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I am going to make this and settle it once and for all with all the evidence... If you keep denying it after that, then you are *bleep*ing biased retards or trolls LOL

Most will be dedicated to Movie 8 Goku as most agree the rest are much weaker than in the Cell Games..

Now let us begin!!!!

[b][color=orange]Movie Timeline[/color][/b]

"Dragon Ball Z: Burn Up!! A Close, Intense, Super-Fierce Battle" was revealed on March 6, 1993 between episodes 176 to 177 just before Goku was about to start his fight with Cell... That means the movie was revealed before Goku showed his full power SSjin vs Cell and before any of the Cell Games Z senshi made their debut.. If they never made their debut in the series then how can they be in their Cell Games selves when their Cell Games selves never even made their debut???


The Daizenshuu says it takes place in the last shadow before the Cell Games.. Some use it to claim they are Cell Games levels but how when it says the last arc before the Cell Games? Remember movies are alternative universe they don't follow the in universe logic so fitting them according to the events of the Anime like they take part of its universe is wrong

Furthermore, the last shadow before the Cell Games is the Perfect Cell Arc so it supports the movie being in their Perfect Cell Arc selves as it's the arc the movie follows..

[b][color=red]How Movies work[/color][/b]

Movies are alternative universe as said by Akira Toriyama

[quote=Akira Toriyama|message:38768332]What is your personal stance on Dragon Ball’s theatrical films, Sensei? I take the movies as “stories in a different dimension from the main story of the comic”. I’m entirely just an audience member for them.][/quote]

That means movies don't fit in the main timeline as I said before and they are alternative universe so anything related to the series plot should not apply for the movies as it's in a different deimmension

Now, every movie follows some arc in the series.. movie 1 follows the Raditz Arc... Movie 2 follows the Saiyan Arc etc etc... In the Cell Saga, there are 4 movies and 4 main arcs... Movie 6 follows the first arc which is the Androids Arc... It's revealed at that point andis based on it seeing as Vegeta going SSjin and Goku respects it.. Coola being some kind of an android... Vegeta saving Goku from Coola in a similar way as he did vs Android 19 etc... M7 follows the Imperfect Cell Arc as the movie was released at that point and Piccolo is Kamiccolo... He talks to Android 13 like he did to Cell and its way after Androids 18 and 17 defeated Gero....Movie 9 is Cell Games Arc and there is no need to explain...

Now, the only arc left is Perfect Cell Arc... The only movie left is movie 8... M8 follows the Perfect Cell Arc as it's made by that point and revealed before the Cell Games.... We already know the scenes in the movies are based on the scenes of the arc it follows as I showed... Now, Vegeta kicks RSSjin Broli in the neck like he did vs Cell and blasts LSSjin Broli like he did with Cell and both walked through it... Broli's transformation to LSSjin is based on Cell's to his perfect form... Broli's hair is green relates to Cell too imo and both make an annoying noise while they walk... Vegeta and Trunks are ASSjins like in the Perfect Cell Arc... In the CG, they are SSjins in the Manga.. The Anime has them as ASSjin but the movie was revealed before the Cell Games in the Anime.. Gohan and Goku being taken from their initial MSSjin state all proves movie 8 follows the Perfect Cell Arc.. It's a fact...

Now we know movies are alternative universe based on the arc they follow.. Movie 8 is based on the Perfect Cell Arc and ONLY WHAT'S SHOWN in the Perfect Cell Arc and not anything else just like any movie is based on only what's shown in his only arc

Furthermore, you should know Manga has no relation to movies when it comes to date releases... Movies follow the Anime and are made for the Anime fans... Both made by TOEI.. They reveal the movies according to the Anime episodes.... Movie 1 was revealed when Goku used Kaioken X3 vs Vegeta in the Manga but movie 1 is Raditz Arc as the Anime was only at that point... Movie 2 was revealed when Vegeta fought Zarbon in the Manga but movie 2 is based on the Saiyan Arc as it was the only arc the Anime had at that point etc etc

So let's not start with the bullshit of them appearing in the manga as we know that movies follow the Anime and the Anime preceeds them.. Even in the Manga, the movie came when Cell just showed his full power in the Manga meaning the movie was made before Vegeta and Trunks even fought in their Cell Games selves lol... And again, Cell is not mentioned in the movie nor the Cell Games because it never existed in movie 8 universe... There is a reason Trunks's SSjinG 3 form didnt exist in movie 8.. It's alternative universe based on the Perfect Cell Arc... Please read it over until you get it LOL

[b][color=gray]How Strong Are Vegeta and Trunks[/color][/b]

This is not much debatable but I would say it... It's a fact movie 8 Vegeta and Trunks are 1st RoSaT and based on their Perfect Cell Arc selves.... Vegeta's fight vs Broli when he kicks his neck and blasts him is based on his fight vs Cell because they are the same level... They are ASSjins as shown in the design when in the Cell Games they are SSjins


The written words in the design say "Super Vegeta" which is what he calls himself when he fought Cell.. Furthermore, his design his copied from his fight with Cell as he was 1st RoSaT

Compare the Vegeta in the right side to the Vegeta in this panel below


Compare Vegeta from the left of the concept to Vegeta in that panel


Compare Vegeta from the middle of the concept art to Vegeta in the last panel of the Manga



Trunks is the OVA which happened after movie 8 has short hair here meaning he is not his 2nd RoSaT even in the OVA

As for Piccolo.. We know CG Piccolo should be at least as strong as ASSjin Vegeta.. Some put him not that far from Trunks and Vegeta... Movie 8 Vegeta is the second strongest seeing as how his energy made the biggest effect vs Broli... M8 Piccolo is weaker than M8 Vegeta so M8 Piccolo is weaker than his Cell Games.. Movie 8 is Perfect Cell Arc uinverse so Piccolo should be between his Kamiccolo state to his cell games self in movie 8.... Gohan was clearly a weakling and fought in par with Trunks... So we know M8 Z fighters are way weaker as they are based on their Perfect Cell Arc selves...

[b][color=purple]Movie 8 Goku And Gohan[/color][/b]

Movie 8 Gohan design


It's copied from




You can see Gohan was taken from his 10 days state after he initialy existed the RoSaT

There is even one image copied from the RoSaT when they were about to finish their training!!

Now M8 Gohan is also identicl to his resting state...

Movie 8 Gohan


10 days resting Gohan


This is Cell Games Gohan


You can see that both movie 8 Gohan and resting Gohan are identical and Cell Games Gohan is clearly different.. His eyes are not round and he has a huge flare aura...


Movie 9 Gohan is identical to his Cell Games self though because movie 9 is Cell Games...

Now the most complicated part that some don't understand...

We know movie 8 was revealed before the Cell Games in the Anime and before Goku showed his full power vs Cell so he can't be his Cell Games selves... Let's see his design for movie 8


Now let's see where did TOEI copy him from





We can see two images were copied from his initial Post RoSaT selves and from his warming up state.. Remember Goku after existing the RoSaT until the his warm up vs Cell had the same power.. We can call it his natural MSSjin state... Now why did TOEI propousely copied Goku in his natural MSSjin state even when he warmed up vs Cell and not Goku's FPSSjin? Note the two images from the ring is Goku in his natural MSSjin before he powered up so no it's not Cell Games Goku's true power...

Going by that, TOEI not only copied resting natural MSSjin Goku straight from the series but Goku is identical to his natural resting MSSjin in movie 8

Movie 8 Goku


Natural MSSjin Goku in the 10 days for the Cell Games


Furthermore, the trailer and preview for the movie also protrays Goku and Gohan in their resting states



It can be hinted that they show the preview for the episode and the movie in the second link and show Goku in the end like he was when he beat Broli because M8 Goku after absorbing his energy and Broli are just Cell Games FPSSjin tier.. Remember movie villains surpass the strongest in the Anime and the strongest was SSjinG3 Trunks and 50% MSSjin Goku whose power was not known how to be related to the others....




Notice Trunks's statement about Goku's eyes changing.. That's right... FPSSJin has serious eyes and an aura most of the fight... He doesnt have round eyes... You can see Goku after powering up.... However M8 Goku and Gohan are identical to their natural MSSjin when they rested in the 10 days and they also don't have aura most of the fight like FPSSjins have in the Cell Games but in M9 Gohan and the rest are like their Cell Games selves

Where I go with this? Basically TOEI used initial post rosat Goku and Gohan as their max in movie 8 which is why they are identical.. No Goku is not suppressed... Stop being idiots... We already saw how movies are alternative universe meaning they don't fit the series plot which is why in movie 8 Cell Games is not mentioned and Goku and Gohan are in base.... Movie 8 being based on the Perfect Cell Arc and nothing else which only appeared at that point can be treated for movie 8... That's also why movie 8 Goku is weaker than SSjinG 3 Trunks because no one was known to surpass him... Goku showed half of his power to Korin but it was not known how strong half of his power was in comparasion to anyone else... That's also related to the CG and CG doesnt exist in movie 8 time line... Neither SSjinG3 exists.. It's alternative universe... Get over it.. If there would be a movie released after Freeza used 50% vs Goku and before Goku used Kaioken x20, would you know that 50% Freeza is in par with Kaioken x20 Goku or his full power is close to SSjin Goku? No

Let's not use the excuse of Goku being dead in movie 10 and Gohan having SSjin 2 is proof Cell Games existed in movie 8 because TOEI is inconsistent. In Movie 5 Goku never went to Yardat and in movie 6 he knows Shunkan Ido.. TOEI didn't even know they would make another Broli movie lol. Goku cant be that much stronger than Vegeta because he was surprised that Broli who he knew was stronger than himself could tank Vegeta meaning Goku didnt expect him to do it meaning Goku cant tank Vegeta easily... This also is part of the alternative universe that each movie and his arc which makes it impossinble to have someone from a different arc when they should be the same arc

So in short it's really a fact to have M8 Goku equal to his resting state because he is not known to be stronger than SSjinG3 Trunks in the Perfect Cell Arc AKA movie 8 universe...

[b][color=maroon]Movie 8 Broli Power[/color][/b]

Broli can't be in par with Cell.... The highest level shown in the series is 50% MSSjin Goku while Cell's full power was barely in the Manga... Movie villains surpass the strongest level at the anime meaning M8 Broli is > 50% MSSjin Goku... Having Broli in movie 8 being as strong as Perfect Cell is like having Garlic Jr being as strong as Nappa or Slug as strong as 100% Freeza... It's also worth noting that the producer of the movies say new movie villains are stronger than the last ones

[quote=Takao Koyama|message:38768332]In handling the scripts for the films, what I always worried about each time was the problem of what to do about the opponent Goku fights against. That’s because, at the very least, they had to be stronger than {the ones from] the previous movie. After much hard work, I was unable to come up with an opponent stronger than Broli, and fell into a rut where I made him appear three times. That is to say, there’s the matter of questioning the idea of Broli as the strongest. As you are well aware, vehement opinions on the subject have been flying back and forth on this message board, as well as a variety of [other] websites.][/quote]

And no it doesnt mean who only Goku fights... Stop making excuses

Look here

Now if you follow my stance then it makes perfect sense... M8 Goku being his natural MSSjin state was as strong as the Cell who fought Trunks... Trunks was said to surpass Cell and so RSSjin Broli surpasses M8 Goku and tanks Vegeta's kick sligltly better than Cell.. That makes RSSjin Broli as strong as SSjinG3 Trunks

Broli then does a shocking power up that makes everyone scared like when Goku powered up for Korrin... It had the same power up traits as Goku too which makes SSjin Broli in par with 50% MSSjin Goku and when going LSSjin he is in par with Cell Games FPSSjin Goku which is why movie 8 was released just before Goku fought Cell...There is also a guidebook saying Broli is based on SSjinG3 Trunks but a better one implying they intended M8 Broli to be Cell Games FPSSjin tier as it's the stronger form of SSjinG3.. It alll fits by the time line feats designs and such..........


It says LSSjin is based on SSjinG 3 but his speed is ultra and its a stronger form than SSjinG 3... Now, Cell Games FPSSjin Goku is said in this guidebook to be SSjin Grade 4 because it was before official names were given..... Broli being a stronger form of SSSjinG 3 is another evidence he is Cell Games FPSSjin tier