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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Super Saiyan Full Power article.
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Archive 1 November 13, 2008
Archive 2 March 16, 2011

Wording Change

The Perfect Warrior, if your interpretation of "all the time" is "most of the time," is all that you're looking for at this point a change of those three words? Because that's easy and I'm open to suggestions. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 01:20, March 16, 2011 (UTC)

1.) Goku spent an overwhelming majority of the frieza fight with the same light hair as fpssj goku in cell fight. I have 120 pics I can post right now if you want showing him light hair at every stage of the fight
2.) Goku and Veg both also spent an overwhelming majority with that color hair in the android 19 fight
3.) Cooler's revenge ssj Goku had the light hair also, same with metal cooler
4.) Vegeta has the same light colored hair vs android 18
5.) pictures of ssj3 gotenks with the light hair, assj vegeta and trunks with the light hair, and ssj2 teen gohan and maj veg with the light hair show every form shows the light hair. This brings reasonable doubt on the statement that fpssj is different because it implies Toriyama drew them that color the whole time
6.) Goku fpssj against cell was actually golden with an aura for longer than vegeta was as a normal ssj vs 19, goku as well.
7.) The daizenshuu says nothing about the hair color being any different. In fact, it says it's arguably not a real form, which implies no color difference, and talks about how little is said about it.
8.) Vegeta says goku and gohan appear ssj in the manga after they leave Rosat (the manga I supplied is not the official Viz translation, it can be found quoted on the daizenshuu fpssj page)
9.) Nobody mentions anything about different hair color in the anime, Piccolo says they're ssj, it's said they are ssj but it's become their normal state
10.) None of the other guides makes any claim that the hair color is lighter or any different in fpssj.
So the statement about the hair color being light, but when powered up returns to the glow seen all the time in ssj should be removed. Instead It should simply say that little is noted about the appearance, other than Vegeta saying it appears ssj. Even the comments that it appears more relaxed can be explained because in ssj they were only ssj while fighting, whereas in fpssj they were seen relaxing and enjoying themselves. The Perfect Warrior 10:45, March 20, 2011 (UTC)The Perfect Warrior, March 20, 2011

Please use semi-colons to separate you statements from other posters', like I've been doing. Now all those things you said were nice, but what exactly about the statement, "When relaxed, the user's hair appears more of a yellowish white, but when powered up, the golden glow seen all the time in the first transformation makes a return," do you feel may be untrue? You'll need to explain what you meant by the second thing you said as well. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 17:19, March 20, 2011 (UTC)

The statement implies that there is a difference in the appearance of fpssj and ssj. The golden glow seen all the time in the first transformation makes a return implies that ssj is golden all the time. While it is true that this statement could also mean that the golden glow is simply more often seen, it is implied that it is constant because on the ssj page the only color listed is the golden color. And to explain my statement that it means either or, the statement implies there is a difference by saying the fpssj appearance, and then making a distinction with the glow, saying it then has a feature attributed to ssj. This implies that it's similar to ssj with the glow, but not with the yellowish white. When we look at normal ssj fights, when they are sitting around calm, they have the light colored hair just like goku dude when calm as a fpssj. That's what my statement meant about Fpssj calmness. We attribute the light hair to them because only in this form did we see them not fighting as ssj, just relaxing and thinking about things, whereas in ssj we only saw them fighting, yet when there were breaks in fights or when they were toying or not at full power their hair often went to the light yellow. Which is why Vegeta against 19 was light the whole fight, but when he fought against 18 and was pushing himself to keep up he was golden most of the fight, yet when they had breaks and were standing on top of cars Vegeta's hair went light yellow again.
I think the statement either makes a distinction between the two, or is unclear in what it says and can be taken to mean many things. I think it would be better to replace the entire statement with a quote about what Vegeta said in the manga, that they appear ssj, or to simply remove the statement from the article. Either way, the ssj page should have the light hair color added to it's colors to make it more accurate. The Perfect Warrior 19:30, March 20, 2011 (UTC)The Perfect Warrior, March 20, 2011

Did you see what I mean about the colons? Check out the revision differences and see where I removed them from your statement just now. It's not crucial, but it's how some text appears indented, whereas other text is totally left aligned, making it easier to tell who says what.

While I disagree with how you have interpreted "all the time" in the context, I do agree that that phrase could be replaced without losing the meaning in the way that it's often interpreted in American English, which is as "a lot." I worry about the Vegeta quote regardless of how it's interpreted or discrepancies between versions we've produced, because like you said, that's when they're calm, whereas the focus of the statement in the article is to talk about the change in appearance as they power up. I suggest that we could disambiguate the meaning of the statement for the readers by either removing "all the time" altogether, or by replacing it with "often." Completely removing the statement would take out the mention of the tendency of the hair to get darker as the fighters power up, which you have correctly pointed out.

Option A: "When relaxed, the user's hair appears more of a yellowish white, but when powered up, the golden glow seen in the first transformation makes a return."

This option does not lead the readers to believe that the golden glow is always present in the SS form, instead leaving out any quantification whatsoever.

Option B: "When relaxed, the user's hair appears more of a yellowish white, but when powered up, the golden glow seen often in the first transformation makes a return."

This option specifically lets the readers know the the SS form is not always accompanied by a golden glow, even suggesting that it may not be the norm.

Option C: "When relaxed, the user's hair appears more of a yellowish white, but when powered up, the golden glow seen all the time in the first transformation makes a return."

This option is the unaltered version. I'll present it just in case someone reading this feels strongly about the current wording.

I think either of these variations would be accurate without losing the info on powering up leading to the gold hair. Let me know which you prefer, or we can further refine the statement. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 22:42, March 20, 2011 (UTC)

Votes

Please sign underneath the option you prefer, and leave any comments under the comments section. This vote is open to everyone.

Option A: "When relaxed, the user's hair appears more of a yellowish white, but when powered up, the golden glow seen in the first transformation makes a return.

"Option B: "When relaxed, the user's hair appears more of a yellowish white, but when powered up, the golden glow seen often in the first transformation makes a return."

Option C: "When relaxed, the user's hair appears more of a yellowish white, but when powered up, the golden glow seen all the time in the first transformation makes a return."

Comments

I feel that option B is the best because it lets people know that the original SS form is not always drawn with the same tone of golden hair. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 22:42, March 20, 2011 (UTC)

This is really confusing to me as I never had a strong interest myself in the SS forms... since there's hardly any difference to me really. I'm going with option B however primarily because it's the closest differentiation showcasing the first ss form's "often" appearing golden glow. - Zarbon by raykugen-d2ygchz PrinceZarbon talk contribZarbon ava3 01:39, March 22, 2011 (UTC)

I like how A sounds, but 10X makes a good point. The glow isn't there all the time. It generally seems to do with whether the user is actively fighting and powered up or not. Joegt123 01:46, March 22, 2011 (UTC)

Option B seems the most viable to me.  SSJ4 Lewich  talk  contribs  08:11, March 22, 2011 (UTC)
I think A flows a little better, but if B is preferred for accuracy, then that's fine with me too! :-) -- Nonoitall talk contr 08:15, March 22, 2011 (UTC)

All those statements are alright, but the structure itself is misleading. All three make a distinction that the golden hair is the same, but don't attribute the light hair to ssj, and because ur not attributing one right b4 you attribute another, it sounds as if you are not attributing light color to ssj. I know if I had never seen dbz before and I read that statement, I'd think the light hair was fpssj only. Why not use a statement like this?

D.) There is no verifiable difference between the hair color of the fpssj and the ssj forms; in both the user's hair appears yellowish white when relaxed, and golden when powered up.

This statement shows that no difference is noted and doesn't leave any room for misinterpretation about whether the statement is drawing a distinction between their appearances.

Also I don't know what you mean by semicolon, sorry

The Perfect Warrior 03:07, March 23, 2011 (UTC)The Perfect Warrior, March 22, 2011

or maybe just don't even mention ssj

The user's hair appears light yellow when relaxed, but changes to a golden glow when powered up.

or something like that, I'm too tired to think right now studying for a physics test lol wish me luck.

The Perfect Warrior 03:15, March 23, 2011 (UTC)The Perfect Warrior, March 22, 2011

Looks like we have a consensus, thanks everyone! -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 23:24, March 25, 2011 (UTC)

Lol alright I'm done. See, normally when people discuss something, if someone brings up a new idea they bring the group back to argue it further. Otherwise you still keep a misleading line in your article, and people continue to quote this article as evidence that fpssj and ssj somehow have a different appearance.


The Perfect Warrior 23:55, March 26, 2011 (UTC)The Perfect Warrior, March 26, 2011

is full powered super saiyan a real form


it actally is the same as super saiyan

Images: ShulabyninjaJeangabinTalkContribDaburawrh 10:16, February 27, 2012 (UTC)

They did that to a great failure according to me...

Goku should have somehow changed DNA, so that his Super Saiyan form would be his base form and he will be able to maintain it even unconciously... :)

That way he would managed to beat Perfect Cell too...... :D

But then he would have lost his Saiyan form :(

117.205.10.150 18:04, June 19, 2011 (UTC)

Uh, yeah. Basicly, the Super Saiyan transformation DOES become more or less one's base form. That's the point. He CAN maintain it unconciously; doesn't he, like, take a nap while transformed? Anyway, how the heck do you propose he change his DNA? I don't even think that would work if he could. And shouldn't this kind of thing be on the forums or something? ZPRN 19:39, June 19, 2011 (UTC)

Goku's clothes started glowing when he powered up to fight cell just like ss3.....


117.205.2.131 17:27, July 15, 2011 (UTC)

Well how about an AFPSS or an Ascended Full-Power Super Saiyan or even a FPSS2....

You can't go Ascended when you've Mastered Super Saiyan. Going Ascended is like trying to pour water into a balloon that's too tight. When you're MSSJ the balloon is just the right size - you can fill it fine, but it won't stretch any further either. To go any higher you'd need SSj2. Xfing (talk) 22:29, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

Goten

Is it possible that Goten can obtain this form, because he seems to have the same things when he goes super saiyan. He never really learned how to go Super Saiyan, and even when he did the first time he was completly calm. That and Goku was a Fpss during the creation of Goten so is it possible that he always had Super Saiyan in him, but he never unlocked it and when he did he was in complete comtrol.{{SUBST:User:SuperSaiyanKrillin/sig4}} 17:28, September 25, 2011 (UTC)

does vegeta ever turn fpssj?

It's possible but never shown, and we don't post speculation in articles. Vegeta does not, no. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 22:17, November 9, 2011 (UTC)


look, fpssj is the term designated to when someone has full control of their ssj form and can be in it w/o draining their ki. There's literally no appearance difference between fpssj and ssj. fpssj is said to appear more calm, but that's only true because they were able to relax in the anime show in this form, so of course they appeared more calm. While actually in battle vs pcell, there was no appearance difference whatsoever seen in Goku to differentiate him from his ssj battles against, for example, android 19.

Btw, it is impossible to know whether anyone in the buu saga used the fpssj form at all, because they weren't ssjs while relaxed, they powered down before and after every battle, so it's impossible to tell whether they maintained the use of this form after the 7 years between the two sagas. I don't see why the article includes that Goku and Gohan used the fpssj form in the buu saga when this was never stated in the anime or manga. Also, the goten and trunks seeming relaxed... and very calm... lol couldn't someone have written that better? Like "It should also be noted that Goten and Trunks appear calm and collective in their ssj forms during the buu saga, so it is possible that they too may have mastered this form. This, however, is never stated or verified."

129.2.129.25 19:47, November 18, 2011 (UTC)anonymous dbz contributor

Official guides disagree with some of what you say here, you should check out our articles and Manual of Style for details. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 03:50, November 19, 2011 (UTC)


yea, no they don't. The guides say fpssj is the mastery of ssj, they are not different forms, but at fpssj the user appears more relaxed. That's a no brainer, because in fpssj in the show they weren't always fighting and were relaxing, whereas before they only used ssj to battle. There's no true difference in appearance whatsoever.

72.83.76.250 06:11, November 19, 2011 (UTC)Anonymous dbz contributor

You can't interpret the guides with your own opinion, we only list facts here. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 05:04, November 20, 2011 (UTC)


I'm not interpretting anything. It says this right in the daizenshuu for fpssj


Debatably, this is not even an actual transformation; it's simply an advancement of an earlier form. However, as the user takes his previous form and does something "new" with it, we'll catalogue it for completeness' sake.


They say themselves that it isn't a new form, they simply do something new with it, which they say is the ability to get rid of the restlessness and be relaxed in the form, seen in the anime when they are slumbering in the form. They do not make any distinction of stress on the face when fighting an opponent. So, as I said, when Goku is fighting an opponent there's no difference in appearance at all between fpssj and ssj, the only difference is in ki consumption. Fpssj is simply the mastery of ssj, no distinction should be made between their appearances.

129.2.129.38 15:47, November 22, 2011 (UTC)Anonymous dbz contributor

Things officially stated to be forms are forms. You are not the first to bring this up, and over the six years of this site our thousands of community members have taken the stance of the official publications, which is that this is a form. Please read the Manual of Style for details. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 05:54, November 23, 2011 (UTC)

No Aura

It's worth mentioning that a powered-down FPSSJ is the only way for a Super Saiyan to not have an aura in the manga. The anime's horribly inconsistent with it, but the manga always has Super Saiyans drawn with their auras - with this single exception. It deserves a mention in the artcile Xfing 04:31, March 15, 2012 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure knocked down/knocked out Super Saiyans lost their aura too. Either way this seems like original research (since you have to have someone go through and look at every manga panel, then we have to simply take their word for it). We try and avoid things like this and only use info that is officially sourced or directly observable. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 04:36, March 15, 2012 (UTC)

Does this push the SSj multiplier up a little?

Since this is, basically, a perfection of the SSj form, would this push up the SSj multiplier from 50x to 75x base form? Just wondering.Disasters GoOn (talk) 01:19, August 23, 2012 (UTC)Disasters GoOn

It's slightly different. Because it relaxes the body, it also lets it handle more power. When a body isn't used to that kind of power, upon powering up a Saiyan transforms to ASSj and then USSj. After mastering Super Saiyan and getting rid of all the tension and restlessness, the body is better conditioned to hold the max power. Look at it that way: Super Saiyan gives you 50x initially (although I believe that multiplier drops the higher the Base power rises, but I digress). Look at it as only a fraction of the Super Saiyan state's true power. The rest of this power is unlocked via ASSj, which mutliplies the power by say, 2x (arbitrary figure), and then USSj by another 2x (once again, that's just a ballpark figure). That gives you 200x Base. Now, when you attain FPSSj you can power up to that 200x just by raising your powerlevel. No super duper energy drain, no cumbersome muscles etc. That's how I see it. Xfing (talk) 21:03, January 5, 2014 (UTC)

About increasing power in FPSSJ

I think that this deserves a mention. While I'm not sure about the accuracy of this translation,

http://www.mangapark.com/manga/dragon-ball-z/c391/7

Vegeta states very clearly what the form's true benefit is supposed to be. The wording used in the article is very confusing, as all these "stamina conservation" gimmicks aren't really all that essential in a battle in the Dragonball universe. What matters is power. The true benefits of Full-Power Super Saiyan are:

1) The ability to freely modify your powerlevel as in Base form

2) The ability to access the totality of Super Saiyan powers without the drawbacks of getting heavy. That's the most important thing - the perfection in Super Saiyan allows the Saiyan to power up and his body to tolerate this power. An untrained Super Saiyan would push the body beyond its limits and therefore cause it great strain, which resulted in muscular bloating. A FPSSJ doesn't have this problem, due to his body being completely used to the transformation. This at least deserves a mention in the article. Xfing (talk) 23:20, September 27, 2012 (UTC)

First off, the person translating that clearly does not have a full grasp of English. Second, though Ascended SS and Ultra SS are new forms that increase weight, normal SS can also increase muscle mass and power. You appear to be assuming that Vegeta is referring to these two new forms, when he is actually referring to just the original. Full Power SS is often referred to as perfect control (no weight gain/speed loss) over the Super Saiyan form for this reason. Perfect control (no weight gain/speed loss) of Ultra SS is SS2. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 23:34, September 27, 2012 (UTC)
Agreed. This translator is bad. I got my hands on the literal translation from Japanese by a Japanese fan, and this turned up:
Chapter: 391 (DBZ 197), P7.2-7
Context: talking about Goku and Gohan's "natural-feeling" Super Saiyan state
Vegeta: “They’ve judged that state as the best! If they get used to that as a matter of habit, then even if they raise their battle power, the strain on their body is very small! [ ] They’ve thought this through…”
What I'd like the article to contain is at least the mention about powering up to the max - the article is more focused on stamina conservation and stamina to fight lengthy battles, but it foregoes the simple and important issue of powering up to the max. Without the USSJ drawbacks.
Plus, I'd like the article to elaborate a bit more about why FP-SSJ makes ASSJ/USSJ obsolete. It's because Ascended and Ultra are not so much transformations, as adverse effects on the body for powering beyond what your body can normally tolerate. As a FP-SSJ these adverse effects cease, and one can power up to the maximum of Super Saiyan powers (that is - equal to the top power of USSJ) with no giant muscles nor rapid stamina drain.
And no, Super Saiyan 2 is not a mastered version of Ultra, Ultra is clearly still just a part of SS1. If things were as you think, then why didn't Goku go Ascended against Cell during the Cell Games? If he timed it well, he'd well be able to overpower Cell and destroy him. He also told Gohan that he was giving it his best, and Gohan wasn't impressed. The answer is simple, he didn't go Ascended/Ultra because he couldn't. He powered up to his maximum powerlevel with no muscular swelling/ ki leaking is all. Xfing (talk) 21:49, September 28, 2012 (UTC)

Your quote doesn't support your argument and pretty much nothing you just said is true. It's stated many times by many characters that the disadvantage of USS is speed, and that the characters at USS have equivalent power to SS2 Gohan and SP Cell. Power-weighted Cell is the equivalent as well. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 22:07, September 28, 2012 (UTC)

Where was that stated? The onlly thing Cell stated is that Trunks became stronger than himself AT THE MOMENT. And Cell was heavily suppressed at that point, it wasn't even a quarter of his full power. Other than that, 50% FP-SSJ Goku was stated by Trunks to be already stronger than his full-power USSJ self.
Trunks fought against Perfect Cell freshly after his transformation. But you seem to have omitted the fact, that Cell greatly powered up against Goku in their Cell Games match, and then further made a gigantic powerup after he got frustrated with SS2 Gohan. SS2 Gohan effortlessly beat Cell even at his full power, which was said by others to be unbelievably powerful, and they believed they'd be doomed. There really isn't any reason to think that USSJ power is anywhere close to SS2. Xfing (talk) 11:05, September 29, 2012 (UTC)

I didn't omit anything, I just only said what is relevant. If you want the full summary of events then read the articles. Like you said, Trunks was indeed as Strong as Cell at USS. I would need to see some quotes to believe the rest of what you said. In any case, you can believe me or not, just don't alter the articles without quotes or citations on new claims. And I don't mean from poorly translated, illegally copied fan versions. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 18:47, September 29, 2012 (UTC)

I'm back in the discussion, and have a quote for you. It was taken from the Strength Checker thread on Kanzenshuu, which you can find here.. Quite a treasure trove for any DB fan.
Chapter: 391 (DBZ 197), P7.2-7

Context: talking about Goku and Gohan's "natural-feeling" Super Saiyan state
Piccolo: “…I think there’s no doubt that they were Super Saiyans…However, they’ve trained so that they can exist in that state at an ordinary, everyday level…”
[ ]
Vegeta: “They’ve judged that state as the best! If they get used to that as a matter of habit, then even if they raise their battle power, the strain on their body is very small! [ ] They’ve thought this through…”

I interpret this as such: the strain on their bodies is very small when they raise their powerlevels AS OPPOSED to when the strain on their body was high when they raised their powerlevels PREVIOUSLY, that is to say as Ascended and Ultra Super Saiyans with no mastery over the form. The articles on this very wiki themselves state that ASSj and USSj are forced states rather than separate forms. Well, this time Goku and Gohan don't have to -force- anything, as their newfound mastery over Super Saiyan allows them to power up without strain. Xfing (talk) 22:48, January 5, 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for bringing up quotes, I love it when people do that! I have forgotten what they relate to though, what do those prove? It had been a little while (4 months I think?) since this topic was discussed. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 01:33, January 6, 2014 (UTC)

Why was my edit reverted?

Why was my edit reverted? That's what did happen later on against Gohan vs Bojack,Zangya,Bujin and Bido fight. He fought very well for a while and then almost got killed after Bojack transformed. That should of been kept in. I made a good edit to the page and it gets reverted. Honestly I'm not trying to harass anyone but for someone reason I think Jean is getting a bit greedy with edits. People make a good edit and it gets reverted? What's up with that? It was what happened in the movie Gohan handled himself well and then he got almost killed thanks to a Bear Hug before he turned SSJ2. So please explain to me why my edit was reverted.What are you so afraid of Cell?Gohan Super Saiyan 2 17:12, May 3, 2013 (UTC)

FPSSJ in "Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans"?

Since "Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans" is said to take place during the 10 day wait for the Cell Games, wouldn't that mean Goku and Gohan used this form in battle throughout the entire OVA? Also, "Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans" takes place after Movie 8 and this page already states Goku and Gohan were FPSSJ while fighting Broly. Should we add this under "Movies" or just add a section that says "OVA"? False Super Saiyan Jake (talk) 18:22, November 26, 2013 (UTC)

Movies and OVAs are close enough that they can almost always be grouped together. Whether or not they used the form should be based on their appearance in the movie. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 06:46, November 27, 2013 (UTC)


Power Up or Power Down

Is what makes the MSSJ form so useful the fact that they don't have to use energy to keep the transformation and can use it for stamina and more power, or that since the super Saiyan's power feels natural, they can power up even further as if they were in base form? Riptide240 (talk) 16:56, March 30, 2014 (UTC)

It's only the first one. 'Full Power SSJ's' power boost is exactly the same as SSJ1, 50x base, it's literally the EXACT same thing as SSJ1, just mastered so that the form can last longer and Ki can be used more for attacks rather than maintaining the form as well as anger not potentially clouding judgement or just getting in the way. There is nothing to hint they can boost their base power because of this or anything, it is only mastered SSJ and has no different effects than SSJ other than removing the negatives. Koibito888 (talk) 11 08, October 16, 2014 (UTC)

Others

Wouldnt Broly count as a FPSS, he seems to be able to regulate his power in his SS form and maintain it easily. Also Goten and Vegito both display "round eyes" not present in the usual form (which has "slanted eyes")Neffyarious (talk) 12:29, April 1, 2014 (UTC)

No, only those who were officially stated to possess this form have to be listed. We can't list other characters based on our own opinion. ShulabyninjaJeangabinTalkContribDaburawrh 12:50, April 1, 2014 (UTC)

Goku Jr.

There is currently an edit war, so I'll start the discussion. Is Goku Jr. a Full Power Super Saiyan? -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 03:42, August 29, 2014 (UTC)

  • Possibly, but there is no confirmation anywhere, the user who adds Goku Jr. as a FPSS keeps using the source for Goten for some reason. Also, Goku Jr. does not display any traits of a FPSS (though for some reason we dont add characters who do have the traits, which I find odd).Neffyarious (talk) 09:46, August 29, 2014 (UTC)

About FPSSJ in "Fusion Reborn"

The movie appearances section states that Goku had FPSSJ form in this movie, but when transforming against first form Janemba Goku clearly has his SSJ2 hairstyle and is never seen with his standard FPSSJ hairstyle. Because of this I feel that the section should be re-worded; It currently says "It is speculated that Goku and Gohan still have their Full Power Super Saiyan state in all the movies set after the Cell Games saga; which would make Goku having this state in Dragon Ball Z: Fusion Reborn, and he and Gohan having it in Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods" but since Goku doesn't appear to be a Full-Power Super Saiyan in Fusion Reborn I think it should say something along the lines of "It is speculated that Goku and Gohan still have their Full-Power Super Saiyan state in all the movies set after the Cell Games saga; which would make this state accessible in Dragon Ball Z: Fusion Reborn (but not used; Goku instead ascended to Super Saiyan 2 when confronting Janemba) and in Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods where Goku used this form to battle Beerus after losing his Super Saiyan God form". Any opinions?False Super Saiyan Jake (talk) 17:22, January 16, 2015 (UTC)

Merge

Since this isn't really a seperate form from Super Saiyan, and is only ever called "Super Saiyan" in the manga, we could merge it with that page. It would be integrated the same was as Super Saiyan God has it's mastery Saiyan beyond God, on it's page.Neffyarious (talk) 13:38, June 3, 2015 (UTC)

It's listed as separate in the Daizenshuu, and if we merged in "Super Saiyan", the page would be huge, because this one is already pretty big. Yakon RenderSandubadearPui Pui Render 16:41, June 3, 2015 (UTC)
SSG is a bad example. First of all - "Saiyan beyond God" its totally a fan-name. Second - FPSS really mentioned separretly from base SS form--Date450190486 16:45, June 3, 2015 (UTC)

Saiyan beyond God is not a fan name. It comes from Dragon Ball Heroes. Also, it's not even a transformation, it's just the Saiyan's base form with god energy. Yakon RenderSandubadearPui Pui Render 16:47, June 3, 2015 (UTC)

A fortiori. Technically, SbG dont even have any differences from SSG, only in colors. As for name - can i see the screenshot with japanese name of this form? From game or card. Without any extra context--Date450190486 16:51, June 3, 2015 (UTC)

I would have to agree on the Full Power Super Saiyan being a totally different form compared to Super Saiyan. If the Daizenshuu lists it as so, then that pretty much wraps it up. I see what you're saying though. It's kind of like Frieza's final form (his original form, not golden form). His 100% final form is listed as a different form all together, even though its simply him in his "final form" at full power. And it should be like that, because its totally different. In appearance, and in energy use. Same as FPSSJ compared to SSJ. Combing it onto the Super Saiyan page... I am neutral with. As long as its pointed out, its a different form that would be more accurate to the series. We can wait if anyone else says anything to add.Ripto (talk) 18:52, June 3, 2015 (UTC)

I agree with the other responses to far. It is a separate form in Daizenshuu, there is a ton of content on the page, and there are multiple users who use it in multiple forms of media. Separate pages is best. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 00:50, June 4, 2015 (UTC)

It's not really separate in Daizenshuu though. Daiz 7 does not differentiate it and Super Saiyan, having the two under the same name and section. The name of the form comes from Daiz 2, in the "Growing Up" section, this section does not actually list forms, rather different versions of each character For example: Goku (Boyhood, Adulthood, Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan Full Power, Super Saiyan 2, Super Saiyan 3, Super Vegito). Gohan (the only other apparent user of FPSS) has his FPSS' form listed in this section simply as "Super Saiyan".

So this form is not really unique, it's name was only ever mentioned once for one character, and otherwise has been grouped in with Super Saiyan every single other time.

Furthermore, it has the same appearance and power of a regular Super Saiyan, it is the same transformation, a Saiyan cannot have both SS and FPSS at the same time since they are the same thing. The only difference between the two is that FPSS is a mastery of the form. Mastery, not further transformation, not like 2GSS or 3GSS.--Neffyarious (talk) 04:47, June 4, 2015 (UTC)

I don't know if it's worth mentioning, but Dragon Ball Encyclopedia list the Full Power Super Saiyan as a different form too. Not that we should use that as a reference, but I think its safe to say it's common knowledge among fans that the forms are different. I am still neutral about the page merge, but there is definitely a difference. It is a mastery of the Super Saiyan... and is technically the same thing. But it's a case of the "Legendary Super Saiyan" form. Yes, it's still a Super Saiyan, but its not at the same time. If we can argue to defend Broly's SSJ exception, why would FPSSJ be any different? Ripto (talk) 05:27, June 4, 2015 (UTC)
Wikipedia? That's Dragon Ball Encyclopedia. Naturally DBE would have Full-Power Super Saiyan listed as separate because that wiki's administrators are also on DB Wiki, so naturally that wiki would share this wiki's opinions. -- Lythronax (leave a message | edits) 06:25, June 4, 2015 (UTC)
Correct you are! Fixed that on my message. And I didn't know DBE had the same administrators. Small world I suppose. Ripto (talk) 06:43, June 4, 2015 (UTC)

There are also sites which have FPSS and SS on the same page, so DBE having them separate is of no consequence. Why would we not merge SS and LSS? Broly actually transforms from SS to LSS, it has a unique appearance, and it has a different power boost. FPSS does not have any traits separate from SS like this one does, it's only difference is that energy does not drop as fast and the restless feeling from SS is gone.--Neffyarious (talk) 07:46, June 4, 2015 (UTC)

I'm not against merging the articles. It might make the Super Saiyan article rather long though. Is 2nd Grade Super Saiyan counted as a different form in the Daiz? Tapion13 Shakuran13' Talk' 08:06, June 4, 2015 (UTC)

  • Yup, Daiz lists 2GSS and SS as seperate.Neffyarious (talk) 15:17, June 4, 2015 (UTC)
The forms do not look the same, although they do occasionally overlap. However, the same overlap can be seen for SS and SS2, and with SSG2 and SSG3. Most of the time, the aura is calmer, and the hair color is much lighter. Daizenshuu EX lists this as a separate form as well, so that's in addition to Daizenshuu. Agreed, DBE should not count, as that site is essentially a mirror of this one. More importantly, the post-time chamber fight against Cell used the difference between FPSS and SSG2 as a major plot point—the FPSS form is why Vegeta and Trunks didn't stand a chance against Perfect Cell, but Goku and Gohan did. We have formal classification as a separate form in Daizenshuu, recognition by another fan site, different appearance, and a major plot revolving around the form being separate. Everything points to added value for this form having a separate article. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 01:26, June 5, 2015 (UTC)
Agree with everything listed above ^ The FPSSJ allows the user to "remain" in that state casually, where regular Super Saiyan does not. In the DBZ manga, (Chapter 390) Vegeta says this line after Goku and Gohan emerge from the time chamber as the "FPSSJ",

""...What’s with them?!... Is that Super Saiyan...!? No...It has a slightly different atmosphere...They’re being so natural in that state..."."

So even Vegeta recognizes it as a different form. Ripto (talk) 03:01, June 5, 2015 (UTC)

Well ok then. Should Saiyan beyond God get it's own page?--Neffyarious (talk) 03:52, June 5, 2015 (UTC)

No Saiyan beyond God does not need its own page. There's no need. It's the after effects of Super Saiyan God. Meshack (talk) 03:18, June 7, 2015 (UTC)

Most Daizenshuu graphic schemes of SS evolution dont list any of secondary form of SS, as second and third grade, but this forms often listed as separated and have slightly diferences in methods, appearance and advantages. As for SbG form - its listed as "consumed by user Super Saiyan God powers", so basically its just Super Saiyan God without sparkly color swap.--Date450190486 11:50, June 7, 2015 (UTC)

No, Saiyan Beyond God is not even a transformation. It's just a Saiyan with godly ki. It's achieved after absorbing the power of the Super Saiyan God, but in itself, Saiyan Beyond God is not a transformation. Yakon RenderSandubadearPui Pui Render 13:21, June 7, 2015 (UTC)

Question. If we are going by Daizenshuu, shouldn't we put all of Super Saiyan's info, after the Cell saga on Full-Power Super Saiyan's page? Meshack (talk) 20:50, June 7, 2015 (UTC)

Piccolo is the Full Power Super Saiyan lmao

Daizenshuu 2

In the book, its says "SUPER SAIYAN FULL POWER". I tthink we should change it to this. Same with Super Saiyan Second Grade and Super Saiyan Third Grade Meshack (talk) 20:35, September 9, 2015 (UTC)

There isn't any difference in my opinion, so sure I guess. Yakon RenderSandubadearPui Pui Render 20:48, September 9, 2015 (UTC)

I mean it's what they put in the guide book. --Meshack (talk) 20:50, September 9, 2015 (UTC)

That's because the guidebook was written in Japanese, and "Full Power Super Saiyan" is more correct in English than "Super Saiyan Full Power" Yakon RenderSandubadearPui Pui Render 21:00, September 9, 2015 (UTC)

well they put it like that for a reason. It might sound better but they doesn't always factor --Meshack (talk) 21:07, September 9, 2015 (UTC)

Trunks and Goten

Daizenshuu 4 might state that Trunks and Goten achieve the FPSS state. Not everyone agrees. Let's discuss. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 08:46, September 13, 2015 (UTC)

I don't think there is much to say, an official guide states they both mastered many things while still young, one of them is the Super Saiyan... Mastered... Super Saiyan... Not to mention their hair is the same of Goku and Gohan. One can't go against what is officially stated, nor remove sourced and valid information. But that's it. Bargeta (talk) 16:48, September 13, 2015 (UTC)

they mastered obatining super saiyan at a young age. Meshack (talk) 18:43, September 13, 2015 (UTC)

I agree that mastering Super Saiyan at a young age probably refers to achieving the form and being in control while transformed, not FPSS. Is there anywhere in official media where Full Power Super Saiyan is referred to as "mastering Super Saiyan"? It seems strange that a guidebook would invent a very significant event that isn't seen or even hinted at in the manga or anime. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 21:11, September 13, 2015 (UTC)

exactly --Meshack (talk) 01:25, September 14, 2015 (UTC)

Name

How come this form keeps getting name changes and new pages.  And where in the world did the source come from? Stitchking1 (talk) 22:24, January 1, 2017 (UTC)

About this name

I think it don't make sense to give this form a name from databook where another transformation, SS2, have not proper name - Super Saiyan 5 Grade. I think Daizenshu is more legitimate source.--Date450190486 14:36, January 3, 2017 (UTC)

i don't agree either, it's offical name is Super Saiyan Full Power Nikon23 23:07, January 3, 2017 (UTC)

While I agree that this page should be Super Saiyan Full Power, nothing says that's the official name. SSJ Fourth Grade is also a name. ~~ IST O L E T H E P I ES π 11:41, January 4, 2017 (UTC)

Change in picture.

For the manga picture, can it be a color version of this? Fpssj_goku1.jpg

If not that, can a full body shot of Goku and Gohan exiting the Time Chamber in the Anime be acceptable?Rogeta234 (talk) 21:57, January 28, 2017 (UTC)

Future Gohan

Is Future Gohan a Super Saiyan Full Power? During the battle vs Android 17 and 18. For example [1]--Sharingan91 (talk) 09:31, May 21, 2017 (UTC)

I think that Future Gohan uses this form.--Sharingan91 (talk) 19:41, July 29, 2017 (UTC)

Nope, he didn't use the form.Yone!米津愛主!Golden Frieza artVisit my talk page! 20:16, July 29, 2017 (UTC)

Light Yellow hair and Absence of aura [2].--Sharingan91 (talk) 10:50, July 30, 2017 (UTC)
Future Gohan didn't live long enough to master the Super saiyan form. In fact, none of the Saiyan Z Fighters achieved this form due to them dying before they had a chance to do so. They didn't know of the upcoming danger of the Future Androids, and thus never trained to master SSJ Faiquan (talk) 10:30, September 8, 2017 (UTC)Faiquan