This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Tien Shinhan article.
Missing Technique? (most likley not)Edit
Sorry, this isc coming from someone who has only seen the dubbed anime so for all I know it could just be an anime only technique or a dubbed named or maybe it is listed and I'm just being a nub. But in the saiyan saga, just before Tien dies, he unleashing an attack on nappa, but I don't see this attack listed. Although it might just be the tri-beam but done with one hand so it was a sort of pseudo-tribeam. Its where tien only has one arm left, and he unleashes all his power in an attack and he appears to be saying something laong the liens of "Ki-Ko-Ha"
No, your right it was the Tri Beam Tien was just using it with one hand because, well he only had one hand at the time.
Oh right, nvm then. The tri-beam page also lists the japanese name as 'ki-ko-ho' so yeah its the same technique.
Tien's image Edit
Would it be alright if we got a newer picture of Tien. Like one later in the series and how would I go about changing it?
- When editing the page, click on the Add Images button. -- 01:49, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
What do you think would be Tien's power level in the Cell Saga?
- Probably at least 5. ;-) Seriously though, our speculation isn't really relevant to the article. -- 09:33, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
Uuh, actually about 800,000 smartie. (18.104.22.168 18:46, 24 January 2009 (UTC))
The character box says Tien is human but the Trivia section says he's a "Triclops". Which one is right?--22.214.171.124 19:00, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
- The character box is correct. Tenshinhan and Chaozu are both humans. -- KneeKicker 04:55, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
- Then should we mention that the Daizenshuu is wrong in the Trivia?--126.96.36.199 14:42, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
- Yes, we should. The Daizenshuu is known for possessing certain content and PL readings that contradict what has been stated in the manga, and if Tenshinhan and Chaozu were really aliens, a big deal would have been made about them being as such in the storyline (such as Son Goku, Piccolo and Kami-Sama having their true races revealed to us readers and viewers). So yeah, I think we should mention that the Daizenshuu is wrong in this case. -- KneeKicker 14:59, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
- What's the source on them being human? -- 09:56, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
- The manga. It has never once been stated or even hinted at that either of them are aliens. Tien's Four Arms technique (in DB vol.11) and Four Bodies technique (in DB vol.15) were treated as just that; techniques. Nobody questioned if he was some type of alien at all, and nobody questioned his and Chaozu's appearance. Tien, Chaozu, Master Crane and Taopaipai have never once mentioned that Tien and Chaozu belonged to another race at all.
- I also came across this:
- "From Shounen Jump, issue #1, 'Ask Akira Toriyama!'
- What's up with the third eye on my main man Tenshinhan? Is Tenshinhan human?-Charles Moyer, California
- In certain parts of Asia, beings with a third eye on their forehead are though to be godlike and are said to possess the power of true seeing. It seems that Tenshinhan, who was raised by the evil Tsuru-Sen'nin, lost the ability to use the myriad powers of his third eye for good purposes-Akira Toriyama
- Tenshinhan is a human that has a godlike third eye."
- The credit for the Shounen Jump, issue #1 quote I have presented here goes to Chibi Mystic Gohan: http://anime.myfavoritegames.com/648207-post82.html From what I've read of his translations, he is indeed a very trustworthy source, so there is no need to worry about false information being presented here.
- -- KneeKicker 13:06, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
Well, the omission of his race in the manga is just that — an omission. By definition, omissions do not fill in the blanks. In the reference you provided, the actual translation only referred to the three-eyed people as "godlike beings", (not necessarily humans). The poster himself seemed to be the one drawing the conclusion that Tien was human, and I'm not sure that conclusion is entirely warranted. --06:54, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
- To be honest, there aren’t even that much blanks to fill in where this particular topic is concerned. If Tenshinhan and Chaozu were aliens like some people still believe they are, then Akira Toriyama himself would have either explicitly hinted at the idea, or straight up mentioned it somehow in the manga storyline just like he did for Son Goku. Akira Toriyama would have done this, seeing as the two ex-Crane school Students have both played such big parts in the story. Not his staff, just him. Plus, a clue would be Tenshinhan's and Chaozu's supposed "alien race" names would have most likely been based around puns, not something like "The Three-eyed race". :/
- In fact, Son Goku is a perfect example of this; everyone thought he was just a really odd but powerful human when Dragon Ball first came around. And he more or less was, until Akira Toriyama himself introduced new information into the manga at the start of DBZ revealing that Son Goku is actually a member of the alien Saiyan race, and not actually a human after all. A similar scenario would have happened to Chaozu and Tenshinhan (most likely coming from Master Crane and/or Taopaipai), if it were to be the case that they were Extra Terrestrials.
- "Beings with a third eye" doesn't automatically mean, not a human. “Three-eyed people” means exactly that – people with three eyes. I don’t see how that means, another race different from human beings. Plus, Akira Toriyama himself not saying “And no, Tenshinhan is not a human” or anything similar when he was clearly asked “Is Tenshinhan human?” only adds more strength to the case of him being a human being and not actually an alien. He never said Tenshinhan wasn't a human right there, so why assume Tenshinhan isn't one?
- As for Chaozu, he is either a human who is based off a Jiang Shi (Chinese Vampire), or is most likely a Jiang Shi himself. It's pretty obvious once one takes the time to view some of the similarities; unlike him being a member of an alien race, something which is not so obvious.
- The similarities:
- Chaozu - Jiang Shi (Chinese Vampire)
- Pale, white skin = generally the same.
- Red cheeks = generally the same.
- Can walk, but prefers to levitate more, considering his height = Hops around instead of walks.
- Usually wears Chinese Robes (like others from the Crane School) = generally the same.
- Stretches out his arms when doing the Telekinesis attack and as a fighting stance in the DBZ part of the series = Stretches out arms whilst travelling and attacking.
- Now, judging by the looks of things, it appears there is more manga based evidence from Akira Toriyama for the case of Chaozu either being a human based off a Jiang Shi, or him being a Jiang Shi himself, rather than simply being an alien from some random, unmentioned and never-hinted-at race…�:/
- And about the source I provided earlier; I wasn't even concerned about the poster seemingly drawing his own conclusion, since he was just summarizing what the article was basically saying for the people in that thread. Anyway, here is a more physical copy of the source I posted earlier, courtesy of El Diablo from MFG forums: http://img228.echo.cx/img228/1125/img7jn.jpg
- Kuririn having no visible nose (plus being able to expand the size of his body to stop himself falling, just by inhaling a certain amount of air) and Master Roshi being able to grow many times his size with bulky muscles makes little people question their positions as humans. So why must Chaozu and Tenshinhan be questioned? We shouldn’t assume the two of them are aliens just because they look different from most other humans and perform unique-appearing techniques. In a world where a dog in a suit is the king of the world, talking animals walk around in everyday clothing and dinosaurs exist in the same realm as hover cars and mobile phones, a human with a third eye and another shorter human with pale skin and red cheeks evidently isn't considered all that odd. -- KneeKicker 03:51, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
- I never said we should assume that they are aliens or even that they are not human, but unlike most of the other characters, Tien and Chiaotzu's backgrounds aren't very thoroughly explored. It is not unusual for various body parts to be left out (in the case of Krillin's nose) or exaggerated (in the case of Roshi's muscles, and Krillin's blowing himself up) in animation and comics. It is a bit more unusual to have extra body parts added in. Since they both bare unusual, non-human characteristics, it seems unsafe to assume anything about them that isn't stated, or at least heavily implied in official material.
- EDIT: And, to apply your own logic, in a series with numerous humanoid races besides humans (some even indigenous to Earth), can we really dismiss the fair possibility that Tien and Chiaotzu are among them? You yourself said that Chiaotzu resembled a Jiang Shi more than a human. -- 01:01, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
- "I never said we should assume that they are aliens or even that they are not human,”
- And I never said you, personally, did. As it goes, I didn't even mention the word "you" once in this comments section until this reply. I was speaking generally, but also had this part from one of your previous replies in mind whilst typing: “In the reference you provided, the actual translation only referred to the three-eyed people as "godlike beings", (not necessarily humans).”
- There are many characters in Dragon Ball who happen to be human (i.e Kuririn, Yamcha, Launch, Man-Wolf, etc.) who also have backgrounds that aren’t very thoroughly explored. That point doesn't really mean a lot… Also, weither it’s unusual in comic books and animation or not, they all still fall under the same category of “features "ordinary" humans cannot do or have”, regardless. And Master Roshi actually grew extremely immense in size, not just have his muscles exaggerated. The point you made about them both "bearing unusual, non-human characteristics" would hold some weight, except that there are other humans in DB which bare unusual, “non-human” characteristics as well. Examples:
- Man-Wolf is exactly what his name implies; a human man that can transform into a wolf (or vice versa) in sight of a full moon. This appears to be a non-human characteristic.
- Launch can sneeze and change into a different person (different hair colour and personality). This appears to be a non-human characteristic.
- Kuririn and Master Roshi still both count here as humans which possess non-human characteristics.
- In real life, people can be born with an extra body part or two, or even together as Siamese twins, which only further supports my point. People can even be born with an extra head: ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSy9W3gIhnQ ) and ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbC04A9nUmU&feature=related ). I have seen people with pale white skin (there are also albino people too, for example), see people's faces go pale when they're afraid or cold and have also seen people get red cheeks when they are hot or embarrassed (Chaozu’s red cheeks in his character design are exaggerated). It’s pretty heavily implied that they are humans in official material (I.e. the manga) and the interview with Akira Toriyama that I posted up earlier, which holds more weight than a groundless assumption that the two of them are aliens simply because they look a little different... I still don’t see how Chaozu and Tenshinhan wouldn't possibly be human.
- Oh, and I never said we should dismiss the possibility completely at all, as people can think and believe what they want; I’m just saying that it doesn't really make sense to believe they are aliens (or part of some humanoid races amongst humans or whatever) simply because they appear a little different from most other humans, especially when it was never stated, backed up by anything in the manga or even remotely hinted at, at all. I'm questioning the logic of the assumptions. Also, how did you use my own logic? The logic I’m using is the following; if it wasn’t stated or at least very heavily implied in the manga (the case for them being humans is), then it most likely isn’t true, and just because they don’t appear as "normal" humans or have extra limbs and such, doesn’t mean they are not humans.
- “You yourself said that Chiaotzu resembled a Jiang Shi more than a human”
- I also said "a human who is based off a Jiang Shi (Chinese Vampire)". Considering the similarities I posted up previous, it appears very likely. Like I said, it's just a possibility, but at least has some evidence supporting it. Also, Jiang Shi (Chinese Vampires) are zombies that are reanimated human corpses, which can also be pale skinned. A Chinese human zombie is still technically a human; just an undead human. Which means my point still stands on Chaozu most likely being a human as well. - KneeKicker 13:24, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
- I've got a thing. In the World Tournament Saga, Yamcha says to Marron something like "Daddy Krillin is the strongest in the world." but then thinks "At least the strongest Human..". As i tend to believe Tien Shinhan is stronger than Krillin, it's implied Tien is no Human. - RenbuItsuQiRinKai Talk Contrib 01:58, November 7, 2009 (UTC)
- Krillen has no nose, that doesn't mean he isn't human, Yamcha said that Krillen is the strongest human but he also thought that he was in the same strength class as Vegeta in the Trunks Saga.
- @ RenbuItsuQiRinKai: Yamcha's quote to Marron can easily be explained. For example, Yamcha hasn't sensed or seen Tenshinhan in 7 years (at the Cell Games) and Chaozu in 10 years (at the Freeza/Future Trunks site), so Yamcha would only know about the powers that he last saw/sensed them with; thus his quote only proves that Kuririn(Buu era) > Tenshinhan(Cell Games) > Chaozu(Trunnks saga) and that's all. That quote doesn't prove or suggest that Tenshinhan isn't a human.
- I have many reasons myself to believe both Tenshinhan and Chaozu are stronger than Kuririn by the time the Buu era comes, but using that Yamcha quote to assume Tenshinhan isn't a human just so you can have him stronger than Kuririn doesn't make any sense. :/ - KneeKicker 23:23, November 14, 2009 (UTC)
KneeKicker stop acting like a ridiculous idiot.Your links written by fanboys in fan sites are irrelevant. In a site named Kanzentai ruled by Herms it is explained that in the daizenshuu 4 and 7 supervised by Akira Toriyama Tenshinhan is classified as an earthling with alien ancestry.Get over it. That is the only official information regarding this side character. Your subjective conclusions are irrelevant for the article. Stop acting like a kid,plus in the games raging blast or Budokai Tenkaichi 1 more precisely in the encyclopedia section inside both games it is stated that Tenshinhan belongs to an alien race called Three Eyes. This doesn't mean he is an alien,this means he is an earthling with alien ancestry.Tenshinhan is an hybrid,Herms explained that in the manga sayajin characters are called humans several times so the information regarding Tenshinhan alien ancestry was made to put an end in that nonsense that Krillin was stronger than tenshinhan.
- Do not refer to other users as "idiots". Thank you. -- .10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 22:54, December 30, 2009 (UTC)
@ This anonymous crybaby who doesn't even sign off his comment:
"KneeKicker stop acting like a ridiculous idiot."
I find this comment hilarious, especially when taking into account the way you act in this little "rant" of yours. xD
"Your links written by fanboys in fan sites are irrelevant."
Did you even read the link to the scan before you decided to spout this nonsense? An interview with Akira Toriyama (from Shounen Jump, issue #1, "Ask Akira Toriyama!") certainly holds more weight than what you say. I would rather trust what the man who created the entire manga would say in an interview rather than what his shoeshine boys state in some book. I mean, let's not go to a solicitor for help regarding a court case, let's go to the janitor instead since they both work in the same building! What he says must be just as reliable!
"In a site named Kanzentai ruled by Herms it is explained that in the daizenshuu 4 and 7 supervised by Akira Toriyama"
I already know about the Kanzentai site, but so what? Supervision does NOT equal creation.
"Tenshinhan is classified as an earthling with alien ancestry."
Not in the manga (the series of Japanese comic books created by Akira Toriyama himself) he wasn't. If you had even bothered to read everything in this debate, you would know that I was not even arguing about what goes in the article, as that's not my problem. What I AM concerned about though, is what's shown, stated and implied in the manga and the credibility of non-manga material. Tenshinhan was never stated or implied to have "alien ancestry" or any of that bullshit in the manga, so I sure as hell do NOT have to take it as fact just because you act like I should. People were replying to me first after I answered a normal question, I then responded back to them. And now you, Mr. Tough Guy, just randomly strolls in here giving it the Eddie Large like I have to care about what you say. Instead of being an ass, show me a link to an interview, like what I did before, where Akira Toriyama (yes, the man himself, NOT from the guidebook crew or especially you; I don't care about your own sentimental opinion) states that Tenshinhan has alien ancestry OR where he said the Daizenshuu was as canon as his manga.
"Get over it."
There's nothing for me to "get over", Einstein; YOU'RE the one acting like a whiny brat here, not me.
"That is the only official information regarding this side character."
Only if we just, you know, ignore the manga completely.
"Your subjective conclusions are irrelevant for the article."
As are yours, so pull your head out of your backside and lose the superiority complex. The Daizenshuu was created by Akira Toriyama's staff, not by Akira Toriyama himself. They are supplementary information released to appease a fanbase; not the be-all, end-all. Why should I have to care about their point of view on Akira Toriyama's work, especially when some pompous, self-righteous fool bellows at me, impling that I do so? I never said people cannot put Daizenshuu information on the article; people can do what they want and from when anime filler & FUNimation dub material are mentioned, all gloves are off regarding that matter. I'm saying that nobody absolutely has to take non-Akira Toriyama information as gospel; it can be ignored.
"Stop acting like a kid,"
That's rich coming from the nameless guy who said I'm "acting like a ridiculous idiot" earlier.
"plus in the games raging blast or Budokai Tenkaichi 1 more precisely in the encyclopedia section inside both games it is stated that Tenshinhan belongs to an alien race called Three Eyes.This doesn't mean he is an alien,this means he is an earthling with alien ancestry.Tenshinhan is an hybrid,"
You mention this like the games are as canon as the manga or something. Akira Toriyama approved most things that used his franchise's characters and locations (i.e. DBGT, video games, movies, anime filler, trading cards, etc.). In what way does that make them as canon as the manga, his original work? And for the record, your opinion on what Tenshinhan is contradicts what the games said. How can Tenshinhan belong to an alien race if he is a hybrid? Being a hybrid means he would belong to more than one race, not just one.
Now, going by what you just said:
Belongs to an alien race called Three Eyes = doesn't mean he is an alien = Earthling with alien ancestry = Tenshinhan is a hybrid?
Yeah right, if you say so. *rolls eyes*
"Herms explained that in the manga sayajin characters are called humans several times"
Except we all know full well that Saiya-Jin characters are NOT humans. You and I have both seen the clear differences between the two species for them not to be the same as each other, regardless of they are called in the story.
"so the information regarding Tenshinhan alien ancestry was made to put an end in that nonsense that Krillin was stronger than tenshinhan."
How do you know that was the reason the "Tenshinhan has alien ancestry" information was put into the Daizenshuu? That just comes across as grasping at straws. Anyway, it was stated in Akira Toriyama's manga that Kuririn is the strongest human. Anybody can interpret what they like from that statement of Yamcha's, including the Daizenshuu crew. However, that still does not give you the right to try and shove their guesswork down my throat and have me accept it as %100 true, especially to confirm your sentimental opinion about Kuririn being stronger than Tenshinhan "nonsense". - KneeKicker 07:47, January 3, 2010 (UTC)
Okay,ill settle this, both of you stop arguing this is wiki, we dont speculate,this isnt the place for that.find a forum and do it there. Unless it is stated for sure in a daizenshuu or something, we can't be certain,so we shall leave it blank for the time being. There's tons of stuff we dont know, and we unfortunately cant do anything about that,so id like you both to settle down and drop it.or.if need be,find a forum --Silver Sinspawn 11:15, January 3, 2010 (UTC)
"This anonymous crybaby who doesn't even sign off his comment: " I know how to sign it ,simply i didn't bother to do it.There is no doubt that you prefer to make always dumb assumptions.Typical from an irrational fanboy.
"Did you even read the link to the scan before you decided to spout this nonsense? An interview with Akira Toriyama (from Shounen Jump, issue #1, "Ask Akira Toriyama!") certainly holds more weight than what you say. I would rather trust what the man who created the entire manga would say in an interview rather than what his shoeshine boys state in some book. I mean, let's not go to a solicitor for help regarding a court case, let's go to the janitor instead since they both work in the same building! What he says must be just as reliable! "
Yes,i know that interview and everyone with a brain can understand that Toriyama is not saying that he is human,he just explained the source of his inspiration to do the character. Unfortunately, I'm speaking with a fanboy who thinks his own fan-made biased opinion is just as canon as the people who both made and own the series. You need to deal with the fact that he didn't say nothing in his manga about Tenshinhan's origins.That's the reason why there are databooks supervised by the creator. But,of course for you this is impossible to understand,therefore let's make a bunch of unofficial fan-made assumptions.This isn't the fanfic section.
"Not in the manga (the series of Japanese comic books created by Akira Toriyama himself) he wasn't. If you had even bothered to read everything in this debate, you would know that I was not even arguing about what goes in the article, as that's not my problem. What I AM concerned about though, is what's shown, stated and implied in the manga and the credibility of non-manga material. Tenshinhan was never stated or implied to have "alien ancestry" or any of that bullshit in the manga, so I sure as hell do NOT have to take it as fact just because you act like I should. People were replying to me first after I answered a normal question, I then responded back to them. And now you, Mr. Tough Guy, just randomly strolls in here giving it the Eddie Large like I have to care about what you say. Instead of being an ass, show me a link to an interview, like what I did before, where Akira Toriyama (yes, the man himself, NOT from the guidebook crew or especially you; I don't care about your own sentimental opinion) states that Tenshinhan has alien ancestry OR where he said the Daizenshuu was as canon as his manga. " Nobody cares about your wild fan-made interpretations about the origins of the characters just because you don't like an information. Listen to me ,you aren't the one who is going to choose what is true or not fanboy. There is a professional staff who worked with the author who decided to give us this official information under Toriyama's supervision. The best you can do is to repeat the same crap that it isn't stated in the manga. We already know that.
"There's nothing for me to "get over", Einstein; YOU'RE the one acting like a whiny brat here, not me. " Yes,there is fanboy, your assumptions are irrelevant. Official material provided by the owners of the franchise under Toriyama's supervision is the rule. You are just making assumptions taken from your ass. "Only if we just, you know, ignore the manga completely." I know that you aren't very bright,but there isn't information in the manga about it,period. this information doesn't contradict the manga at all.Plus,Toriyama wrote several parts of it like A-18 or A-17 backgrounds.
"As are yours, so pull your head out of your backside and lose the superiority complex. The Daizenshuu was created by Akira Toriyama's staff, not by Akira Toriyama himself. They are supplementary information released to appease a fanbase; not the be-all, end-all. Why should I have to care about their point of view on Akira Toriyama's work, especially when some pompous, self-righteous fool bellows at me, impling that I do so? I never said people cannot put Daizenshuu information on the article; people can do what they want and from when anime filler & FUNimation dub material are mentioned, all gloves are off regarding that matter. I'm saying that nobody absolutely has to take non-Akira Toriyama information as gospel; it can be ignored. "
As expected your rambling is full of inaccuracies. First of all, the anime wasn't supervised by Toriyama,however,he helped to create several fillers. Finally, it is official information provided from his staff under his supervision and approval and yes his staff knows a lot more about dbz than a random fanboy with transitory assumptions. they aren't guessing anything,they are just providing information taken from Toriyama who supervised the whole work.
"That's rich coming from the nameless guy who said I'm "acting like a ridiculous idiot" earlier. " But, you are acting like one doing pathetic ramblings with your assumptions and fan-made guesses.
"You mention this like the games are as canon as the manga or something." I mention this,because the article lies about this subject and draws conclusions like saying that : "The Daizenshuu mentions that Tien Shinhan is an alien and belongs to the race of Three Eyes (Triclops), though this may not necessarily be true." Baseless conclusion with an attempt to induce an opinion to the reader.
"This was referenced in one of the Dragon Ball: Raging Blast what-if stories, where after defeating Tien for the title of "strongest human", Krillin asks if he's even from Earth." In the game it is mentioned like in the daizenshuu that he has alien ancestry.That's my point.
"Technically he is a triclops, which simply means a three-eyed creature, though this has never been depicted as being indicative of another alien race and is more likely just a unique trait in a specific human being (himself). " More unsubstantiated presumptions. The article must say and only what is the official information about the character not making more assumptions based on nothing.
"Belongs to an alien race called Three Eyes = doesn't mean he is an alien = Earthling with alien ancestry = Tenshinhan is a hybrid?
Yeah right, if you say so. *rolls eyes*"
Wow just wow you are incredibly dumb aren't you?
Gohan is considered a sayajin and he is an hybrid.
What i'm saying,obviously is that his ancestry belongs to an alien race.LMFAO!
"How do you know that was the reason the "Tenshinhan has alien ancestry" information was put into the Daizenshuu?"
It seems obvious,but like you said everyone is free to believe otherwise.
"However, that still does not give you the right to try and shove their guesswork down my throat and have me accept it as %100 true, especially to confirm your sentimental opinion about Kuririn being stronger than Tenshinhan "nonsense" "
You are so delusional that you think that databooks supervised by Toriyama himself is a guesswork.LMFAO!
Considering that you aren't very bright let me give you the definition of supervision.
supervision-to be in charge of something and make sure that everything is done correctly,safely,etc
I don't have any sentimental opinion about Tenshinhan or this subject i just don't want to see ramdom baseless assumptions when there is Official information supervised by the author.I thought you believed that Tenshinhan was stronger,but feel free to change your opinion right away.
I agree that official information such as those given with the approval of the Creator takes presedence over ones opinion, so Tien has an alien ancsestry whether one wants to believe he, Akira himself approved of it or not is up to the person to decide however opinion does not undermine fact and the fact is Akira Toriyama did approve of it making it just as ligitimate as if he himself wrote it.
Also about the Shonen Jump interview 1 with Akira it does not flat out say he has no alien ancestry or that he does so these are ones own opinions and are not facts.Demon Prince Vegeta 07:44, March 20, 2010 (UTC)
Also about Tien's trivia of his ancestry it is opinionated to me and I vote for a change of only official info.
"I know how to sign it ,simply i didn't bother to do it.There is no doubt that you prefer to make always dumb assumptions.Typical from an irrational fanboy."
This "dumb assumptions" claim is laughable coming from the likes of you. I just go by information found in the manga and stated by Akira Toriyama himself. As opposed to being a tool like you, who makes up lame excuses to hype up non-Akira Toriyama information to be as canon or reliable as the original manga, just because it states a few things you happen to personally agree with.
"Yes,i know that interview and everyone with a brain can understand that Toriyama is not saying that he is human,he just explained the source of his inspiration to do the character."
And everyone with a brain can understand that Toriyama is not saying that he isn't a human, either.
"Unfortunately, I'm speaking with a fanboy who thinks his own fan-made biased opinion is just as canon as the people who both made and own the series. You need to deal with the fact that he didn't say nothing in his manga about Tenshinhan's origins.That's the reason why there are databooks supervised by the creator."
Again with your tiresome "fanboy" insults. What am I supposed to be a "fanboy" of, exactly? Of adhering to canon? Of following only what Akira Toriyama and the manga both state and show in regards to this series? Look, you need to deal with the fact that all conclusions drawn from Akira Toriyama's manga other then that from Akira Toriyama himself are all subjective. You just fail too hard to comprehend this.
"But,of course for you this is impossible to understand,therefore let's make a bunch of unofficial fan-made assumptions.This isn't the fanfic section."
Oh, it's not impossible for me to understand at all, especially when it's coming from the likes of you. There's just not that much factual information from you to understand here, since it's merely the typical, emotional rantings and ravings of a pro-Daizenshuu clown who believes that just because something is approved somehow has to mean it's as reliable or as canon as the original creation. xD
"Nobody cares about your wild fan-made interpretations about the origins of the characters just because you don't like an information."
So instead of providing a link to what I requested before (which was: "show me a link to an interview, like what I did before, where Akira Toriyama states that Tenshinhan has alien ancestry OR where he said the Daizenshuu was as canon as his manga"), you're just going to sit there and make excuses along with weak insults instead? Yeah, I should have known better than to expect you to even remotely back up what you say. And nobody cares about your outrageous assumptions about staff guesswork being as reliable or as canon as the author, either.
"Listen to me ,you aren't the one who is going to choose what is true or not fanboy." There is a professional staff who worked with the author who decided to give us this official information under Toriyama's supervision."
Listen to me, you do not get to decide if the staff's databooks are as canon or reliable as Akira Toriyama's manga, databook fanboy. Akira Toriyama never said the databooks were canon or as canon as his manga. So yes, it sure as hell can be ignored. Approval =/= supervision =/= own creation.
"The best you can do is to repeat the same crap that it isn't stated in the manga.We already know that."
You mean like how the best you can do is continue to repeat your "Toriyama supervised it therefore it's as canon as his own creation" nonsense pulled straight from your ass?
"Yes,there is fanboy, your assumptions are irrelevant. Official material provided by the owners of the franchise under Toriyama's supervision is the rule. You are just making assumptions taken from your ass."
Your sentimental fanboy opinion on "what the rule is" is irrelivent. Official material does NOT mean it was hand-created by the author himself, douche. You are just assuming this is the case because "oh it was supervised lulz".
"I know that you aren't very bright,but there isn't information in the manga about it,period."
I know that you aren't very intelligent, but the fact that Tenshinhan and Chaozu had to avoid Super Buu's HUMAN Genocide attack (you know, the chi attack created to destroy all humans on Earth bar Mr. Satan) to survive, speaks volumes:
Super Buu, after performing the Human Genocide attack, DBZ Vol.25, Viz, pg.31: "Humans all dead. Now I fight. Bring 'em out."
Chaozu, after surviving Super Buu's Human Genocide attack, DBZ Vol.25, Viz, pg.33: "Th-that was close..."
Tenshinhan, after surviving Super Buu's Human Genocide attack, DBZ Vol.25, Viz, pg.33: "Wh-what's going on up there...?"
Son Goku, after Super Buu performed the Human Genocide attack, DBZ Vol.25, Viz, pg.35: "What's wrong?"
East Kaioshin to Son Goku, after Super Buu performed the Human Genocide attack, DBZ Vol.25, Viz, pg.35: "...Nearly every human... ...Was just exterminated..."
There most certainly is information, period.
"this information doesn't contradict the manga at all."
"Plus,Toriyama wrote several parts of it like A-18 or A-17 backgrounds."
Writing "several parts of it" doesn't make the whole entire thing as canon or as reliable as the original manga.
"As expected your rambling is full of inaccuracies. First of all, the anime wasn't supervised by Toriyama,however,he helped to create several fillers.Finally, it is official information provided from his staff under his supervision and approval and yes his staff knows a lot more about dbz than a random fanboy with transitory assumptions. they aren't guessing anything,they are just providing information taken from Toriyama who supervised the whole work."
Nice assumption-making skills, but no. First of all, I never said it wasn't official, I said it wasn't as reliable or as canon as the manga, the original source created by Akira Toriyama HIMSELF. Secondly, what is the original source that his staff base their conclusions off of? The manga, a source you keep repeatedly whining has no information on this issue (which it certainly does). His staff assuming that Tenshinhan has alien ancestry when the manga supports this in NO kind of way is guesswork, Daizenshuu lover. Deal with it. And participation doesn't mean he "created everything".
"But, you are acting like one doing pathetic ramblings with your assumptions and fan-made guesses."
Sorry but no, I'm not acting like one. You're the one making the pitiful repeated assumptions that the Daizenshuu is as canon as Akira Toriyama's manga, and that the whole thing is as reliable as the manga just because "Toriyama approved it". Not to mention you feeling the need to kick off the insults in the first place to help try and get your (weak) point across.
"I mention this,because the article lies about this subject and draws conclusions like saying that : "The Daizenshuu mentions that Tien Shinhan is an alien and belongs to the race of Three Eyes (Triclops), though this may not necessarily be true." Baseless conclusion with an attempt to induce an opinion to the reader.
"This was referenced in one of the Dragon Ball: Raging Blast what-if stories, where after defeating Tien for the title of "strongest human", Krillin asks if he's even from Earth." In the game it is mentioned like in the daizenshuu that he has alien ancestry.That's my point.
"Technically he is a triclops, which simply means a three-eyed creature, though this has never been depicted as being indicative of another alien race and is more likely just a unique trait in a specific human being (himself). " More unsubstantiated presumptions. The article must say and only what is the official information about the character not making more assumptions based on nothing."
So if you see something that you feel is an assumption or presumption placed on the article, then just edit it or request for there to be a source. And again, just for clarification, I never said databook information mustn't go on the article. Anything and everything "official" does anyway, including FUNimation material. Still doesn't make it equal to the manga.
"Wow just wow you are incredibly dumb aren't you? Gohan is considered a sayajin and he is an hybrid. What i'm saying,obviously is that his ancestry belongs to an alien race.LMFAO!"
Man, I didn't think it was actually possible for somebody to be this stupid. If Tenshinhan has "ancestry belonging to an alien race", he obviously isn't entirely human, is he? Which is what's being argued here.LMFAO!
"It seems obvious,"
"but like you said everyone is free to believe otherwise."
"You are so delusional that you think that databooks supervised by Toriyama himself is a guesswork.LMFAO!"
Oh LOL. This "delusional" claim is simply rich coming from you. Conclusions on a subject drawn by people using the original source material created by somebody else, which you constantly whinge "has no information on this issue" is published guesswork. Pure and simple. Only Akira Toriyama knows for 100% certain the answers regarding his manga, period. Not me, not a random assbag like you, not Toei Animation, not the databooks crew, not any other fan, just Akira Toriyama himself. Not sure why your brain has such trouble understanding this.
"Considering that you aren't very bright let me give you the definition of supervision. supervision-to be in charge of something and make sure that everything is done correctly,safely,etc"
Considering that you appear pretty mentally challenged, let me give you the definition of supervision:
"su·per·vi·sion (spr-vzhn) n. The act, process, or function of supervising.
Thesaurus Noun 1. supervision - management by overseeing the performance or operation of a person or group Synonyms: superintendence, supervising, oversight"
Yeah, I'd rather take this definition of "supervision" over whatever comes from an irrational databook fanboy such as yourself. And I already knew what "supervison" meant, and it certainly doesn't mean creation.
"I don't have any sentimental opinion about Tenshinhan or this subject"
You stating that the notion of Kuririn being stronger than Tenshinhan was "nonsense" in addition to your insults throughout this argument, certainly implied it to me.
"i just don't want to see ramdom baseless assumptions"
Then I suggest you stop replying, since your replies contain them.
"when there is Official information supervised by the author."
Which was not stated or created by the author himself, unlike what was shown and implied (e.g. the "Human Genocide" case) in the manga.
"I thought you believed that Tenshinhan was stronger,"
I do, but I don't find the idea of Kuririn being stronger than him "nonsense" at all.
I wasn't changing my opinion at all. I was just stating what the manga did. The quote can still be interpreted differently depending on who reads it. - KneeKicker 22:18, April 15, 2010 (UTC)
movie appearances Edit
why are none of them mentioned in the article?
- Because no one has had the time and initiative to write them yet. ;-) -- 01:01, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
King Kai Training Edit
- No, he does not. -- .10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 11:29, September 9, 2009 (UTC)
- He doesn't use it because not even king kai at his power level can use the kaoi ken goku is the only person with the cabability to use the genki dama or kaoiken techniques.
Powers/ abilities Edit
Regeneration? can humans regenerate? I recall in the saga where they are fighting Nappa he says "You just wait till it grows back!" in reference to his missing arm.
If so it would seem to me that his ability to regenerate is slower to the regeneration powers that Namekians posses.
Dragula42 22:26, October 13, 2009 (UTC) Dragula42
- It's possible for Tien to regenerate, but I don't know if he's a human, he may very well be a mutant in terms of his DNA (that would explain the third eye). But for informational purposes, he is noted as human. - 00:40, October 15, 2009 (UTC)
- Thank you, much appreciated.Dragula42Dragula42
- No he can't regenerate, he was just saying that. He obtained the third eye by intense meditation, so he isn't a mutant.
No, Tenshinhan cannot regenerate. That "You just wait till it grows back!" line was only in the Sabat/Ocean Dub version of the anime, and was never mentioned anywhere else. Also, I recommend scrolling up for explanations as to why he's a human (for anyone in doubt of him being a human). - KneeKicker 23:23, November 14, 2009 (UTC)
Although he is a human with alien anscestry he has never been shown the ability to regenerate a good example of this is when Cyborg Tao slashed him giving him his trademark scar he never regenerated from it but rather healed through a senzu bean. Krillin was probably talking about him regaining his arm through the Dragon Balls.
Also I vote for regeneration to be taken out of his technique/abilities list as it has never been shown or proven anyone else agree?Rhm 89 06:36, June 4, 2010 (UTC)
Also the Four Witches Technique does not regenerate Tien's lost arm but rather creates a new one for a limited amount of time this would not explain how he gained his arm permanetly back again.Rhm 89 07:18, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
- If it's said in the anime, and not stated false in a more official source, then we take it to be true. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 08:47, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
Even if it were be proven to be contradictory? It at least should be stated as contradictory as I can prove to be a dubbing error on their part.Rhm 89 08:59, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
- You've brought up no instances of it being stated that Tien cannot grow back an arm, while there is ample evidence that he can, including him growing arms, and stating that he can regrow an arm. He likely has a similar ability to Piccolo, where he can only regenerate when his energy is very high, which it was not after fighting Tao. Another possibility is that he wanted to keep the scar as a reminder. Yet another is that the scar was doing him no harm, so he never bothered.
- Since we cannot definitively rule all of these out, we cannot be sure that it is a contradiction or a dubbing error. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 09:06, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
Does it state emphatically that he knows regeneration? If the answer is no than it is an assumption he regenerated due to an unique ability/Trait/technique and not by another mode or method.
Also if you click on the regeneration page you will find an article stating this dubbing error which you may or may not want to fix.Rhm 89 09:34, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
- He states that he can grow his arm back, and he is shown growing arms, don't know what else you want. I'll check out the regeneration page, thanks for the tip. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 09:41, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
Just because he can grow arms one mustn't assume he can regenerate also did he say in what way he can grow his arm back? Then one is assuming it is through a regeneration similar to Piccolo's when the word regenerate isn't even used, could it be a possibility that he meant he can grow it back due to a wish on the Dragon Balls or some other method?Rhm 89 09:48, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
- It is heavily implied, and used earlier, during Dragon Ball. Do you honestly think that Tien was talking about fighting Nappa again in 3 years, after having wished back his two comrades, and then waiting the extra year for the Dragon Balls to be used again? It would have been very obvious to someone like Tien that in three years (more likely by the end of the day), at least one of he and Nappa would already be dead. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 09:58, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
Again you seem to be assuming as you clearly didn't answer the whole question also if your reffering to the four witches technique it is not regeneration but a momentary addition.
Again could he have meant by an unknown method?, I didn't assume he was going to use the Dragon Balls for this purpose but gave it only as a possibilty, he would not have known if he would have died or survived, he may have been able to last until Goku came or he may have had the idea Krillin had of Nameks Dragon.
Again I am not assuming that he can't regenerate but that their is not enough proof and I am not assuming he was going to wish it back but gave it as a potential.
Thanks for talking with me I enjoy all of this and I'm sorry if I sounded mean or anything, to find answers one must ask difficult questions you know.Rhm 89 10:35, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
- I am not assuming anything, and you seem to be assuming that the four witches technique cannot be used to create permanent limbs. It may have that use, and if it didn't use to, perhaps Tien created a new version. Slight alterations of a technique by a martial arts master seem much more likely that Tien summoning a deity three years later, or assuming that he could travel to an unknown planet millions of miles away. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 11:07, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
Didn't you watch Dragon Ball? He could not even sustain it during a match against Goku if he could he would have kept it as he was in a submission hold with his extra arms only helping him out.
Also even if he did create a new variation, when exactly did he regenerate? Was it when he was on Earth dead or after he already gained a complete body as Chiaotzu and Guldo did (with a brand new head) in the after life? As he didn't need or have the chance to as he was afforded a body.
Also it is more likely that a method such as this was talked about instead of a technique that was given no indication as being real in the Dragon Ball World.Rhm 89 05:25, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
- Yes, I watched all the Dragon Ball series, did you? Tien grew some arms, and then later said that he could regrow lost ones. Done deal. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 06:06, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
Really!!!! Please give me the episode and dub so I can study this more (now we may be or may not be getting some where that is why I love these talks)Rhm 89 06:15, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
- The line is "You just wait till it grows back!". Tien has previously shown the ability to grow arms. You haven't presented any new information other than highly outlandish theories (such as a wish from any set of Dragon Balls), and I'm closing this topic. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 06:24, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
I thought you meant Dragon Ball and not Dragon Ball Z (as is stated here in America) and he never said he could regenerate nor did you give an indication of when as you are clearly unable to.Rhm 89 06:30, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
- It's directly after Nappa takes his arm off, looks like you are wrong. Please move on. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 07:19, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
You are in error as he died armless and he was afforded a full body as I have shown in the after life.Rhm 89 07:30, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
- No, you're wrong, I'm stating a quote, not my opinion. If you think quotes from the anime are not something that we use, then please reread our manual of style. If you can't deal with the anime being a source, then you'll have to bring that up elsewhere. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 07:40, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
A qoute that doesn't have Tien stating he can regenerate through an ability/Technique/ but rather it is your opinion that he stated he can grow his arm through this means.
Also I clearly know this quote and am not saying it isn't a valid quote but rather it is being used to prove something it never emphatically states. Especially when under his abilities it says he regenerated his arm after Nappa severed it which is true but why is it under his abilities page when it isn't shown emphatically he regenerated his arm through a technique/ability as if it is a fact and not a possibility?Rhm 89 07:59, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
- The way you're using the word "emphatically" doesn't make sense in context, but I think I understand what you're saying. It is stated as a fact because Tien had no reason to be lying. If there was any reason to think he was lying, then it would only be a possibility. Keep in mind the article actually just says that he is able to, and not that he does. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 08:32, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
Lying about what that he can regenerate? The fact is he never says that he can by using an ability. Also he never states that he is able to by using an ability yet it is under his abilities section as if it is a fact he regenerated it by an ability. (I got a message stating that I won't be able to edit soon so thank you for the talk I will talk to you more tomorrow or later).
- He says he can do it, and there's hard evidence (his earlier technique) showing that he can do so. I'm done discussing this, the page stays as is. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 09:02, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
He doesn't say he can he says "You just wait until it grows back" he did not say he has an ability to make it grow back nor how he is going to grow it back, and the four witches technique proves nothing in the same vain that Microevolution does not prove Macroevolution.
So I will end it here as we have reached an impasse which is a shame since I believe that this site should try it's best to attain truth not opinion.
But I thank God for the ability of talking here so that those who read this may chose for themselves.
THE END!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Rhm 89 09:23, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
- Your clutching at straws here, 10X Kamehameha is correct 14:59, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
No you are, oh and it would take 2 years for Tien to wish back his arm not three as Chiaotzu was wished back once with the Dragon Balls of Earth and can't ever be wished back by them again so again you clearly show your error.Rhm 89 20:08, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
- Do you really think that they would waste a wish, to re grow Tien's arm, when there are many people to wish back? 20:09, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
What many people? Only Yamcha and Chiaotzu were dead at the time and only Yamcha of the two dead could have been wished back (Tien could not have known Piccolo was going to die).Rhm 89 05:52, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
- Nappa also killed like hundreds of soldiers, check out the episodes dude. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 06:08, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
I thought he was referring only to the Z-fighters but either way one wish to restore the lives of those killed by Nappa since his arrival on Earth excluding Chiaotzu would suffice. And did they not go to Namek to revive their friends who died in the battle with Nappa and not for all the other people who Nappa killed?Rhm 89 06:22, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
- Tien wasn't planning to wish his arm back in two years, that's outrageous. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 07:02, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
It is relevant as I have proven they may have just wished back one of the Z-fighters with the wish instead of all the humans Nappa killed. You are right though it wasn't needed to prove my point, either way I have proven that it would take just one wish.
Also why is it outrageous? Tien would have had no other option then to wait. What is outrageous is suggesting Tien has an ability that may not even exist (as he never says he has an ability to regenerate) to regenerate his arm rather than a simple known to exist in the Dragon Ball Universe solution the Dragon Balls yet you say it like a fact when it is in truth an opinion.
- I don't know what ability you think doesn't exist, but this topic was originally about regeneration, an ability shown many times throughout the series, and one that Tien possesses. Please acknowledge that there are now 2 users actively telling you that you are mistaken, plus one more above, and a fourth that reverted your edit earlier. When four people disagree with you, and you are totally alone in your opinion, you might consider taking a step back and considering why that is. In any case, this topic is closed, a consensus has been reached, and I will no longer be discussing this topic. Sorry if you disagree with the community on this one, but that is how wikia sites function. Finding a consensus among knowledgeable fans is the best way to find the truth in matters such as these, and that is what we have done. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 08:34, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
Consensus never undermines fact and as I said before the fact is he never said he can regenerate or has the ability to do so but as we have ventured both to find truth may we wish each other the best luck in finding it.
May we both agree to disagree and both agree to end it here for this conversation has led to many roads I guess I can say but both of us have reached dead ends with one another.
This however I will say though we have misunderstood each other and still may not understand each other I hope that we may respect each other and sorry for everything this long conversation and for these winding roads I put us through.Rhm 89 09:59, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
Wow! I haven't been here in a while, I never expected it to be such a long conversation, in any case the reason I thought it was an ability and not the dragonballs is because the word "grow" which implied to me an ability. In any case at the time they Z Fighters didn't even know that the Namekian Dragonballs had 3 wishes, which in the mind of the Z Fighters would of left them with only one wish.Dragula42 21:03, September 27, 2011 (UTC)Dragula42
Third Eye!!!!!! Edit
Why is it stated that it is more likely his third eye is a unique trait in a human in his trivia section. Isn't it more likely that Akira approving his alien anscestry more likely right? I vote for this to be removed as it is an opinionated statement not agreeable to the more likely correct Daizenshuu approved by the creator himself. It should be restated altogether.Rhm 89 06:54, June 4, 2010 (UTC)
- Daizenshuu was not written or overseen by Toriyama, it merely has an interview with him as one of its features. Tien is stated to be a human several times during the anime, which a preferred source to guidebooks (see our manual of style for more information on preferred sources). -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 07:17, June 4, 2010 (UTC)
Even if this is so this still does not answer the question of why is it more likely it is a unique trait in a human rather than him being from an alien anscestry when more trustworthy source states explicitely that he has his third eye due to him being an anscester of an alien race? Isn't it more likely that that the authors of the Daizenshuu are correct than the assumption that they are most likely not correct? Rhm 89 06:58, June 5, 2010 (UTC)
- They are guessing either way, so we go with the anime. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 08:22, June 5, 2010 (UTC)
- Actually,Toriyama wrote several parts in the Daizenshuu and he supervised and approved the guides.
- I don't think anyone is guessing anything.
- Tenshinhan is never stated to be 100% human.
- The anime staff also helped to write the guidebooks.
- The article should say that according to the Daizenshuu 4 and 7 Tenshinhan descends from an alien race called
- "Three Eyes aliens".Manga or the original japanese anime never said anything about Ten's ancestry.
- Even several videogames state that the character descends from an alien race
Third Strongest Human!!!!!! Edit
This text seems corrupt or is atleast missing a very important detail as it says Tien was taken over as the strongest by Majuub however if Majuub is the strongest then he clearely could not have taken Tiens place as it states Tien is the third strongest and here lies the mystery. I vote for a more complete text.
10x Kamehameha at least we agree 100% on one thing Krillin is not and could never possibly be stronger than Tien in the Buu Saga I just said this to keep from any bias. However if not Krillin or Uub as he fused with Buu than why is Tien #3 and not #2 on the biography page?Rhm 89 07:34, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
- I think whoever wrote that was thinking: 1=Uub, 2=Majuub, 3=Tien, which clearly doesn't make sense, because Uub and Majuub never exists at the same time, which would mean the Tien is indeed the second strongest as of the arrival of Uub into the series. However, this is also assuming that Majuub is still human... Assuming that Majuub is human, Tien is indeed second. I'll change the article accordingly.-- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 07:41, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
- majuub is 0,5 majin and 0,5 human so can we call him a human? i think tien is the second strongest human 1. uub 2. tien, actually uub doesn't even deserve to be called a human because he is a recreation of buu so he is not born just as all normal humans
Uub was born human his physical composition is human though he may not have been naturally born at first as a human he still is human and after fusing with Buu it is unknown if he became part Majin or is all human but because he stayed with the physical composition as a human and there is no 100% proof saying he is part Majin we cannot assume such so he stays classified as a humanRhm 89 10:18, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
- Uub is human, but Majuub is half Majin (1 part human + 1 part Majin). -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 11:09, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
Although in theory I agree with the order that you have placed the strongest humans in, can we really say who is stronger, without speculating? I know that 10X probably has reasoning, I was just wondering20:31, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
- Uub is as strong as Kid Buu, who is easily stronger than Tien, plus he gos through all the training with Goku. Tien and Krillin were probably close in terms of power after the Cell Games, but Tien trained nonstop from then on, while Krillin chose to start a family instead. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 21:31, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
Your right he is part Majin my bad (I haven't studied about him for years or Gt but now I'm completly unrusty as I spent today studying and watching) SorryRhm 89 05:53, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
So actually we all agree tien is the second strongest human?
- I know what your saying 10X Kamehameha, I totally agree in my opinion that Tien is stronger, but do we have to have sources to include that on the page? 14:23, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
Why is everyone just assuming that Uub is stronger than Tien? Tien has shown amazing strength, rivaling that of a Super Saiyan when fighting Semi-Perfect Cell (proving to hold him off for a considerable amount of time with his Neo Tri-Beam while Android 16 was defeated easily). After this, Tien continues to train until the end of Dragon Ball Z. Goku then fights Uub in the World Tournament and they are evenly matched. HOWEVER, Goku fights without even powering up to Super Saiyan. With knowledge that Super Saiyan is a x50 boost to power level and Super Saiyan 2 is a x100 boost (both pieces of information coming from credible sources), it is safe to say that Goku is fighting far below his maximum power level, and also showing that Uub has a long ways to go before reaching the power level of Kid Buu. Given this information, you can't simply assume that Uub is stronger. -Kaonohiokala 3:51 PM, June 28, 2010 (HST)
- Yes but, at the start of GT, we see that Uub has become nearly as strong as Goku, since their training is done. Later he also gives Baby a very fair fight 07:11, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
Yes, Uub is capable of matching Goku in strength, but by this time, Tien hasn't faced off with anyone since Super Buu, however we do know that Tien has trained non-stop since after the Cell Games. So you can't just say "Uub is nearly as strong as Goku and gives Baby a fair fight" as the reason that he's stronger than Tien. The correct answer would be that we don't know who the strongest human is, we can't just appoint a character to the "Strongest Human" title without evidence. -Kaonohiokala 6:39 PM, July 15, 2010 (HST)
Wow, there is a lot of speculation on this page. I agree that Tenshinhan was probably stronger than Kuririn, but it is still not a sure thing that one is stronger than the other. I understand you're thinking that Ten is stronger, but it isn't a sure thing. The only one who knows is Akira Toriyama. It is known that he is the strongest human up until the battle with the Saiyajins, but then it is completely unknown as they never fight one another, have their battle powers stated (except for Kuririn on Namek), nor does any other character, in either dialogue nor written text, state that one is stronger than the other by the end of the series. I agree that Tenshinhan is probably stronger, but for all we know Yamucha could be the strongest at the end...My vote is for an edit.
- Tien is stronger than Yamcha in the Saiyan Saga, then they undergo the same training with King Kai. After Cell, Yamcha and Krillin both give up fighting, while Tien continues to train to become stronger for the rest of his life. It's not possible for two humans doing nothing to somehow gain power and surpass another human as powerful as Tien who is training nonstop for decades. It's not speculation, it's perfectly sound reasoning. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 11:09, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
Thats all good and fine, but if one is to say that then we can also speculate that Chaozu is the strongest human, since he trained with Tenshinhan the whole time, but we know this probably isn't true, but it doesn't change the fact that it is possible. You are correct, your logic is very quite understandable, but that does not make it fact. Toriyama could have made whomever he wished the strongest Earthling, and we will not know who truely is the strongest human unless he specifies on the matter someday. Your thoughts on the matter work perfectly for most real world situations, unfortunatley we are dealing with a work of fiction where anything is possible. While you can believe that he is the strongest (and I too feel this way), it doesn't make stating him to be the strongest an accurate fact.
- First off, please sign all posts on talk pages, it's a formality that helps us keep track of who's saying what and such. Also, Chiaotzu is never nearly as strong as Tien, and undergoes the same training as him for all of the series, so that doesn't follow. Are there any other humans that we can think of that might have been as strong as him? I don't recall, but it's a legitimate query. Also, facts are just what everyone (or nearly everyone) believes. It's for that reason that all wikia/wikipedia sites consider anything to be true so long as it can be either based off a reliable source or agreed upon by the editing community. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 11:45, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
Hi, his name is actually Tenshinhan not Tien Shinhan, can you guys correct this?
- Please see the forum regarding choice of names. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 22:56, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
- Right, and we do have the manga name listed in the infobox, it's just that we name the articles using the anime names. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 14:41, July 26, 2010 (UTC)
The third eye's origin Edit
- Why do you say so? The reference seem obvious to me. Both were a three-eyed man who were Son Goku's rival who later became a friend. Do you have some sort of reason? Has Toriyama explicitly said so? 188.8.131.52 12:45, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
- Im pretty sure Tien`s look came from some ideas from journey to the west but i am saying he is not based off one of the characters from journey to the west. And, if you look at the main page it has did u know goku puar oolong bulma and yamcha are based off characters in journey to the west. and yes in one interview with Akira he was asked Whats up with the third eye on Tien and he explained it came from extreme meditation. -- 16:26, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
Well, to be fair TienShinhan88, the main page says those four are based off the MAIN characters of Journey to the West, so it is always possible that other characters have connections there as well. However, with that said, Tien has never been stated to be Erlang Shen by Toriyama or any producer. A great catch though! I'm impressed that another user on here has actually read through the Chinese Epic. 16:31, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
- lol no I've never read the actual novel, but I watched the TV show daily when I was a boy. It was on during the evening right after Dragonball... BTW yes Erlang was also born a human, he became a god after studying under a master with magical powers. His third eye was some sort of jutsu that he acquired from him. In one episode he actually lost his third eye before getting it back... So~ 184.108.40.206 11:40, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
- Right, like I`ve been trying to say I`m shure Tien`s looks and many ideas for his character came from journey to the west, But it`s never been stated he actually WAS a character from journey to the west. -- 14:03, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
Tien Introduced Some of the Most Used Techniques in the SeriesEdit
I think it would be good to add this. Afterall, there is some truth to it. He introduced telepathy, flying, Solar Flare, the Multi Form Technique and many other Techniques to the Manga. Now that I think of it, I'm pretty sure he was even the first one to use a Kia.220.127.116.11 05:55, February 15, 2011 (UTC)
Agreed. Ripto22475 02:21, September 13, 2011 (UTC)
Can we really say that he retired from fighting? He did continue his training, but he never said that he'd retired from fighting. This is further proven by his showing up to fight Buu.18.104.22.168 05:20, March 9, 2011 (UTC)
- I think he announced that he couldn't help the Z fighters anymore so he was going to stop fighting. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 05:30, March 9, 2011 (UTC)
who do yall think is stonger tien (buu saga) or Frieza?
Hmm... does not seem like a article topic, but I would have to assume Tien since he has been training non stop, and the fact he was able to hold off semi perfect cell who is considerabley stronger than Frieza. Remember to sign your post as well. Ripto22475 02:20, September 13, 2011 (UTC)
The current quote we have now, is really simple and plain, and lets the people who watch Dragonball see Tien as a weakling compared to the others, while the newer one shows his heroic side in which he is willing to sacrifice himself for the people of Earth. Who agrees in changing the current quote?
"I might just be a pothole in the road to you big guy, but it's going to be one heck of a deep pothole!"
"This is not about me. Or rather, this is about the bad things in my life that made me no better than King Piccolo. This is about atonement. And I only hope it's enough. Goodbye, my friends."
The change seems like a good one, but limit the explanation afterward please. Also, it is indeed confusing with the "Goodbye" part, and the only explanation would be a major spoiler. I would suggest:
"This is not about me. Or rather, this is about the bad things in my life that made me no better than King Piccolo. This is about atonement. And I only hope it's enough."
- I already limited the added sentence as much as possible. I agree about the Goodbye part here, so no further explanation who he is talking to? - True SaiyanWarriors 10:38, April 1, 2012 (UTC)
Well the goal of the quote is to give the reader a taste of the character's personality or style, rather than describe any specific event. If saying that he is talking to his friends makes his personality clearer, then we can add it. I'm not certain that it does, as this can be more of a soliloquy and still make sense. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 23:28, April 1, 2012 (UTC)
- It does show that he cares for his friends, (also seen when Chiaotzu killed himself) he wants to say goodbye, because he's planning to use the Evil Containment Wave, and he probably thinks he will die from using it. So it does his reflection towards others in a way too. - True SaiyanWarriors 11:17, April 2, 2012 (UTC)
I would disagree about it showing that he cares for his friends, at least no more than for any other living thing (again, only based on this particular action, he obviously cares for his friends as shown at other times). I think that he is doing it to save the world, rather than just his close friends. His motivation in my eyes is to redeem himself and atone for his sins by sacrificing himself. According to the quote, the redemption is the motivation, and the saying goodbye to his friends seems circumstantial. For instance, if he were surrounded by innocent bystanders, his actions were certainly have been the same. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 00:27, April 3, 2012 (UTC)
- Agreed with most of this, I only meant that he wanted to say a proper goodbye to them, before dying. And I have to disagree at your last statement. :P Because I don't think Tien would have said Goodbye innocent bystanders to the people who could have been watching the battle. Btw the current quote at his page is good as it is at the moment not? My opinion is to let it stay like this, and then leave the extra sentences away. - True SaiyanWarriors 06:55, April 3, 2012 (UTC)
Lol, alternate versions of Tien's goodbye: "Goodbye child I don't know!" "Goodbye creepy floating puppet that follows me!" "Goodbye mud!" "Gooodbye King Pic— hey, wait a minute...." -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 01:51, April 4, 2012 (UTC)
He is in fact called Tien Shinhan in Dragon Ball The User Who Has Long Since Forgotten His Name 04:02, April 15, 2012 (UTC)
Not the Strongest EarthlingEdit
A recent interview with Toryama states that Krillin is the strongest Earthling. It's from the TV Anime Guide: Dragon Ball Tenka’ichi Densetsu. The section talking about this is about a quarter of the way down this page- http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/tenkaichi-densetsu-toriyama-koyama-nozawa/ Any objections to me adding this to the page? Kamiccolo9 (talk) 02:01, March 29, 2013 (UTC)
- The interview itself doesn't state what time period he's talking about, but it's being mentioned in the context of him being married to 18, so I believe it's safe to assume it's at least after the Cell Games. Without a specific time frame, I can understand not placing it in the article itself, but would it be okay to add the quote to the trivia on either Krillin or Tien's page? [[Special:Contributions/22.214.171.124|Kamiccolo9 (talk) 02:01, March 29, 2013 (UTC)]]
- http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/User:Jeangabin666, Any particular reason you removed this? Kamiccolo9 (talk) 17:13, March 29, 2013 (UTC)
- This is not the place to say Krillin is the strongest Earthling if the source doesn't even compare him to any other characters. And Tien is not even considered as an Earthling by Koyama. Also, you don't even provide the source. You have to tell where the interview you use as a reference was published. In a case like this, why not adding this trivia to all the Earthlings page, why just Tien? If the source doesn't mention Tien, we don't add this on Tien's article. 17:24, March 29, 2013 (UTC)
- I added it on Tien's article because the article makes it a point to mention the Krillin/Tien debate in the power level section. Tien is considered an Earthling with "distant alien ancestry," and is listed alongside the Earthlings in the Daizenshuu, which is where the alien ancestry comes from in the first place, so it seems apparent that the authors consider him an Earthling. I made sure to check and see if it was ok before adding it, and was approved, so I'm not really seeing the problem here. I did provide a source, but you were right about me not including it in the trivia, that's my bad.—This unsigned comment was made by Kamiccolo9 (talk • contribs) .
- Then it has to be added in the Power Level section since it's this section that conpare both characters. 17:42, March 29, 2013 (UTC)
- The source linked above seems fine. It states that when Krillin marries 18 (not stated, but must be the case), he is the strongest Earthling. I agree with Jean that this is not conclusive in terms of Tien, since Tien is sometimes referred to as an alien. I think the proper place for this quote is probably the Krillin page under power, and specifically including a note that Tien may not be accounted for. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 18:43, March 29, 2013 (UTC)
I've been thinking about adding a note in the Trivia section that Tien is only referred to as "Tien Shinhan" during Dragon Ball, for the rest of the anime series (Dragon Ball Z, GT and the movies) he is simply called "Tien". Would this be something worth adding? Or is it just so trivial that it would be better to just not add it at all? Or was this simply a choice that FUNimation made when they were dubbing the series? Super Shmevan (talk) 03:12, April 22, 2013 (UTC)