't suggested to be anything other than a normal, presumably 50x boost Super Saiyan transformation, we can infer that Broly's unrestricted base form is above Vegeta's base form in power.
if LSSJ has a greater multiplier from base than SSJ3, than this would make LSSJ Broly more than 8 times stronger than the one which completely tanked Vegeta's blows, which seems very unlikely. Supposing that Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, Trunks and Piccolo are close in power, then their full combined power would at most be around half of Broly's. Broly was defeated by the power of SSJ Goku with 3 exhausted Base Saiyans and Piccolo stacked on top. I've seen people aruge that Goku collected their energy not necessarily in an additive sense, but like he does for a Spirit Bomb/Genki Dama. However if this is the case, then the collected energy would likely even be weaker; Toriyama said that Ki in the Dragon Ball Universe is made of Genki (power), Yuki (courage) and Shoki (mind). The Genki Dama gathers the Genki in all living things, so if we assume that those 3 factors contribute equally to ki, then Goku was either gathering the full power of exhausted Base Saiyans and Piccolo for a powered up punch, or only around one third of it for a "Genki" punch.
As for Broly's power being felt on Earth, Goku's Super Saiyan 3 powerup was being felt in the Kai realm which lies outside the regular universe; a much greater distance than the one between Earth and New Planet Vegeta.
So, the multiplier for LSSJ seems unlikely to be the same/greater than the one for SSJ3. What about Broly's individual power however? In Second Coming he was able to beat down SSJ2 Gohan who was stated to be weaker from not training for 7 years in the main timeline at least, but we get this from Fusion Reborn:
Goku stated that the fat form of Janemba had the strongest Ki he had ever felt; Goku at this point has fought Movie 8 Broly, may or may not have been physically present in the beam struggle at the end of Second Coming, and went off to fight Broly in Hell at the end of Bio Broly. Goku is aware of how strong Broly's full power is, and calls Fat Janemba the strongest power that he has ever felt. Plus, after Goku transformed into SSJ3, he easily pummeled Fat Janemba and destroyed that form; therefore, Broly cannot be as strong as a SSJ3.
As for power levels introduced in video games/promotional material for them, they weren't stated to be actually official to the series and can be taken with a grain of salt; they pretty much just denote where the characters are in relation to each other's strength (e.g. Gogeta is stronger than Broly who is stronger than Cooler). SSJ2 is twice the power of SSJ, and SSJ3 is 4 times a SSJ2. Hypothetically, if Goku were to transform into a SSJ2 then SSJ3 in the Freeza saga, his power would rise to 300 million and then 1.2 billion. That's nearly half of SSJ Gogeta's supposed "2.5 Billion". Taking Super Saiyan multipliers into account, base Gogeta would be 50 million. It seems incredibly unlikely that a Fusion from Goku and Vegeta would start out much weaker than their Super Saiyan forms. Given how exponentially powers rise between the Freeza and Buu sagas, it's very likely that Goku and Vegeta's base forms are higher than 50 million at this point.
The different video games have contradicting power levels: Scouter Battle Taikan Kamehameha states that Super Baby Vegeta 2's power is 1.3 billion. Base Baby Vegeta was mopping the floor with SSJ3 Goku before going through those two power ups, and the above evidence shows that SSJ3 Goku must be way higher than 1.2 billion by the Buu saga, much less GT. Also, this would make Super Baby Vegeta 2 weaker than Broly, which can't be possible since Goku had already stated that Super Baby Vegeta 1 had the highest power he had ever felt. MassiveDestruction49 (talk) 13:45, March 24, 2014 (UTC)
We don't usually count base forms of Saiyans in the transformation section. But Daizenshuu 6 lists "Normal State" as one of his forms, so should an exception be made here?Neffyarious (talk) 14:46, July 9, 2014 (UTC)
BROLY power Is 100% larger than a super saiyan 2
I was the first, or one of the first network to broadcast the statements of Daizenshuu 6, directly from italy. another way to calculate the power of broly is this: bu goku super saiyan saga has 3,000 kiri, ssj2 adult gohan has 4,000 kiri because it is equal to Dabura. goten is not much weaker then gohan will 1.000/1500 kiri then in the final moment when goku says "all right now" We goku super saiyan + gohan super saiyan 2 + (was transformed in the first battle with broly, it would be ridiculous to think that it is not super saiyan 2 at the end) + goten super saiyan then in numbers 3000 +4000 +1000 = 8000 kiri (broly does not suffer at all) dies from the sun The sure thing is that broly is much stronger than a super saiyan 2 because goku super saiyan 2 in 6000 has kiri. in movie 11
goku + pikkon could stop bio-broly goku ssj2 = 6000 kiri + pikkon (is stronger than goku super saiyan 100%) so it will have 4000/4500 kiri (destroys cell)bio broly 8000/9000 kiri (but can regenerate) (goten and trunks is much higher in movie 11=probabily 2000/2500 kiri)then in a battle 1 vs 1 bio-broly(rigenerate 100%) or broly original movie 10 (does not collapse never protect yourself from everything) can battle with all —This unsigned comment was made by Mick.immortal (talk • contribs) on 05:30, July 22, 2014 Please sign your posts with ~~~~ next time!
Broly's past did not shape his insanity
This is specifically directed to Goku20 to stop any indication that his past shaped his insanity AND to stop the "edit warring". In the Japanese version of the film, when Paragus is talking about Broly's past, he specifically says that his power was what drove him mad. NOT his childhood. I don't know if that was said in FUNimation's dub or not since it has been a while since I saw it (to my knowledge from the short clip I saw, I assume it is), but no indication was made that him being stabbed or him being left out to die helped his insanity in the original version of the film. SaiyanZ 01:33, August 4, 2014 (UTC)
You may have watched the film in Japanese but you didn't provide source to prove your point.
- Yeah, and to address your comment about where it was stated in the dub at least, it was when Paragus tells Vegeta (who is in horror over Broly being the Legendary Super Saiyan) about how he and Broly hated King Vegeta and wanted revenge on Vegeta himself due to Broly being nearly executed on King Vegeta's orders. After giving him the backstory, Paragus says "You will now feel the pain and fear we've endured for so long and then you will die." which gives the implication that Broly did become somewhat unhinged due to his traumatic past. It also doesn't help that Shin Budokai also implied this bit as well in the scene where he encounters Frieza (after 18 tricked the latter into believing he had the Dragon Balls).
- Either way, with the exception of stuff like interviews or the Daizenshuus, since this is an English-based Wiki, we have to keep it predicated on English materials. At best, we can make notes for any differences in the Japanese version. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 02:04, August 4, 2014 (UTC)
- What? I said it was in the Japanese version of the film. I then said that it was in the flashback that Paragus had where he directly correlated Broly's madness with his power. Why are you using Shin Budokai as a source? Why are you referring to it at all? It is a video game. We are talking about the source where Broly originated from, which is his 3 movies. Why should you use anything but that as a source for his biography of all things? Just because this is an English-based wiki doesn't mean you can't use the Japanese versions of a franchise to express said elements of a franchse. I don't know if you look at other wikias, but other shonen like Naruto, One Piece, YuYu Hakusho etc. don't use only the dubs as their gold standard nor does the dubs for any of those series take precedence over the Japanese versions. Why are you placing the dub above the original version anyway? The original is what matters the most when talking about anything Dragon Ball-related. Using the dub would sometimes lead to false information about characters, as in the case of Broly here, as it was specifically stated that his power made him go mad, not "the circumstances of his birth". That's just blatant false info and is not part of the character that Toei or Takao Koyama created SaiyanZ 02:24, August 4, 2014 (UTC)
- You mentioned you don't know where it was stated or implied in the dub regarding Broly's madness stemming in part from his traumatic childhood. I only gave you the answer. As far as Shin Budokai, it isn't called the "personality" section for nothing. And believe me, this EnglishJoker user tried to expand on Japanese elements before you did, but his edits got reverted, largely because there were enough differences between versions as it is. Ask Jeangabin666, he'll tell you since he's the one who reverted most of his edits. And considering how the films don't have English subtitles when I try to watch in Japanese (believe me, I tried that), I can't watch even if I wanted to. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 02:57, August 4, 2014 (UTC)
Because that is how it is done here either add the difference to the notes or just drop it or you can continue to put the info back and cause you to get banned or blocked. This Wiki use interviews and the Daizenshuus as the source for Japanese info other then that we use the English dubs for the movies and anime and manga. Bottom line that is how this wiki works.
- ....But I DID note the difference; I clearly said that this exists in the FUNimaton dub of the movie. Why are you placing the precedence of the dub over the sub?! It's not an accurate script, something which is NOTED on this wikia's FUNimation dub page as well as the general fandom. Why should an inaccurate script's information be placed ahead of the original version? Thats like me saying Slug from Movie 4 was a character who was banished by Porunga (thanks to the dub), when in actuality, it was the evil in his heart that festered. That's just not part of his character and it SHOULDN'T be the information placed on the page, unless someone notes the difference via parentheses or footnotes or w/e. Also, what do you mean you can't watch it with subtitles? Do you know how people watch anime around here? Attack on Titan, Hunter x Hunter, One Piece etc. all these shows people can watch in Japanese THANKS to subtitles. The same goes with Movie 8. Broly's insanity being influenced by his childhood is not something that Toei and Takao Koyama put into his character. That is something the DUB introduced, thus making it wrong. Broly was NOT shaped by his childhood according to the SOURCE material. So why is it still being added as the primary info and not as a footnote? And again, why are you using information from a videogame in his biography? That's not even part of his real character! That sort of stuff should go in the trivia section! SaiyanZ 03:13, August 4, 2014 (UTC)
According to the Manual of Style as it is currently written, we should present both versions of the data with the sources clearly stated. SaiyanZ, you are being too zealous about your pro-Japanese version bias; a fundamental ideal behind wikia is that the articles should have a neutral point of view. When you say, "That is something the DUB introduced, thus making it wrong," you are badly mistaken. These are all fictional events, and there is no reality behind it. One licensed company told it a certain way to an audience, and then a different equally licensed company told it another way to another audience. Neither one is right or wrong—both were simply presented. To do right by our readers, we should present all the information, say where we got it, and if they want to make judgments then it's on them. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 07:03, August 4, 2014 (UTC)
- Yeah, and besides, there have been instances where the dub actually corrects mistakes the Japanese original made. Take Cell reviving himself into Super Perfect Cell, for example. In the Japanese dub of Cell Returns, Cell attributes his revival to his head remaining intact, despite Goku having earlier blown off the entire top half of his body with the Warp Kamehameha, head included (I should also point out that the manga has the exact same error). The dub added in the explanation that each and every cell in his body possessed a will of its own, and that he only needed one cell to fully regenerate to fix that plot hole. Oh, and about your comment regarding Lord Slug, unlike Broly, Slug's evil in his heart has in fact been commented on in the English versions of the games over the banishment bit, so we do note that bit thanks to the games actually addressing the original Japanese backstory over the dub-added versions. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 10:33, August 4, 2014 (UTC)
I'm not trying to be overzealous with my Japanese bias (as in fact, from an anime standpoint, I LIKE the dub voices, just not the script unless we're talking DBZ Kai). What I'm trying to get at is why this wikia is placing the dialog of the dub, in this case for Movie 8, over the sub. I'm all FOR putting dub information, but it should never be placed ahead of what was said in the original version since the original Japanese version is the primary source of information for the creation of the franchise (more specifically, in this case, Movie 8). The question is simple: did Broly turn insane with help from his childhood? The answer is NO, thanks to the original version. Since it was said FUNimation's dub, THAT should be added as a sidenote or put in parenthese or w/e, NOT what was originally said when the movie was first created/released. This is the standard for which other wikias surrounding shonen (forget shonen, anime and manga in general) are made from: YuYu Hakusho's, Rurouni Kenshin's, Naruto's, One Piece's, Bleach's, Toriko's, Hunter x Hunter's.....the list goes on! I would reccomend looking at the maintenance of these other wikias, and I DON'T say that insultingly.
@Weedle McHairybug Cell LOST his head when he exploded on King Kai's planet as well. It's not a plot hole at all: he said the nucleus inside his head remained intact, and thus that's why he was able to regenerate. In both situations against Goku's Kamehameha AND his explosion on King Kai's planet, Cell lost his skull and was still able to regenerate because his nucleus was somewhere intact. The dub about how every cell had a will of its own should be placed in footnotes because that is not what was said about Cell in his original, purest creation (AKA the manga version). Slug however, does not benefit from this; he was NOT banished by Porunga. THAT should be added in footnotes or parentheses or w/e its called since its NOT part of Slug's character. And I'm still confused as to why video-game information is being added to his biography of all things when it's not even the most authoritative source of info on his character. Stuff like that should be added in the trivia box SaiyanZ 17:01, August 4, 2014 (UTC)
- The way that other wikis choose to list info does not influence ours. For instance, Bleach wiki lists Japanese manga info as their standard, and has separate tabs for anime info, which are hidden by default. Content from video games is not allowed on any article not specifically about a video game. These policies lead me to view their site as a Bleach manga wiki, with some side notes about other media (it's a fine wiki, I just don't prefer their formatting). We are not the Dragon Ball manga wiki, but rather the Dragon Ball wiki to include all licensed franchise information, posted without bias as to the timing or geographical location of origin. When you again say, "the original Japanese version is the primary source", that is incorrect. All versions are primary source because they were published as official Dragon Ball media, and we are to list information without any bias. If someone says Krillin and someone else says Kuririn, they are both 100% correct, as both are licensed names for the character.
- That said, we do sometimes need to talk about conflicting sources. Krillin vs. Kuririn is a very simply example, so let's consider it. Both should go in the infobox, and whichever is not the article title should definitely get a redirect. However, we cannot use Krillin/Kuririn every time someone says the name, let alone the multitude of other names, or in Broly's case other patterns of dialogue. Because all info will be stated, picking the one that is mentioned most regularly becomes a matter of what is convenient for the site users. There are wikis for many languages, and we happen to serve the English readers. Since most of the saw the anime, we use Krillin. Since most of them watch the movies in English, as opposed to French, Russian, or Japanese, we use English events as the standard, and put differences in other dubs as a side note.
- TLDNR: All sources are equal, we use English as default for reader convenience. Using Japanese as default would be inconvenient for our readers and bias against other dubs. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 17:34, August 4, 2014 (UTC)
- @SaiyanZ, yes Cell lost his head both times, but the problem is that in the instance with the Instant Kamehameha, Cell's body was the one that did the regenerating (we see it jump up onto its feet and then his arms, shoulders and head pop right back out), despite the fact that his core nucleus was most likely destroyed with his head in that instance. Even TV.Com's episode summary for the episode noted the plothole (in fact, that's where I learned of that plothole). And as 10X_Kamehameha said, we treat all sources as equal. Remember, Dragonball itself might have originated in Japan, but this is an English wiki. Unless the sources are Japan-only, we take the English dub(s) as presidence, since that's what most viewers are familiar with. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 19:48, August 4, 2014 (UTC)
- Well I won't press the matter further then since your minds are made up on using the dub over the sub. I'm still not understanding of why the wikia does this based on the audience, when an English-speaking audience can just as easily view the original Japanese version as well as the dubs. Also, you can't say that the nucleus was "most likely" destroyed in the case of Goku's Kamehameha since one could assume the same thing with his explosion on King Kai's planet (ofc, before it is actually confirmed). All we know is that the nucleus is needed for regeneration, which is most likely the case with what happened in the manga. The nucleus may have been intact in some strewn location, thus allowing the body to do it. Of course, thats jut speculation SaiyanZ 03:47, August 5, 2014 (UTC)
English speakers actually have a much harder time viewing the sub. On English TV channels, the English dub is shown nearly exclusively. Watching the sub either means someone is watching illegally online, or actually went out and bought a truckload of DVD's. However, I'm not actually sure what the ratio is, so I'll do a main page poll ; ) -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 05:48, August 5, 2014 (UTC)
- Yeah, and besides, speaking as someone who actually tried to watch a sub from two of the DVDs, the best bet you can get to an actual sub outside of the internet is getting a bootleg copy and potentially breaking the law as a result. I mean it, because when I tried to watch Japanese with English subtitles on the Cooler's Revenge and Broly The Legendary Super Saiyan DVD, although I most certainly got Japanese audio, I never got English subtitles despite making sure I set it to English subtitles. Believe me, using the Dub for an English wiki's the more pragmatic approach and cuts down on a lot of unnecessary amount of work needed for subbing, since FUNimation for some reason can't do subtitles with a different language audio for their DVDs, at the very least those pertaining to Dragonball. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 17:26, August 5, 2014 (UTC)
- @SaiyanZ: The problem is that unlike the Warp Kamehameha example, we actually SEE the regeneration from the nucleus first-hand. Even if we were to argue that the nucleus survived intact in the former instance, the problem is that we don't see any indication that the nucleus survived, nor do see it even enter or affect his body in any way. And here's what TV.com had to say about it (and keep in mind, they were talking about the Japanese version): "This episode's US version also added an extra line to try to explain things the original did not. This episode (like the comic it's based on) had one of the series' biggest plot holes in which Cell explained the reason he came back was because he can regenerate as long as a certain spot on his head remained intact, the plothole being that Goku blasted Cell's entire upper half in an earlier episode and he still came back. Originally, Cell was planning to die and take everything with him, and didn't count on his spot kicking in. Another thing was that even Cell, himself, didn't know why he came back as Perfect Cell, he was just damn glad he did. The US version tried to explain this. -Coola" Source: http://www.tv.com/shows/dragon-ball-z/cell-returns-30611/trivia/ Weedle McHairybug (talk) 18:07, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
- Forget bootleg then, just use a site that streams subbed anime, like animecenter.tv then or anime32.com.
- We don't need to see it to determine if its a plothole or not. I'm not familiar with tv.com so I can't question if its a reputable source since well, it wasn't a plothole. There is nothing to suggest that the nucleus didn't survive when the same can be said for the later situation (unless we're talking anime) SaiyanZ 19:14, August 12, 2014 (UTC)
- The person who wrote that trivia piece, Coola, most likely had access to the Japanese anime, considering he specifically mentioned the Japanese version and most likely watched it either subbed or otherwise translated it himself. As far as the nucleus comment, considering the fact that his head pretty clearly was blown off and disintegrated with the Kamehameha, and UNLIKE the part about his self-destruction, we don't even see the nucleus at all, and in fact, his lower half jumps back up by itself with no indication whatsoever that his nucleus even entered the body, it is indeed a plothole. Stop letting your pro-Japanese original-bias blind you with what is clearly a plothole that existed in the original version. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 02:20, August 13, 2014 (UTC)
- We don't see the nucleus either when he blows up on King Kai's planet, unless you mean the anime. Just because we don't see something doesn't automatically make it a plothole. It was never a plothole to begin with anyway in either the manga or anime. I don't think you understand what a plothole is: an example of a plothole would be something like Person A being able to do something in an imaginary series, when the logic of said series restricts him from doing so, and said action has no sound logic behind it. That's not the case here with Cell's regeneration. SaiyanZ 23:05, August 21, 2014 (UTC)
- Yes, actually, that very much is a plothole. And please don't give me the whole "we don't see the nucleus on King Kai's Planet" excuse, because we did. Heck, they even dedicated it to a flashback. And either way, even if we don't see the nucleus, the problem is that Cell's body regenerated by itself (his arms, shoulders, wings and head just popped out of his torso even though such an action is completely impossible especially considering his being decapitated, which even the Japanese anime and manga made clear it was only because of his head remaining intact), with no indication whatsoever that his sweet spot even survived, much less entered the body. Unless the nucleus somehow entered his body and triggered the regeneration, there is no way, regardless of whether we see the cell regenerate or not, he should have been able to revive from that, especially if we go by his claim that he regenerated from his head and not from each and every cell having a life of its own. And keep in mind the person who wrote that trivia piece on TV.com had most likely watched the Japanese anime, either with subs or translated it himself, or at least knew someone who did watch it. That, BTW, actually fits the definition of a plothole. And I only cited that example because it was an example where the Dub actually fixed a mistake the original version made. Another good example is when Nosepass was given Thunder Wave even though it was clearly intended to be a different attack, yet the Dub made sure to give the correct names for said attacks during the battle against Roxanne in Advanced Generation. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 02:25, August 22, 2014 (UTC)
- Totally wrong. Cell make full explanation why he survived in his explosion (in original Japanese dub). The real plothole - is how Cell regenerate from Goku Shunkan Ido Kamehameha attack, when it clearly destroy all of his upper part of body, when he's said that he regenerate only if his head (or regenaration cell in) survive, but in this case he regenerate from lower part of body--Date 06:13, August 22, 2014 (UTC)
- Except its not. In both cases when he regenerated, his head was gone. There is nothing to suggest that Cell's nucleus was destroyed by Goku, when Cell's nucleus was still intact after his entire body exploded on King Kai's planet, rather than just his top half on the first occasion. I aready said we didn't see Cell's nucleus after King Kai's planet after it exploded, UNLESS you are talking about the anime, where we DO see it. But what you just described does not form any inconsistency, as we see it is perfectly capable of Cell's nucleus to survive after Cell's head is destroyed. Perhaps it did go inside Cell's body or it went somewhere else, strewn across the battlefield. But what we DO know is that Cell regenerated after his top half was destroyed, indicating the nucleus was intact.SaiyanZ 20:33, August 27, 2014 (UTC)
Golden Great Ape
This discussion should not have been created in two pages. Please just use the Golden Great Ape talk page: http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Golden_Great_Ape#Golden_Great_Ape_Broly Thanks. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 20:44, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
Broly does NOT get stronger the longer he's in LSSJ form
Time to end this whole "Broly's the strongest DBZ character" nonsense. People are so quick to say that Broly keeps getting stronger and has unlimited power. Why? Because he's a "legendary" super saiyan? Or is it because he said "I keep getting stronger"? That comment was in the English dub. I think you guys should watch the Japanese dub before quickly saying that he's the strongest. In the Japanese dub, he says "My ki is rising. It's overflowing!". And what does he do after that? He flies up into the air and fires blasts everywhere while yelling in apparent agony. Even IF(and that's a mighty big IF) Broly had an unlimited amount of power, his body can only take so much ki that he has to expel it from time to time. Overall, he's not going to get stronger while still in his LSSJ form - at least not above the limit his body will allow. Like any other Saiyan, he's gonna have to train hard if he wants to get stronger. The Japanese dub states that his power/ki is overflowing - overflowing meaning "To be filled beyond the maximum amount that something can contain". Broly is not a manga character but a movie character - and since the Japanese dub IS the original source of canon here, the overflowing thing is the fact while the "keep getting stronger" thing is not.
Now I know what you all are thinking: "But he's a LEGENDARY SUPER SAIYAN!". Let me go over a few things:
1.) The form is seen once every 1,000 years. And only one individual every 1,000 years will have the form - therefore it's not a form that any normal Saiyan is going to achieve. Goku's never going to get there despite reaching forms stronger than LSSJ.
2.) Broly has never been beaten oe-on-one. He's not the only one. SSJ2 Goku and SSJ2 Vegeta tried fighting Mystic Buu only to get dominated - they had to resort to fusion to beat him. The same exact thing applies to Super Janemba. Everyone tried ganging up on Hirudegarn with major difficulty in bringing him down. SSJ2 Gohan engaged in a Kamehameha struggle against Super Perfect Cell and required help from Vegeta and the other Z Fighters(who didn't do anything effective against Cell) to bring him down. Had they not helped him, Gohan would've been annihilated by Super Perfect Cell. But just because someone isn't beaten in a one-on-one fight doesn't mean they have ultimate power. Remember that all these characters had different power levels at the time. For example, Hirudegarn would probably own all of these characters in battle if one were to consider him the most powerful character at the time(which he probably was given how he dominated the likes of Ultimate Gohan, Goku, and others). Heck, if his weakness wasn't discovered, he would've emerged victorious agianst Goku and the others!
3.) While he did say that he kept getting stronger in the english dub, that doesn't mean that he has no limit. Remember my earlier statement? The one about where even if he did have unlimited power that his body can only take so much? Even after expelling ki, it's going to build up again. Then he's going to have to expel it again once it overflows again. Then his ki is going to build up again and he's going to have to expel it again once it overflows again. The process will keep repeating itself. There's what they meant about him getting stronger. See guys, he does keep getting stronger just like the dub said - BUT he has a LIMIT to his power. It seems as if people - Japanese fans and Broly fans in particular - sort of mistranslate the whole thing about Broly's power.
Overall - Broly is not stronger than Gogeta, Bills, Whis, Kid Buu, Mystic Buu(or any Buu that is not the fat Buu), SSJ3, Super Janemba, or Hirudegarn. Broly has a limit to how much power his body can handle. We should not assume that his power has no limits just because of misleading dialouge or bullshit sources. For the Japanese dub that I based my argument on, please visit here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNxWwNZZ73k.
Now I'm sure there are Broly fans that disagree with me. That's okay, were all here to share our thoughts and opinions. I'm simply stating mine. And I apologize for any possible typos.LoganNoll1996 (talk) 01:02, September 30, 2014 (UTC)
I have a question for you why did you post this on the talk page instead of in a forum or blog?
- Yeah, and besides, if he can't even be beaten up by being ganged up, that means he can't be beaten one-on-one as it is logically impossible to do so. And for the record, Budokai Tenkaichi 3 explicitly stated that he had virtually limitless power. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 22:30, September 30, 2014 (UTC)
Super Saiyan 3 pic
Here too. This pic is good, don't change it back.22:36, November 9, 2014 (UTC)
- No it's not. it's not even a picture of broly, it's a group picture. Nikon23 11/110/2014 9:33AM
The group pic has others in it, but is full body and gives a much better view of Broly. We could crop out the other like in the Broly-only option, but it looks bad to chop off pieces of him. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 20:54, November 10, 2014 (UTC)
For all of that you could of just used this picture. now that's a body shot
Nikon23 11/10/2014 2:17AM
- Dont change until the discussion is done. You also need to explain why you keep changing the name to LSS3. That picture you uploaded is not as good quality, and shows Broly's old SS3 design (with light green hair), the picture that is currently on the page shows his current SS3 design (with dark green hair).--Neffyarious (talk) 09:41, November 11, 2014 (UTC)
once again group picture Nikon23 11/11/2014
also it's not super saiyan 3 broly, it legendary super saiyn 3 broly! it's just called super saiyan 3 broly in the games. their's even a legendaey super saiyan 3 page. what so wrong about calling this form by it's actual name. you do so for other characters form.
Vegeta (Super Vegeta) (used to be named Ascended Super Saiyan then changed to 2nd grade super saiyan)
In that form Broly is called SS3 in all of his appearances, and is only called LSS3 in one trailer, so we use the name which is used most - SS3. Super Vegeta was changed from Ascended Super Saiyan to 2nd Grade Super Saiyan because Ascended Super Saiyan is a fan name while 2GSS is official.Neffyarious (talk) 11:42, November 11, 2014 (UTC)
so what's your point, he's still a legendary super saiyan 3, it was said and that's what it is. if that's the case, then i can say that about a couple of other characters names, like vegeta jr's mother not being called bulma leigh, yet you call the illusion saiyans by their english names, scarface and shorty. and everybody didn't start using 2nd grade super saiyan and 3rd grade super saiyan until this year. for 4 years the term ascended super saiyan and ultra super saiyan was used. Nikon23 11/11/2014 8:03PM
- He is a Super Saiyan 3. Legendary Super Saiyan 3 was only used once in a trailer for Raging Blast, but in the game itself, it only says Super Saiyan 3, and the same is true for all other sources that have SSJ3 Broly, like Dragon Ball Heroes, so that's the official name. 01:12, November 12, 2014 (UTC)
- legendary super saiyan 3 Nikon23 11/12/2014 6:47AM
Nikon, don't edit war, it's a waste of time and will lead to a ban. Your gonna need to explain more than just saying "legendary super saiyan 3" if ya wanna get anywhere. The page does not need changing anyway so this entire conversation is pretty pointless.--Neffyarious (talk) 11:58, November 12, 2014 (UTC)
it's not pointless. it's a legendary Super Saiyan 3 page on this wiki and yet you want to keep refering to broly as a super saiyan 3 just because that's what he was called in the raging blast games, but yet he was called legendary super saiyan 3 when he was first introduced. it's blasphemy. your basically trying to ignore that legendary super saiyan 3 doesn't exist. it's bad enough theres a group picture being used to show off the transformation, but this is obsurd. Nikon23 11/23/2014
He is called Legendary Super Saiyan 3 only once, in a japanese trailer. Then, when the game came out and the form was officially introduced, he is merely called Super Saiyan 3. The page does exist and that's why it's linked too, but the name should stay the official one.00:08, November 24, 2014 (UTC)
it does matter, he was called a legendary super saiyan 3 first. the page does exist Legendary Super Saiyan 3. if you not going to recognize that their's a legendary super saiyan 3, then what's the point of having sperate pages for a super saiyan 3 and legendary super saiyan 3. Nikon23 11/23/2014 7:19PM
- The form seems different to me. Different eyes, hair color, and aura. On that basis, I'd tend to agree with Nikon23 about the form being separate from regular SS3. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 19:12, November 24, 2014 (UTC)
I think so too, but he was called LSS 3 only once, but all other official sources (Dragon Ball Battlers, DB Heroes, RB 2) all say it's a normal SSJ 3.19:16, November 24, 2014 (UTC)
- All LSS3 are SS3, but not all SS3 and LSS3. Yah? -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 01:26, November 25, 2014 (UTC)
Erm.. not really, but you can think of it that way, like the 2nd and 3rd grade are part of SS1. The fact is that LSS is only mentioned in a single line of Raging Blast's trailer and nowhere else.01:43, November 25, 2014 (UTC)
- so.. once again..... what's the point of having a legendary super saiyan 3 page, if your not going to recognize that broly was called one. Nikon23 11/24/2014 9:02PM
We should certainly either have the page and acknowledge it as a unique form, or delete the page. We have to be consistent one way or the other. Are there any similar cases for other transformations? -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 02:26, November 25, 2014 (UTC)
Not that I can think of, other than Cooler's final form being called his "fouth form" once in a card game - we mention that under the "Forms and transformations" section on Cooler's page, but dont actually rename the "Final Form" section as Fourth Form. The official name of Frieza's race's fifth transformation is also "Super Evolution" (Daizenshuu 6), yet we still lable it as "Final Form" on Cooler's page and "Fifth Form" on Frieza's page, purely because that it what it is usually called. The case is the same here, with LSS3 being the form, but SS3 being what it is usually called.Neffyarious (talk) 02:33, November 25, 2014 (UTC)
So once again... whats the point of having a legendary super saiyan 3 page if your not going to aknowledege that broly has this transformation. Nikon23 12:13, December 8, 2014 (UTC)
We do, it's the same with Broly and Cooler. Cooler's fifth form is usually called "Final Form", so that's what it is called on his page, but it still links to "Super Evolution". On this page the section is called "Super Saiyan 3" (since that is what the form is usually called) but it still links to "Legendary Super Saiyan 3".--Neffyarious (talk) 12:45, December 8, 2014 (UTC)
their's two links on broly's page not one. your still saying it's super saiyan 3 and not legendary super saiyan 3 first. why can't the form just be called legendary super saiyan 3 and have a link to super saiyan 3 and legendary super saiyan 3 on the page. Nikon23 08:22, January 9, 2015 (UTC)
Broly and Goku
If Broly really was Goku's age then he should have been born in Age 734. Otherwise Goku would have been 3 years old at the time of Broly's birth so Broly wouldn't have heard Goku's wails.--Aang13 (talk) 20:38, July 3, 2015 (UTC)
We generally use an image of the character in their most notable appearance for the infobox, we don't have to use their base form. Broly's most notable appearance is his Legendary Super Saiyan state, it has far more screen time and appearances than base Broly, and is much more recognized. I suggest we change Broly's infobox image to a picture of him in LSS.Neffyarious (talk) 13:58, July 30, 2015 (UTC)
- idk, this one is fine. 16:46, July 30, 2015 (UTC)
- We've been through this before. — A (t • c)
- we don't always use use their base form. you should look at Frieza's page since you're always on it Meshack (talk) 18:43, July 30, 2015 (UTC)
Cell, Bio-Broly and Janemba are three examples of characters who do not have their base forms as their infobox picture, they have their most recognizable form (though I guess Cell's picture is arguably his "new base" form).--Neffyarious (talk) 23:37, July 30, 2015 (UTC)
- Base form is the general rule, keeps things consistent. Frieza and Cell can be argued that original and perfect trump their weakest forms. Broly, not so much. He wasn't born a Super Saiyan. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 23:48, July 30, 2015 (UTC)
One source states that Broly was actually born Legendary Super Saiyan... and if base form is the general rule then what about Gohan, Bio-Broly and Janemba.--Neffyarious (talk) 09:12, July 31, 2015 (UTC)
the gohan picture: i has three parts in his base and just shows his life i guess. The bio-broly pic: that is who bio-broly is, just not fully developed, kinda lower than base, about janemba, i can't explain that lol Meshack (talk) 07:14, August 1, 2015 (UTC)
- Actually Bio-Broly's infobox image is of him in his Culture Fluid influenced Legendary Super Saiyan form, his base state had appeared beforehand on screens and while he was in a fluid tank.Neffyarious (talk) 07:33, August 1, 2015 (UTC)
- Feel free to change Janemba's page to his base form. Pointing out a single incorrectly formatted article in not a justification for changing any others. Idk why you brought it up. I could point to 20 pages that are correctly formatted with the character in base form in the infobox. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 23:35, August 2, 2015 (UTC)
Broly and SSJ2 Teen Gohan
At the suggestion of Neffy, I decided to bring it to the talk page.
Basically, the setting of Broly: The Legendary Super Saiyan was established in the Japanese version to be during the 10 day wait for the Cell Games, and while it is true that Gohan's Super Saiyan 2 form debuted much later, if that flashback in Cell's Break Down is anything to go by, Gohan actually had chronologically achieved the Super Saiyan 2 while training with Goku in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber beforehand, and besides which, Gohan being the guy to fight Cell was heavily foreshadowed beforehand by Goku's admission that he can't even lay a finger on Cell after meeting with him and yet having a plan to have Cell be beaten by Gohan. It wouldn't make sense for Goku to explicitly tell Gohan to retreat when Broly threatened him if Broly was weaker than Perfect Cell, let alone SSJ2 Teen Gohan. Don't forget, this is the same guy who actually banked on Gohan beating Cell and very nearly got him killed by Cell under the small chance that Gohan may have what it takes to defeat Cell.
Besides, it's not like movies haven't debuted things far earlier than the anime and especially the manga. Need I remind you that Dragon Ball Z: The Return of Cooler is the first source to even HINT, much less explicitly state that Dende would be the guy to succeed Kami as Guardian of the Earth, and that released almost several months before the manga chapter that revealed this hit stores?
And as far as that director's comment about how they need to make each movie villain stronger than the last, technically, his exact words are that the movie villains Goku faces needed to be stronger than the previous films, he never necessarily said that all movie villains needed to be stronger than the last. Bojack was never even faced by Goku (at best, he only got punched in the face briefly by Goku's ghost), so who says that Bojack actually was stronger than Movie 8 Broly? Besides, need I remind you of Bio-Broly? He succeeded Broly from Movie 10, and he if anything was actually far weaker than Movie 10 Broly, maybe even weaker than Movie 8 Broly.
Anyways, that's why it really should be noted that Movie 8 Broly was stronger than Super Saiyan 2 Teen Gohan. After all, if SSJ2 Teen Gohan was actually stronger than Broly, Goku would have done the exact opposite of telling Gohan to retreat, which is have him fight Broly. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 13:20, August 14, 2015 (UTC)
- If you'll recall the Cell Saga, Goku and Gohan weren't training anymore after their time in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. They were lounging around by rivers, relaxing, and eating. Goku's plan was indeed heavily hinted to be Gohan defeating Cell, but Goku knew this required Gohan mastering the FFPS form, which in turn required days of relaxing while transformed. Fighting an opponent like Broly would have ruined Goku's plan since Gohan would prematurely exert himself battling Broly. A battle with Broly might well have delayed Gohan's mastery of FPSS, and thus ability to stabilize as a SS2. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 23:00, August 14, 2015 (UTC)
- They wouldn't ruin such a big plot point in a spoiler in an unrelated movie. Dende as god is not an important plot point. 00:11, August 15, 2015 (UTC)
- Is it? Last I checked, the entire POINT of being in their Super Saiyan forms constantly is to be able to have complete control over it. Powering down completely to being base forms would pretty much ruin the entire point behind trying to master it as it just means 'screw it, we'll never achieve that mastery'.
- And to Sandubadear, Dende being a god IS an important plot point, actually. Heck, Dende being god was pretty much the REASON Earth got its Dragon Balls back, especially after Piccolo and Kami reunited into a single being. That's definitely not an unimportant plot point at all. Or do I have to remind you that if Dende wasn't brought in, there wouldn't have been any chance at reviving all of Cell's victims by the end of that saga? They didn't have any qualms spoiling that tidbit in Return of Cooler, so if they really wanted to, they could spoil Gohan's SSJ2 form, even rationalizing that the movie's not going to be canon anyways, so why even bother trying to make things consistent or respect the work. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 21:52, August 18, 2015 (UTC)
- To answer your question "Is it [speculation]?" Yes, it is speculation to say powering down briefly is worse for training that being murdered by Broly. In fact, it doesn't make much sense even as speculation. There are some down sides to powering down, but being potentially killed is obviously worse. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 02:06, August 20, 2015 (UTC)
Super Saiyan 2 Goku is stronger than Legendary Super Saiyan Broly
At the end of Bio-Broly, when Broly returns to Hell, Goku is called to defeat Broly, who is rampaging in Hell. At this time, Goku's ability to turn Super Saiyan 3 was not yet known. In the following movie, Fusion Reborn, Goku says that only Majin Buu has made him use his Super Saiyan 3 form. Thus, Goku beat Broly using only Super Saiyan 2 at most.
I posted this in the Power section for Broly's page and it was deleted soon after. Gee, I wonder why? Broly fanboys run this page. If you want respect for this site you have to give unbiased information. Dagon-Ralos (talk) 16:50, August 18, 2015 (UTC)
Sign your posts! ;) Even if you don't have an account, it will help identify you as a different poster than the one under you. At least, it did so a couple years ago on most Wikis...
Anyway, yes. This is absolutely correct. Movie 10 Broly is *weaker* than Buu Saga SSJ2 Goku, and in-general Pre Buu Saga Goku. This is confirmed several times by both movie and anime/manga events and by sheer logic.
1. Janemba (Fat form) is confirmed to be the strongest Ki Goku has *ever* felt. In the movieverse, Goku would have to have felt Broly's Ki if he went to Hell to calm him down. Yet, Goku is able to match Janemba in SSJ2 Form if not for Janemba's crazy space-distortion skills somewhat, and defeats him pretty easily when ascending to SSJ3.
2. Gohan in Movie 10 is a version earlier than the one in Buu Saga. Essentially, this is Gohan before he mildly brushed up on his sorry state training with Goten. This Gohan, in SSJ/SSJ2 Form (For logic and argument's sake, I always assume he was in his SSJ2 state), is dominated by Broly, but not completely; he can fight him, if he can't go toe-to-toe with him, and his and Goten's Kamehaheha wave is powerful enough to challenge Broly's attack (Broly's Ki control and by extension relative power of his attacks compared to his base powerlevel is *dreadful* compared to Z-Fighters) and eventually overcome it.
Skip to Buu saga. Gohan gets defeated a lot easier by a still supressed and non-serious Majin Buu, whom Vegeta is confident he could take. Vegeta is right, by the way, since until Buu gets angry, he is completely dominating the fight.
Logic : Movie 10 Broly is only about as strong as Supressed Majin Buu. SSJ2 Goku/Majin Vegeta would defeat him quite easily, since he lacks any kind of skill to make up for the difference in power (their skill as fighters is way superior to his).
- 1. If that was the case, why did Goku even need Bubbles to tell him about Broly acting up in Hell? Goku could and would have easily sensed Broly's Ki without even being told beforehand by Bubbles, especially when even while restrained, Broly's Ki was potent enough to just barely be sensed from King Kai's planet, and based on what Piccolo stated, his unrestrained state was so potent it could be sensed all the way from Kami's Lookout, and Movie 10 Broly was definitely a lot stronger.
- 2. Trunks' comment about his dad would suggest this was after Vegeta's sacrifice (he said "Father would be so ashamed", the past tense indicating that Vegeta's dead).
- Oh, and if pre-Buu Saga Goku was truly stronger than Broly, he would have just OHKOed him at the start of Movie 8, not clearly struggle with him. And have you forgotten that Gohan and the Daizenshuu explicitly stated that Broly in Movie 10 was a LOT stronger than in Movie 8. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 22:03, August 18, 2015 (UTC)
- 1. Goku went to hell and felt Broly's ki from up close, if the ending of movie 11 is to be taken into account.
- 2. a) If Vegeta was dead, Gohan would be away training, and Goten and Trunks would at least attempt to perform fusion. Everyone would be a heck of a lot more stressed, too, with Earth facing doom from Buu and whatnot. Seriously, nobody has ever placed Movie 10 in the middle of the Buu saga for as long as I've lived.
- b) I obviously meant Goku in his incarnation before coming to Earth, as in, after having an opportunity to train. Although, to be fair, Broly does get KO'ed in a couple of hits by Goku at the end of the movie, so at least it's proven he cannot stand up to an opponent with a relatively equal powerlevel to his.(Venithil (talk) 22:21, August 18, 2015 (UTC))
- 1. Again, Goku wouldn't have even NEEDED to get up close to figure out Broly's power level. Have you forgotten that in Movie 8, Goku actually managed to sense Broly's restrained ki all the way from King Kai's planet, and was shocked by the power output when he got to the start of the trail? And that was when Broly was restrained, heck, before he even realized Broly was the Legendary Super Saiyan he was searching for. Heck, with Piccolo, he didn't even need a formal introduction to deduce Broly's power level, apparently sensing his power all the way from Kami's Lookout.
- 2. a), in case you haven't noticed, the movies haven't exactly kept to continuity all that well. For example, with Return of Cooler, even though it was made perfectly clear that Dende was the Guardian of the Earth and thus took place during the Cell Games, most of the characters seemed to behave as though it was during the Androids' Saga or even the early stages of the Cell Saga. Heck, even the Manga can't keep its facts together, owing to Cell apparently needing his brain to survive and regenerate despite Cell regenerating from Goku's warp Kamehameha and AFTER the top half of his body, head included, was blown off.
- b). Goku had several opportunities to train well beforehand. What do you think Goku did for all those seven years in Other World after the Cell Games? And for the record, ASSJ Trunks, FPSSJ Goku and Gohan, Super Namek Piccolo, and ASSJ Vegeta would have been roughly equal in terms of power to LSSJ Broly, yet they couldn't even beat him despite ganging up on him. If what you said was true, Goku wouldn't have even needed that Miracle Blow. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 22:34, August 18, 2015 (UTC)
- 1. When Broly's restrained fully, a.k.a his father doesn't use him, his Ki is weaker than his father's. I can't really see your point otherwise. Hell may confine people's Ki from being sensed on other places, especially in anime filler, but you'd also have to notice Goku is actually not at all *close* to general 'Hell' if you take a look at overall setup of Dragon Ball cosmos (afterlife included). Point is, if Goku was sent to contain Broly at the end of Movie 11, and he is fine in Movie 12, in inner movie continuity Goku managed to meet and beat post-movie 10 Broly, all offscreen. Plus, if he managed to sense Movie 8 Broly's Ki from King Kai's planet, you could reason he felt Movie 10 Broly's as well. Janemba (Either) > Broly (Either). Goku > Janemba (Fat).
- 2. Movies 11 and 12 don't fit in the timeline. Movie 10 does, because the only thing that is weird about it is that the training workaholic Vegeta, who is the only person at the time who would be able to kick Broly's rump instead of getting his own kicked, is not around.
- b) I don't know what you're getting at here. What I said was merely that Goku pre his re-appearance on Earth, after most of his seven year training in the Otherworld was done, was stronger than Broly.
- And they're not neccessarily roughly equal, but Goku with their energy was obviously close enough to Broly's level for the LSSJ to lose *quite badly*. Blame it on Goku's Ki mastery, technical and tactical advantage, etc. Last, but not least, all of Cell Juniors, who are roughly Vegeta/Trunks Cell Games ASSJ level, gang up on Gohan and get defeated badly. Just because a sum of warriors powers is big enough to damage someone doesn't mean the warriors separately are. In DBZ, a single warior with enough energy is *usually but not always* worth more than two of them. (Venithil (talk) 22:50, August 18, 2015 (UTC))
- 1. Yes, except Goku actually seemed to sense Broly's Ki around the time they met face to face (not enough to put two and two together, but certainly enough to realize he may not exactly be all that weak, based on he was fully ready to face off against Broly before Paragus calmed him down the first time Broly acted up). And I don't recall Hell's power levels not being sensed at all.
- 2. a) I didn't even cite Movie 11 or 12, I cited Movie 6. And for the record, I also cited two manga chapters to top it all off, which is probably the highest form of canon.
- b) Except mathematically, when a person is ganged up by several fighters, they generally have a much harder time trying to actually BEAT them than if it's one on one. In other words, if Goku and friends were actually that strong to beat Broly, they'd just gang up on him and it would be a very short fight, almost a reversal of what Broly enacted on them (remember, Vegeta and Trunks are explicitly stated to be at the same power level when in ASSJ form during the Semi-Perfect Cell Saga, and considering it was mentioned that Vegeta at least was three times as strong in his ASSJ form as he was in his regular SSJ state, that basically means Vegeta and Trunks alone would have had the strength of six Super Saiyans. And that's not even getting into the fact that FPSSJ is basically a Super Saiyan with mastery over the form, and a Super Namek was explicitly stated to be stronger than a standard Super Saiyan, meaning the group would have been equivalent to nine Super Saiyans. It's basic math, you know.). Had it been me writing the movie, and I was to operate with the premise that Miracle Blow implied, Broly wouldn't even last a minute when fighting against Trunks, Gohan, and Goku in their Super Saiyan states, precisely because it's logical that way. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 23:03, August 18, 2015 (UTC)
- You don't recall anything about in-hell powerlevels being sensed because they don't appear in the manga, and in the anime the only way people learn there's an upheaval in Hell is from an information obtained from someone who knows. Movie 11 works on Goku going to hell to beat Broly by basing this scheme off of anime filler.
- As for the quotations, however, I am just unsure what're you arguing against. Are you trying to prove Broly's stronger than Fat Janemba?
- As for maths...
- Anime logic is regrettably : "Power lets you shrug off blows completely/almost completely with a high enough difference." This applies in DBZ. It's not logical overall, I agree, at least not in regular fighting/martial arts. However, if the fighters are just too weak to damage someone in a group, pushing one of them to a level where he can damage that someone just might work. That's how fusion works (except with an additional power boost), and it's what they did in Movie 8. The situation becomes entirely different if the fighters actually can seriously damage the person in question.
- I don't know why're you getting into the math of how many untrained Super Saiyans Broly is worth, because it's pointless. Gohan does the exact same thing to Cell Juniors and the only difference is that nobody he beats at that point is Goku level (except the actual Perfect Cell, who is beaten separately and easily moments later). Cells tried stuff on Gohan, it didn't work. Goku and the rest tried stuff on Broly, it didn't work. However, bumping Goku to a level where Broly's anywhere in his reach did work. Why? Goku can increase his powerlevel momentarily with Ki attacks to a much higher level compared to his regular than Broly can (Broly sucks at Ki control). Goku's a lot more skilled fighter than Broly is (Broly is a berser with no strategy, tactics, technique, or actual training). Combine the two and yes, Goku can punch out Broly if he's in the same realm of power, not neccessarily as strong, even. There was no miracle punch. (Venithil (talk) 23:17, August 18, 2015 (UTC))
Did Broly really turn into Golden Great Ape or normal Great Ape?
Did Broly really turned into Great Ape Golden or just Great Ape?
Well I think Broly only turned Great Ape in the Dragon Ball Heroes but not Golden Great Ape since the Dragon Ball Heroes card specifed it as Great Ape, in addition the card will state whater it is golden great ape or not, As seen in the two figures on the right (Gogeta has the two Japense word 黄金 before the 大猿 but Broly doesn't. Thus the UDM seris also state that Broly is in Great Ape form only. And one more point, green fur is not a trait of Golden Great Ape, it could be both Golden Great Ape and Great Ape for Broly since he is the Legendary Super Saiyan. Bardock ssj2 (talk) 13:06, October 22, 2015 (UTC)
- Did Baby go Great Ape or Golden Great Ape? Answer is he went Golden Great Ape, but his form is always called "Great Ape" instead, even in DBH. Broly is the same. His form lacks the traits of a normal Great Ape, but has all of the traits of a Golden Great Ape form (e.g. Super Saiyan hair, fur color the same color as their Super Saiyan form, having transformed from a Super Saiyan form into the Great Ape form, and also preceding Super Saiyan 4). It's simply that Golden Great Ape is sometimes referred to as Great Ape.Neffyarious (talk) 13:20, October 22, 2015 (UTC)
Good points about the Golden Great Ape taits however some are not fully supported. For starters the hairstyle of the Golden Great Ape must not be the same as the user's original hairstyle, as seen in Vegeta's case, When Vegeta transformed into a Golden Great Ape, his hairstyle is still the same when he transfromed into a normal ape during the battle with Goku on earth although his normal hairstlye did change from Dragon Ball Z to GT. The second invalid point is about transforming from Super Saiyan form to golden great ape, it doesn't really acuire the Saiyan to become a Super Saiyan before transforming (Goku and Vegeta transformed into Golden Great Ape from their Base form) and in Gogeta's case Super Saiyan 3 could also perform same result. At lastly Broly did not naturally preced to Super Saiyan 4, he got the help from Black Smoke Shenron and this kind of help is different from Bulma's blutz wave because the blutz wave that helped Vegeta transform is the same factor that helped Goku except in a mechanical way but Black Smoke Shenron used his own magic powers to aid Broly. Bardock ssj2 (talk) 14:44, October 22, 2015 (UTC)
By the way if Broly really did transform into Golden Great Ape then procced to Super Saiyan 4, why is there a great ape transformation section on Broly's page. Bardock ssj2 (talk) 14:44, October 22, 2015 (UTC)
- As far as we know a GA's hair never changes so that Isnt a problem with Vegeta. What I mean is that combining GA with an SS form results in GGA, and Broly went GA as SS3 resulting in GGA. I altered the page anyway though to combine the two Great Ape sections, the header says "Golden Great Ape" since that is the form, and it says in the first sentence that he is called "Great Ape Broly" in the form (like Baby).Neffyarious (talk) 10:29, October 23, 2015 (UTC)
Broly is MUCH stronger than whis. This is a Fact.
Let's see in BoG Vegeta punched Bills (Beerus) and he WAS DAMAGED.
DBZ movie 8, Vegeta kneed, punched, and shot multiple blast against Broly and Broly DIDN'T even flinch.
And Koyama, the creator of Broly ALREADY MENTIONED that BROLY IS THE STRONGEST in All DB series.
Broly's power is maximum, he can one shot Superboy prime and Darkseid, One Above All and all the anime and comic characters.
OK who has the Balls?!
And where from this info in infobox?
LSSJ Broly's power level (stated by me)
Hi people of the wikia, my name is Carlos and today i'll try to explain my opinion of Broly's power level, so, hey, yo, and let's go!!!
Well, first, in movie 8 (Broly the legendary Super Saiyan) is established that LSSJ Broly dominated the z warriors (FPSSJ Goku/Gohan, ASSJ Trunks/Vegeta and Kamiccolo), considering that FPSSJ Goku was fithing toe-to-toe with Regular Perfect Cell using a decent amount of his power, Broly would be stronger than Regular Perfect Cell, but not as strong as SSJ2 Teen Gohan or Super Perfect Cell, because Broly dominated the Z warriors, but SSJ2 Teen Gohan just one-shotted the Cell Jrs that were a bit stronger than the Z-Warriors and were larger amount, so was a different level, this means that SSJ2 Teen Gohan and SPC (At the same tier but a bit weaker) they are capable of even dominating LSSJ Broly from movie 8, with that i believe that m8 LSSJ Broly's power level is around 290.000.000 (SSJ2 Goku's tier, if you want to know why i think SSJ2 Teen Gohan is stronger than SSJ2 Goku just ask me).
Now, let's analyse movie 10 (Broly Second Coming) LSSJ Broly, well, for this i will use evidences of the films: Movie 10, Bio Broly and Fusion Reborn for this, first point, in the end of Bio Broly Goku is called to defeat Broly with Pikkon because he was rampaging in hell, if he was rampaging this means that he was stronger than SPC because he was the stronger villain to go to the hell so far, and rampaging can means that no one was able to beat him in the hell, so he was stronger than Super Perfect Cell, in Rusion Reborn Goku says that only Janemba and Majin Buu forced it to turn into SSJ3 so this wasn't necessary with Broly in hell, so, he's not at SSJ3 tier, let's continue, Pikkon easly defeated supressed SPC that i believe that was at Regular Perfect Cell tier, and how Goku used FPSSJ/SSJ2 to defeat Broly, means that Pikkon and SSJ2 Goku combined powers was around 500.000.000 (the same power than SSJ2 Teen Gohan in my opinion), so LSSJ M10 Broly was at SSJ2 Goku/Pikkon power level tier but he losed the fight because of his huge lost of resistance (He was taking damage for one weaken Base Gohan in movie 10) and by consequence would lose to SSJ2 Teen Gohan, so m10 LSSJ Broly's power level around a bit smaller than 500.000.000.
If you want know LSSJ3 Broly's power, ask to me, or maybe in another day i can do it, and about Bio Broly, i'll say his power in the Bio Broly's talk later ok, so good bye
- Dude you need to be doing this stuff in blog or forum not on the talk pages for the character since they are actually meant to discuss formatting issues. I swear I have hardly ever seen someone on here who takes a little advice from someone and completely ignores the main piece of advice given to them by that person believe me if I was allowed to remove this and every other thing like it you post on characters talk page I would. I also think you need to read the rules but here is the main one that applies to you right now "Article talk pages are for discussing formatting and edit conflicts. Please direct all other conversations to forums, blogs, and chat."
Broly's Super Saiyan 4 form should probably have a separate page from regular Super Saiyan 4. In Dragon Ball Heroes Broly's Super Saiyan 3 and Super Saiyan 4 forms are treated differently from the regular versions of the forms, and he transforms into them via Legendary Super Saiyan.--Neffyarious (talk) 04:28, February 24, 2016 (UTC)
- How about we leave Broly's Super Saiyan 3 form out of this since we already have a page for it called Legendary Super Saiyan 3 since it was called that in a trailer by Goku.
- Same here it looks like Legendary Super Saiyan except with Super Saiyan 4 features so to me it is Legendary Super Saiyan 4 but we can't just rename it that because we have to use official media names.
I already know that Broly's SS3 was called LSS3, that's why I didn't say to make another page for it. It's Broly's SS4 that needs a page, but I don't know if it should be called "Super Saiyan 4 (Broly)" or "Legendary Super Saiyan 4". The form is definetley different from normal SS4 since it's a further transformation of LSS and is treated as separate from normal SS4 in DBH, even if it is referred to with the same name.--Neffyarious (talk) 04:45, February 24, 2016 (UTC)
- if dbh has referred to it as lssj4 then go for it but if it doesn't, we should not do it Meshack (talk) 04:47, February 24, 2016 (UTC)
In that case I'd say we should merge "Legendary Super Saiyan 3" into Super Saiyan 3. If one of Broly's forms gets special treatment they all should, otherwise none should get their own pages.--Neffyarious (talk) 04:57, February 24, 2016 (UTC)
- Did the Japanese trailer for Raging Blast say "legendary Super Saiyan 3" or "Legendary Super Saiyan 3"? Meshack (talk) 05:06, February 24, 2016 (UTC)
It said "Legendary", either because that is the form name, or simply due to it being the first word in the sentence (so it would have to start with a capital). LSS3 is always referred to as SS3 anyway other than that one time.--Neffyarious (talk) 13:48, February 24, 2016 (UTC)
- Merging the LSS3 and LSS4 pages with the regular SS3 and SS4 pages seems like it would work well. From a user experience perspective, it's interesting to see the different form variations, and a nice treat for someone reading the SS3 or SS4 articles to find Broly's version on the same page as well. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 01:42, February 26, 2016 (UTC)
Regarding his pictures.
- If they're better images, sure! Don't see anything wrong with that. -- • • 18:39, June 22, 2016 (UTC)
Broly - Second Coming trailer and BT3 opening.
Earlier, Bullza and another user tried to remove citations regarding Broly's strength in the English Second Coming Teaser and the Budokai Tenkaichi 3 opening. I see absolutely no reason why we can't cite them, since last I checked, those were official materials anyways, and thus can be cited. Besides, in the case of the Second Coming trailer, considering we cite that he has a Legendary Super Saiyan 2 form and even go so far as to have an article on the form even when literally the only thing even hinting at it was a Topps trading card that wasn't even made under the supervision of Toei Animation, and at most was only licensed by FUNimation, I really don't see how it being English-exclusive is a good reason to remove it. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 10:19, January 18, 2017 (UTC)
The video game opening information was removed for the same reason it was removed off of other characters pages. It's merely an opening and not an indicator of anything. We don't include on Frieza's page that he's stronger than Super Saiyan Vegeta because he overwhelmed him in the Budokai Tenkaichi 1 opening. We don't include that Cooler gave Super Saiyan 2 Gohan trouble in the Raging Blast 2 opening and many more examples.
The other thing was just an old American TV commerical made to hype up the movie. A movie that in the timeline was supposed to take place before Buu even appeared and being a movie has it's own continuity anyway. It says that he's the strongest in the universe which is factually wrong given the information we have now. It's just an advert.Bullza (talk) 14:27, January 18, 2017 (UTC)
- Fine, I'll give you the opening, but I still don't see how it being an old American TV commercial is any real reason to remove it. As you said, it has its own continuity anyways, and besides which, even if we are to assume they were in continuity, the only villains specifically confirmed to be more powerful than Broly under any absolute terms is Hirudegarn (due to the mandate that Movie Villains be more powerful than the last, with only Bio-Broly and possibly Bojack being exceptions to that rule) and Beerus (due to even Koyama acknowledging that Broly is weaker than Beerus (and by extension Whis), even if the former indicates he's a "ruthless devil" compared to the latter), maybe even Golden Frieza as well if a comment by the last guy is of any indication (though then again, it's implied that even that state for Frieza was still weaker than Beerus or Majin Buu, so I really don't know if he'd still be stronger than Broly anyways). Hatchiyak technically was only stated to be stronger than Movie 8 Broly, not Movie 10 Broly, so I'm not sure whether he counts. And as far as Zamasu, it's unlikely that he would have been stronger than Beerus, especially considering what happened to the original Zamasu when he tried to pick a fight with Beerus (not to mention the only reason Black Goku and alternate future Zamasu were even able to do all that carnage towards Future Trunks' timeline was because Dabura indirectly killed Beerus via killing Supreme Kai (and considering that Supreme Kai would most likely have been weaker than that version's Majin Buu like in the original timeline, it's highly unlikely that one would have fared well against Broly anyway, same with either version of Zamasu or even his fused form.). And considering most of those guys were technically not part of the living plane (being deities or demons, with only Hatchiyak and possibly Hirudegarn and Golden Frieza being an exception), that technically leaves Broly being the strongest by default. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 21:47, January 18, 2017 (UTC)
Well I don't think it was just singling out the villains. It said strongest in the universe right? So that should include heroes too.
What about Janemba? He was said to be stronger than Hirudegarn. There's no way Broly can be as strong as Golden Frieza if he were overwhelmed by Gohan, Goten and Goku in the way he was. What about Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan Blue?
I dunno, I just don't think it's a worthwhile enough source and it's contradictory and possibly confusing for readers but if you want to put it back in and the others are fine with it then do what you'd like. I won't remove it again.Bullza (talk) 23:18, January 18, 2017 (UTC)
- Yeah, and considering the heroes only barely beat him through sheer dumb luck both times, I'm pretty sure Broly was stronger there as well. Want a clear instance of a character being stronger than another? Have them outright beat them with minimal effort, and not via any dumb luck or lucky breaks. Try how Master Roshi easily killed Captain Dark with a single blow, for example.
- As far as your second point, actually, if the main writer for the movies is to be believed, it's more likely for Hirudegarn to be stronger than Janemba, mostly because it's an unwritten rule that any movie villains that Goku faces needs to be stronger than the previous one (Bojack doesn't count, since Goku never actually fought him, and Bio Broly was pretty easily getting beaten around by Krillin, despite the original Broly in the previous movie easily knocked Krillin out before the latter could even move in to attack, so obviously Bio Broly is an exception to that rule [and besides, he wasn't fought by Goku either, and in fact, Goku played absolutely no role whatsoever in Bio-Broly's defeat, unlike with Bojack where he at least "broke the rules" by coming back to Earth for a single minute specifically to save Gohan from Bojack and allow Gohan a chance at beating Bojack.].) Not to mention the time periods were long enough apart that we can naturally assume that the heroes got stronger from the previous movie [unlike with Bio Broly and Broly Second Coming, where it was closer to being a matter of days at most, not enough time to get stronger]. And at the time the movie was made, Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan Blue weren't even an idea, though I would assume that Super Saiyan God might be capable of at the very least going toe to toe with Broly's LSSJ form if not eclipsing it outright. Then again, give Broly enough time, and his power might increase to the extent that he might be capable of defeating even that one. Same with Super Saiyan Blue.
In the trivia section it says:
- Broly was the only villain - apart from Final Form Frieza - against whom, after realising his power, Vegeta felt truly helpless. This is clearly evident as when Piccolo attempts to persuade him, he just states that fighting him would be pointless because they could not win, and simply kneels there feeling the battle to be lost.
What about Beerus? Vegeta was willing to accept being killed by him.
- Fair enough, feel free to remove or modify it. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 12:51, January 19, 2017 (UTC)
It's protected from editing by new and unregistered users. This page historically gets a lot of vandalism. I'll remove the trivia. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 14:06, January 21, 2017 (UTC)
Great Ape should be Golden Great Ape?
Since the form is clearly Broly's precursor to SS4, and a combination of his LSS form and Great Ape, shouldn't the form just be listed as Golden Great Ape, with a link to Legendary Great Ape? Even though we haven't seen his regular Great Ape form, it still seems pretty clear that it's his version of Golden Great Ape. Gildeds (talk) 18:05, May 13, 2017 (UTC)
Source for height.
- Does this count as a source?
It's hilarious how far people will go to try and make Broly relevant. Takao Koyama literally stated every movie villain is stronger than the one in the previous movie, and yet you guys are trying to twist his words into meaning only who Goku fights, despite the fact you understood that he meant "movie villains" in general and that he said Goku because he is the main hero and 99% of the movies depict him as the hero... Kepekley23 (talk) 18:28, June 16, 2017 (UTC)
- If he wanted to just indicate that he was meaning movie villains in general, he should have just said the opponents the Z-Fighters face in the movies, not specifically state Goku regarding who the villains face. I go by exact, literal words, so if I were in his position and I meant movie villains in general, I'd just leave it at "Z-fighters" specifically to avoid implying that it needs to be those Goku faces. And for the record, even if I WEREN'T a Broly fan, I'd still say this, since, again, I go by exact words, and his exact words specifically mentioned those Goku faced.
- Besides, Bio-Broly pretty obviously wasn't stronger than Movie 10 Broly considering Krillin was actually able to go toe to toe with Bio-Broly, while in Movie 10, he literally got slammed into a cliff via one of Broly's ki attacks and got knocked out afterwards before he could even move in to attack, so there's at least one confirmed instance where the succeeding movie villain was not at all stronger than the previous one. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 22:26, June 16, 2017 (UTC)
- Use a simple logic - opponents who GOKU faced. Goku faced Broly in both cases - but not in the third. So it's pretty obvious and logical that Broly is weaker than Bojack for example, but Bio-Broly is weaker then his original.--Date 08:01, June 17, 2017 (UTC)
- No, Goku didn't face Bojack. In case you've forgotten, Goku was DEAD and in Other World for most of the movie, and the only real role Goku played in Bojack's defeat was when he broke the rule and Instant Transmissioned to the living plane long enough to save Gohan's hide. It was Gohan who faced off, beat, and killed Bojack, NOT Goku. Ergo, Goku did not face Bojack or play any role in the fight other than ensuring Gohan didn't die from a Bear Hug. You are correct regarding Goku facing Broly both times (though that being said, the film makes it ambiguous as to whether Goku actually was present the second time around), but not the third, though. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 15:43, June 19, 2017 (UTC)
- You right. But Bojack power is proved by more other reasons--Date 16:26, June 19, 2017 (UTC)
- How, exactly, can this be proven? Goku never fought Bojack at all, it was Gohan who did so. And besides which, Goku telling Gohan to flee would suggest that Broly's Legendary Super Saiyan form would outright murder Gohan even if he were to go Super Saiyan 2 (and please don't try to state that they were trying to hide that Gohan had access to the form before it debuted. Return of Cooler practically spoiled Dende being the new guardian and, most likely, his gaining the Dragon Balls before that revelation even occurred in the manga, let alone the anime, so if they can reveal that bit, they most certainly can unveil Gohan going Super Saiyan 2, and even justify showing it without spoiling it by having him forget he even transformed into it, like how Gohan powered up against Garlic Jr. in Dead Zone.). Meanwhile, Goku expressed utter confidence that Bojack stood no chance against Gohan when learning about him, something he did not express when fighting Broly. And considering the exact words from that guide specifically mentioned that villains Goku faced needed to be stronger than the last, and Goku never actually faced Bojack, it's not hard to put two and two together that Broly was stronger. And don't think I'm simply saying this because I'm a Broly fan. If it were any of the other movie villains in his stead, or any other movie villain's stead, or both, (Lord Slug, Cooler, Turles, Android 13, Dr. Wheelo, Bojack, Garlic Jr., Janemba, Hirudegarn, you name it), I'd say the exact same thing. Heck, if it were Bojack who had the three movies, and Broly had Bojack Unbound, I'd be making the exact same arguments for Bojack being stronger than Broly that I am vice versa. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 23:27, June 19, 2017 (UTC)
- Only Beerus, Super Janemba, and Evolved Hirudegarn are stronger than Movie 10 Broly. In the official Trailer for Second Coming, Broly is made clear to be stronger than any foe who came before Second Coming, at the time it was Fat Buu who was the current villain in DBZ, so Movie 10 Broly is stronger than Fat Buu who is stronger than Majin Vegeta who is stronger than Super Perfect Cell and Bojack. Super easy, common logic. QuakingStar (talk) 23:35, June 19, 2017 (UTC)
- I'll give you Beerus due to Broly's writer pretty much confirming that (besides, personally, I was sick and tired of the mortals being stronger than gods in the series anyway, and he's the only character consistently shown to be stronger than Broly, though I'd argue that Broly God would probably at the very least give Beerus a run for his money), but I'm hesitant to state Super Janemba and Evolved Hirudegarn were stronger than Movie 10 Broly, mostly because some of the video games and guidebooks indicated Broly was the absolute strongest of any of the characters, many times even including Janemba and/or Hirudegarn, heck, a few times even counting Omega Shenron. You might want to count Whis and most likely Zeno among those stronger than Broly as well, since those two are definitely confirmed to be much stronger than Beerus (well, okay, Zeno might not be able to actually FIGHT Broly, but Whis most certainly can since he's the one who trained Beerus.). Weedle McHairybug (talk) 00:52, July 13, 2018 (UTC)
- Only Beerus, Super Janemba, and Evolved Hirudegarn are stronger than Movie 10 Broly. In the official Trailer for Second Coming, Broly is made clear to be stronger than any foe who came before Second Coming, at the time it was Fat Buu who was the current villain in DBZ, so Movie 10 Broly is stronger than Fat Buu who is stronger than Majin Vegeta who is stronger than Super Perfect Cell and Bojack. Super easy, common logic. QuakingStar (talk) 23:35, June 19, 2017 (UTC)
New page for the movie version
Going by a translation that Wikia isn't allowing me to post because of the image host seemingly of AT's comments, this new movie Broly seems to be a complete remimagining of the character. Should he get a new page seeing as he has nothing to do with the DBZ movie version? Or is it still to early to really tell just from that blurb? Jeov (talk) 21:42, July 9, 2018 (UTC)
“Parallel Broly”? Seriously?
Most of you guys make many very questionable decisions and edits across this wiki (numerous junk trivia slapped on every article and the Infinite Zamasu page as examples), but Parallel Broly? I’m all for the idea of a separate Broly page, but this is a terrible name. Broly (DBZ) or Broly (DBZ M8) sound much more better than this. This is why this wiki is mocked so much by the internet... Parallel Broly should not stick at all. --OmegaRasengan (talk) 23:00, July 12, 2018 (UTC)
That's because most of the movies in happen in parallel world from the main series, so this Broly is a parallel counterpart to the main Broly that's about to appear. DragonEmeperor (talk) 23:40, July 12, 2018 (UTC)
- Not the point, dude. The point is that Parallel Broly is a ridiculous name. --OmegaRasengan (talk) 23:52, July 12, 2018 (UTC)
- Well how about you come up with a name? We can't call him non-canon Broly, because their is no official canon.--Invader Rob II (talk) 00:13, July 13, 2018 (UTC)
- Eh, not particularly fond of the title anyways (besides, technically we don't even know if Triple Threat even qualifies under Parallel World. All we really know is that it's in a separate dimension from the anime and manga timeline at this point. For all we know, it could easily be part of the Xeno dimension. Unless it explicitly states Parallel World [as in the proper noun, not just a descriptor], we really shouldn't described it as Parallel Broly), but hey, it's the best we've got at the moment especially given the circumstances. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 00:45, July 13, 2018 (UTC)
- Guys, if you’re going to participate in this discussion, READ, please. You guys are just skimming over what I say. I made suggestions in the first comment of this discussion, in bold.--OmegaRasengan (talk) 01:54, July 13, 2018 (UTC)
- Well, we can't use Broly (DBZ) since Dragon Ball Z and Dragon Ball Super occur in the same timeline (not to mention the same dimension). As far as Broly (DBZ M8), that's a bit better of a name, but that would imply it only covered Broly in the eighth movie, and Broly, unlike most other villains, is a multi-movie villain. And either way, that's ultimately up to the mods to decide. Personally, I would suggest Broly (Triple Threat Trilogy), that should work as a nice compromise: It would avoid implying that the three Broly movies were part of the main timeline, yet at the same time, it also avoids implying they're part of the Parallel World (and let's face it, the only movies explicitly confirmed to be part of the Parallel World are Curse of the Blood Rubies, Mystical Adventure, and Super Android 13!), and it also takes into account Broly being in multiple movies instead of just one. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 02:00, July 13, 2018 (UTC)
- Guys, if you’re going to participate in this discussion, READ, please. You guys are just skimming over what I say. I made suggestions in the first comment of this discussion, in bold.--OmegaRasengan (talk) 01:54, July 13, 2018 (UTC)
- Eh, not particularly fond of the title anyways (besides, technically we don't even know if Triple Threat even qualifies under Parallel World. All we really know is that it's in a separate dimension from the anime and manga timeline at this point. For all we know, it could easily be part of the Xeno dimension. Unless it explicitly states Parallel World [as in the proper noun, not just a descriptor], we really shouldn't described it as Parallel Broly), but hey, it's the best we've got at the moment especially given the circumstances. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 00:45, July 13, 2018 (UTC)
- Well how about you come up with a name? We can't call him non-canon Broly, because their is no official canon.--Invader Rob II (talk) 00:13, July 13, 2018 (UTC)
I agree with Weedle's suggestion on this. It's our best course of action and makes much more sense than calling him "Parallel Broly" when there's no official confirmation he's from the parallel world. ExyleCage (talk) 19:17, July 15, 2018 (UTC)
Berserker Super Saiyan
Why did we merge parallel broly back into the mainstream broly? Having them sepereate was a great way to keep them two apart (they are not the same character, they share a name and similar idea).J spencer93 (talk) 01:16, July 16, 2018 (UTC)
It's largely because we'd have to do it for ALL the characters for some reason, especially since one of the mods thought it was a good idea to split all the characters into Parallel Worlds characters thanks largely to something Toriyama said about the movies (even though the only movies that were actually confirmed explicitly to occur in the Parallel World were Curse of the Blood Rubies, Mystical Adventure, and Super Android 13, with it being left ambiguous as to whether the other DBZ movies barring the two Super backdoor pilot films are Parallel World or main timeline or, heck, even a different dimension from either.), and other than Goku (whose article IS already large enough as it is even without the movies thanks in large part to his being the main character), the other characters really don't have much to go on regarding separate articles. Personally, I do think Broly should at least get something similar, if only because he's explicitly confirmed to be a separate entity from the one from the original films (and some spinoffs like Super Budokai Tenkaichi). Same goes for Lieutenant Blue (who is actually radically different from General Blue in various respects, in particular that he's an actual good guy). Weedle McHairybug (talk) 21:33, July 16, 2018 (UTC)
Two things 1: more movies then that are confirmed to take place in the parallel world (just compare timelines or characters present, plus films making references to other films). 2: I agree, the rest really don't need it done to them, just put Parallel world in the movie section. 3: This article says broly has the same scars in the new movie as he did in the old, which is wrong. He has scars in the new one and he didn't in the old movie.J spencer93 (talk) 23:50, July 16, 2018 (UTC)
How was that decided? everyone here said to seperate them? NVM...read your talk page and see this is going to be a pointless debate. Another "what is say goes" user. J spencer93 (talk) 03:18, July 17, 2018 (UTC)
I did add a small disclaimer to atleast tell people from the beginning of the article it will be two sepereate brolys discussed here. Apologize if that isn't ok.J spencer93 (talk) 03:29, July 17, 2018 (UTC)
I agree with having one Broly page until we get confirmation from either Toei Animation themselves or another official source which explicitly states that the Broly from the DBZ movies is indeed from a parallel world, confirmation which we dont have. So far, only 3 Dragon Ball movies are confirmed by official sources to take place in a parallel dimension; Dragon Ball: Curse of the Blood Rubies, Dragon Ball: Mystical Adventure and Dragon Ball Z: Super Android 13. None of the DBZ Broly movies, or any other Dragon Ball movie for that matter, are confirmed by official sources to take place in a parallel world, despite their inconsistancies in relation to the manga and anime. Faiquan (talk) 17:26, July 17, 2018 (UTC)
So the simple fact that Lord SLugs movie can't possibly take place at all considering who is alive in it doesn't automatically make it a seperate world???? Thats some uh....strange thinking to say the least. Actually same for the Turles movie....half those in it should be dead but are not. And wheelo. Actually any movie he uses kaioken in. Also, why delete my comment about the old Broly and new Broly being seperate people...they are seprerate. That is confirmed. Could atleast make a mention of it on the page not to confuse readers. Seems this site is becoming more an an elitist posting forum instead of actually putting the info given to us on it. J spencer93 (talk) 18:34, July 17, 2018 (UTC)
Daizenshuu 6 actually says the first three DB films and the first thirteen DBZ films occur in a parallel world, not just Blood Rubies, Mystical Adventure and Android 13. --Neffyarious (talk) 19:27, July 17, 2018 (UTC)
- Well, at the very least, those three movies were the only ones actually LISTED explicitly under Parallel World in the Daizenshuu (Toriyama seemed to be more general in his description there). I'm pretty sure they would have specifically detailed all of them and NOT just those three movies if they wanted the teeth to back it up. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 19:46, July 17, 2018 (UTC)
I did say "despite the inconsistancies" the movies may have, as there are many as you pointed out. I listed the movies confirmed to take place in the parallel world. I havent read the Daizenshu 6 myself regarding the 1st 13 DBZ movies being in a parallel world as well, so my list may certainly be incomplete.
Many of the Dragon Ball movies are filled with inconsistancies, and this wiki does a good job pointing them out. In fact, I believe one of the only original 13 movies that fits perfectly with the main storyline is movie 5, Cooler's Revenge. But back to the topic, there should be only one Broly page until further information is established. All the "Parallel Broly" redirects were a bit annoying, and it's safe to say that nobody actually calls him "Parallel Broly". We know him as Broly.Faiquan (talk) 21:32, July 17, 2018 (UTC)
That doesn't really make much sense. They both have the same name, and one is based off the other but they are not the same being. A simple, and honestly the most obvious answer that even bypasses your reason not to do it, would be just to create a new page named Broly (2018 or Super or whater) and put any info concerning him there. Just because they have the same name doesn't mean they should be on the same page. That avoids all redirects and any issues coming from them. And simply make a link here leading to the other character in the trivia to help avoid the confusion of them being 1 and the same. Its simple, efficient, and the most factual way to handle it. This even avoids the whole parallel world annoyance. Side note, http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/daizenshuu-6-akira-toriyama-super-interview/ This site has them all translated, i am not sure of their accuracy but they seem to match the general tone of most sites i am finding. 6 says the movies are all different dimension stories. J spencer93 (talk) 21:38, July 17, 2018 (UTC)
So with the new trailer, shouldn't this definitively be in a state to be spun off? The two Brolys are completely unrelated aside from the new one being loosely based on the old one. Jeov (talk) 22:34, July 19, 2018 (UTC)
Ask DragonEmperor. He may give you a reason...although he hasn't yet. I already added that info once, when Akira Toriyama said it. Yet they removed it from this page. J spencer93 (talk) 16:55, July 20, 2018 (UTC)
Stronger then SS2 Gohan
I removed this bit of Speculation (it literally even said it was such) as it isn't really relevant or even supported by the film. Gohan couldn't even use the form at that time (only hinting at it in the time chamber). J spencer93 (talk) 17:07, July 20, 2018 (UTC)
- He could use it, though (otherwise, he would NOT have transformed while inside the chamber at all). Let's not forget that him transforming into the form acted as the reason why Goku even was willing to have Gohan act as the next in line to fight Cell, most likely risking the death of his only son for the possibility of him being the one to beat Cell. And use common sense, knowing all of that, why would Goku, who actually WAS willing to risk getting Gohan potentially killed by Cell just for the chance at Gohan actually beating Cell, tell Gohan to flee if his Super Saiyan 2 form was stronger than Broly? Sure, Gohan might not know of the form at the time, but Goku did know (hence why he chose Gohan to act as his successor). There's literally no other explanation for this (especially when Toei has already spoiled future plot developments in their movies anyway: Dende being the Guardian of the Earth in Return of Cooler says hello.). Weedle McHairybug (talk) 17:23, July 20, 2018 (UTC)
Your reaching a little. Your putting your own opinions in where fact should only be used. We are a wiki, we don't put "speculation" or opinions into the articles. And no, Goku may not have know. Your forgetting the movies all take place in another dimension (Daizenshuu 6 says so according to Kaizenshuu). Also, your automatically assuming Toei knew of the Gohan going ss2 off screen in the chamber when it wasn't revealed yet. They don't learn everything ahead of time. J spencer93 (talk) 17:37, July 20, 2018 (UTC)
- The film was stated in the Japanese version to take place during the 10 day wait. Even regarding alternate dimensions, it's extremely unlikely they'd ignore that bit (don't forget, Super Android 13 also took place in an alternate dimension, yet they literally reused the death Android 17 and 18 gave Dr. Gero in the series). And as far as your other point, if they could know about Dende being the new Guardian of the Earth several months before the manga chapter that revealed it was released or, heck, was even an idea for that matter when they did Return of Cooler (and let's face it, they HAD to know in order for Dende to even BE in the position in the film at all), they most certainly can know about Gohan having the form before its formal debut. And it's not even opinion, either. It's called logic and what's shown in the films and chronology. As a matter of fact, not only did that movie get released seven months before that manga chapter was announced, but it was specifically released just after the release of the manga chapter Cell's Last Laugh, which was after Piccolo and Kami fused back together, which meant that at the time the movie was released, people had just recently been aware of Kami no longer being Guardian and thus the deactivation of the Dragon Balls, which meant that Dende being revealed as the new Guardian of the Earth if anything outright spoiled the fact that the Dragon Balls would be back. And it's not even opinion, either. It's called logic and what's shown in the films and chronology, which IS allowed on the wiki. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 17:49, July 20, 2018 (UTC)
I never said they didn't know about Dende....read. I said they don't get to know everything ahead of time. And No, i literally can't find anywhere that says it was during the 10 day wait (which would automatically put it in a different time line, as they did nothing in the manga for 10 days). Your forcing your own way of events onto an area that is left unknown. Btw, the Daizenshuu says that are all in different dimensions. So it really doesn't matter when you think it took place. We simply don't know if that gohan had the capability or not (more likely, the creators didn't know about it at the time).J spencer93 (talk) 17:59, July 20, 2018 (UTC)
- I'm pretty sure TV.com indicated that the Japanese version DID say it took place during the 10 Day Wait. I certainly know that the story start for Budokai Tenkaichi 3 certainly pinned it during that time. As far as Dende, here's the problem, when they knew about Dende being Guardian of the Earth well before it was even established (and in fact, at the time the film was released, they literally just got rid of the Dragon Balls' functionality thanks to Piccolo and Kami fusing back together), it's pretty clear they HAD to know quite a bit of stuff ahead of time. It's either they knew ALL things ahead of time, or they didn't know anything at all. Since they knew about Dende, they certainly had to know about the other stuff (and quite frankly, Dende even being Guardian of the Earth would be a far bigger spoiler than Gohan getting a new Super Saiyan form, especially considering that they looked like they were going to go through with no more Dragon Balls.). And for the record, do you REALLY think they wouldn't know about Gohan being SSJ2? For goodness sakes, the anime filler, which ALSO was made by Toei, constantly foreshadowed Gohan's powers to such an extent that they seemed to be practically hinting that Gohan was going to take down Cell (especially when Goku already made it clear that Cell would "lick [Goku]" if they ever fought and had a plan to beat him regardless). That seems to point at them knowing about Gohan beating Cell and his SSJ2 form. And like I said, different dimensions or not, I'm doubtful especially given the established setting of the film and how they literally reused Android 17 and 18's method of killing Gero in the opening for Super Android 13 that they'd deviate from the timeline THAT much (it's not like Mystical Adventure or Curse of the Blood Rubies, where they actually DO end up having quite a few plot differences from the anime). And BTW, I did read it, and logic dictates that, if it's not A, it's B. If they knew about Dende, they definitely had to know about the others. It makes no sense for them to know about Dende and not SSJ2 Gohan. If I were Toei, and I knew about Dende, I definitely would have known about SSJ2 Gohan as well. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 18:11, July 20, 2018 (UTC)
- Regardless Super Saiyan Gohan was stronger than Perfect Cell anyways, and Goku knew about the SS2 form and still told Gohan to leave meaning SS2 Gohan would have died against LSS Broly. If you look at the chapter release date and the movie release date you will see they knew about SS2 Gohan regardless, as Toriyama was fully aware of and even drew art and gave ideas for the movie. FlatZone (talk) 19:59, July 20, 2018 (UTC)
Weedle....knowing A in once cause doesn't mean you automatically know everything in the future. Geez. Also, SS Gohan was not stronger then perfect cell, thats flat out wrong but moving on. As stated before you both are saying Goku knew because he think he knew. IT ISN"T STATED OR EVEN HINTED HE KNEW IN THE MOVIE. You have to use the facts given. And your both ignoring the fact that it contradicts the manga (so stop using it to try and support this movie) and that its a different dimension. Jesus. Actually if you watch Broly's second movie, it further supports that fact Gohan didn't have that form. Just to have a little fun with this. What filler episode hinted at the ss2 form? Please enlighten me. Also what does 13's movie have to do with this? Your also wrong about that, and may want to go rewatch it lol Gero wasn't killed in the same way. Its obvious when the people "who watched it" haven't. J spencer93 (talk) 00:34, July 21, 2018 (UTC)
- It actually does, since it's pretty clear that the reason they had to know about Dende was because Toriyama told them (I definitely doubt I could have predicted them even replacing Kami to restore the Dragon Balls, let alone doing so with Dende had I watched it from start to finish. By contrast, it actually was very predictable especially with Anime filler and Goku's remark that Cell would easily beat him and came up with a plan regardless that Gohan was going to fight and ultimately beat Cell with his powers, maybe even get a new Super Saiyan form that surpassed the old one since they hinted at it throughout the entire saga. In fact, Dende being the new guardian would be something they SHOULDN'T reveal ESPECIALLY if they knew precisely because it's that big of a spoiler to the future plot, destroys a lot of the suspense of how the Z-Fighters are going to handle Cell and stop him from murdering more people and succeeding in absorbing the androids when we know they'll just undo everything by getting the Dragon Balls back.). Also, I never said SS Gohan beating Cell, I said SS2 Gohan beating Cell (and yes, SS2 Gohan most certainly WAS stronger than Perfect Cell. Heck, had he not gotten cocky and vindictive and thus wasted time, he would have gotten Cell beaten much sooner after transforming, and without having an injured arm in the process). And Goku DID know, or have you forgotten about not only the flashback in Cell's Breakdown where he made clear he knew about the form, but also gave several unsubtle clues especially after calling Gohan to take over the match that he knew more about Gohan's abilities than he was letting on?
- Actually, there's little to suggest that the movie contradicts the manga all that much barring maybe Goku and Gohan being in base form rather than their FPSSJ forms (and even that can easily be explained away with Chi-Chi most likely forcing at least Goku to not adopt the form while doing the PTA thing at the beginning of the film), and besides, even the manga contradicted itself at times due to Toriyama being notoriously forgetful about his plot (let's not forget that Cell when returning stated in the manga and Japanese anime that he survived and regenerated from his self-destruction due to his head surviving the explosion, when earlier he regenerated from Goku's Warp Kamehameha despite the entire upper half of his body, head included, being blown up, and that was noted on TV.com's coverage of Cell Returns). Also, technically, the only ones actually confirmed to be in Parallel World [ie, being meticulously footnoted to be in that] were Curse of the Blood Rubies, Mystical Adventure, and Super Android 13. None of the other movies were mentioned on there beyond a general comment by Akira Toriyama. And I WATCHED Broly's movie multiple times (heck, I've watched all THREE Broly movies, even owning Broly Triple Threat), and there's literally nothing to suggest Gohan didn't have that form, or especially that Goku didn't know the form.
- As far as what filler episode hinted at his SSJ2 form, gee, how about the birthday episode Gohan had, where they had a flashback to when Gohan nearly collided with a tree and ended up plowing a hole through it? Or how about Goku making clear after meeting with Cell that he got a gauge toward Cell's power compared to himself and made clear the latter would effortlessly beat him regardless of what he did, while making clear he still had a plan to beat him. I think they focused a bit on Gohan during that time as well. And yes, actually, Dr. Gero WAS killed the exact same way in 13 as in the anime, especially when the method he was killed involved 17 using his Endgame move on him, impaling him from the back, doing a roundhouse kick to decapitate Gero, and then stomping on his head like a bug, eve had the same framing shots. Probably the only real difference between the anime and the film was Gero's dialogue during that time (which if anything was closer in translation to the Japanese version). And yes, actually, I've watched Super Android 13, multiple times on YouTube in fact. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 00:55, July 21, 2018 (UTC)
"Gohan's potential is greater than his father's and his power surpassed Perfect Cell's when he fought in the Cell Games, but his gentle heart stopped him from fully using it. " Go to Gohans page and check the reference, it is referring to SS Gohan vs Perfect Cell, not SS2 Gohan vs Super Perfect Cell. If you don't know what you are talking about then don't comment until you do @JsFlatZone (talk) 02:06, July 21, 2018 (UTC)
That literally changes nothing said @FlatZone. But nice getting offended. So lets move back to his death. The same frame's are not used. Again. If your going to try and use something as proof, atleast get it right. The scene is from a different angel, how 17 acts and what he does is different after beheading him, who is present is different, etc. Also, what part of this are you missing Weedle? Just because they knew about Dende doesn't mean they knew about SS2. Your reaching. Their is 0 proof they knew about it and no one even mentions it in the film (prob for plot reasons. They did prob know but choose not to reveal it to not ruin plot). Anyways, the "filler" you mentioned at no way hints at ss2. Blowing a hole in a tree is somehow a reference to ss2? Ok. I mean thats some high powered shit right there, good thing no one else ever did that or they prob have ss2.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuZAjGDUvc4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItxWXJMdgt0&t=40s Btw, there is a link to both of Gero's deaths. Its amazing how different they are beyond 17 impales him and kicks his head off. However, we should prob discuss that on the Gero page and not here. My only point is, since it wasn't reference in the film, or know if Toei knew about SS2 at that point. Don't put it in the article as that is speculation. A mention in the trivia would do nicely i believe. J spencer93 (talk) 20:13, July 21, 2018 (UTC)