information Sources Needed!Edit
There are too many mere guesses and misunderstandings mentioned here.
For example, this article says Nappa is a Chinese term for greens in general, particular "cabbage". But it actually is a Japanese word and does not mean cabbage. Nappa is something like this.
As for Goten, it says Ten is Chinese for "sky" but also means heaven/afterlife in Japanese. But this is not true either. Ten is the Japanese pronunciation for the Chinese character 天 and it means "sky" and "heaven" both in Chinese and Japanese.
It says Chichi is Japanese for "milk" and "my father". Also a Japanese slang term for "breasts". But it is not exact. Akira Toriyama named her Chichi, meaning milk, because his father is the Ox king. "My father" does not have anything to do with her name". It is not true that chichi is a Japanese slang term for "breasts". It is no slang but actually a general term. Chichi means both milk and breasts because milk comes out from breasts.
The article says that Mercenary Tao was named after the Vietnamese word for apple. But it is not true either. Why Vietnamese, although no other pun is from Vietnamese? The chinese character for Tao (桃) means peach, not apple. Akira Toriyama says he named him Tao Paipai (桃白白) because he wanted his name to sound cute although he was scary. Tao has nothing to do with apple.
I corrected these misunderstandings and mere guesses and added the source. However, although I don't know why, it is reverted. I believe every single piece of information I added should be kept because they are all sourced and those un sourced mere guesses should be removed.--大空翼 06:11, August 30, 2010 (UTC)
- Good catch on the Nappa and Tao mistranslations, you should go ahead and correct those if you are sure. However, your Goten and Chi-Chi comments don't really make sense to me, so I would leave those alone, and possibly discuss them further to clarify what you mean. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 21:08, August 30, 2010 (UTC)
Excuse me but don't you think your argument is a little bit self-righteous? Why do you keep reverting although I have added sources. Do you say you cannot trust Akira Toriyama? The origin of both Chichi and Goten are mentioned by Akira Toriyama himself. There is no reason to revert my edit.
As for Goten, Akira Toriyama says:
((Go(悟) in Goku means to realize or to sense. Ku(空) in Goku means Sky.) I named him Goten because Ten(天) in Goten means sky but even bigger than Ku.)
As for Chichi,
(Since she is a daughter of the Ox King, I wanted to give her a girlish name related to cows or oxes. So I neamed her Chichi. (The kanji (Chinese character) for Chichi means both milk and breasts. I have to note you that Chichi is no slang term.))
I don't understand why you want to revert my edits although they are sourced. I want you to stop reverting my edits that are sourced and stop trying to keep mere guesses without sources.--大空翼 03:03, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
- Please stick to the quote and do not add in your own comments afterward, they have no relevance. I am reverting your edits because if even one thing is wrong, then, as a moderator of the site, I must revert it. When you make 4 edits in a row, and the first one is bad, then I have to revert them all to bring the article back to the point of before the mistake. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 04:01, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
Why did you revert my edit only because you don't like it although it is sourced? What do you think you are doing? Do you think everything you say and you do is right? You have never showed me any source.
What mistake have I made? I quoted an official source. What do you think is wrong? Tell me! I don't want to say but talking with you is really irritating because the argument is not logical at all. You say you are right although you have no official information sources. You say I am wrong althogh I have official information sources. What do you want to do? What do you need?--大空翼 08:06, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
- Your edits to the name origins of Vegeta, Goten, Pan, Krillin, Shu, the Flying Nimbus, and Mr. Popo were incorrect, opinions, or poor re-writes. The other edits were fine, and would not be reverted by me if posted without the ones I've mentioned. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 19:56, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
>>Your edits to the name origins of Vegeta, Goten, Pan, Krillin, Shu, the Flying Nimbus, and Mr. Popo were incorrect, opinions, or poor re-writes.
On what ground do you say so? Your argument has never been logical, I have to say. Every single edit I have made is correct because I quoted offical comments by the author. Do you say you cannot trust the author? What right do you have to judge what is right and what is wrong? Why do you act as if you knew what is right and wrong although you don't?
As for Vegeta, the article says "The first six letters of "vegetable"." But this is not correct because the Japanese language do not use Roman alphabets and his name is written as "ベジータ" in Japanese. The spelling "Vegeta" was made by the translater, not by the author, since the Japanese language do not have the sound of "v". "ベジータ" is pronounced "Bejiita". For example, a guide book of Dragonball named Dragonball Landmark", which was published in Japan in 2003, adopts the spelling "Begeta". So, his name "ベジータ" is not the first six letters of vegetable, but is short for vegetable.
As for Goten, I do not understand why you say it was incorrect. I quoted the official comment by the author.
Ten is not Chinese althogh it is from Chinese. Chinese pronunciation for the character, 天, is Tian. Ten is the Japanese pronunciation for it. "Ten is Chinese for "sky" but also means heaven/afterlife in Japanese" <- So this is not true. It should be like "Ten means "sky", "heaven", "afterlife" in Japanese".
As for Pan, I don't understand AT ALL why you say it was incorrect. I also quoted the official comment by the author.
(Well, I named her Pan (bread) simply because she is a child of Gohan (rice)).
What do you need more? It is not a triple pun. Pan of Greek mythology or the Pan Flute has nothing to do with her name. What are you gonna say more? Is her name a pun on Frying Pan? Is it a pun on Panties? Please stop! Her name is a pun on bread. The author says he named her "SIMPLY" because she is a child of Gohan.
As for Krillin, I mentioned it in its talk page. I do not understand at all why you do not believe the authors comment and why you can make such a interpretation.
As for Shu, he becomes Shumai (a traditional Chinese dumpling served in dim sum) when combined with Mai, his partner. The author says so  . What is wrong here?
As for the Flying Nimbus, the existing sentence is completely wrong. " In Japanese, literally meaning "candy cloud", kinto meaning "candy" and noun meaning "cloud"." No way! There's no Japanese word "kinto" meaning candy. I don't know why the first writer said such a thing. You cannot find such a word in any Japanese dictionaries. Every single Japanese and Chinese person knows about the cloud named Kinto-un in the Journey to the West, which Dragon Ball is loosely base on.  Candy has absolytely nothing to do with it. No such a Japanese word exist. It may be not well-known in the West, but in Japan and China, even small child knows about the cloud in the Journey to the West.
As for Mr. Popo, once again I do not understand on what ground you deny my edit AT ALL although I simply quoted the comment by the author, Akira Toriyama.
( I think I named him so because it sounds nice. )
"Possibly a play off the chinese dish, "puu puu""?? It says "possibly" and it is actually not correct. It is only a mere guess by the editor. It is not worth mentioning here but the authors comment is.
I have to say this once again. Why do you revert my edits although I simply quoted from the author's comments? Why do you try to protect those mere guesses made by anon editors?--大空翼 07:19, September 1, 2010 (UTC)
- It's because very tedious to reason with you, as you ignore my statements altogether. Please seek a consensus for the edits you wish to make. The consensus of the community is the ultimate rule of law here, so you'll need to use it. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 21:04, September 1, 2010 (UTC)
Please do not say I ignore your statement altogether. I haven't changed "Pan" and "Krillin" yet although I really want to change it. You didn't say my edits on Nappa, Chichi, Korin, Tao, Pui Pui and Pilaf were wrong. That's why I edited them.
As for the Flying Nimbus, the former statement was completely wrong no matter what you say. If you consult a Japanese-English dictionary, you cannot find any "Kinto" meaning candy. I had to change such a strange statement.
As for Shu, I changed it in accordance with Mai. "Mai" states "Part of 'shumai'". That's why I changed the statement on Shu into "Part of 'shumai'" from "Short for 'shumai'". Why is it wrong although Mai is "Part of 'shumai'"? Mai is "Part of shumai", so I states Shu is "Part of shumai". Very very reasonable, isn't it? I only wanted to uniform the two statements.
As for Goten, I only changed "Chinese" into "Japanese" because "Ten" is the Japanese pronunciation without doubt.
I don't want you to say I ignored your statement because of those edits. What is wrong about my edits above? Did I ignore you?
I have to say it is really tedious to talk with you, too. "Consensus" you say doesn't mean consensus. It means "Your permission". I don't know why you talk as if you had the rights to decide what is right and what is wrong.
It is you who ignored my statements. What do you say about Vegeta, Pan, Krillin, the Flying Nimbus, and Mr. Popo? You haven't say anything about my statements above yet. I would like you to accept my statement about Pan, at least. I have no idea at all how the first writer got the idea about Pan of Greek mythology or the Pan Flute. That sounds really silly to me and the author says her name comes only from bread. I actually do not understand why I need your permission to remove that silly information but I would really like you to understand my statements.--大空翼 12:14, September 2, 2010 (UTC)
- The ones there now are fine, I'll usually say something if I feel otherwise. The way we deal with disputes here is that when any two editors disagree with how an article is written, the article is to be left as it was before the change, and help from a moderator should be sought. (In this case, I'm already involved.) If the dispute still stands, other editors monitoring the talk page should start to voice their own opinions. (Unfortunately, this hasn't really happened this time.) The very last, but most meaningful thing that can be done is to have an actual vote on the talk page. Until one of these things resolves the issue, the article is to remain as it was before the change. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 15:49, September 2, 2010 (UTC)
DO you mean my edits on Vegeta, Pan, Krillin, the Flying Nimbus and Mr. Popo are OK too? If so, I'll change them right away. I really do not understand why you do not believe the author...--大空翼 15:34, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
Then what do you mean? You haven't told me what is wrong about my edits.--大空翼 17:07, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
I'm the one who made the original Pan edit. Even if Akira didn't intend it that doesn't make the other meanings any less true. Maslego 16:25, September 2, 2010 (UTC)
- Yes, it does. Sorry but I am afraid that your explanation does not make any sense at all.
- The is the article about the "ORIGINS" of character names. Even if her name sounds like the God from Greek mythology or the musical instrument, tehy are only your mere guesses and have nothing to do with the origin of her name. The only origin the author intended was "bread" only. That's the only origin her name has.
- If your guesses were to be allowed to remain here, this website would be really a mess (Actually, it is a chaos already...). I'd say Pan's name is from "pan cake". It is also from 飯, a Chinese character meaning meals, which is pronounced "Han" or "Pan" (This Chinese character is also used for Gohan (悟飯)). I'd say it is also from "pants". In Japanese, "pants" or "panties" is sometimes abbreviated to "pan". "短パン" (short pants) is an example. If you insist to something religious like Greek mythology, I'd say her name is also from Pan Gu, a Chinese god who created this world. Her name may be from "pun" because the author uses many puns when he make up names. So, her name would be... bread, Greek mythology, Pan flute, pan cake, 飯, pants, Pan Gu, pun... a octuple pun! Wow!
- Can you see now? You can make up anything if you try to. The idea that Pan's name is from Pan of Greek mythology and Pan flute is completely your guess and is not worth mentioning here. Do not make up anything and please just write the truth. Guesses are not worth mentioning because you can say anything whether or not it is true or not. The only origin Pan has is bread!
- (I have to say it is also wrong that her name is from the Spanish word. The Japanese word "pan" is from the Portugese word "pão". So you should have referred to not the Spanish word, but the Portugese word.)--大空翼 09:21, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
I have no idea why you are getting so worked up over a piece of trivia on one web site. I've already told you the only way it's going to change. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 16:31, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
- I've been trying to reach a consensus, showing my idea and Mr. Toriyama's idea and comments.
- I know I am right because I quote the author's comments and because Mr. Toriyama and I share the same Japanese common sense and because I can speak, read, write Japanese and have been a Dragon Ball fan more than 20 years. My knowledge of Dragonball, the Japanese language and the Japanese common sense clearly deny those guesses made up by editors here. I am really irritated by those guesses being mentioned as if they were true although the editors has no idea of what they are writing.
- They make me feel as though the Japanese language is fooled. To say Genki Dama is a pun on Denki Gama sounds really stupid and irritating to me and I feel like not only the Japanese language but also the author, Akira Toriyama, is fooled. He would never make such a boring, stupid pun. Anyone who has enough knowledge of Japan, Japanese and Dragon Ball would feel the same way as I do. My knowlege of Dragon Ball cannot allow those lies to spread any more.
- I have no idea why you guys try to keep those mere guesses that has no information sources. If you had enough knowledge of Dragon Ball and the Japanese language, you wouldn't have such ideas. This websites has too many mistakes, especially when the Japanese language is involved. For example, I have no idea why "Nappa" was referred to as a Chinese word. Why can "Kinto-un" be a candy cloud although no Japanese dictionary says kinto means candy? Why can Tao be an apple?
- I don't know where you are from, but imagine how you would feel if your country or something you think is really important was wrongly explained on some websites like this one. For example, a British Beatles fan would be mad if the Beatles were referred to as an American band. How would he feel when he trys to correct the clearly wrong information but someone comes out and insists that the Beatles are American? That's how I feel now.
- If you say it is just a piece of trivia, I hope that you will allow me to edit the pages. As I have said many many times, no one who has enough knowledge of Japanese will never deny my edits.
- Pan has nothing to do with Greek mythology or Pan flute. The reference to them sounds as clearly wrong as to mention the Beatles as American.--大空翼 17:07, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
- You asked me why I was getting so worked up over a piece of trivia on one web site. What do you mean "doesn't matter"?
- I've been trying to reach a consensus but you don't. You just say my edits are wrong but you haven't said why. It is you who have to try to reach a consensus. You just say my edits are wrong and leave. I cannot say it is a responsible act. How can you support such a strange idea that Pan is a triple pun, although the author clearly says that her name is fron ONLY bread? I don't understand why you say my edits are incorrect althogh I've been only trying to write the authors comment and remove those mere guesses made up by this website's editors.--大空翼 15:19, September 4, 2010 (UTC)
Evidence: Pan is the name of a Greek God, and Greek mythology is very prominent. And stop twisting around quotes, you did the same thing with Toriyama's quick comment about Krillin's name. By the way, as I explicitly stated in an earlier conversation, a consensus is only needed to make a disputed change, not to leave the pages as is. It would be chaos to let anyone change whatever they wanted until the community voted otherwise. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 18:26, September 4, 2010 (UTC)
- WHAT?! Your login really is a chaos, a sophism. Always it is.
- Pan of Greek mythology may be prominent, although it is not prominent at all in Japan. But it is NO evidence at all.
- As I said, if it were OK, her name would be a pun on "pan cake", which is far much prominent than Pan of Greek.
- It would also be a pun on Pan Gu, who is far more prominent than Pan in China.
- It would also mean 飯 (pronounced pan), which means meal.
- Frying pan would be another origin of her name.
- Her name might be also from Mount Pan in China because Dragon Ball was originally based on a Chinese novel.
- Maybe Peter Pan, who is far much more prominent than Pan of Greek mythology in Japan (most Japanese knows about Peter Pan, while most Japanese have never even heard of Pan of Greek mythology), because she is a child.
- Her name may be from Pan pive, a Criatuab lager beer.
- It would be also from "sliced pan", a kind of bread popular in Ireland.
- Are you gonna mention them all? They are all prominent. In Japan, many of them are far much more prominent the Pan of Greek mythology. If Pan of Greek mythology were to be mentioned in the article only because she is prominent, I would add all the Pans I mentioned above.
- Being famous means nothing at all. The author says he named her Pan (bread) ONLY BECAUSE she is the daughter of Gohan (rice). But you say her name is also from Pan of Greek mythology ONLY BECAUSE SHE IS FAMOUS". Do you really think it can be evidence? If so, I have to say your logic is really really a chaos. I have to say it is one of the worst logics I've ever seen.
- Famous? Promonent? So what? What does that mean? The author says her name is ONLY from bread. You don't even understand the meaning of "ONLY"? If her name were from Greek mythology, Akira Toriyama would have said so.
- As for Krillin, it is also impossible to say his name is from chest nuts and shaoling. As I said many many times, if it were, why didn't Toriyama mention it? Your logic is like this. "He didn't say Krillin's name is not from chest nuts." -> "It is from chest nuts". What a chaos it is. The author said his name is "ONLY FROM" his 雰囲気, which means his atmosphere, mood, looks, ambience, image... or something like that. NOT FROM CHEST NUTS. The reference to chest nuts and shaoling was made up by a fan who doesn't know the author's comment. How can you trust it although you do not trust the author?
- It is you who did the same thing with Krillin's name. You just want to believe what you want to. What is true doesn't mean anything to you and editors here. You don't believe the author's comment just because you don't like it.
- If Pan of Greek mythology were to remain here, I must say this website is really a chaos thanks to editors who state their mere guesses as if they were true. Full of lies made up by fans without enough knowledge of Dragon Ball or Japanese. The truth doesn't mean anything here. Pan of Greek? Chest nuts and shaoling? Chinese cuisine puu puu? You just believe what you want to believe and you do not believe even the author's comments if you don't like them. What a chaos it is.
- Whatever you say, Pan of Greek mythology has NOTHING AT ALL to do with Pan. Krillin's name is not from chestnuts or shaolin. Po Po's name is not from puupuu. They are all made up by fans. None of them is worth mentioning. (It's really irritating to talk with who believe what they wants to. To them, "evidence" means "I think so". They think whatever they think is true and that their ideas can be evidence even if there is ecidence that denies their ideas).
- Do not say "Pan is from Pan of Greek BECAUSE SHE IS PROMINENT". That is NO EVIDENCE AT ALL. That only means you think so. Guesses by fans are not worth mentioning at all while the comment by the author is worth mentioning. What are you gonna say next?--大空翼 03:16, September 5, 2010 (UTC)
- I don't think Pan of Greek mythology has anything to do with Pan's name. Since the author says it is only from "bread", it can be the only origin.
- I actually think 10xKamehameha's comment is really strange because the only evidence s/he has is the fact that Pan of Greek mythology is prominent. That is too weak evidence. 10xKamahameha's last comment doesn't seem good either because s/he just ignored the other's argument. S/he repeatedly says "consensus" but s/he doesn't even seem to try to talk.
- As long as both of you do not try to reach a consensus, to write both ideas would be the only way to solve this problem.--184.108.40.206 06:52, September 6, 2010 (UTC)
If we just put everyone's ideas about everything, the pages would all be filled with nonsense. The policy is to keep the pages how they are currently in the case of a dispute, and to only change them if a consensus is reached. That is just how it is. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 07:04, September 6, 2010 (UTC)
- Then let's erace the reference to the Greek mythology. The author clearly states he named her Pan (bread) only because she is the daughter of Gohan (rice). That means Pan of the Greek mythology has nothing to do with her name. Why do you allow the pages to be filled with such nonsense as Pan of Greek mythology? You don't have to put everyone's ideas. All you have to do is to mention the author's comment and remove other ideas made up by fans.--220.127.116.11 00:05, September 7, 2010 (UTC)
I added the information about the author's comment on Krillin and Pan. Do not even try to block me. I simply added the author's comment and have not removed the groundless rumours. Adding the author's comment should not be regarded against "consensus" or anything.--18.104.22.168 00:17, September 7, 2010 (UTC)
- Adding quotes is fine, removing existing content without consensus is not. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 00:23, September 7, 2010 (UTC)
I am back. You told me two lies, I'm afraid.
First, you said you had warned me several times before you blocked me. But actually you gave me only one warning.
As for you, you removed the author's comment without any reason  just because you don't lijke it. I call your deed vandalism. You blocked me saying I had removed exsisting content although I didn't. And you removed author's comment although it is well-sourced just because you don't like it. I don't find my edits wrong at all while your edits are to selfish.
As for Krillin's name, the author's comment must be added because he has never said that Krillin's name came from "kuri" and "shaolin". It is misleading to asserting that Krillin's name comes from kuri and shaolin as if it is determined althogh there is no proof. You have to add author's comments and the fact that the theory about "kuri" and "shaolin" is made up by some fans and that the author has never said so.--22.214.171.124 02:43, October 9, 2010 (UTC)
- Just re-read the convo, facts are facts and it's not changing. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 04:17, October 9, 2010 (UTC)
10xKamahameha removed the author's comment which is sourced. He says the edit "should have been reverted, according to talk page", but what does he mean by "according to talk page"? It seems to me nothing has been decided there.
He tries to remove the author's comment which is perfectly sourced and to keep the completely groundless information about Greek mythology. This cannot be accepted.--Lupinthe3rd 19:41, October 18, 2010 (UTC)
- You are lying, I did not remove the author's comment about Pan's name, which is that it means bread in some languages. If you would like a reference to the literature, then add a reference separately using the reference function. -- .10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 23:48, October 18, 2010 (UTC)
Well, Pan is a name of greek mythology, which hails from Videl's side of the family. Pan means bread in some languages, so that's from Gohan's side of the family. However, there is also the Pan Flute, whch might hail from piccolo's name heritage. Just wanted to throw my opinion out there. Jimmykiller9talkcontrib 03:13, June 28, 2011 (UTC)
- That's a good explanation. -- 10X Ka.me.ha.me.ha ..... talk ..... contrib. 03:57, June 28, 2011 (UTC)
10xKamehameha try to remove the author's well-sourced comment here too, though he is sticking to the idea that Krillin's name comes from Kuri and Shaolin, which has no information source. I cannot accept his arbitrary decision. The sourced author's comment should be kept and the groundless information should be removed.--Lupinthe3rd 19:41, October 18, 2010 (UTC)
- Why don't you look at the last comment located within this topic. The comment was mis-translated the first time by someone who was either a liar or does not know Japanese. If you consider the actual translation, the name origin is quite obvious. -- .10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 23:54, October 18, 2010 (UTC)
Trunks/Future Trunks Edit
Are you guys sure Trunks and Future Trunks should be mentioned separately when it's exactly the same name? - User:Kill You/sig 18:54, April 27, 2011 (UTC)
- Fixed. Jeangabin666 19:04, April 27, 2011 (UTC)
I think that on japanise goten means court or palace '御殿' .. Fully name "GOTEN" not just "ten" means court/palace!.. —This unsigned comment was made by 126.96.36.199 (talk • contribs) Please sign your posts with ~~~~ next time!
What's going on here? Edit
So after browsing through this thread (mostly for entertainment.. internet fighting lol), I'm confused as to why Pan's name origin has not been updated. From what I understand, the main reason was a pun on the Japanese word for bread (not the Spanish word; Dragonball Z was written in Japanese). Therefore this should be listed first, since it has apparently been stated by Toriyama. Pan of Greek mythology is a huge stretch, because Videl's family is "Satan" themed, not "religion" themed. Pan flute and panties (homage to Piccolo and Bulma) also seems like a stretch. These are more likely coincidences. For accuracy's sake, Pan bread (the official origin) should be listed first, with language stating that Pan may also refer to the other meanings, making it clear that this has not been confirmed by official material.
And why is consensus required to make edits? What if the majority agreed that Super Perfect Cell is stronger than Kid Buu, does that make it so? No, because this is not supported by evidence from the franchise or associated official material. In the case of Pan, the moderator should make a judgement based on the evidence provided, and not just on people's opinions. Certainly though, Pan (bread) should be listed first on both the name origin's page and on Pan's page. Why am I even posting this? I hated Pan :\ Janemba4eva (talk) 02:34, October 16, 2012 (UTC)
What you did was add bias. You just said 2 are possible and the ones you like are facts. What's this about a Toriyama quote? The source would be good. -- .10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 03:54, October 16, 2012 (UTC)
- What I did was remove bias. Adding "may" indicates that they are speculation without official source - which is exactly what all of them are. Take a look at what you've reverted it to "However, closer inspection reveals a double-pun on behalf of author Akira Toriyama." This quote implies that Toriyama explicitly intended both the bread and Greek mythology pun. Show me an official statement from Toriyama saying this and I will submit. If no quote can be found, then it is inaccurate to include such a claim on Pan's page. It is best to leave the language general and neutral, which is what my edits included. Note that my edits did not imply that any of the puns (including the bread one, which is the most widely accepted from my experiences) were officially supported by Toriyama. My version was far less biased than the current one. On another note, when I see Satan and Devil as the only two options, I don't tend to think the broader category is "religious figures." I think most people would agree. Janemba4eva (talk) 04:16, October 16, 2012 (UTC)
Your version had far more bias than the section did before. The former version simply listed the puns. Your version picked your two favorites, left them as facts, and threw the other two away as merely possible. "I think most people would agree," you say. This is exactly what you need to get away from to remove the bias from your edit. Not only do you actually have no idea what most people think (which would be impossible in this case), but even if most people agreed it wouldn't matter, since neither your opinion nor the collective opinions of many people are grounds for encyclopedic material. Additionally, you have made a very hypocritical statement by pointing out that there is an unsourced claim by Toriyama. You said, "Therefore this should be listed first, since it has apparently been stated by Toriyama." You provided no source, and when I asked for one you completely ignored my request. In truth, both the current article and your own view are poorly conceived.
That having been said, you're right in saying that the current version could use a revision. When I see a bad edit, I revert it. If you want to do a rewrite without adding bias, that would be fine. If you are unsure of what counts as encyclopedic, feel free to run it by other users first. -- .10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 04:32, October 16, 2012 (UTC)
I was operating under the impression that the Toriyama quote had been sourced earlier in this thread, which looking back is incorrect. It has been mentioned, but not verified with a source. My mistake. I maintain that my version was less biased. The former version listed the puns as if they were official. Since there are many possible puns on "pan," it's impossible to say which ones were intended, as an official quote from AT may not even be available. So take my previous edit, add "may" to the bread pun as I did with the others, and it becomes completely neutral. As it is now, it makes it seem like all meanings are official, when any or all of them could be coincidence. The uncertainty should be expressed or else it's just inaccurate. My view is not poorly conceived, I simply failed to fact check the supposed Toriyama quote. But correct that one error, and it becomes a less biased and more streamlined version. The smart-mouthed tone of the last few sentences of my previous post was not present in my article edits. However, I do think some type of judgement call should play a role. The jump from rice to bread seems more direct and logical than the jump from Satan to Pan, Greek god of nature. Also, bread seems more likely as it is a pun on a Japanese word, as most of the other puns are. Janemba4eva (talk) 04:52, October 16, 2012 (UTC)
Here's the source previously mentioned in the thread. "まあこれは、単にご飯の子供ならパンかなと" First column, 10th row. Should probably be verified by a mod literate in Japanese to give it some context... but google translate mentions bread. Could be bs but better than nothing. Janemba4eva (talk) 05:24, October 16, 2012 (UTC)
I've redone the edits on both the name page and Pan page, placing the bread one first since it seems to have basis in Dragonball literature, whereas the other ones have none. The ambiguous language has been retained until the source can be verified by someone who can read Japanese. Note that this version is almost identical to my original one. I understand the policy of reverting entire edits even if they are slightly incorrect, but that begs the question of how the questionable information made it onto the page in the first place. Janemba4eva (talk) 16:03, October 16, 2012 (UTC)
- I like your new revision and I think it's a perfect way to keep things neutral and without bias. With that said, you should usually wait until things get resolved by a consensus on the talk page before redoing a reverted edit, even if you change it. The problem with making edits that are partially bad is that deciding whether the edit is more good than it is bad is very subjective, and whether you are removing more bad than good can be subjective too. The reason why there are bad pieces of text in the articles is that pages always start out lacking and bad. In the early stages (first year or so) of a wiki, users are encouraged to write as much as they can and include every possible detail regardless of redundancies, poor grammar, etc. Then other users go through over the years to refine the information and correct the errors. This is similar to taking a piece of marble and chiseling out a sculpture. Having early editors create massive quantities of perfectly written and phrased articles would be too hard for those individuals, who are more likely regular fans than professional authors. -- .10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 23:23, October 16, 2012 (UTC)
- Excellent. First wiki edit evar! Now I fully understand the purpose of the talk page. I can easily see how this escalated into edit rage the first time the issue was brought up. Janemba4eva (talk) 02:33, October 17, 2012 (UTC)
Pumpkins are fruits, not vegetables. So it's not entirely correct to say "All full-blooded Saiyans' names are puns on various vegetable names." 188.8.131.52 02:43, March 16, 2013 (UTC)