FANDOM

7,402 Pages

  • They are sequels from DBZ and they are not as well recieved as the prequels were, but which is better?

      Loading editor
    • Going to say Super for several reasons.

      GT had a notorious habit of sidelining supporting characters. By the time of Shadow Dragon Saga, pretty much anyone who wasn't named Goku or Pan was completely irrelevant. Hell even Vegeta was reduced to "guy that Goku fuses with", bet they would have tried to fuse Goku and Pan together if they could. While Super does make Goku and Vegeta most focused on in combat, it doesn't neglect the supporting cast, taking time to show what the non-fighting characters are up to in slice-of-life episodes. They also keep doing sagas where the weaker Z-fighters have to partake in the main action as well.

      GT had terrible villains and story arcs. With the sole exception of the Baby Saga, all of the villains were either one-note/forgettable (Black Star villains, most of Shadow Dragons) or rehashes of ideas already done (Dr. Myuu redo of Dr. Gero, Super 17 Saga rehashed Fusion Reborn). Super haters are going to immediately say stuff like "they brought Frieza back which was unoriginal" or "Goku Black is a badly done fanfiction character" but they were both distinctive enough from what had already appeared in DBZ and they did put creative juices into those ideas. Also, GT just sticks in the same tiny universe, while Super expands into the greater beyond of Dragon Ball lore, giving insight into the other universes or god realms.

      GT takes the point in time where everyone is passed their prime and golden years. Everyone in GT is either so f**king old or an annoying kid. Super keeps the characters at their best ages, with their most iconic appearances and personality. I absolutely hated GT Kid Goku, who was even stupider than when he was in DB. I could not take a single scene with him in it seriously.

      The only thing that GT has going for it is transformations. Super Saiyan 4 was more creative than the God forms, I'll give it that. But I wouldn't really care if that form never shows up again in DB continuity, which is a small price to pay.

      That's my take on it.

        Loading editor
    • You know, when Super was airing the first episodes, I actually supported GT, but then as the series went on with the U6 tournament, the Black arc and now the Tournament of Power I can't deny at all that Super indeed became superior than GT. I mean there are some things I still hate from Super but overall it owns GT badly.

      Let's take for example what both series did with Frieza. GT Frieza was just lame, bad animated, weak af, just terrible. At least Super bothered to made a new arc for him, showing stuff we never saw from him before such as training or now joining forces with Goku.

      GT also did wrong in turning down the violence and action, they were aiming for kids when they turned Goku into a kid again, reduced the fights to ki-blast wars and even with the villain designs (Dancing Brothers, 2-Star Dragon, etc).

      I'm not gonna talk about GT plotholes because those are super well-known here.

        Loading editor
    • Super. GT did it all wrong. It should have been about Goten and Trunks falling in love... and going SS4

        Loading editor
    • At the moment, I can't definitively say which I think is better, but one point supporting GT is that it has MUCH better power scaling. Super has characters getting dozens of times stronger in an instant without making much sense at all. At least GT made sense in that regard.

        Loading editor
    • Creeperman129 wrote:
      At the moment, I can't definitively say which I think is better, but one point supporting GT is that it has MUCH better power scaling. Super has characters getting dozens of times stronger in an instant without making much sense at all. At least GT made sense in that regard.

      Not really. Goku was much stronger than all the other characters in GT despite being a kid.

        Loading editor
    • Rogeta234 wrote:
      Creeperman129 wrote:
      At the moment, I can't definitively say which I think is better, but one point supporting GT is that it has MUCH better power scaling. Super has characters getting dozens of times stronger in an instant without making much sense at all. At least GT made sense in that regard.
      Not really. Goku was much stronger than all the other characters in GT despite being a kid.

      I'm not saying that Goku being stronger wasn't a problem. I said the power scaling made sense. You could tell how strong the characters were in relation to each other in GT, while in Super, it makes much less sense. Like, how strong Krillin and 17 and Gohan and Frieza are now. Their powers are much trickier to figure out than GT scaling.

        Loading editor
    • Creeperman129 wrote:
      At the moment, I can't definitively say which I think is better, but one point supporting GT is that it has MUCH better power scaling. Super has characters getting dozens of times stronger in an instant without making much sense at all. At least GT made sense in that regard.

      How so? nobody is as strong as Goku from the Z-Fighters except for SS4 Vegeta in the Dragons Saga. For the Tournament arc, at least Super is trying to have the main Z-Fighters on pair with Goku, but sure, I must recognize that having characters like Roshi participating is going too far.

        Loading editor
    • Skar800 wrote:
      Creeperman129 wrote:
      At the moment, I can't definitively say which I think is better, but one point supporting GT is that it has MUCH better power scaling. Super has characters getting dozens of times stronger in an instant without making much sense at all. At least GT made sense in that regard.
      How so? nobody is as strong as Goku from the Z-Fighters except for SS4 Vegeta in the Dragons Saga. For the Tournament arc, at least Super is trying to have the main Z-Fighters on pair with Goku, but sure, I must recognize that having characters like Roshi participating is going too far.

      I concur with the Roshi part. I would've gone with either replacing him with Yamcha or having each Universe use more than 10 fighters.

        Loading editor
    • Skar800 wrote:
      Creeperman129 wrote:
      At the moment, I can't definitively say which I think is better, but one point supporting GT is that it has MUCH better power scaling. Super has characters getting dozens of times stronger in an instant without making much sense at all. At least GT made sense in that regard.
      How so? nobody is as strong as Goku from the Z-Fighters except for SS4 Vegeta in the Dragons Saga. For the Tournament arc, at least Super is trying to have the main Z-Fighters on pair with Goku, but sure, I must recognize that having characters like Roshi participating is going too far.

      AGAIN, I'm NOT saying involving side characters is bad. I'm saying it's harder to determine how much stronger these characters are in relation to each other. Please understand that.

        Loading editor
    • Creeperman129 wrote:
      Skar800 wrote:
      Creeperman129 wrote:
      At the moment, I can't definitively say which I think is better, but one point supporting GT is that it has MUCH better power scaling. Super has characters getting dozens of times stronger in an instant without making much sense at all. At least GT made sense in that regard.
      How so? nobody is as strong as Goku from the Z-Fighters except for SS4 Vegeta in the Dragons Saga. For the Tournament arc, at least Super is trying to have the main Z-Fighters on pair with Goku, but sure, I must recognize that having characters like Roshi participating is going too far.
      AGAIN, I'm NOT saying involving side characters is bad. I'm saying it's harder to determine how much stronger these characters are in relation to each other. Please understand that.

      Oh, you mean it's harder to determine in Super?

      Well, to be honest here, it doesn't like seem neither GT or Super did things right about that, both were too extremist. I mean, the human fighters needed a huge power boost to match SSB to have a chance in the tournament of power but they have like 10 episodes or whatever to do so, I agree that Krillin or 17 having a chance against Blue doesn't make too much sense.

      But GT is not better than that, everyone got weak but Goku, about 94% of GT villains were killed by him, of course you're gonna get a very simple power scale.

      so in short:

      Super = too op

      Gt = too weak

        Loading editor
    • Super = GT has no Super Saiyan Pan

        Loading editor
    • MehQueen25 wrote:
      Super = GT has no Super Saiyan Pan


      Another reason why GT sucks.

      There was no excuse for not having at least Pan going SSJ since she was half-saiyan like the rest. Bra was no fighter nor a main character so it's understandable.

        Loading editor
    • + Goku jr and Vegeta jr can go super saiyan

        Loading editor
    • and they might be only 1% saiyan

        Loading editor
    • + Super does not only focus on one character, it focuses on many. And has great plot twists.

      Such as the angels being evil

        Loading editor
    • MehQueen25 wrote:
      + Super does not only focus on one character, it focuses on many. And has great plot twists.

      Such as the angels being evil

      The Angels aren't evil.

        Loading editor
    • MehQueen25 wrote:
      + Super does not only focus on one character, it focuses on many. And has great plot twists.

      Such as the angels being evil


      I admit that could be a good one, I'm suspecting it could be just their personalities and that they just don't care about whoever dies but U9 angel's reaction cannot be justified whatsoever.

      And yeah Super is giving some screentime to the old characters. I can't believe how GT reduced classics like Yamcha, Tien, Oolong to cameos.

        Loading editor
    • + Pan is an Ill mannered spoiled brat who has no respect. 

        Loading editor
    • Rogeta234 wrote:
      MehQueen25 wrote:
      + Super does not only focus on one character, it focuses on many. And has great plot twists.

      Such as the angels being evil

      The Angels aren't evil.

      If Mojito hates Sidra and Roh why would he smile for innocent people dying. + The ending theme Evil Angels and Rightous Demons explains everything.

        Loading editor
    • It is a theory

        Loading editor
    • Mojito might be evil, or just very sadistic. Grand Priest is evil though.

        Loading editor
    • idk guys, this Evil Angels or Evil Great Priest theory sounds really interesting and creepy but what really kills it for me is their supposed evil goal.

      Let's say he's evil, fine, what's his evil plan all about? overthrowing Zen-Ohs doesn't convince me at all since they're pure destruction and they're already destroying universes for the tournament.

      And also, he is already an entity above the Kais, Gods of Destrucion and Angels, both in position and power so I mean, what else could he ask for?

      I think he has that dick attitude and all like his children do, he is their father after all. If you look at Whis or Vados, they don't really seem to care either and yet, it doesn't seem likely that characters like them end up being villains in the future.

        Loading editor
    • This YTber theorized that Grand Priest wants to kill Zen'o or something, and maybe establish angels as the governing race.

        Loading editor
    • The only thing that kinda makes sense is that the erasement rule kinda suits him to take the Kaioshin and Gods of Destrucion out of the way but then again, it starts to make less sense to me because there's not a single to character who defeated an Angel and much less the Priest, so who's gonna stop him?

      Only thing we know it would kill him for sure is if Zen-Oh erases the timeline, but we've already saw that before so it would become a copy of Zamasu's arc, Angel style.

        Loading editor
    • Zen'o is more powerful than him. Maybe he wants to get rid of enough universes so there's no more support backing Zen'o, less Gods to interfere.

        Loading editor
    • Who'd even thought that Piccolo should die!!! Piccolo is awesome. Without Piccolo... +GT wasn't even made by Toriyama... So I am totes Super

        Loading editor
    • Super:

      -Cute Pan

      -Goku Black (before he was stated to be Zamasu black)

      -Zeno sama

      -The trio of danger doggies

      -Return of Future Trunks

      -Ramen eating

      -Sexy 100% saiyans

      -Cabba (albeit he's out of character)

      -Whis and Vados

      -Bulma gets b*** slapped

      -Future Mai getting a change of heart

      -Great saiyaman beam

      -Bra's other name

      GT:

      -Pan's midriff baring outfit

      -SSJ4 Gogeta

      -Si Xing Long

      -Super Lapis

      -Return of the great saiyaman 2

      -Bulma with glasses

      -SSJ4 Goku

      -The BGM by mr. Tokunaga

      -Dan Dan Kokoro Hikareteku

      -The ending montage

      -Vegeta jr

      -Kurilin dies.....again!

      "Who'd even thought that Piccolo should die!!! Piccolo is awesome. Without Piccolo..." - but Piccolo jr also dies in Super

        Loading editor
    • ... Z

        Loading editor
    • NervousShipper wrote:
      ... Z

      Excuse me what?

      BH Ouji:

      "-Cabba (albeit he's out of character)"

      How is he out of character at all?

        Loading editor
    • Z is better than either offshoot (excluding 18 standing there like an idiot for 38 episodes before Cell notices her and absorbs her)

        Loading editor
    • NervousShipper wrote:
      Z is better than either offshoot (excluding 18 standing there like an idiot for 38 episodes before Cell notices her and absorbs her)

      Well duh we aren't arguing that.

        Loading editor
    • I already said Super.

        Loading editor
    • Ok. Good for you. I wasn't saying that you didn't say that either.

        Loading editor
    • my point is that it's basically like arguing which Yamcha death is your favourite.

        Loading editor
    • Creeperman129 wrote:
      NervousShipper wrote:
      ... Z
      Excuse me what?

      BH Ouji:

      "-Cabba (albeit he's out of character)"

      How is he out of character at all?

      He's a saiyan, he should be bloodthirsty

        Loading editor
    • BH Ouji wrote:
      Creeperman129 wrote:
      NervousShipper wrote:
      ... Z
      Excuse me what?

      BH Ouji:

      "-Cabba (albeit he's out of character)"

      How is he out of character at all?

      He's a saiyan, he should be bloodthirsty

      That's not out of character. At all. Out of character means that a character does something that, with their previously established personality, they would never do. Cabba was introduced as a heroic person and has stayed consistent.

      Just because he's not the exact same as Universe 7 Saiyans before the genocide of Frieza because, you know, he's from a different universe with a different history surrounding the Saiyans, doesn't mean he's out of character.

      Sure, you can have the opinion that you would like Cabba more if he WAS a bloodythirsty Saiyan. However, you can't say he's out of character.

        Loading editor
    • Creeperman129 wrote:
      BH Ouji wrote:
      Creeperman129 wrote:
      NervousShipper wrote:
      ... Z
      Excuse me what?

      BH Ouji:

      "-Cabba (albeit he's out of character)"

      How is he out of character at all?

      He's a saiyan, he should be bloodthirsty
      That's not out of character. At all. Out of character means that a character does something that, with their previously established personality, they would never do. Cabba was introduced as a heroic person and has stayed consistent.

      But aren't saiyans supposed to be a bloodthirsty warrior race, i know it's a "switching shoes" scenario but c'mon

      Ontopic

      I think they both suck as bad, GT thinks that Panny is a brat who doesn't respect anyone and thinks she's mature despite that she cried over by hit by a tin-can, Goku is a god and thus no one else is allowed to take the glory, Goten has a girlfriend despite his only lover is Trunks, more making fun of Vegeta (Baby Vegeta being one of them), Goku getting his tail back, even thought it was PERMATNLY removed by Goku, Pedophilia towards Bra (and they say Vegeta is pedo), Vegeta not avalible to get his tail back for "some" reason, Lazuli killing off her own brother, the return of the pathethic Tsuful race, Bra doesn't like to fight. While Super uses Anime logic (Vegeta not being the real planet of the saiyans, Bulma-Ginyu, Trunkie going SSJ after seeing FGohan die, and mafuba not killing the user), and "Toriyama dug a hole from he can't get up" logic *cough* potara fusion having a "time limit" *cough*

        Loading editor
    • I think GT is better, mostly just because the animation and color palette is to my liking, but also the powerscaling is mostly consistent throughout the series, unlike the constant confusion of where Blue stands. 

      The characters I guess is a valid complaint, though I found myself liking a lot of them during the Super 17 arc.

        Loading editor
    • NervousShipper wrote: my point is that it's basically like arguing which Yamcha death is your favourite.

      The one where he blew himself up and took down Zen-o saving everyone in the Tournament of Power.

        Loading editor
    • Stryzzar wrote:

      NervousShipper wrote: my point is that it's basically like arguing which Yamcha death is your favourite.

      The one where he blew himself up and took down Zen-o saving everyone in the Tournament of Power.

      That could have been an awesome strategy, say Goku to Yamcha before leaving, "Hey Yamcha here's the plan, you go next to that giant Jiren guy, let him kill you with a single look so he would get disqualified, don't worry we will get Shenron to revive you later".

        Loading editor
    • One thing I find unforgivable about GT is their attempt of using the same humor that DB had when Goku was a kid, the reason why it worked was because of the setting; Kid Goku didn't have his Saiyan powers (he didn't know how to fly by his own, barely used Ki techniques, etc), so because of that and the fact he was 12, it actually was funny seeing him being chased by some monster or seeing him using hilarious strategies to defeat some of the earlier villains.


      GT tried to apply that very humor but it longer made sense because of their evolution. I remember that episode when Goku, Trunks and Pan were chased by some alien tiger, that is no longer funny because we know that with just one punch they would have scared off that animal, not to mention they KNEW HOW TO FLY, why even run from a mere animal?
      That was funny when it happened to the kid from DB not when we know he's a SSJ3 who moves at lightspeed and is capable of destroying planets relatively easy.

        Loading editor
    • Skar800 wrote:
      One thing I find unforgivable about GT is their attempt of using the same humor that DB had when Goku was a kid, the reason why it worked was because of the setting; Kid Goku didn't have his Saiyan powers (he didn't know how to fly by his own, barely used Ki techniques, etc), so because of that and the fact he was 12, it actually was funny seeing him being chased by some monster or seeing him using hilarious strategies to defeat some of the earlier villains.


      GT tried to apply that very humor but it longer made sense because of their evolution. I remember that episode when Goku, Trunks and Pan were chased by some alien tiger, that is no longer funny because we know that with just one punch they would have scared off that animal, not to mention they KNEW HOW TO FLY, why even run from a mere animal?
      That was funny when it happened to the kid from DB not when we know he's a SSJ3 who moves at lightspeed and is capable of destroying planets relatively easy.

      They also had that one where it was literally just the Oolong plot except with Trunks instead.

        Loading editor
    • Creeperman129 wrote:

      Skar800 wrote:
      One thing I find unforgivable about GT is their attempt of using the same humor that DB had when Goku was a kid, the reason why it worked was because of the setting; Kid Goku didn't have his Saiyan powers (he didn't know how to fly by his own, barely used Ki techniques, etc), so because of that and the fact he was 12, it actually was funny seeing him being chased by some monster or seeing him using hilarious strategies to defeat some of the earlier villains.


      GT tried to apply that very humor but it longer made sense because of their evolution. I remember that episode when Goku, Trunks and Pan were chased by some alien tiger, that is no longer funny because we know that with just one punch they would have scared off that animal, not to mention they KNEW HOW TO FLY, why even run from a mere animal?
      That was funny when it happened to the kid from DB not when we know he's a SSJ3 who moves at lightspeed and is capable of destroying planets relatively easy.

      They also had that one where it was literally just the Oolong plot except with Trunks instead.

      There's also the fact all that humor stemmed from Goku being naive and innocent. That just doesn't work in GT as Goku has all his adult memories. So not only has he gotten smaller, he's gotten dumber too. For Zen-o's sake, Goku stopped swimming naked for decades!

      I couldn't take a single scene with GT Kid Goku in it seriously. The only watchable episodes was when Goku (and Pan) were absent.

        Loading editor
    • I think i prefer Super, because as someone previously said in this forum, GT sidelined the characters whereas some of the old characters have become relevant, Pilaf, Master Roshi and Tien, hopefully we'll see more techniques from them. It also expands on the mythos of the Dragon Ball World, like the cosmic structure such as the relationship between the Kais and gods of destruction, plus i liked it that they expanded upon Frieza, i hope they do more on expanding the dragon Ball world =)

        Loading editor
    • Stryzzar wrote:

      I couldn't take a single scene with GT Kid Goku in it seriously. The only watchable episodes was when Goku (and Pan) were absent.

      I watch GT becuase of Pan

      Goku can go to hell

        Loading editor
    • BH Ouji wrote:

      Goku can go to hell

      He did and it was painful to watch.

        Loading editor
    • Pan wasn't great either, couldn't even go super saiyan.

        Loading editor
    • NervousShipper wrote:
      Pan wasn't great either, couldn't even go super saiyan.

      Maybe she was mystic?

      "He did and it was painful to watch." - well many fans wanted Goku to stay dead in the buu saga, one even complained calling him a motherf (+18 )

      also trust me, it could be worse https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1jlFn5sn6Y

        Loading editor
    • BH Ouji wrote:
      NervousShipper wrote:
      Pan wasn't great either, couldn't even go super saiyan.
      Maybe she was mystic?


      Your fantasy never happened. Let it go.

        Loading editor
    • GT sucked, a 3.125% (aka a 1/16[Goku Jr]) saiyan can become a Super Saiyan and Pan... well no, I'd rather have no super saiyan in GT, but Super showed that female saiyans can be Super Saiyans. GT makes no sense, thus it sucks. There is no way in hell Pan cannot be a super saiyan!

        Loading editor
    • NervousShipper wrote:
      BH Ouji wrote:
      NervousShipper wrote:
      Pan wasn't great either, couldn't even go super saiyan.
      Maybe she was mystic?
      Your fantasy never happened.

      For the love of God, stop it

      Also how do you explain her owning General Rilld and Doctor Gero?

      "There is no way in hell Pan cannot be a super saiyan!" - as a blond girl fetisher myself, i bet Pan's loli level would be maximum if she went SSJ

      "a 3.125% (aka a 1/16[Goku Jr]) saiyan" - um Goku jr is 1/64 Saiyan, he's Pan's great-great grandson afterall!

        Loading editor
    • BH Ouji wrote:

      For the love of God, stop it

      There are few who wouldn't find that ironic.

        Loading editor
    • BH Ouji wrote:
      NervousShipper wrote:
      BH Ouji wrote:
      NervousShipper wrote:
      Pan wasn't great either, couldn't even go super saiyan.
      Maybe she was mystic?
      Your fantasy never happened.
      For the love of God, stop it

      Also how do you explain her owning General Rilld and Doctor Gero?

      "There is no way in hell Pan cannot be a super saiyan!" - as a blond girl fetisher myself, i bet Pan's loli level would be maximum if she went SSJ

      "a 3.125% (aka a 1/16[Goku Jr]) saiyan" - um Goku jr is 1/64 Saiyan, he's Pan's great-great grandson afterall!

      Gross. 

      That's a really gross thing you said.

        Loading editor
    • TeamUnitedNerds wrote:

      Gross. 

      That's a really gross thing you said.

      Yeah... it really is.

        Loading editor
    • BH Ouji wrote:

      "He did and it was painful to watch." - well many fans wanted Goku to stay dead in the buu saga

      I'm talking about Goku visiting Frieza and Cell in hell

        Loading editor
    • TeamUnitedNerds wrote:
      BH Ouji wrote:
      NervousShipper wrote:
      BH Ouji wrote:
      NervousShipper wrote:
      Pan wasn't great either, couldn't even go super saiyan.
      Maybe she was mystic?
      Your fantasy never happened.
      For the love of God, stop it
      Also how do you explain her owning General Rilld and Doctor Gero?

      "There is no way in hell Pan cannot be a super saiyan!" - as a blond girl fetisher myself, i bet Pan's loli level would be maximum if she went SSJ

      Gross. 

      That's a really gross thing you said.

      I meant adult women, you think i'm that insaiyan?

      "I'm talking about Goku visiting Frieza and Cell in hell " - and? Goku only returned becuase Godnaiccolo joinded forces with Dende, he should stayed there

      "There are few who wouldn't find that ironic" - besides people think that, despite the fact Pan in GT doesn't have mystic eyes, Gohan had

        Loading editor
    • Goku returned because Goku always had to be the bloody one to save the day. For once I agree, GT Goku should have stayed in hell.

        Loading editor
    • BH Ouji wrote:
      TeamUnitedNerds wrote:
      BH Ouji wrote:
      NervousShipper wrote:
      BH Ouji wrote:
      NervousShipper wrote:
      Pan wasn't great either, couldn't even go super saiyan.
      Maybe she was mystic?
      Your fantasy never happened.
      For the love of God, stop it
      Also how do you explain her owning General Rilld and Doctor Gero?

      "There is no way in hell Pan cannot be a super saiyan!" - as a blond girl fetisher myself, i bet Pan's loli level would be maximum if she went SSJ

      Gross. 

      That's a really gross thing you said.

      I meant adult women, you thing i'm that insaiyan?

      "I'm talking about Goku visiting Frieza and Cell in hell " - and? Goku only returned becuase Godnaiccolo joinded forces with Dende, he should stayed there

      "There are few who wouldn't find that ironic" - besides people think that, despite the fact Pan in GT doesn't have mystic eyes, Gohan had

      If you're talking about adults you wouldn't have used the world "loli"

        Loading editor
    • Stryzzar wrote:
      Goku returned because Goku always had to be the bloody one to save the day. For once I agree, GT Goku should have stayed in hell.

      Of course, the show's name is "GOKU time" afterall (oh and TOEI produced it, and they thing goku is a god and should be number 1 despite of the logic) sigh let's pretent GT left on paper, as for DBS..well let's pretent DB died in 1995 ;) (or 1996 in anime version)

      "If you're talking about adults you wouldn't have used the world "loli"" - (facepalm) Pan GT SSJ would be loli, but i am talking about my fetish for adult GT Pan...and other female SSJs

        Loading editor
    • NervousShipper wrote:
      Pan wasn't great either

      I think you have to go to Prince BH's school about which Pan is the REAL Pan

      http://bh-ouji.deviantart.com/art/Pan-vs-GT-Pan-like-brat-652820348

      As much i know that the real 10 year old Pan would be an agressive little b, i prefer her to be a cheerful loving angel girl

        Loading editor
    • It might be too late to give opinions, and whatever argument this is, I'm skipping it for now. In my opinion, even though they basically stole from Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z, I like Dragon Ball GT more than Super. To be honest, in my opinion, what really defines Dragon Ball are the opponents, as they are a unique character every time and the protagonist side is awful. As for both, Goku is the main character and the supporting characters are barely supporting characters. Reminds me of Jake Paul and Team 10. That's how awful I really think of the main characters. GT had more unique villains and set it up quite well in my opinion. I mean in Super, the only villain I could think of was set up greatly - and better than the GT villains by far  I might add - is Zamasu. And that's my thoughts before I saw the same shit with Savitar and found out they were kinda ripping off Baby and Skynet. And then after that we have poorly developed characters from other Universes that barely got any screen time or set ups, except for maybe Toppo and the Pride Troopers. And today, they are still trying to coast on the Future Trunks Arc's and the Universe 6 Arc's momentum that made everyone watch Super in the first place. Then get none of that becuase all of the opponents suck.

      What I'm trying to say is, it's better to have an Arc that's good then have another one just as good, then something like Fast Five for The Fast and The Furious franchise where one thing changes that makes people happy and excited to watch the franchise. Then get all bored and hating on it because they are trying to get more money by doing the same types of action again. That's basically Super. GT doesn't follow that though, as I though the Baby Arc and the Shadow Dragons Arc were good and were the only major arcs in that series as I view the first arc as a pilot arc - and sometimes bad first impressions are wrong - and the Super 17 Arc a filler arc since it had very few episodes on it. For me, when I was a kid, it gave me the same tension as Z - not as much by a long shot - but felt like the same thing we all wanted to watch in the first place. The villains were impressive with their unique concept and design, including their powers. It had actual tension and rose the stakes to a reasonable amount. 

        Loading editor
    • I'm a fan of both Super and GT. Sure, they may have some flaws but what show doesn't? 

        Loading editor
    • Firefly. It didn't live long enough to have any.

        Loading editor
    • I like both. But i can't stand Beerus or his Brother Champa. So i'm going GT. Cos i'm more used to it.

        Loading editor
    • Sclera1 wrote: I think i prefer Super, because as someone previously said in this forum, GT sidelined the characters whereas some of the old characters have become relevant, Pilaf, Master Roshi and Tien, hopefully we'll see more techniques from them. It also expands on the mythos of the Dragon Ball World, like the cosmic structure such as the relationship between the Kais and gods of destruction, plus i liked it that they expanded upon Frieza, i hope they do more on expanding the dragon Ball world =)

      I just wanted to expand on my explanation, like for example, Fireza. Now, since his defeat, he was pretty much superseded by Cell and Majin Buu, who themselves were harder to defeat and could heal themselves if their limbs were severed or even reform themselves, which was the same with Frieza during GT. I liked it that they made Frieza relevant since he fought Goku and Trunks when he didn't do any training, and became more powerful and more relevent in terms of a formidable adversary too. I just wanted to say that as a note.

        Loading editor
    • I like both

        Loading editor
    • Let's be fair here, SSB may be from a better show But SSJ4 looks waaay cooler.

        Loading editor
    • I didn't like GT because it was "Goku Time" after all. That meant the characters would be tossed aside, nerfed into oblivion while Goku hogs all the spotlight.

      I must say that even Super is adapting this Time', but in the "Universe 7" mode. 'Come on, every episode has one of the U7 fighters in it, or U6. Due to this, the other Universes are not properly characterised; thus their lack of popularity. 

      Yet, I consider Super superior!

        Loading editor
    • JJRULEZ1 wrote:
      Let's be fair here, SSB may be from a better show But SSJ4 looks waaay cooler.


      Yep, SSJB is bassicly a SSJ1 recolor that was dated back in late 90s early 00s

      What? Are we gonna recolor SSJ1 with green hair and say it's a planet buster?

      Please Toei/Toriyama, be more creative

      Also Kale in her rage mode. Toriyama bassicly took his design for LSSJ Broli and called it a thing, who knows, maybe Frost will turn into shredder like form like Coola?

        Loading editor
    • BH Ouji wrote:
      JJRULEZ1 wrote:
      Let's be fair here, SSB may be from a better show But SSJ4 looks waaay cooler.

      Yep, SSJB is bassicly a SSJ1 recolor that was dated back in late 90s early 00s

      What? Are we gonna recolor SSJ1 with green hair and say it's a planet buster?

      Please Toei/Toriyama, be more creative

      Also Kale in her rage mode. Toriyama bassicly took his design for LSSJ Broli and called it a thing, who knows, maybe Frost will turn into shredder like form like Coola?

      I know, I like the manga much better. I recommend it. Toyotaro is much better than Toei and uses the main outlines of Toriyama's script to its best.

        Loading editor
    • In my opinion it is much better GT than DBS. :)

        Loading editor
    • DBZ Super stays true to its DBZ original roots an its new characters are a lot better than the ones from GT, the new characters such as Caulifla. Kale, Cabba and Hit are the best ones introduced in my opinion and the story is much more epic and intriguing than GT's.

        Loading editor
    • Tesshu wrote:
      DBZ Super stays true to its DBZ original roots an its new characters are a lot better than the ones from GT, the new characters such as Caulifla. Kale, Cabba and Hit are the best ones introduced in my opinion and the story is much more epic and intriguing than GT's.

      WTF are you talking about? Super doesn't stay to DBZ's original roots at all. The animation is new and early on it was awful, the characters are super bland such as Caulifla, Kale, Cabba, and Hit. And no, Hit is not a good character at all. He's just your stereotypical hitman with no emotions at all. The only reason he exists is to be Goku's new rival that's it. Cabba, Caulifla, and Kale are one-dimesional characters because they are one underdeveloped and two are also stereotypes. I mean seriously, the only reason people are watching DB Super is because of the Future Trunks Arc where Zamasu was intresting, except that Zamasu was just a copy of several characters such as Cell, Skynet, Anakin, etc. It's like Fast Five in the Fast and Furious franchise. Not only that, but all the intelligent stuff in DB has all gone away. Every returning character has become a dumbass now at least GT had some smartness in them and actual cool concepts, and not to mention less characters about the fanservice. Even the villains are good concpets and have and intresting character to them in GT unlike DB Super filled with bland, one-diensional, and overall annoying characters. Also, every arc except for the Future Trunks Arc and the movies is a Tournament Arc which is not what we asked for. At least GT had ACTUAL CONFLICT with less concpets borrowed from Z or the movies.

        Loading editor
    • How is Kale underdeveloped? She went from meek and shy to confident along with controlling her former, which is far more than can be said for Broly.

      Hit does have characterisation. He's respectful to worthy opponents, he's calculating and strategic. He's a lot like Piccolo in that regard.

        Loading editor
    • "DBZ Super"

      Please kill me.

        Loading editor
    • Yeah and that's about it for Hit. Hit barely has any character and no he's not like Piccolo because Piccolo actually changed from a guy adamant on carrying his father's final wish, to an actual loving father figure to Gohan and dear friend to Goku. Meanwhile, no new character in DB Super has any impact to the major characters in any way except for Beerus, Whis, and Zamasu, the top 3 characters in DB Super. And Hit now barely has impact or any real appeal in the Tournament of Power instead replaced by a cunt and some mute guy named Jiren. Like seriously, the new guy Goku has to face is some weird ugly ass alien that always just looks at you for no reason. Even his attacks are cheesy as shit so far like Power Impact was basically some "cool people don't look at explosions" cliche.

      As for Kale, she barely had any character devlopment and her motives in transforming into her form is not really given. Like, we have to guess why in the world did she transform into this miraculous form besides fan service We know that she's shy but that's really it. I mean, Caulifla plays a role but even then are we supposed to guess Kale's lesbian? I know apprentices always look up to their master with the utmost respect and familial connection in Japan but we don't know anyting about Kale. And her other Super Saiyan form came out of nowhere like WTF? She was self-loathing herself and then she changed into something different. That doesn't change her at all if she hates her weak self that much her solution is to transform in to her rip-off of Legendary Super Saiyan that's it. Do we even know if she really changed? No. If we knew the real reason why she's shy, and what boundries she's facing in a clarified way in which I don't have to do my homework like any character in Super, then she can be considered a developed character. Even now, I don't even know what really pushed her over the edge.

        Loading editor
    • My overall thoughts on Super: It is a 5/10 right now, even though I think it should be even lower than that. And which sequel is better? The answer is DB Online. No, not DB Online's version of Dragon Ball Super and the movie duology, which is literally there for fanservice, but DB Online itself. DB Online had a really good story, with intresting and mysterious villains such as Towa and Mira, as well as all the other groups in the distant future of Age 1000. It kept me at the edge of my seat with concepts such as the Masked Saiyan, Cell-X, and the Dark Namekian army and me myself wanted to discover more of the DB Online world. While it does steal the concept of Doctor Who, what time travel media doesn't? In DB standards, this is the best story a DB sequel can ever get. And it does a lot better in explaining what's going on than DB Super and DB GT ever did and keeps the wit of DB and DBZ well, better than GT and DEFINITELY better than Super. It also escalated the action quite well as you take down organization from organization until you get to the one behind the whole conflict, the Time Breakers. And while the Time Breakers were the most intresting, I honestly liked the Red Pants Army, the Paella Army, the Dark Namekian Army (my favorite besides the Time Breakers), and the leftovers of the Frieza Force because the escalation was pretty reasonable as we get closer and closer to the Time Breakers. That's what I want for DB Super, to slow the escalation down becasue with each escalation all the way to the main conflict happening to big of a gap in so little time, it makes the other characters unintresting. I like GT better than Super because of this, as GT was mostly about the fault of the Dragon Balls existance in the Universe and it escalated quite well despite some faulty characters like Super 17. So yeah, that's my thoughts on which is better, definite have to go with Online for this one, best sequel of DB and DBZ by default.

        Loading editor
    • Well Piccolo has been around for far longer than Hit has, he started off as a maniacal psycho. Hit didn't need to change much because he was never a villain. But he has changed a bit with his willingness to work with Goku when he was previously a lone wolf.

      Look, I honestly don't like Kale in general. But saying she didn't change at all just isn't true. She went through the same really cliched shy girl becomes willing to stand up for herself plot.

      Caulifla didn't really need to develop. She was liked just how she is, a brash, reckless, impulsive female Saiyan warrior.

        Loading editor
    • Yeah, you got this one but also what I also meant was how the littlle set-up the characters had. If we had an introductory scene with Caulifla and her gang with Kale in there doing their buissiness, a scene with that alone could've been better than what we got becuase it gives a hint of what's to come with these characters and can be used as expostion as well such as maybe a possible mention of Kale's backstory of what made her who she is. 

      Look, the reason why the new characters haven't changed who they are that much is not only because they have been in the show less than the major character has, but because we don't know who they really are. If we just got at least one scene from the main characters in each universe describing who they are, what is their purpose in life, and what made them who they are such as their personal boundries, then we could've had a lot more character development than what we had. It would've made people get more hyped over the Torunament of Power becuase of he mystery of what's going to happen when they meet the main cast, who the other people are, etc. Instead, they were very abruptly introduced through the Tournament or through one of the characters we know and their adventures, or even have a sneak peek scene that doesn't really descrbe anything about the new characters. Wouldn't it been great if we knew why they do what they do and change and possibly break their own personal boundries becuase of meeting our main characters while the main characters break their boundries as well? After all, the theme song of the Tournamant of Power is LIMIT BREAK x Survivor after all so where is the limit breaks besides Goku? Hit we don't know so much about his motives in life and why he chose to be the lone wolf and go solo. And Caulifla isn't really liked in the DB continuity. It's a pretty mixed bag. People hate her because she unlocked ssj 2 in a limited amount of time and is sooooo progidous it basically ruins any intrest of her character, much like Rey in The Force Awakens. Seriously, in the DB community Caulifla is pretty much a Mary Sue. And no one really critiques her character as something more becuase we don't know her character a lot. We just know her as "the first female Super Saiyan and first female to unlock Super Saiyan 2 in one day". Yeah man, Caulifla really needed to develop but she didn't. Instead replaced by a semi-character breakthrough that isn't really a breakthrough because we don't really know that much Kale changed since we know so little about her character except the fact that she likes Caulifla. She just fought some Pride Troopers and passed out.

        Loading editor
    • Creeperman129 wrote:
      "DBZ Super"

      Please kill me.

      I know how you fell buddy

      People are calling Dragon Ball Multiverse - Dragon Ball Z Multiverse

      LOL that's like calling DBGT - DBZGT

      "In my opinion it is much better GT than DBS. :)" - um friend, are you not studing english in school and are forcing to use google translator

      As for me i finished school in 2004, so my english can be rusty too ^^'

        Loading editor
    • From what ive seen most people DID LIKE DBZ Super, you opinion is your opinion i get that, but still you're the first person ever to tell me that DBZ super isn't good and complained about everything of this new saga of DBZ, you're saying more what you think than how actaully DBZ Super really is,which is a great series i'd give a 8.5 out 10 at best.

        Loading editor
    • Dude it's not "DBZ Super" it's just "DB Super".

        Loading editor
    • SuperBen 1000000 wrote:

      Look, the reason why the new characters haven't changed who they are that much is not only because they have been in the show less than the major character has, but because we don't know who they really are. If we just got at least one scene from the main characters in each universe describing who they are, what is their purpose in life, and what made them who they are such as their personal boundries, then we could've had a lot more character development than what we had. It would've made people get more hyped over the Torunament of Power becuase of he mystery of what's going to happen when they meet the main cast, who the other people are, etc. Instead, they were very abruptly introduced through the Tournament or through one of the characters we know and their adventures, or even have a sneak peek scene that doesn't really descrbe anything about the new characters. Wouldn't it been great if we knew why they do what they do and change and possibly break their own personal boundries becuase of meeting our main characters while the main characters break their boundries as well? After all, the theme song of the Tournamant of Power is LIMIT BREAK x Survivor after all so where is the limit breaks besides Goku? Hit we don't know so much about his motives in life and why he chose to be the lone wolf and go solo. And Caulifla isn't really liked in the DB continuity. It's a pretty mixed bag. People hate her because she unlocked ssj 2 in a limited amount of time and is sooooo progidous it basically ruins any intrest of her character, much like Rey in The Force Awakens. Seriously, in the DB community Caulifla is pretty much a Mary Sue. And no one really critiques her character as something more becuase we don't know her character a lot. We just know her as "the first female Super Saiyan and first female to unlock Super Saiyan 2 in one day". Yeah man, Caulifla really needed to develop but she didn't. Instead replaced by a semi-character breakthrough that isn't really a breakthrough because we don't really know that much Kale changed since we know so little about her character except the fact that she likes Caulifla. She just fought some Pride Troopers and passed out.

      It's not just that. It's also about whether a character needs to change. Goku has not really changed that much compared to Piccolo and Vegeta. Since he became an adult his personality has mostly been the same. Why? Because it works. So why change it?

      I do agree the Saiyan ladies could have more depth and backstory, but that's not directly tied with character development. You can be completely undeveloped and still be really complex and fleshed out.

        Loading editor
    • I like the fact of how they introduced a new generation of younger heroes such as Caulifla, Caba, Kale, Hit(In his case an anti-hero) and Jaco(I know he is from universe 7,), the fact that Universe 6 is linked to Universe 7 gives possibility/potential for more sagas featuring Universe 6 and even spin-off series with Caba and Caulifla as its protagonists.

        Loading editor
    • dragon ball super is far more superior than gt because transformations of super is much cooler than gt and do you know super saiyan 4 has pink fur which is totaly pthetic.

        Loading editor
    • I can't wait for DBZGTS

        Loading editor
    • You mean Dragon Ball Super Tour?

        Loading editor
    • No, I mean Doop Boop, zoop Goop Toop Soop

        Loading editor
    • why would you bring up hentai here

        Loading editor
    • Who brought up Synning?

        Loading editor
    • Please don't link illegal sites on wikia, this is against copyright policy.

        Loading editor
    • A single DBS episode buries the entire DBGT series. End.

        Loading editor
    • Surely the epsode that ended with asking Shenron to cure a Baby's headache.

        Loading editor
    • GTapologist wrote:
      Surely the epsode that ended with asking Shenron to cure a Baby's headache.

      ohh, good example. What changed your mind?

        Loading editor
    • OK no offence but Super makes the same mistake GT does, Vegeta still wants to surpass Goku, didn't it's stated that Vegeta learned that he will be Goku's second in Z?

        Loading editor
    • Vegeta still wants to surpass Goku yes...but this "mission" that Vegeta seeks has been much tonned down in DB Super if you compare to DBZ also his priority now is to project his wife and son and the planet earth.

        Loading editor
    • I liked the duration of the fights better in GT than Super, with the exception of the Goku vs Jiren fight, the length perfectly fit the episodes, 30-50 minutes in length. Most fights in GT were about 12 - 30 minutes, but most Super fights are 4 - 10 minutes. This is counting individual fights, so something like Vegeta vs Goku Black, not him vs Goku Black, Zamasu, or Fusion Zamasu.

      In GT Goku was leagues beyond Vegeta, but then they became rivals at the end of the series, that dynamic doesn't work. In DBS they have a full rivalry, Goku equaling Vegeta, then surpassing him at certain points with kaioken, but Goku could hardly ever use it, so it's like they are still rivals. But, in Super he balanced it with other stuff, in GT, he's probably masturbating or getting his body taken if he's not helping, getting stomped, or getting taken over.

      People hated the fusion rule thing with Super, but GT did the same.

      I liked SS4, but it isn't nearly comparable to SSG, SSB, SSBK, or UI from a design, or power perspective. 

      Story and characters are far better in Super, GT is mostly useless episodes in the first series, and stretched out in the next series, also, the characters were annoyingly joyful in GT, or assh***s.

        Loading editor
    • TeamUnitedNerds
      TeamUnitedNerds removed this reply because:
      I don't feel like being needlessly confrontational for once tbh
      07:37, December 26, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • The only thing that GT has over Super is more believable powerscaling. Pretty much everything else Super is better at.

      GT just treated every character who wasn't Goku or Pan like trash. Shoved them to one side or made them so humiliatingly weak.

        Loading editor
    • Don't blame power scaling, that's how much stronger they got, or determining the strengths between characters (Eg. Jiren is stronger then Frieza, Frieza beat Cabba, so Jiren is stronger then Cabba), blame the writing, they decide the amount of strength these characters get.

        Loading editor
    • Well it's not how much stronger the top characters are, it's just sometimes impossible to determine who's supposed to be stronger than who. Characters who should be much weaker end up being able to clash with far far stronger characters. So outcomes of fights are often anyone's guess these days.

        Loading editor
    • Oh yeah, that. I agree 100%. I hated it when SS Goku put up the same fight as Dyspo against that liquid guy, even though SSG Goku is comparable to Dyspo.

        Loading editor
    • Both are fine for different reasons.

        Loading editor
    • Yeah, but this isn't comparing apples and oranges. It's comparing orange jell-o (super) with grapefruit segments when you're on a diet (GT)

        Loading editor
    • The problem with GT is that the idea of turning Goku into a kid was completely stupid. The first saga was really boring and Pan was one of the most annoying characters i have ever encountered. The fights were really bad. 

      I liked the baby saga in GT. i think Super Saiyan 4 was a good idea but it wasnʻt all that strong.

      Dragon Ball Super has good fights but the writing is terrible. Everything that was established in Dragon Ball Z is being destroyed or retconned in Super such as the potara earings.In Dbz we were told that it is permanent but now it lasts an hour.

      I donʻt know for sure which is better but when comparing Super to GT, GT isnʻt so bad anymore.

        Loading editor
    • everything is being destroyed? Can you give me a single example aside from the earrings?

        Loading editor
    • I HATE the Zenos, i hate them with passion they killed my waifu Caulifla and my other 3 favorite characters from universe 6, Caba, Hit and Kale and killed Helles from Universe 2, i freaking hate the ZENOS i hope they will be erased from existence!

        Loading editor
    • Meh I honestly haven't felt anything whatsoever when Caulifla got erased but of course, Universe 6 getting erased was sad. Cabba was a good guy, he didn't deserve that. Same case with Hit and Champa. But we know they are gonna come back.

        Loading editor
    • I hope so too...i'm getting an TERRIBLE bad feeling that they wont return...

        Loading editor
    • Well someone said "if there's a new arc, they probably wouldn't come back at the end of the tournament but if this is the end of Super, they will get revived."

      I see more logical they get revived by the end of the Tournament since there is the Super Dragon Balls reward. If that isn't the wish then what? are they gonna do a mini-arc of Goku searching for the SDB again just to revive the erased universes?

        Loading editor
    • That was me who said that.

        Loading editor
    • Skar800 wrote:

      I see more logical they get revived by the end of the Tournament since there is the Super Dragon Balls reward. If that isn't the wish then what? are they gonna do a mini-arc of Goku searching for the SDB again just to revive the erased universes?

      Well, we might journey to see Universes 1 and 12. After all, they have a more developed civilization than people on Uni 7 and who knows, there might be countless fighters stronger than any of the main characters.

        Loading editor
    • Sadly we can't see them anymore since they have all been ERASED..i wish i could have seen more of Universe 6, 2 and 11!

        Loading editor
    • If they revive all the erased universe, won't the Zen-os just destroy them again since there's too many universe once more?

        Loading editor
    • Stryzzar wrote:
      If they revive all the erased universe, won't the Zen-os just destroy them again since there's too many universe once more?

      YES! EXACTLY WHAT I'VE BEEN THINKING!!

        Loading editor
    • He might let one extra universe survive.

      I thought the too many universes thing was manga only, and not the anime.

        Loading editor
    • Fankid wrote:
      He might let one extra universe survive.

      I thought the too many universes thing was manga only, and not the anime.

      It was definitely in the cartoon as well, but stated by Great Priest.

        Loading editor
    • Oh ok.

        Loading editor
    • Stryzzar wrote:
      If they revive all the erased universe, won't the Zen-os just destroy them again since there's too many universe once more?

      It's a good point but you know is not that hard to deal with it when Goku is friends with Zeno. Goku may convince him with some "Hey Zen-chan, erasing universes is no good" speech more or less, after all it was all his idea to do this not Great Priest's for example.

        Loading editor
    • Super. Because it's canon.

        Loading editor
    • Meshifuari Arimota wrote: Super. Because it's canon.

      Oh my god, whatever. Once this saga's over I'm going to write a review on why this saga is such a let down and why even GT is better than this.

        Loading editor
    • Pfff GT never bothered to make Frieza any relevant if you're gonna compare that to the tournament arc. Both in strength and as a character, Frieza remained totally the same during his little comeback in GT.

      At least in Super they bothered to give him a new arc, a new transformation and now do the impossible by having him siding with his worst enemies and apparently this change of direction worked extremely well, how many times you get to see DBZ's greatest villain teaming up with Goku?

        Loading editor
    • Skar800 wrote:

      how many times you get to see DBZ's greatest villain teaming up with Goku?

      And Nuova Shenron doesn't count. The Shadow Dragons arc was very poorly executed and boring as a whole.

        Loading editor
    • Stryzzar wrote: And Nuova Shenron doesn't count. The Shadow Dragons arc was very poorly executed and boring as a whole.

      If you want to talk execution, Jiren and the new characters of this arc was pretty much as poorly executed if not worse than the Shadow Dragons. So much potential wasted.

        Loading editor
    • Edit: I was being a dick, sorry.

        Loading editor
    • There was bound to be a "stronger than GoD" character showing up at some point. But with Shadow Dragons it's "let's fight the really weak badly designed mutant dragon that got spat out of the Dragon Balls". Out of all the consequences for Dragon Ball usage they choose the lamest option of all.

        Loading editor
    • Stryzzar wrote: There was bound to be a "stronger than GoD" character showing up at some point. But with Shadow Dragons it's "let's fight the really weak badly designed mutant dragon that got spat out of the Dragon Balls". Out of all the consequences for Dragon Ball usage they choose the lamest option of all.

      Oh yeah, like that's worse than fightung fat hoe Ribrianne, or Mary Sue Kale and Caulifla, or the ant and mr camouflage guy from universe 4, or the mutated iron skin guy who can hold his own with SAIYAN BEYOND GOD GOKU.

        Loading editor
    • Stryzzar wrote:
      There was bound to be a "stronger than GoD" character showing up at some point. But with Shadow Dragons it's "let's fight the really weak badly designed mutant dragon that got spat out of the Dragon Balls". Out of all the consequences for Dragon Ball usage they choose the lamest option of all.

      The Shadow Dragons are terrible. We got Old Kai explaining they are capable of destroying a Universe so we're like "oh these guys must be serious" but then we see the first one being just a comic relief and the rest being terrible and boring, all of this circus until we got to Nuova, Eis and Syn.

        Loading editor
    • Okay, Ribrianne was terrible, but we never saw her date anyone so she's not a hoe.

      Kale is not viewed as admirable, nor is she considered strong in many areas. She's a shrinking violet with a Mr. Hyde. Caulifla is also too arrogant to be a Mary Sue, she is not an idealized character, nor is she in any way perfect.

      Maybe before you use insults, you might want to look up what they mean.

      And the whole point of the ToP is that they're using their strongest/most powerful/most useful characters so that their whole universe doesn't get destroyed. Of course many of them are going to be a match for the diferent forms of our U7 characters.

        Loading editor
    • SuperBen 1000000 wrote:or the mutated iron skin guy who can hold his own with SAIYAN BEYOND GOD GOKU.

      Who is that, Chappil from U9? and also why you bring Saiyan Beyond God? that got retconned in the anime.

        Loading editor
    • ToP did have bad characters, but they had a far higher ratio of good characters than the Shadow Dragons or pretty much any GT arc.

      What's GT got? That guy who turns into a whip? The extradimensional mole men? Fusion Reborn 2.0?

        Loading editor
    • GT has Baby.

        Loading editor
    • Even the deaths from GT are lame, they literally kill enemies from behind, that machine guy that turns into a whip got killed by getting blasted in the back by Trunks. Both Rildo's deaths are so bad that it's actually sad to see them.

        Loading editor
    • Baby is the only villain done somewhat well with a decent arc. You know why? Because that arc took the focus off Goku and Pan for a good amount of it, giving the supporting cast done relevance even if they had to be turned evil to make that happen.

        Loading editor
    • Baby, Baby, Baby, Ohhh like.

        Loading editor
    • I love Baby's power of plasticy.

        Loading editor
    • Zamasu is better than Baby and i think he was mean't to "replace" him in the villains cast of DBZ main canon, i just hope that the movie villains are canon, at least some of them such as Cooler, Brooly, Turtles, Bojack, Garlic Jr. and Hirudegarn.

        Loading editor
    • Well, have any of them been referenced at all ever in any of the cartoons? No? Then No.

        Loading editor
    • NervousShipper wrote:
      Well, have any of them been referenced at all ever in any of the cartoons? No? Then No.

      Galick Jr. was, but in a filler arc. Does that count?

        Loading editor
    • I would say, for the anime, yes. Garlic Jr. counts. On the other hand, Goku and Vegeta fighting Kid Buu as regular super saiyans makes me want to say that it doesn't.

        Loading editor
    • Ss2, not super saiyan

        Loading editor
    • NervousShipper wrote:
      Okay, Ribrianne was terrible, but we never saw her date anyone so she's not a hoe.

      Kale is not viewed as admirable, nor is she considered strong in many areas. She's a shrinking violet with a Mr. Hyde. Caulifla is also too arrogant to be a Mary Sue, she is not an idealized character, nor is she in any way perfect.

      Maybe before you use insults, you might want to look up what they mean.

      And the whole point of the ToP is that they're using their strongest/most powerful/most useful characters so that their whole universe doesn't get destroyed. Of course many of them are going to be a match for the diferent forms of our U7 characters.

      Kale and Caulifla are basically an idolized female character that every one wants, not to mention, just using what people of the community think of them, since a majority hate them and call them that.

      And oh yeah, powerful huh. That's why they are all weak as s%*#. This current arc is a let down, even worse than the Shadow Dragons because it is both BORING AND PREDICTABLE. 

      And for the rest of you, why nitpick on GT? If you want to nitpick so bad, I can say the ring outs in the two tournament arcs are also very lame. 3 characters getting trapped in a jar? Check. 2 characters being cop outed? Check. So many characters being taken down by a single beam to make things quicker? Might not be lame, but it's a writing device I do not admire. More than 20 episodes worth of cringe? Check. 

      And for Jiren? Oh yeah, fighting someone stronger than god is bound to happen. Just like Savitar from The Flash and you know what happened to him? People hated him and for some reason even though they are basically executed the same, the same people who hate Savitar like Jiren. Like why? Jiren's execution is just as bad as Savitar's. Both are gods that are so powerful, they could basically wipe out their enemy in a snap. Yet, they both don't do jack s%*# and just either sit in the sidelines, or have them written out so then they do quit to make the conflict belivable.

      Stryzzar, your Shadow Dragons must be powerful yet they are not statement can be the same to all of the terrible characters in the ToP, since all of the universes had a higher mortal level, except for 9, than U7 yet 75% of them are weaker than U7. And before you give me the "mortal levels are to measure life" crap, lemme tell you that power levels tend to measure ki as well, and ki is basically life force. So they could've done so much with the mortal level and actually made the characters as strong as Ultimate Gohan or higher and so U7 would have to use the strategy Gohan came up with. But like the Shadow Dragons, the characters turned out to be super weak and so they didn't have to use it, making the first half of the arc completely worthless.

      And Skar and Stryzzar, let's see how the ratio of good characters there are compared with the bad characters.

      Bad characters: All of Team Universe 2, Team Universe 10, Team Universe 9, Damom and Gamisaras, Nink, all of Team Universe 3 except for Anilaza, Kale and Caulifla, and Frost.

      Good characters: All of Team Universe 7, Cabba, Hit, Dr. Rota, Jiren, Toppo, Dyspo, Anilaza

      Rest are not worth mentioning or are a mixed bag. So they should probably count as bad characters to because they are not even developed nor worthy to be in the good character category.

      So yeah, I pretty much overextended myself here. That's my case, and going to save the rest for my review. Nights!

        Loading editor
    • I actually like GT, not as much as Super, but it just didn’t work, the whole Goku going kid and all that, the episodes to fill in arcs were also completely un enjoyable, but in Super they were tolerable.

        Loading editor
    • Well both Bojack and Turtles are Frieza's servants/minions so there is an conection and Cooler is his BROTHER so i guess some of them can be considered canon not to mention that Hirudegarn's movie fits perfectly in the DBZ main canon.

        Loading editor
    • @SuperBen, that's your own biased opinion that all of the ToP universes were bad characters. There are countless ToP characters who have been well received. I'm taking into account the whole fandom's opinion on GT's characters, which barring Baby and Nuova has been very negative. GT's characters were either one-note and forgettable, or unoriginal and redoing what had already been done.

      If you're going to make that same accusation with Goku Black/Zamasu. Even if they borrowed some ideas, they changed enough of that to make it feel like its own thing, and overall the tone and pacing of slowly reveling the mystery was done well enough.

        Loading editor
    • Cooler appeared in GT didn’t he, so that fits. Janemba was stated to be in the same time period, so he could be canon as well, though I doubt it. Broly, lord slug, and a few others can’t due to contradicting the time period.

        Loading editor
    • Regardless, Super isn't canon.

        Loading editor
    • Nor is GT

        Loading editor
    • Stryzzar wrote:
      @SuperBen, that's your own biased opinion that all of the ToP universes were bad characters. There are countless ToP characters who have been well received. I'm taking into account the whole fandom's opinion on GT's characters, which barring Baby and Nuova has been very negative. GT's characters were either one-note and forgettable, or unoriginal and redoing what had already been done.

      Then where's your source then? Give me where you get that because this isn't biased. It is the coments I see whenever I watch DB Super episodes on YouTube. As well as some of these very forums. Give me yours and I'll show you mine. And what you said about GT can again be said about the new characters in the tournament arcs.

        Loading editor
    • I guess the legendary super Saiyan in the main canon is in fact Kale until her tragic death and Brooly being the non-canon version of the legendary super Saiyan.

        Loading editor
    • My source? Have you literally been shutting everything DB Super out for the past few months? There are people everywhere over the internet saying such and such from the ToP are characters they like. While you always come in and go "they all suck, only Zamasu is okay".

        Loading editor
    • GTapologist wrote:

      Regardless, Super isn't canon.

      Dragon Ball isn't canon in general

        Loading editor
    • @superben 1000000 @tesshu @stryzzar

      Do not use the excuse that other people like them or hate them, that does not matter, opinions aren’t objective, so explain why and who you like and hate.

      Personally I like most of the ToP characters because they expand the lore of the series in a really good way.

        Loading editor
    • Stryzzar wrote:

      GTapologist wrote:

      Regardless, Super isn't canon.

      Dragon Ball isn't canon in general

      Yeah, there is no canon in DB.

        Loading editor
    • Fankid wrote: @superben 1000000 @tesshu @stryzzar

      Do not use the excuse that other people like them or hate them, that does not matter, opinions aren’t objective, so explain why and who you like and hate.

      Personally I like most of the characters because they expand the lore of the series in a really good way.

      Well I'm just illustrating his point of "all of ToP characters are bad" makes no sense.

        Loading editor
    • I know, but i’M saying elaborate, don’t just used popularity as a basis. I know you are saying Ben was wrong about them not being popular.

        Loading editor
    • Well i liked ALL the characters in DB Super so far, except for the Zenos when they erased my favorite Universes 6 and 2 also i do consider DB Super canon.

        Loading editor
    • When looking at videos, it came to light that pretty much everyone except Kefla and ribrianne were liked. I hate both of them.

      Dyspo is my favourite character in the ToP. I also hate Zeno, his voice is annoying.

      I agree Super is the current canon, which means it’s main canon, why do people not get that?

        Loading editor
    • Seriously?! i think a lot of people liked Caulifla i mean she is such likeable. determined, strong-led and beautiful female character, there is absolute NO REASON to dislike her and she didn't deserved that fate she had, Goku was going to be her master much like Vegeta was the master of Cabba.

        Loading editor
    • I wasn’t talking about her, just Kefla.

      I’m fine with caulifa, except when she and kale made goku the villain.

        Loading editor
    • Personally I like Caulifla, but I have seen the same reasons for disliking her pop up. It's because she gets powerful way too easily. Learning to go Super Saiyan just from hearing a crude explanation from Cabba, then getting Super Saiyan 2 in record time on top of that. If it wasn't for this, she's actually brilliant in terms of personality and showing that ladies can make a name for themselves in a male dominant world.

        Loading editor
    • I guess that was just some fight between rivals but it seems that both Caulifla and Kale accepted that Goku was the stronger and more experienced fighter of them all because he just is.

        Loading editor
    • When people say that they hate her because of her ability to get strong really fast, I say that they must hate gohan, and goki then.

        Loading editor
    • I'll take Kefla over Kale though. Kale is really annoying.

        Loading editor
    • Fankid wrote: When people say that they hate her because of her ability to get strong really fast, I say that they must hate gohan, and goki then.

      Gohan's a different case because his power had a lot of foreshadowing and explanation. Caulifla just jumps high for the sake of it.

      And it's not like Goku hasn't gone without criticism for how he always gets the new forms, always beats the final boss, always has to be the strongest of all.

        Loading editor
    • “You didn’t let her hit you”-Kale.

      Caulifa had explaination, the exact same as gohan’s, her potential, which did have build up throughout the entire tournament.

      Not really the point, the point is people love him, and he went from nought to his base being equal to super saiyan god. Also, gohan killed cell, in a group they killed anariza, and they have had him not kill, or help kill movie characters.

      Also, this is the tingly back thing explained https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zFqAvcuuCeA

        Loading editor
    • Female characters that are shy in anime tends to be annoying sometines but i do like Kale, she has a great essence in her of strong and capable fighter and she has(had) a lot of potential to be an heroine and fight alongside the Z fighters to protect both her Universe and Universe 7 from threats such as evil armies and villains.

        Loading editor
    • Fankid wrote:

      “You didn’t let her hit you”-Kale.

      Caulifa had explaination, the exact same as gohan’s, her potential, which did have build up throughout the entire tournament.

      Not really the point, the point is people love him, and he went from nought to his base being equal to super saiyan god.

      Not for ages though. She was just unbelievably powerful upon introduction.

      Fair enough. But Goku went through it gradually. The main criticism for Caulifla was the speed at which it happened.

      Tesshu wrote:

      Female characters that are shy in anime tends to be annoying sometines but i do like Kale, she has a great essence in her of strong and capable fighter and she has(had) a lot of potential to be an heroine and fight alongside the Z fighters to protect both her Universe and Universe 7 from threats such as evil armies and villains.

      It's her voice and how she's always like "nee-san" to Caulifla that irks me. Then there's the fact she's basically a version of Broly in the main show, which I was never keen on in the first place.

        Loading editor
    • @stryzzar Fair point. When kale became controlled ss berserk, she sounded like that one piece character who was mountaineers sized but sounded like a person high on helium. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OjWcFJsg-yg

        Loading editor
    • I agree, Caulifla is definitely likeable and standing out of the many bland characters we got. If only ALL of the chrarcters are like her: possessing a unique character and is not just some stereotype. I mean, all of the characters posses no pesonality at all and tend to be stereotypes of something. The Kamikaze Girls are the Magic Girls, Katopesla is Kamen Rider, the Pride Troopers are Super Sentai Rangers, Team Universe 3 is the Megazords/Transformers, Team Universes 10, 4, and 9 are the animal people. And they don't have any uniqueness that makes each character stand out at all. They just didn't live up to the hype at all and ended up very dissapointing. A lot of them got the Marvel Movie villain treatment.

        Loading editor
    • TeamUnitedNerds
      TeamUnitedNerds removed this reply because:
      .
      03:46, December 28, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • Wow, we actually got SuperBen to agree on something. Well kudos to your last reply. The bit about Caulifla anyway.

        Loading editor
    • Caulifla is a stereotype, she's female Saiyan fanservice, ooh, strong aggressive girl that wants to fight and get stronger as much as Goku. I like that Toriyama's twist on this was giving her a submissive female protege love interest that turns into Broly. 

        Loading editor
    • GT's originally introduced characters are better than Super's hands down, while Super has a quantity of characters who revolve around their one gimmick as their sole personality trait, GT's villains have depth if not personality. 

        Loading editor
    • GTapologist wrote:
      GT's originally introduced characters are better than Super's hands down

      Oh like the Bon Para Brothers, Doltaki, Cardinal Mutchy Mutchy and frankly, more than half of the Shadow Dragons?

        Loading editor
    • GTapologist wrote:

      GT's originally introduced characters are better than Super's hands down, while Super has a quantity of characters who revolve around their one gimmick as their sole personality trait, GT's villains have depth if not personality. 

      Oh yes.

      The Pilaf Saga in Space

      Another Evil Vegeta

      Tuffle Dr. Gero

      Fusion Reborn 2.0 WITH ANDROIDS!

      Gimmicky villain-of-the-week Shenrons


      Such amazing, original, never-been-done-before characters! So exciting I fell asleep while watching this god cell tier animation.

        Loading editor
    • You guys forgot about Lord Luud, a worse version of mosco (mule is the person, not the robot, which is what i am talking about)

      Luud | Dragon Ball Wiki | FANDOM powered by Wikia

      Mule | Dragon Ball Wiki | FANDOM powered by Wikia

      The GT villains have practically no depth, aside from Baby, they revolve around the mindless villain, the bad becomes good, or the henchmen gimmicks. Their motivations aren't even that good, the villains of Super have great motivations, the ToP arc and Beerus come to mind when talking about it, they also expand the lore, which GT pretty much only does a few times, some of which contradicts the anime, and not in a retcon way, such as the fusion rules, the tuffles, and the saiyan time line

        Loading editor
    • I would not be opposed to SS4 becoming a thing, (even as a form stronger than Blue, as ridiculous as that sounds) if it means we could get shadow dragons of Super Shenron (who aren't weak as fuck, stupid looking, or jokes) I want a redesign of Nuova.


      And I would have Paparoni be the creator of Baby.... and be given a name

        Loading editor
    • @NervousShipper

      That would be ok for the series, after all Bardock, Kale, etc were inspired by or taken from non canon material and were well recieved.

        Loading editor
    • You know what I want to see? Goku Black invades the GT timeline and kills all the GT characters, especially GT Kid Goku.

        Loading editor
    • GT's reception already did that.

        Loading editor
    • Which tuffle is better.

      Zarbuto | Dragon Ball Wiki | FANDOM powered by Wikia

      Baby | Dragon Ball Wiki | FANDOM powered by Wikia

      i'd go for baby, it was close, zar's magical girl form nearly swayed me.

        Loading editor
    • Santa ClausDr. Raichi is the best Tuffle.

        Loading editor
    • The only good Tuffle is a dead tuffle... so all of them are the best.

        Loading editor
    • I can't believe i forgot, point for Super having both Female and Male Super Saiyans, Toriyama had no idea how they'd be designed, but it worked.

      But i have to give a point to GT, SS4 can absorb energy normally, Super Goku can only do it under duress, or if another character, Frieza did it, willingly spares energy. DBGT - Baby Vegeta's Second Revenge Death Ball Against Goku (SSJ4) ~ [2K Remastered HD - YouTube]

        Loading editor
    • BH Ouji
      BH Ouji removed this reply because:
      Forum error
      08:09, December 28, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • NervousShipper wrote:
      The only good Tuffle is a dead tuffle

      Thumbs up bro

        Loading editor
    • I don't see why the audience wouldn't prefer the show where they aren't symbolised by annoying alien children.

        Loading editor
    • Because they aren't symoblised and annoyed by quarter alien children.

        Loading editor
    • The best one will be the GT Reboot that uses what we gained from Super, like the other universes, has Dr.'s Myuu, Gero, and Paparoni create a better character than Super 17 (like Super 16, the fusion of Aniraza and a recreated Android 16) and has Adult Goten and Trunks together... and doesn't have Vegeta's disgusting mustache.

        Loading editor
    • Good Plot for GT:

      Cut out the Super Dragon Balls, never ever use them in both 2 seasons of GT, and make the reason for going to space an attack by Rildo. This cuts out almost a dozen boring episodes, and makes Goku an adult. 

      The Baby saga was fine, but maybe it needs a touch up here and there, like most of Pan's lines and making it more about Baby, his minions, the Kais, and Goku instead of Pan appearing every 10 seconds. This also goes for the Shadow Dragon arc, though not in fight scenes, like the one with that garbage (literally) shenron.

      I loved the Super 17 arc, the fight with SS Goku and 17 was excellent, but they should have cut down the Frieza and Cell fight, or cut it out, maybe they could have gone to Earth and be blasted to atoms.

      I already added a note about this arc.

      Overall make the show less kid friendly, Dragon Ball was targeted, and watched by mostly kids, yet it had violence, less than Z, but it makes the fights really good.

        Loading editor
    • Well GT should be heavily edited to add in the elements of Super, so that GT can finally be canon.

      If they want to drop it down from the universal level, they could have Goku and Vegeta go off with Whis during the time skip and have Goten, Trunks, and Mai be the mains. (because everyone has to be straight smh). And then they could go SS4 (yeah, I know I've already said this)

      ---

      If Zalama is a Namekian god, I hope he's absorbed by Piccolo

        Loading editor
    • Not a bad idea. If this GT follows DBZ Anime canon, they'd be Galaxy Level.

        Loading editor
    • NervousShipper wrote:
      Well GT should be heavily edited to add in the elements of Super, so that GT can finally be canon.

      If they want to drop it down from the universal level, they could have Goku and Vegeta go off with Whis during the time skip and have Goten, Trunks, and Mai be the mains. (because everyone has to be straight smh). And then they could go SS4 (yeah, I know I've already said this)

      ---

      If Zalama is a Namekian god, I hope he's absorbed by Piccolo

      No amount of retconning is going to make Super canon.

        Loading editor
    • A reboot would be worth watching. And some refinement over DBS could be good. And also have it's own identity instead of getting ideas from fanservice and stop trying to be DB while trying to be DBZ at the same time.

        Loading editor
    • That joke is really tired now, Blaze.

        Loading editor
    • The fight between Dyspo and Kunshi vs Goku and Hit is what Super's fights should aim for, high speed fights, techniques, teamwork, and problem solving by finding a weakness in the technique. The only thing is it should have aimed for 15 - 20 minutes instead of 5 - 12 minutes for an average fight.

        Loading editor
    • NervousShipper wrote:
      That joke is really tired now, Blaze.

      So is yours (that there's such a thing as "canon" as an absolute term).

      Super is not canon to GT, just like GT is not canon to Super. GT is canon to the entirety of DB and DBZ, while Super has yet to make its connection between the Majin Buu saga and the Peaceful World saga clear, so I'm gonna hold off on judging that. Regardless, neither is "canon" in the absolute sense, because such a thing does not exist, outside of fans who think their headcanon is "true canon".

        Loading editor
    • Fankid wrote:
      The fight between Dyspo and Kunshi vs Goku and Hit is what Super's fights should aim for, high speed fights, techniques, teamwork, and problem solving by finding a weakness in the technique. The only thing is it should have aimed for 15 - 20 minutes instead of 5 - 12 minutes for an average fight.

      And to have some emotion in it as well. Have the fights impact the characters. Kind of like the Star Wars Original Trilogy fights while having the coolness of the Prequel Trilogy fights. And if they would want to add the talk scenes, answer some questions that ACTUALLY MATTER.

      Blaziken rjcf wrote:

      So is yours (that there's such a thing as "canon" as an absolute term).
      Super is not canon to GT, just like GT is not canon to Super. GT is canon to the entirety of DB and DBZ, while Super has yet to make its connection between the Majin Buu saga and the Peaceful World saga clear, so I'm gonna hold off on judging that. Regardless, neither is "canon" in the absolute sense, because such a thing does not exist, outside of fans who think their headcanon is "true canon".

      Yes, agree 100%!

        Loading editor
    • Like the fight with Gohan and Obuni

        Loading editor
    • @Blaizen rjfc

      That's fine. What you said is abundantly true.

        Loading editor
    • SuperBen 1000000
      SuperBen 1000000 removed this reply because:
      alsdjhf;awihtawe
      02:02, December 29, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • Fankid
      Fankid removed this reply because:
      Don't need it anymore
      02:03, December 29, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • Yeah it's gonna be so fun to come back here when they link the Peaceful World saga with the end of Super.

        Loading editor
    • He didn't say it will never happen, he said it's not happened yet.

        Loading editor
    • Skar800 wrote:
      Yeah it's gonna be so fun to come back here when they link the Peaceful World saga with the end of Super.

      Yeah, looking back after seeing it will definitely make me laugh because we were like, "Oh my god, this s%*# isn't canon or f%*# GT it isn't canon." or "How will they link it, it is IMPOSSIBLE!". I see that how they will link it will definitely blow our minds and we can all laugh for how stupid we were.

        Loading editor
    • Skar800 wrote:
      Yeah it's gonna be so fun to come back here when they link the Peaceful World saga with the end of Super.

      What of it? It'd just make Super canon to the entirety of DB and DBZ, just like GT is now. IMO, however, the fact that Bulla's known date of birth doesn't work with Super's timeline means Super is not canon to the Peaceful World saga (and thus not canon to the entirety of DBZ), but that's just me. I know some people with vested interests will always handwave such inconsistencies away as insignificant to establish whether one thing is canon to another, even if the inconsistency requires a warp in space time to fix.

        Loading editor
    • Neither I accused him for saying such thing, it just may just settle all this debate about "Super being canon" and stuff.

        Loading editor
    • @blaziken Actually the birth of Bulla does, Bulla was born after Pan in the original dragon ball,

        Loading editor
    • Skar800 wrote:
      Neither I accused him for saying such thing, it just may just settle all this debate about "Super being canon" and stuff.

      Only to those who speak in incomplete sentences (canon to what?). The rest of us won't really give a crap, because we don't believe one story being canon to another affects either of them, in terms of quality.

        Loading editor
    • Fankid wrote:
      Good Plot for GT:

      Cut out the Super Dragon Balls, never ever use them in both 2 seasons of GT, and make the reason for going to space an attack by Rildo. This cuts out almost a dozen boring episodes, and makes Goku an adult. 

      The Baby saga was fine, but maybe it needs a touch up here and there, like most of Pan's lines and making it more about Baby, his minions, the Kais, and Goku instead of Pan appearing every 10 seconds. This also goes for the Shadow Dragon arc, though not in fight scenes, like the one with that garbage (literally) shenron.

      I loved the Super 17 arc, the fight with SS Goku and 17 was excellent, but they should have cut down the Frieza and Cell fight, or cut it out, maybe they could have gone to Earth and be blasted to atoms.

      I already added a note about this arc.

      Overall make the show less kid friendly, Dragon Ball was targeted, and watched by mostly kids, yet it had violence, less than Z, but it makes the fights really good.

      Super is much more subdued for younger audiences than GT, GT at least has blood.

        Loading editor
    • Are you kidding me, Super has much more blood, it's like you reverse facts, also, that's not what i meant, i meant characters like Pan. 

        Loading editor
    • Fankid wrote:
      @blaziken

      Actually the birth of Bulla does, Bulla was born after Pan in the original dragon ball,

      Trivia on Bulla's article explains that her date of birth was "changed" (euphemism for "blatantly disregarded by Super", I'm guessing), as she was not born when she should've been in Super.

        Loading editor
    • Anyways, if things are going to be judged on canon, a Dragon Ball manga with the name Akira Toriyama on it is canon, everything else is compared to side stories.

        Loading editor
    • Fankid wrote:
      Are you kidding me, Super has much more blood, it's like you reverse facts, also, that's not what i meant, i meant characters like Pan. 

      Where did you see blood in Super? Seriously, tell me the episodes. I remember seeing blood in the Goku Black arc, when Black stabs Goku, and that's it. EDIT: I don't think Goku bled even when Beerus stuck his hand through his abdomen.

        Loading editor
    • GTapologist wrote:
      Anyways, if things are going to be judged on canon, a Dragon Ball manga with the name Akira Toriyama on it is canon, everything else is compared to side stories.

      Canon to what? Why does everyone keep talking of canon as if it were an absolute term?

        Loading editor
    • @blaziken

      I'll be back

        Loading editor
    • Fankid wrote:
      @blaziken

      I'll be back

      --Arnold Schwarzenegger

        Loading editor
    • Someone should also teach people what the word "retcon" means.

      Edit: GT was never canon. Show me the manga that makes it so. GT is Toei fanfiction

        Loading editor
    • NervousShipper wrote:
      Someone should also teach people what the word "retcon" means.

      Edit: GT was never canon. Show me the manga that makes it so.

      Retcon: An incompetent and egocentric writer's way to explain an error in their writing by claiming reality changed.

      NervousShipper, I get that you're a comic book fanatic, but whatever headcanon you made up is not an absolute canon, and is not relevant to basic linguistics.

        Loading editor
    • Ok, it turns out the series has no blood, well it has some like a bit of blood trickling down the lip Blood in Dragon Ball Super? / ¿Sangre en Dragon Ball Super? - YouTube, but it has far more violence, Gohan having holes blasted into him by frieza, Goku's body being blasted right through by a laser, Goku being stabbed in the abdomen by Beerus, Goku getting stabbed, Goku having another series of holes blasted into him by Goku Black. There is some violence in GT, but at most it's just hitting, like Gohan getting punched by large spikes was nothing.

        Loading editor
    • Blaziken rjcf wrote:
      GTapologist wrote:
      Anyways, if things are going to be judged on canon, a Dragon Ball manga with the name Akira Toriyama on it is canon, everything else is compared to side stories.
      Canon to what? Why does everyone keep talking of canon as if it were an absolute term?

      ikr? NervousShipper is just a GT hater. So is everyone else who keeps calling crap in DB non-canon.

        Loading editor
    • Blaziken rjcf wrote:
      Skar800 wrote:
      Neither I accused him for saying such thing, it just may just settle all this debate about "Super being canon" and stuff.
      Only to those who speak in incomplete sentences (canon to what?). The rest of us won't really give a crap, because we don't believe one story being canon to another affects either of them, in terms of quality.

      And I, personally, don't give a crap if 10-12 dudes believe GT "is canon to the entirey of DB and DBZ" a sequel with very poor executed ideas safe for one or two (Baby and last Shadow Dragons being frecuently mentioned) but more importantly, where's Toriyama's involvment on this? more specifically, where is the manga? If I understand correctly Toriyama just did the design for some of the characters and that's it, TOEI took them for their own "sequel" which is pretty much dead with Super around.
      Finally to your question, I don't believe it was incomplete, do I need to say "Dragon Ball Super would be canon to the franchise if it's linked to the Peaceful World Saga which is part of Dragon Ball Z"

        Loading editor
    • @superben You can like GT without thinking it's canon, i'm an example of that. 

        Loading editor
    • Fankid wrote:
      @superben

      You can like GT without thinking it's canon, i'm an example of that.

      Most fans.

        Loading editor
    • Canon means the main continuity or universe, so saying that Super is non canon is just not true.

        Loading editor
    • Fankid wrote:
      Ok, it turns out the series has no blood, well it has some like a bit of blood trickling down the lip Blood in Dragon Ball Super? / ¿Sangre en Dragon Ball Super? - YouTube, but it has far more violence, Gohan having holes blasted into him by frieza, Goku's body being blasted right through by a laser, Goku being stabbed in the abdomen by Beerus, Goku getting stabbed, Goku having another series of holes blasted into him by Goku Black. There is some violence in GT, but at most it's just hitting, like Gohan getting punched by large spikes was nothing.

      There is hardly any blood in "Goku Time" as well, the only time I recall there was blood was when Omega stabbed Vegeta with the Dragon Thunder technique. Then again, I could be wrong since it's been a while since I didn't watched that.

        Loading editor
    • Fankid wrote:
      Ok, it turns out the series has no blood, well it has some like a bit of blood trickling down the lip, but it has far more violence, Gohan having holes blasted into him by frieza, Goku's body being blasted right through by a laser, Goku being stabbed in the abdomen by Beerus, Goku getting stabbed, Goku having another series of holes blasted into him by Goku Black. There is some violence in GT, but at most it's just hitting, like Gohan getting punched by large spikes was nothing.

      Vegeta got impaled by Omega Shenron, Goku was blinded when Eis (implicitly) cut his eyes, Baby literally slithered into people through openings on their skin, Goku got absorbed (albeit temporarily), Omega is literally obliterated, Baby wipes out an entire city just for kicks, Baby is blasted into the sun, Piccolo commits suicide, Goku rips through Super 17's body, Pan nearly drowns, Eis gets a hole in the chest, Nuova is ripped apart from the inside out by Omega. That's just reading the summaries on this wiki, looking at the images, and from memory.

        Loading editor
    • Fankid wrote:
      Canon means the main continuity or universe, so saying that Super is non canon is just not true.

      Except that's not what canon means, and "main continuity" is not something you get to decide.

        Loading editor
    • Canon (fiction) - Wikipedia you are correct on the first part, however, your second point makes no sense, how is super not the main continuity right now.

        Loading editor
    • Skar800 wrote:
      Blaziken rjcf wrote:
      Skar800 wrote:
      Neither I accused him for saying such thing, it just may just settle all this debate about "Super being canon" and stuff.
      Only to those who speak in incomplete sentences (canon to what?). The rest of us won't really give a crap, because we don't believe one story being canon to another affects either of them, in terms of quality.
      And I, personally, don't give a crap if 10-12 dudes believe GT "is canon to the entirey of DB and DBZ" a sequel with very poor executed ideas safe for one or two (Baby and last Shadow Dragons being frecuently mentioned) but more importantly, where's Toriyama's involvment on this? more specifically, where is the manga? If I understand correctly Toriyama just did the design for some of the characters and that's it, TOEI took them for their own "sequel" which is pretty much dead with Super around.
      Finally to your question, I don't believe it was incomplete, do I need to say "Dragon Ball Super would be canon to the franchise if it's linked to the Peaceful World Saga which is part of Dragon Ball Z"

      You don't have to give a crap, because it is. GT follows DB and DBZ's stories, just like Super is being inserted into Z, between the Majin Buu and Peaceful World sagas. Thus, GT is canon to DB and DBZ in their entireties, and Super is canon to (at least) DB and DBZ up until the Majin Buu saga.

        Loading editor
    • Fankid wrote:
      Canon (fiction) - Wikipedia you are correct on the first part, however, your second point makes no sense, how is super not the main continuity right now.

      Most recent, sure. "Main", however? That's not something you get to define. You can pick whichever criteria you'd like, but the problem is, they'll always be your criteria. It's headcanon disguised as a fictional entity called "canon", and nothing more.

        Loading editor
    • It's not something you get to decide either, Blaze. Super is what's running now, with involvment from the creator, and a manga to go along with it. It's canon. Not headcanon. Canon. DBZ isn't the end all be all of canon. Super is, now.

        Loading editor
    • @blaze Due to Super being the main story, which canons now revolve around, it should be the current main continuity, i had canon and continuity mixed up before Continuity (fiction) - Wikipedia, continuity is the story universe, Super is the main continuity no doubt, however, that's only for now.

      @shipper

      thank you

        Loading editor
    • Blaziken rjcf wrote:
      You don't have to give a crap, because it is. GT follows DB and DBZ's stories, just like Super is being inserted into Z, between the Majin Buu and Peaceful World sagas. Thus, GT is canon to DB and DBZ in their entireties, and Super is canon to (at least) DB and DBZ up until the Majin Buu saga.

      Yeah but I just wonder so far, it looks Super is killing "GT is canon to DB and DBZ in their entireties"
      Kibito Kai is no more in Super and Shin made clear they don't want to have anything with fusions so you better hope they find a reasonable excuse to merge again at the end of this.
      Also, what is gonna happen with Mai's age as well?

        Loading editor
    • Oh my god, the backfire effect is real.

        Loading editor
    • Ok, Super can't be part of the Manga, this is because it has Gregory, it also can't be part of Dragon Ball Z, that's GT property, but it can be part of Kai, Super has used cutscenes from Kai, Super doesn't contradict Kai either. Don't give me it isn't set in stone, i'm talking about right now, this could be changed, but it's not yet, so right now Kai can be canon, and likely is.

        Loading editor
    • SuperBen 1000000 wrote:
      Oh my god, the backfire effect is real.

      The irony of that coming from you is delicious.

        Loading editor
    • Fankid wrote:
      Ok, Super can't be apart of the Manga, this is because it has Gregory, it also can't be apart of Dragon Ball Z, that's GT property, but it can be part of Kai, Super has used cutscenes from Kai, Super doesn't contradict Kai either. Don't give me it isn't set in stone, i'm talking about right now, this could be changed, but it's not yet, so right now Kai can be canon, and likely is.

      apart and a part are not the same word.

        Loading editor
    • it was an accident, also, i know they aren't the same, apart is the opposite.

        Loading editor
    • Yes, twice.

        Loading editor
    • didn't notice

        Loading editor
    • It's not so bad, at least you didn't write "could of" instead of "could have". That's as inexcusable  and disgusting as Ajit Pai striking down Net Neutrality.

      Edit: removed the politics.

        Loading editor
    • Fankid
      Fankid removed this reply because:
      gg
      03:20, December 29, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • True, Ajit Pai is disgusting, at least net neutrality isn't a law yet. Are you American?

        Loading editor
    • Canadian, but this is going to affect everyone.

        Loading editor
    • I'm Australian

        Loading editor
    • My, even I can't take a break from politics. Vietnamese, I am. This will be an "intresting" experience to say the least.

        Loading editor
    • seems nobody can

        Loading editor
    • The problem with America is complacency. No one is doing anything to get back at that monster.

        Loading editor
    • Tell that to the whole of youtube.

      I have to go for today, good bye

        Loading editor
    • Fankid wrote:
      Tell that to the whole of youtube.

      I have to go for today, good bye

      I'm thinking more along the lines of the letters in the first harry potter movie. Bury his house in them

        Loading editor
    • Fankid wrote:
      I'm Australian


      Soooooo hows surviving the Kangaroos of mass destruction mate? :)

        Loading editor
    • Why can't people get over that Super won't lead on into GT? sure they could make it the same continuity, but they won't. They're intentionally trying to distance Super from GT by piling on the inconsistencies.

        Loading editor
    • BH Ouji wrote:
      Fankid wrote:
      I'm Australian

      Soooooo hows surviving the Kangaroos of mass destruction mate? :)

      Easy

        Loading editor
    • @BH

      They're more common in Perth than Adelaide, but it's pretty easy.

      @0551E80Y

      Are you Australian as well.

        Loading editor
    • @0551E80Y

      Are you Australian as well.

      Yep, it's in my name. I'm from Sydney.

        Loading editor
    • Stryzzar wrote:
      Why can't people get over that Super won't lead on into GT? sure they could make it the same continuity, but they won't. They're intentionally trying to distance Super from GT by piling on the inconsistencies.

      Who have you seen doing that, my comments in jest notwithstanding? I've literally said that Super is not canon to GT, and vice-versa, but both are canon to DB and DBZ (with Super's connection to the Peaceful World saga not being clear at this time).

        Loading editor
    • NervousShipper wrote:
      It's not something you get to decide either, Blaze. Super is what's running now, with involvment from the creator, and a manga to go along with it. It's canon. Not headcanon. Canon. DBZ isn't the end all be all of canon. Super is, now.

      Like I said, your criteria are just that: yours. It's headcanon all the way down.

        Loading editor
    • Fankid wrote:
      @blaze

      Due to Super being the main story, which canons now revolve around, it should be the current main continuity, i had canon and continuity mixed up before Continuity (fiction) - Wikipedia, continuity is the story universe, Super is the main continuity no doubt, however, that's only for now.

      @shipper

      thank you

      Your headcanon is not relevant to the fact that "canon" is a relative term. No matter what you choose to believe, two different series can be canon to a third, without those two being canon to each other.

        Loading editor
    • Blaziken rjcf wrote:

      Who have you seen doing that, my comments in jest notwithstanding? I've literally said that Super is not canon to GT, and vice-versa, but both are canon to DB and DBZ (with Super's connection to the Peaceful World saga not being clear at this time).

      Oh, I've seen plenty of ppl trying to theorise how Super can lead on into GT. The most common choice is the Super Dragon Balls restores all the inconsistencies to fit GT.

        Loading editor
    • Stryzzar wrote:

      Blaziken rjcf wrote:

      Who have you seen doing that, my comments in jest notwithstanding? I've literally said that Super is not canon to GT, and vice-versa, but both are canon to DB and DBZ (with Super's connection to the Peaceful World saga not being clear at this time).

      Oh, I've seen plenty of ppl trying to theorise how Super can lead on into GT. The most common choice is the Super Dragon Balls restores all the inconsistencies to fit GT.

      That's what happens when you have Super Dragon Balls capable of fixing any problem.

        Loading editor
    • Goku: Please make me and Vegeta weaker! Change Hell to include a tickle machine. Re-fuse Shin and Kibito together. Pretty peas!

        Loading editor
    • @blaze

      i said it's the main continuity which canon stories revolved around, you ignored that point and said stories can have different connections, which i agree with, and used it to try and devalue my point, so it doesn't even adress the point, in a very small way it helps my point.

      @stryzzar

      Vegeta: Add in the concept of positive energy, and make it so forms lessen the time limit of metamorn fusion while you're at it Goku.

        Loading editor
    • Fankid wrote:
      @blaze

      i said it's the main continuity which canon stories revolved around, you ignored that point and said stories can have different connections, which i agree with, and used it to try and devalue my point, so it doesn't even adress the point, in a very small way it helps my point.

      I already explained why "main continuity" is not objective. I won't repeat myself.

        Loading editor
    • No you did not, you said canons can revolve around different canons, which does nothing, that doesn't devalue Super from being the Main canon, especially since there is no confirmed canon connections to it right now.

        Loading editor
    • Fankid wrote:
      No you did not, you said canons can revolve around different canons, which does nothing, that doesn't devalue Super from being the Main canon, especially since there is no confirmed canon connections to it right now.

      Thank you for proving I'm wasting my time talking to you.

        Loading editor
    • Main continuity is the consistency of characters, plot, objects and places, Continuity (fiction) - Wikipedia, Super is that at the moment.

        Loading editor
    • Fankid wrote:
      You're wasting my time you hypocrite, MAIN CONTINUITY is the consistency of characters, plot, objects and places, Continuity (fiction) - Wikipedia, Super is that at the moment.

      K.

        Loading editor
    • Sorry for being disrespectful, i just don't feel well, i'll edit that first part out.

        Loading editor
    • NervousShipper wrote:
      Someone should also teach people what the word "retcon" means.

      Edit: GT was never canon. Show me the manga that makes it so. GT is Toei fanfiction

      Becuase Toei put their newest fanfiction into paper and hired an actual fan to make it = canon?

        Loading editor
    • Forme GT takes place in a alternate reality/timeline much like Dragon Ball Z online, neither of them are canon in my opinion.

        Loading editor
    • Tesshu wrote:
      Dragon Ball Z online

      My this was just as cringy as "dbz super". I don't remember who said that, but it was just as cringy as this.

        Loading editor
    • Stryzzar wrote: Why can't people get over that Super won't lead on into GT? sure they could make it the same continuity, but they won't. They're intentionally trying to distance Super from GT by piling on the inconsistencies.

      Well, if that's what you think. But wouldn't that mean they are also trying to retcon the peaceful world saga as well? Am just saying.

        Loading editor
    • Who knows? Perphaps its because the world peace saga is the most popular one?

        Loading editor
    • I knew from the moment I read the title to this discussion board that eventually it would come to the damn debate of canon. Why can't everyone just stop with the stupid ass debate of what is canon and what isn't shit? No one with control over what is or isn't canon when it comes to the anime has uttered the words canon and non canon, so therefore all 4 are canon seriously this damn canon debate is a bag of bones. If you all that are saying GT isn't canon want to use the whole fact about the inconsistencies being why then the Peaceful World Saga isn't canon. You all are probably like but wait the Peaceful World Saga happened in the manga so how can it be non canon now, well Goku being weaker in it for one since Uub was beating his ass, is one example another is Videl's hair. Bottom line the only way we are going to get an official canon from the way it looks, is if Disney buys the rights to Dragon Ball.

        Loading editor
    • There is nothing "stupid" here just an good and healthy conversation between DB fans, there is nothing worng to talk about DB GT and Super and analize if they are canon or not.

        Loading editor
    • Goku20 wrote: I knew from the moment I read the title to this discussion board that eventually it would come to the damn debate of canon. Why can't everyone just stop with the stupid ass debate of what is canon and what isn't shit? No one with control over what is or isn't canon when it comes to the anime has uttered the words canon and non canon, so therefore all 4 are canon seriously this damn canon debate is a bag of bones. If you all that are saying GT isn't canon want to use the whole fact about the inconsistencies being why then the Peaceful World Saga isn't canon. You all are probably like but wait the Peaceful World Saga happened in the manga so how can it be non canon now, well Goku being weaker in it for one since Uub was beating his ass, is one example another is Videl's hair. Bottom line the only way we are going to get an official canon from the way it looks, is if Disney buys the rights to Dragon Ball.

      Youreally think Disney will buy DB? Are You an idiot? You white slut the real answer os if the Daizenshuu gives an official canon. Wow, you rwally think Disney will be an international empire do you!

        Loading editor
    • If you're so offended by Super, why don't you change your name to GTBen 5000?

        Loading editor
    • Blaziken rjcf wrote:
      Stryzzar wrote:

      Oh, I've seen plenty of ppl trying to theorise how Super can lead on into GT. The most common choice is the Super Dragon Balls restores all the inconsistencies to fit GT.

      That's what happens when you have Super Dragon Balls capable of fixing any problem.

      Except that the changes in Super aren't problems. Why would they want the dragon to nosedive their lives?

        Loading editor
    • Tesshu wrote: There is nothing "stupid" here just an good and healthy conversation between DB fans, there is nothing worng to talk about DB GT and Super and analize if they are canon or not.

      Seriously you want to say their is nothing stupid about a debate that I have seen enough times to know that it doesn't end well. It eventually gets to the point of name calling which it already has here even though it was edited out. Also the debate is stupid because it is pure speculation if they are canon or not no matter if you all are analyzing them. Everyone has their own headcanon with this series. Also this debate to me is stupid because I have seen and heard it enough that every bit of why GT is non canon is a damn broken record I seriously think that everyone needs to just drop it, because they are beating a bag of bones and hell the Super canon debate is getting there right along with the Super and GT being canon to each other debate. I am all for a friendly, civil, and healthy debate as long as it isn't to the point of being a broken record. This debate though is anything from friendly, civil, and healthy.

        Loading editor
    • NervousShipper wrote: If you're so offended by Super, why don't you change your name to GTBen 5000?

      I'm not. I just really don't like the current arc.

        Loading editor
    • SuperBen 1000000 wrote:

      Goku20 wrote: I knew from the moment I read the title to this discussion board that eventually it would come to the damn debate of canon. Why can't everyone just stop with the stupid ass debate of what is canon and what isn't shit? No one with control over what is or isn't canon when it comes to the anime has uttered the words canon and non canon, so therefore all 4 are canon seriously this damn canon debate is a bag of bones. If you all that are saying GT isn't canon want to use the whole fact about the inconsistencies being why then the Peaceful World Saga isn't canon. You all are probably like but wait the Peaceful World Saga happened in the manga so how can it be non canon now, well Goku being weaker in it for one since Uub was beating his ass, is one example another is Videl's hair. Bottom line the only way we are going to get an official canon from the way it looks, is if Disney buys the rights to Dragon Ball.

      Youreally think Disney will buy DB? Are You an idiot? You white slut the real answer os if the Daizenshuu gives an official canon. Wow, you rwally think Disney will be an international empire do you!

      No I don't think Disney will buy DB and I pray to god they don't I was using them as the possible only way we will ever get an official canon. Wow really SuperBen 1000000 name calling this is exactly why I called the canon debate stupid. I pray to god we get an official canon so all the GT, Super, and Manga fan boys can shut the heck up about what is and isn't canon.

        Loading editor
    • Goku20 wrote:

      SuperBen 1000000 wrote:

      Goku20 wrote: I knew from the moment I read the title to this discussion board that eventually it would come to the damn debate of canon. Why can't everyone just stop with the stupid ass debate of what is canon and what isn't shit? No one with control over what is or isn't canon when it comes to the anime has uttered the words canon and non canon, so therefore all 4 are canon seriously this damn canon debate is a bag of bones. If you all that are saying GT isn't canon want to use the whole fact about the inconsistencies being why then the Peaceful World Saga isn't canon. You all are probably like but wait the Peaceful World Saga happened in the manga so how can it be non canon now, well Goku being weaker in it for one since Uub was beating his ass, is one example another is Videl's hair. Bottom line the only way we are going to get an official canon from the way it looks, is if Disney buys the rights to Dragon Ball.

      Youreally think Disney will buy DB? Are You an idiot? You white slut the real answer os if the Daizenshuu gives an official canon. Wow, you rwally think Disney will be an international empire do you!

      No I don't think Disney will buy DB and I pray to god they don't I was using them as the possible only way we will ever get an official canon. Wow really SuperBen 1000000 name calling this is exactly why I called the canon debate stupid. I pray to god we get an official canon so all the GT, Super, and Manga fan boys can shut the heck up about what is and isn't canon.

      You do realize I am on your side right? All this time, I keep trying to tell others that there is no canon yet the backfire effect on some people shocks me beyond all relief.

        Loading editor
    • NervousShipper wrote:

      Blaziken rjcf wrote:
      Stryzzar wrote:

      Oh, I've seen plenty of ppl trying to theorise how Super can lead on into GT. The most common choice is the Super Dragon Balls restores all the inconsistencies to fit GT.

      That's what happens when you have Super Dragon Balls capable of fixing any problem.

      Except that the changes in Super aren't problems. Why would they want the dragon to nosedive their lives?

      One problem (well more of an inconsistency) I noticed in Super is Gohan's hair it goes from being spiky without a bang to short then back to spiky without a bang to spiky with a bang then back again.

        Loading editor
    • SuperBen 1000000 wrote:

      Goku20 wrote:

      SuperBen 1000000 wrote:

      Goku20 wrote: I knew from the moment I read the title to this discussion board that eventually it would come to the damn debate of canon. Why can't everyone just stop with the stupid ass debate of what is canon and what isn't shit? No one with control over what is or isn't canon when it comes to the anime has uttered the words canon and non canon, so therefore all 4 are canon seriously this damn canon debate is a bag of bones. If you all that are saying GT isn't canon want to use the whole fact about the inconsistencies being why then the Peaceful World Saga isn't canon. You all are probably like but wait the Peaceful World Saga happened in the manga so how can it be non canon now, well Goku being weaker in it for one since Uub was beating his ass, is one example another is Videl's hair. Bottom line the only way we are going to get an official canon from the way it looks, is if Disney buys the rights to Dragon Ball.

      Youreally think Disney will buy DB? Are You an idiot? You white slut the real answer os if the Daizenshuu gives an official canon. Wow, you rwally think Disney will be an international empire do you!

      No I don't think Disney will buy DB and I pray to god they don't I was using them as the possible only way we will ever get an official canon. Wow really SuperBen 1000000 name calling this is exactly why I called the canon debate stupid. I pray to god we get an official canon so all the GT, Super, and Manga fan boys can shut the heck up about what is and isn't canon.

      You do realize I am on your side right? All this time, I keep trying to tell others that there is no canon yet the backfire effect on some people shocks me beyond all relief.

      I do realize that but did you really have to call me a white slut? That is my only issue with your first reply to me, I should have probably worded my reply better.

        Loading editor
    • SuperBen 1000000 wrote:

      You do realize I am on your side right? All this time, I keep trying to tell others that there is no canon yet the backfire effect on some people shocks me beyond all relief.

      Hahaha, that moment when you don't realize the psychological effect you frequently mention applies more to yourself than the people you argue against.

        Loading editor
    • @Superben 100000

      Come on, you didn't have to call him that, it's in very bad taste as well. If you were joking, explain that. You should apologise to Goku, unless they don't want that.

        Loading editor
    • SuperBen, why don't you transform into Ghostfreak and take a sunbath?

        Loading editor
    • Not to be mean, or be bad to Ben, but he has a history of it http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:SuperBen_1000000

        Loading editor
    • Fankid wrote:
      @BH

      They're more common in Perth than Adelaide, but it's pretty easy.

      @0551E80Y

      Are you Australian as well.

      Wait, that's real?

        Loading editor
    • What is?

        Loading editor
    • @everyone

      We should stop saying one is bad due to being non canon or even compare canons, i know i'm probably one of the larger ones who did this, that's why i want to end it, this debate has gone from which is better to which is canon.

        Loading editor