This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Shin article.
The plural of "kai" in Japanese is "ka" (in Roman characters, with the line over the "a" such as you would see over the "o" in shogun). However, this would be confusing, so I changed the plurals to simply "kai", rather than "kais", or even worse, as it was written before I changed it - "kai's". *shudder*
- IIRC, "Kais" was used in the English anime, was it not? -- 10:53, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
That is stupid
If u look in GT he uses instant transimission LOL!
- He uses the similar Instantaneous Movement technique. (Technically it's Kibito and Kibito Kai who use the technique though. IIRC, Supreme Kai never demonstrated the ability on his own.) -- 09:07, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
Down in the trivia section, its stated that Kibito never died in DBZ. Didn't he get blown away by Dabura and have to get brought back? I didn't want to make an edit without mentioning it first. --Jivjov 00:15, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
- Yes indeed. At first when I read that over I couldn't quite remember what had happened and thought that Dabura had spit on him, but you're right. Thanks for catching that! -- 08:54, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
Elder Kaio, Ancestor?
Rename to "Eastern Supreme Kai"
all the other supreme kai's pages use that format.
Didn't goku ask the supreme kai to fuse with him. well thats what my friend said anyway. P.s if it does happen does it happen in the orignal or just the dub. Oops forgot to sign Before you're bornDeath flashes before your eyes. 16:23, January 26, 2010 (UTC)
Whomever is naming all the Kais as "supreme kais" is wrong. There is only one "Supreme" kai. Supreme Kai's page suggests that he is the ruler of the eastern quadrant, that's completely. Supreme Kai is over all of the other Kais, including the Grand Kai. Are you forgetting that there is already an Eastern Kai?
To prove my fact, watch the episode where piccolo reveals Supreme Kai's identity to the others. It's revealed that he is above all the other kais and that King Kai hadn't even met the guy. So please stop providing bogus information about King Kais and Supreme Kais.
Is he the Grand Supreme Kai now?
I'm not sure what actually happened. Did he get promoted to Grand Supreme Kai afer all the other Supreme Kais died? It seems like he's responsible for the entire universe, not just 1/4 of it. And was Elder Kai just the East Supreme Kai or the Grand Supreme Kai? 18.104.22.168 16:27, September 24, 2010 (UTC)
Okay, so I heard that head shots are not allowed for infobox images, so why does Supreme Kai have one? Would these be better to replace?
Ripto22475 00:34, September 8, 2011 (UTC)
- Head shots are allowed.. Jeangabin666 07:30, September 8, 2011 (UTC)
The image I suggested for Broly's infobox page was not allowed, due to it being a head shot, so I'll have to talk to 10X about it. It's kind of unfair if Supreme Kai can have a headshot when Broly can't. Super Saiyan GoateeSend me a message! 07:47, September 8, 2011 (UTC)
- Okay that sounds good Nappa'sGoatee. Lets see what 10X says. Thanks. Ripto22475 20:10, September 8, 2011 (UTC)
I didn't say they're not allowed, I only wanted to convey that full bod y images are generally preferred. It partially depends on the character, for instance whether their body type is of significance. -- 10X Ka.me.ha.me.ha ..... talk ..... contrib. 01:58, September 9, 2011 (UTC)
I believe you said on the talk page and I quote, "Sorry, head shots are pretty much out of the question". Meaning that they were not allowed by the way it is written. Going by what you said, Supreme Kai's infobox
image should be changed. I am not saying do mine, but if you can find a better one, please do so. But personally the first link is better for him, since is describes his character, elegance, and power. Ripto22475 02:46, September 9, 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry to contradict you, but you can't just go around making assumptions like that. I meant exactly what I said, not what you think I meant. -- 10X Ka.me.ha.me.ha ..... talk ..... contrib. 02:51, September 9, 2011
I am sorry, I was not meaning to make an assumption, I was just doing what I was told. Sorry I mis understood. But anyway, do you not think the links I have posted would be better since they have more body? 22.214.171.124 03:20, September 9, 2011 (UTC)Ripto22475
- It's cool, it's just a pet peeve of mine, since I speak/type very deliberately. The first link is lower quality, so I'm not really a fan. The second is about as good as the current one in my opinion, the amount of body added is negligible to me. -- 10X Ka.me.ha.me.ha ..... talk ..... contrib. 03:27, September 9, 2011 (UTC)
This is what I don't understand
I liked the Buu saga, but you know what bothered me? The fact that it would never had happened if stupid Supreme Kai never GAVE Gohans energy to Majiin Buu. He literally handed it to him on a silver platter, knowing Majiin Buu was the strongest. But he doesnt want Majiin Buu to be unleashed?!?! WHAT THE HECK! really annoys me.
The first paragraph of this section is structured well, but in my opinion it starts to get a bit messy in the second. Supreme Kai saying that he and the others were "a thousand times stronger than Freeza" was a dub addition; in the Manga and Japanese version of the anime he just said that they could kill Freeza in a single blow.
Also, it's speculation to say that Supreme Kai was referring to Freeza's first form; there really isn't any solid evidence to back it up. In Dragon Ball, when a character is said to be stronger than someone else, it nearly always means that they are stronger than the full power that person can put out unless specified (especially previous villains; when Trunks said that the Androids were stronger than Freeza, he wasn't talking about Freeza at a suppressed version of his power, he literally meant that they made any version of his power look small). In this case, Freeza has been gone for years in the storyline and is being used as a measure of power. It really wouldn't make sense for the dialogue to be referring to his first form specifically since 1. Freeza's power has become long since irrelevant by the Buu saga, and 2. Why wasn't it specified that Supreme Kai meant Freeza's first form? The Daizenshuu said that Supreme Kai was far stronger than Piccolo in the Buu saga, so he must make Freeza look like an ant.
Cell's 900 million power level in Scouter Battle Taikan Kamehameha wasn't said to be official; in fact, a lot of video games seem to have conflicting power levels for characters. Supposing that 900 million is Cell's true power level though, there isn't necessarily a contradiction with Supreme Kai: He didn't claim to be 1000 times stronger than Freeza originally, so he could be say, 700 million and be able to annihilate Freeza in a single blow while still being weaker than Cell and Dabura.
I think before he actually reveals himself as the Supreme Kai, we should call him Shin instead of Supreme Kai. After that we could continue using Supreme Kai. Meshack (talk) 03:39, February 14, 2016 (UTC)
Ok, I am very, very confused with this life link. Based on the information, Beerus was alive 75 million, as was Old Kai, who was the Supreme Kai at that time. Since that time, 15 generations of Kai's have passed by, and since Old Kai and Beerus were alive at that time, and the God of Destruction and Supreme Kai are life linked, does hit life link pass down through each generation of Kai, or was the current Supreme Kai alive 75 million years ago? Can anybody help with this information? TNTDiscoCisco (talk) 02:22, September 3, 2016 (UTC)
- I'm assuming that as long as there's one Kai alive in the universe/dimension (Old Kai doesn't count because he was sealed in another dimension), Beerus remains alive. If all Kais are dead, Beerus dies. Don't take my word for it though, I'm honestly not sure. -- • • 02:25, September 3, 2016 (UTC)
If Supreme Kai dies, Beerus does too. It probably passed through the generations of Kais, but we don't know for sure. Maybe Beerus wants Goku to be the new God of Destruction so Beerus won't be annoyingly life linked to a "weakling" anymore?? -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 05:46, September 4, 2016 (UTC)
I have considered this before and I want to knownif you guys agree with changing this page to East Supreme Kai and change Supreme Kai (position) to Supreme Kai. I feel that this is better because he is the East Kaioshin (Supreme Kai) and we're wasting a redirect on something we shouldn't be wasting it on. What do you think? Meshack (talk) 05:35, September 19, 2016 (UTC)
- There are merits to both. He is usually called Supreme Kai, but East Supreme Kai is correct too. Supreme Kai would be easier for readers. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 02:05, September 21, 2016 (UTC)
- East Supreme Kai and every other Kaioshin has their direction Meshack (talk) 03:11, September 21, 2016 (UTC)
The point I'm trying to make is that we should change the name of the page to East Supreme Kai rather than Supreme Kai but East Supreme Kai is being wasted as a redirect when it should be the article title. Also the other Kaioshin have the directions Meshack (talk) 03:21, September 21, 2016 (UTC)
I would be ok with changing the names to the characters original name as long as we use redirects and we put in the first paragraph also known as with the Funimation dub name their and in the infobox.
- Okay well you haven't said anything new. I'm generally against making things harder on readers with no tangible benefit. All the info is in the article and having a redirect means both names get you here. Using the dramatically more common one is better in this case. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 03:25, September 21, 2016 (UTC)
- 10X, i'm sorry but I don't see why it's hard for you to change. Most of the users from the wiki I've talked is okay with except you. I don't know if it's because you are mainly attracted to the Funimation dub (probably haven't seen the Japanese version) or what. I get having that it makes it harder for the casuals but that's why you find ways to make it easier. Soon, another wiki will surpass this one if this wiki continues to flop Meshack (talk) 04:16, September 21, 2016 (UTC)
Only 2 people responded to you including myself. Goku20 seems neutral, so "most of the users" is wrong unless there is some other version of this article. This is an English Wiki so using English names makes sense. Writing Japanese names as article titles is illogical, there is a separate Japanese DB Wiki for that. If we write articles in a foreign language it would make the site worse, unlike now where it is the most used. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 01:47, September 22, 2016 (UTC)
What are you talking about? I'm not trting to make this wiki into the Japanese wiki and use hiragana, kanji, and katakana. I want to use Boo rather than Buu, Kuririn rather than Krillin, Tenshinhan rather than Tien Shinhan because it's their name. I'm sure you know Funimation had translation errors when translating their names. Also, it would cause less problems like King Kai. Meshack (talk) 01:57, September 22, 2016 (UTC)
- You want to use subtitles from the Japanese anime rather than the officially licensed translations. It's less official and harder for readers than what we're doing now. There is no benefit to what you're proposing. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 02:09, September 22, 2016 (UTC)
The "official licensed" translation are not correct. That's like if 4kids decided to ise Ruffi rather than Luffy even though Luffy is the correct name. We cannot continue to use these names. Really, this is not about the readers. That would adjust like I did Meshack (talk) 02:12, September 22, 2016 (UTC)
- Keeping the current English names haven't caused any confusion or misunderstandings before on here so I would vote to leave it as is. English wiki and thus English names. --Ripto 03:09, September 23, 2016 (UTC)
"This is not about the readers." There's your problem. This is not a private journal written by a super fan to make himself happy because it is a certain way. It is a public encyclopedia meant to be useful for readers. Rethink your logic with the correct goal. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 00:47, September 24, 2016 (UTC)
Wasn't being very serious when I wrote that sentence but have you seen the One Piece Wiki? Naruto Wiki? They do not show bias towards a certain dub. There're being neutral so why can't we be neutral? Meshack (talk) 00:49, September 24, 2016 (UTC)
- They show extreme bias toward the manga, although those franchises are different than DB so I couldn't judge them. We are not showing bias since all names are displayed prominently on all the articles. We have no choice but to pick a single name for the article titles so we picked what is objectively best for an English Wiki. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 01:16, September 24, 2016 (UTC)
- No, 10X. They are not showing any bias towards the manga. If you are referring to the English manga, well you're still wrong. The One Piece Wiki uses the actual names of the character and not translation of neither the manga and anime. One most notable character is Roronoa Zoro. In the English manga, Zoro's name was changed to Zolo due to copyright reasons and other unknown factors. How is that bias to the manga? Another is Eneru. Eneru should be spelled Enel but neither the anime nor the manga uses that spelling. From Naruto, when Boruto was announced in Shonen Jump or something, Viz translated his name as Bolt but it was Boruto (though that's the pun.) Speaking of puns, when you rely on English translations, puns may be lost. For example, Jheese loses his pun when his name is translated to Jeice (pun on cheese.) The authors work hard to be able to name characters of puns but it gets lost when someone does incorrect translations.
What I'm trying to say is that we cannot rely on the English translations for correct names even though the anime is more popular. Using Krillin over Kuririn is bias even though Kuririn is his. I'm not suggesting we should fully remove the English names from the wiki. I am suggesting that in the infobox, we have a "Official English Name" section below the Romaji so it's more clear than having it anywhere else. I know this may be hard for you because you probably haven't seen the anime in Japanese but you can't let hold the potential of that being useful back. One Piece does it and still gets more views than the Dragon Ball Wiki.
"...those franchises are different than DB so I couldn't judge them." No. Dragon Ball is still a Japanese manga/anime like One Piece and Naruto, not an American production. Also, both One Piece and Naruto were inspired by Dragon Ball. That statement alone shows you have no other knowledge of the series than what the anime English dub gives you. I know this will be hard for readers at the start but it will eventually become easier for them. Meshack (talk) 02:22, September 24, 2016 (UTC)
I'm with 10X on this one. This is an English wiki for the general audience of English Dragon Ball fans, who are more familiar with the dubbed anime. The Manual of style clearly states we use the character's most well known name for the article's name, and that would be the dub name.
- Please insert a source when you say One Piece Wiki gets more views. Currently, the DragonBall Wiki has overall more edits and active users than the stats of One Piece Wiki. Also note, page views vary each week to months.
- The Wikia Activity Monitor of DragonBall Wiki is currently +99.29 versus the stagnant 98.88 of One Piece (these stats change daily). --Ripto 02:56, September 24, 2016 (UTC)
Even with that, the One Piece Wiki does so well with using the original names and they still are able to pull numbers like that. I don't see why we don't just try it. I suggest we change Goku to Son Goku for a week as a test and then see if his views decline drastically Meshack (talk) 03:10, September 24, 2016 (UTC)
- Also, if you don't think the English terms cause problems: Instant Transmission and Instantaneous Movement are good example. Meshack (talk) 20:50, September 24, 2016 (UTC)
They do show bias toward the manga, as shown by tagging anime as non-canon. If your point is they use English anime names, then we do that too so everyone disagrees with you. I don't know why you think us being like them would be using manga names if they don't even do that. I'm disappointed that when everyone here and there disagrees with you, you stop making arguments with facts and resort to personal attacks. You say that because anime names make more sense for readers that I'm unaware there is a Japanese anime? We've been discussing it. You claim that me not being aware of the media we're discussing is holding back the site? Again absurd since we've been discussing it. And apparently you lied about site stats because it would have helped your argument. Reminds me of when you lied about how often I edit. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 01:43, September 26, 2016 (UTC)
why in the flying holy fuck is the page renamed Shin? it was nothing more than an undercover nickname in the Torney...short for KaioSHIN. ya know his job/title.--RexGodwin (talk) 19:32, December 30, 2016 (UTC)
- His name was officially revealed to be "Shin" a few weeks ago via the DB Super website. -- • • 19:51, December 30, 2016 (UTC)
- gonna need translated proof, anyone can claim BS like that--RexGodwin (talk) 17:46, December 31, 2016 (UTC)
The site has been translated, though. Stop with the profanity man.18:20, December 31, 2016 (UTC)
- Feel free to copy and paste it into Google Translate if you still don't believe it. Is there any more proof you'd like, or do we have your permission to move on? -- • • 19:09, December 31, 2016 (UTC)
Even during the U6 saga, he was credited as "Shin" a few times.20:55, December 31, 2016 (UTC)