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    • Mystic Gohan destroys.

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    • There's really no way to tell how much Goku improved, if he improved at all. Considering Ultimate Gohan's ridiculous advantage over him in the Buu Arc, I'm assuming he one-shots.

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    • Hard to tell, primarily because the movie and anime tell it way differently.


      In the movie version one could argue Gohan was closer to pre-angry SSJ2 Vegeta than he was to SSJ3 Goku... As in, he was actually that much weaker. But whether that comes from Goku growing that much stronger or Gohan growing that much weaker is hard to tell.


      The deal's a little different in the anime version however.


      Since Ultimate Gohan in the Buu Saga was at peak power, I'd say he would take it still.

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    • I thought BoG Gohan had started slacking while BoG Goku kept rigorous training. But considering Ultimate Gohan stomped Super Buu (who was stronger than SSJ3 Goku). Gohan probably still takes this.

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    • Stryzzar wrote: I thought BoG Gohan had started slacking while BoG Goku kept rigorous training. But considering Ultimate Gohan stomped Super Buu (who was stronger than SSJ3 Goku). Gohan probably still takes this.

      Goku wasn't lagging to far behind gohan in the buu saga and since goku got a zenkai after his fight with kid buu combining this with training should make goku have an edge against buu saga gohan

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    • But it's still a very big jump. To put it in perspective, SSJ3 Gotenks and Super Buu were stronger than SSJ3 Goku (by his own admission). Then we have Ultimate Gohan who was a whole tier above Super Buu (Buu couldn't even hurt him in the slightest).

      We're talking like a jump from Android 19 to Super Perfect Cell level here.

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    • Creeperman129 wrote:
      Mystic Gohan gets destroyed.

      Fixed

      Goku handled better than Gohan againts Birus

      Goku owns Gohan

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    • Eww, plz no father son incest.

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    • Gojiran
      Gojiran removed this reply because:
      ehhhh
      02:11, March 2, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • No. Kid Buu is not stronger than Super Buu. He just isn't. Goku said that SSJ Gotenks could beat the Fat Buu he fought. Then take into account the fact that Goten and Trunks trained in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, Gotenks unlocked Super Saiyan 3 AND that Ultimate Gohan is at least 1.5X stronger than that (because he destroyed Super Buu in his fight, who is relative to SSJ3 Gotenks). 

      And think for a second. If Goku was stronger than all of Super Buu's forms, then why did he choose to fuse with Gohan against Buutenks? Why did he choose to fuse with Vegeta to form Vegito? And by saying that Kid Buu > Buuhan, you are also implying that Vegito is, at best, just a little stronger than Goku, which would make no logical sense.

      You can argue that Goku improved by a good amount at the start of BoG, but Super Buu is obviously stronger than Kid Buu. That is the most logical conclusion.

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    • I never said nor implied Goku was stronger than all of Super Buu's forms, I only directed towards Super Buu's default form only, as well as Kid Buu being stronger than Super Buu in his default form, or at least equal to it. Of course with either Gotenks or both Gotenks and Ultimate Gohan absorbed, Super Buu is far stronger than Kid Buu. Nor did I ever imply Vegito was slightly stronger than Goku either at all.

      I suppose Goku had improved a good amount, but my whole point is that Ultimate Gohan-BOG could possibly defeat Goku in his Super Saiyan 3 form-BOG because Ultimate Gohan doesn't have any of the strains that Super Saiyan 3 has. That, and I feel Gohan would only lose very little of his unlocked potential in that year gap from the Peaceful Saga to the beginning of Super.

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    • But...you said "And isn't Kid Buu stronger than all of Super Buu's forms?", didn't you? Since Goku is relative to Kid Buu, you were basically implying that. Bah, whatever. Misinterpreted, I guess. I do that sometimes. Sorry :P.

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    • Apologies. I meant to edit that out. I meant to say than just Super Buu's default form rather than all of his forms, but I didn't imply any of what you claimed for me to imply. If I did, I would have pointed it out in my original comment, honest.

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    • I'll just copy paste my response from an earlier thread.

      SSJ3 Gotenks was stronger than SSJ3 Goku, which Goku himself confirmed.

      SSJ3 Gotenks was nearly equal in power to Super Buu, which Piccolo even commented by saying this was the first time Buu felt his power was rivaled.

      That along with the fact that Goku thought he couldn't beat Super Buu, all suggest Goku overall was weaker than Super Buu.

      The only version of Buu that Goku was clearly stronger than was the original Fat Buu. Goku was either equal or slightly weaker than Kid Buu, while a fair bit weaker than Super Buu.

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    • Creeperman129 wrote:
      No. Kid Buu is not stronger than Super Buu. He just isn't. Goku said that SSJ Gotenks could beat the Fat Buu he fought. Then take into account the fact that Goten and Trunks trained in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, Gotenks unlocked Super Saiyan 3 AND that Ultimate Gohan is at least 1.5X stronger than that (because he destroyed Super Buu in his fight, who is relative to SSJ3 Gotenks). 

      And think for a second. If Goku was stronger than all of Super Buu's forms, then why did he choose to fuse with Gohan against Buutenks? Why did he choose to fuse with Vegeta to form Vegito? And by saying that Kid Buu > Buuhan, you are also implying that Vegito is, at best, just a little stronger than Goku, which would make no logical sense.

      You can argue that Goku improved by a good amount at the start of BoG, but Super Buu is obviously stronger than Kid Buu. That is the most logical conclusion.


      Tell that to toy ani may shin buddy

      Yeah, Pure Buu is ONE of the WEAKEST Buus in the manga, but in the ANIME, he's the strongest

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    • I wouldn't say he's the weakest. He's still stronger than Fat Buu and Thin Buu in the manga. I only recall Super Buu and Super Buu's absorptions being stronger.

      No idea about Ultra Buu though. He's non-canon filler so screw him.

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    • Stryzzar wrote:
      I wouldn't say he's the weakest. He's still stronger than Fat Buu and Thin Buu in the manga.

      Really? i could sworn pure evil Buu is stronger than Pure Buu, and toriyama made it so Goku and Vegeta had a chance

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    • If you mean Fat Buu did better in the fight against Kid Buu than Thin Buu, I'd chalk that up to that Fat Buu being stronger.

      Remember that SSJ3 Goku was almost stomping Fat Buu before he split up, but he had trouble fighting Kid Buu. Thin Buu was confirmed by several characters to be much weaker than original Fat Buu (before the split). So the only logical explanation is the Buu that fought Thin Buu was weaker than the Buu that fought Kid Buu.

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    • ssj3 goku was having trouble fighting kid buu because he couldn't use the full power of the form after being brought back to life

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    • Even so, it was quite clear that in raw power alone, Kid Buu did much better than Fat Buu. Goku was using Fat Buu as a paddleball and had complete control of the fight, Kid Buu kept catching Goku off guard and was quite evidently able to hurt Goku.

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    • SS3 Goku had a clear advantage over Kid Buu. It's just because of Buu's superior stamina and SS3's energy drain that Goku wasn't able to finish him off. Goku was confident in fighting Buu and claimed that he could finish him off with a full powered blast.

      I think Goku improved a fair amount but the reason for Gohan's piss poor performance was because he himself had decreased A LOT in power. Makes sense, considering that only a few months after this, Gohan would deteriorate so much that his Super Saiyan form is stronger than his full power. The chain goes like this:

      Gohan (Buu Saga) >> SS3 Goku (BoG) > SS3 Goku (Buu Saga) >> Gohan (BoG) >> Gohan (RoF)

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    • At best SSJ3 Goku and Kid were even. SSJ3 Goku never dominated the fight. Vegeta thought that Goku was holding back for his sake, but Goku clarified he wasn't and that Kid was really giving him that much trouble.

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    • In the Manga, he had the clear advantage. The Anime extended the fight and made them seem more on par. You could make the in-universe case that since the fight lasted longer, Goku's stamina had been drained even more.

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    • It doesn't change how the Buus are scaled though. Kid Buu is still clearly stronger than Fat Buu.

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    • Stryzzar wrote:
      At best SSJ3 Goku and Kid were even. SSJ3 Goku never dominated the fight.

      Yes he did, when Evil Buu turned into Pure Buu he knew he can handle him

      http://www.kanzenshuu.com/manga/chp-508/

      "Kid Buu is still clearly stronger than Fat Buu" - innocent Buu or Good Buu?

      The problem is, why the hfil Vegeta didn't wanted Mystic Gohan to go trash "Kid" Buu, instead of being owned royalty, i know mystic boy saving the day is no better than a tsuful killing the saiyans but come on

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    • Even so, it was nowhere near to the extent that Goku was stomping Fat Buu (the first one). Kid Buu was landing hits on Goku and hurting him, even before Goku ran out of energy.

      Both Fat Buus.

      I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're saying on that last bit about Mystic Gohan.

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    • Kid Buy is weaker than Innocent Buu, but wild and feral, opposed to the water downed ferocity of Innocent But, who was filled with power and some compassion. Good Buu is pretty much Innocent Buu minus Kid Buu. Throw in some Toriyama math and you get the end result.

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    • Anything Fat Buu was capable of, Kid Buu was capable of too. Kid Buu could blow up something 10 times the size of the Earth and wasn't drained of any energy.

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    • Stryzzar wrote:
      I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're saying on that last bit about Mystic Gohan.

      This is a topic on mystic Gohan vs SSJ3 Goku (DBS)

      Mystic Gohan is waaaaaay stronger than "Kid" Buu

      .................

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpKe4fv512o

      05:58-06:00

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    • Oh, I agree with you. It was just confirmed by the Kais that Buu got weaker when became Kid Buu. More dangerous; less powerful.

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    • BH Ouji wrote:

      This is a topic on mystic Gohan vs SSJ3 Goku (DBS)

      Mystic Gohan is waaaaaay stronger than "Kid" Buu

      .................

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpKe4fv512o

      05:58-06:00

      Ohhhh. Well yeah, ofc Gohan was far stronger than Kid Buu or any version of Buu (other than Buutenks and Buuhan). I'm sure they would have had Gohan fight Kid, if Goku didn't stupidly save Mr. Satan instead of his own sons.

      Solember wrote:

      Oh, I agree with you. It was just confirmed by the Kais that Buu got weaker when became Kid Buu. More dangerous; less powerful.

      Are you sure they weren't talking about Super Buu? I don't recall them comparing Kid to Fat Buu (the original "Innocent" one).

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    • Kid Buu was Pure Evil. Innocent Buu was Super Buu inside out sort of. Mayhaps the same strength. Is there really any reason to think Super Buu is much Stronger than Innocent Buu? I know he's more vicious than Innocent was. I also believe Good Buu might be the same strength as Kid Buu was, but this is all speculation. There's a reason the end of the Buu Arc is criticized so negatively.

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    • With Super Buu they explained that he Grand Kaioshin essence heavily suppressed Buu's combat urges and abilities, so he became a much more sloppy fighter. Once skinny Evil Buu gained dominance, the original Kid/Pure Buu's abilities resurfaced. Piccolo commented that Super Buu was much more powerful than Innocent Fat Buu.

      Kid Buu was supposed to have removed all of the impurities that came from the Kaioshins Buu absorbed, so he was in his original destructive state.

      I'd think Kid is definitely stronger than Good Buu. The only reason Good Buu lasted that long was because of his regeneration. Kid Buu managed to thrash Good Buu so badly that his regeneration actually ran out and he was left unconscious (no other character except maybe Vegito has done that before)

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    • I'm not disputing any of this. I just believe a character's power level and their battle potential are not exactly the same thing. Kid Buu wrecks Good Buu because of his ferocity and perhaps a higher Power level.

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    • Well that's debatable. I'm not sure ferocity alone can let Kid triumph, but meh. Agree to disagree.

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    • Gohan

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    • It isn't really an Agree to Disagree thing. We are actually in agreement. I am  simply stating that Good Buu is at MOST equal to Kid Buu.

      I think that  he had no chance against Kid Buu because Kid was simply too ferocious. Too feral and efficient. Kid Buu could very well have been stronger too, but we just can't know that because of his crazy side.

      So you are right: Ferocity alone wouldn't let him win. It is my belief that a skilled fighter can be about 85% as strong as the strongest opponent they could defeat. Any weaker and they would require some sort of technique or ability. That is sort of why I am so excited to see the upcoming tournament. Roshi and Tien are really going to amaze us with clever trickery, I'd wager.

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    • Before you read what I am about to say understand that everyone is entitled to their own opinion as much as I am to mine... Just putting that out there. 

      Anyhow, Regarding the whole Buu Issue and which is stronger, I honestly think that Kid Buu is = to the Evil (Gray) Buu, as this version of Buu, as stated by the wiki, had the bulk of Majin Buu's power and you have to assume that after Good Buu, Gohan, Piccolo, Goten and Gotenks were ripped out of Super Buu, Kid Buu was made, so it is safe to assume that Evil Buu is equivalent in power level to Evil Buu, but, Kid Buu is harder to fight because of his unpredictability when he fights.

      On to the actual topic, it is likely that by the Battle of Gods saga, SSJ3 Goku is already stronger than Mystic Gohan. Understand that there is a timeskip (about 4 years if you are curious) between the Buu Saga and the Battle of Gods Saga, and it is likely to assume that Goku has been training whenever Chi Chi isn't looking and has been getting stronger. Understand that, at the time of the Buu Saga, Mystic Gohan is stronger than SSJ3 Goku, or even equal to eachother, but Gohan would be the more optimal fighter because of the heavy strain that SSJ3 would have on the body until Goku could develop it more (Brief Note: Goku developed this form when he was an Angel, and could not take the strain it had on a mortal body when he tried using it after he was revived.) After the time skip, assuming that Goku has been training, Battle of God's SSJ3 Goku is stronger than Buu Saga Mystic Gohan.

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    • Well said

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    • PhantomMaster18 wrote: Before you read what I am about to say understand that everyone is entitled to their own opinion as much as I am to mine... Just putting that out there. 

      Anyhow, Regarding the whole Buu Issue and which is stronger, I honestly think that Kid Buu is = to the Evil (Gray) Buu, as this version of Buu, as stated by the wiki, had the bulk of Majin Buu's power and you have to assume that after Good Buu, Gohan, Piccolo, Goten and Gotenks were ripped out of Super Buu, Kid Buu was made, so it is safe to assume that Evil Buu is equivalent in power level to Evil Buu, but, Kid Buu is harder to fight because of his unpredictability when he fights.

      On to the actual topic, it is likely that by the Battle of Gods saga, SSJ3 Goku is already stronger than Mystic Gohan. Understand that there is a timeskip (about 4 years if you are curious) between the Buu Saga and the Battle of Gods Saga, and it is likely to assume that Goku has been training whenever Chi Chi isn't looking and has been getting stronger. Understand that, at the time of the Buu Saga, Mystic Gohan is stronger than SSJ3 Goku, or even equal to eachother, but Gohan would be the more optimal fighter because of the heavy strain that SSJ3 would have on the body until Goku could develop it more (Brief Note: Goku developed this form when he was an Angel, and could not take the strain it had on a mortal body when he tried using it after he was revived.) After the time skip, assuming that Goku has been training, Battle of God's SSJ3 Goku is stronger than Buu Saga Mystic Gohan.

      No

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    • I definitely think he is right, unless you have some sort of information to back up your claim? SSJ3 Goku should be stronger than Mystic Gohan at that point.

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    • PhantomMaster18 wrote:

      Before you read what I am about to say understand that everyone is entitled to their own opinion as much as I am to mine... Just putting that out there. 

      Anyhow, Regarding the whole Buu Issue and which is stronger, I honestly think that Kid Buu is = to the Evil (Gray) Buu, as this version of Buu, as stated by the wiki, had the bulk of Majin Buu's power and you have to assume that after Good Buu, Gohan, Piccolo, Goten and Gotenks were ripped out of Super Buu, Kid Buu was made, so it is safe to assume that Evil Buu is equivalent in power level to Evil Buu, but, Kid Buu is harder to fight because of his unpredictability when he fights.

      On to the actual topic, it is likely that by the Battle of Gods saga, SSJ3 Goku is already stronger than Mystic Gohan. Understand that there is a timeskip (about 4 years if you are curious) between the Buu Saga and the Battle of Gods Saga, and it is likely to assume that Goku has been training whenever Chi Chi isn't looking and has been getting stronger. Understand that, at the time of the Buu Saga, Mystic Gohan is stronger than SSJ3 Goku, or even equal to eachother, but Gohan would be the more optimal fighter because of the heavy strain that SSJ3 would have on the body until Goku could develop it more (Brief Note: Goku developed this form when he was an Angel, and could not take the strain it had on a mortal body when he tried using it after he was revived.) After the time skip, assuming that Goku has been training, Battle of God's SSJ3 Goku is stronger than Buu Saga Mystic Gohan.

      I guess we can't know for sure how Kid Buu compares to Evil Buu, considering Evil Buu did jack s**t other than beat up Good Buu. Though I'd say, Kid Buu was at least as strong as Evil Buu, since both of them thoroughly beat Good Buu. The only reason Good Buu lasted longer against Kid, was because Kid wanted to kill Good Buu while Evil Buu wanted to absorb him.

      However, I think Kid is stronger than Evil Buu. My reasoning is Vegeta. When Buu split up into Good and Evil Buu, Vegeta commented on how he saw the event. It's quite apparent that both Good Buu and Evil Buu are weaker than Original Fat Buu/Innocent Buu (or whatever he's called). Majin Vegeta was able to hold his own against the Original Fat Buu for quite a long time, before Buu's regeneration and limitless stamina turned the tables and overwhelmed Vegeta. But when Vegeta fought against Kid he was immediately overwhelmed from the very start. It was not simply because of Kid's impulsive recklessness, Vegeta specifically comments on the unbelievable strength and speed that Kid had. Granted, Vegeta was slightly weaker than he was as a Majin, but it should not have made such a huge difference.

      As for BoG. Yes, Goku was stronger than Gohan at that point because Goku kept training while Gohan slacked off.

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    • Solember wrote: I definitely think he is right, unless you have some sort of information to back up your claim? SSJ3 Goku should be stronger than Mystic Gohan at that point.

      Nah. Mystic Gohan. The one that fought super Buu (with gotenks absorbed) would kick ss3 gokus ass. The one who got knocked out by beerus on king kais planet? Yeah Gohan would still win.

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    • Call it a draw. Im not sure why but i dont believe that particular goku would beat that particular gohan.

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    • If you mean Mystic Gohan from Buu Saga vs. SSJ3 Goku from BoG Saga, yes I'd probably still give it to Gohan. I think they mean BoG Gohan.

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    • Stryzzar wrote: If you mean Mystic Gohan from Buu Saga vs. SSJ3 Goku from BoG Saga, yes I'd probably still give it to Gohan. I think they mean BoG Gohan.

      Im not sure why they are talking about that one. Thats not what the question was. Haha

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    • Just to clarify. Super retconned the 4 years after kid buu, battle of gods took place in. It was advertised as right after the wish used to erase the earth population's memory of buu so he could live there without trouble, was granted. Which was 6 months.

      So with this new infomation, it's hard to tell how much goku had improved since Kid Buu due to Chichi is watching him constantly to make sure he doesn't train and to support his family by getting a job. While Gohan got married in that time span to videl and is setting up their new lives together, He hadn't bothered to train in that time span. 

      It isn't revealed exactly how much and how fast a saiyan's power drops when they slack off. 

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    • Goku trained and seemed to have matered Living Body SSJ3. So SSJ3 Goku Mastered PLUS training > prime Gohan

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    • Solember wrote:
      Oh, I agree with you. It was just confirmed by the Kais that Buu got weaker when became Kid Buu. More dangerous; less powerful.

      Actually Kibitoshin comfirmed that the Kaioshins weakened Buu

      Yeah i know, this is madness

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    • Not weakened; made him less evil, and thus less vicious.

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    • Solember wrote:
      Not weakened; made him less evil, and thus less vicious.


      http://www.kanzenshuu.com/manga/chp-508/

      yep, they weakened him

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    • Yes, but not his Power Level... He is no longer in clonflict internally, but rather he is pure evil.

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    • I find it hard to believe Goku could beat that gohan that fought buu. Goku said on the first episode of BoG that he hasn't been able to train much. And in that short amount time? Not happening guys. Gohan takes this one. Sorry.

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    • Solember wrote:

      Yes, but not his Power Level... He is no longer in clonflict internally, but rather he is pure evil.

      The implication was that Daikaioshin's presence restricted Buu's full access to his powers.

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    • A FANDOM user
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